A genuine question

This topic was created in the Astrology forum by guah on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 and has 143 replies.
You are on page out of 3 | Reverse Order
So I used to be absolutely obsessed with astrology. So much so that it was a basis of many of my opinions and even in most thought processes. I'm sure many of you can relate with me in those regards. I stumbled upon a question one day that made me wonder what the hell the point was in astrology... After taking some courses in logic and critical thinking, and some psychology courses... I realized just how subjective and anecdotal any evidence of astrologies effectiveness truly was... And I began to question whether or not it was real or I was just brainwashed by a very general pseudo science. And then it occured to me... What does it matter either way?

Let me preface this explanation of my question by saying I am not trying to antagonize or challenge anyones beliefs in this post. I am simply trying to gain perspective on the matter for myself. Now then, what does knowing your birth chart accomplish? Either one of two possible things will occur when someone who believes in astrology reads their chart... Either they will perceive themselves as what they read, and morph into the description mentally, defeating the purpose of a birth chart since they should have already been that way, or they will gain a detailed explanation of who they are and why they are that way.... So its the power of suggestion and confirmation bias OR it's gaining knowledge on something that was already there. How could you know if a birth chart is accurate if you didn't already know things about yourself to compare the explanation to? So... What did you gain from your time spent studying it? Other than an understanding of things you already understood from a different perspective. What does that different perspective offer?

Perhaps it helps you understand yourself and thus you can make better decisions based off that in the future, but then you aren't really being yourself anymore are you? Or in other words you are either deferring from your own birth chart using your birth chart, so not being yourself, or you are refining yourself. Pretending there are absolutely no dangers of being under the influence of confirmation bias or the power of suggestion, which there definitely are, why couldn't you just do that on your own? And how do you know you eventually wouldn't have? Again, I am just curious what people have to say about these questions of mine, please don't take offense, as I respect your beliefs, I just wonder what the real point of them are.
details
Jeese... that last sentence is terrible, should have proof read lmao. I am not sure how to edit on this site so I'll just explain that I meant I wonder what the real point of the RESULTS of astrology are. The useful products that derive from them.
details

I feel ya.
I feel the same way about religion.
details

Personally .... I use astrology as one of my many basis in making personal judgments about people, how they handle their situations, how/why they respond/react.

details
Here is the thing, a chart functions as weather report for a person's life basically. How volatile or peaceful it is, depends on the chart and transits affecting it currently. Mars returns bring more energy. Saturn returns bring up lose ends and bare fruit for hard labour. This happens even if you don't know your chart. The main thing is how you respond. If you know it will rain in the afternoon, will you stay home, go outside with an umbrella or just get drenched when the rain pours? Astrology points of themes that compel you to take action, reflect, etc. You ultimately choose what you do.
For example, I was into philosophy BEFORE I ever saw my chart. Hell even when I did I didn't pay it much mind. However, when it pointed out themes I'd been dealing with and had dealt with, it made me wonder how it worked. You can live your life without astrology, just as people can live without knowing what the weather will be like. If you know what the weather will be like, you can plan ahead and deal with whatever comes with stride.
details
Posted by GG

"It really restricts your view of the world and the people in it. You become more judgmental and restricted in your thinking and how you approach life."


You can't see the forest for the trees, being more judgmental and aware of the archetypes of personality and their origin, is seeing THE TRUTH. By just ignoring astrology and going by your regular projections (he looks kind, Imma talk to him, he reminds me of my enemy, I wont talk to him), you will end up confused as to why people reacted the way they did. Whereas with astrology you can see the mechanism behind the mind, you know why Scorpios are interested(possess or torture), you know why Taurus are aloof or in a bad mood (just cause), you know why Aries snapped at you (they're 2 year olds who can't control their anger).
You're seeing the truth and wondering whether you should lie to yourself and unlearn it, so that you become confused again. That is absolutely ludicrous, I can't even believe my eyes...
details
As for practical uses for astrology? Hahahaha. /Flexes earth signs.
??Honary Astrology can and has been used to find lost items and people.
??Medical Astrology can be used for various health concerns.
??Mundane Astrology is used for stuff like economics and politics.
???Its rare to find anyone who does those types of astrology though.
??Psychological/Evolutionary Astrology is the most dominant branch that I've seen. Learn your strengths of character and weaknesses. Track times when you'll be more emotional, even focus on harder stuff like repressed traits and truama projected onto others.
??Vedic Astrology is much more fatalistic and hence says more about money, health, career and well-being.
Could go on about how modern science and medicine have connect with astrology during older times or how royalties used during their rule. Or hell point out Warren Buffet and other modern historical figures that were/are pro astrology.
details
Posted by SirHorns
As for practical uses for astrology? Hahahaha. /Flexes earth signs.
??Honary Astrology can and has been used to find lost items and people.
??Medical Astrology can be used for various health concerns.
??Mundane Astrology is used for stuff like economics and politics.
???Its rare to find anyone who does those types of astrology though.
??Psychological/Evolutionary Astrology is the most dominant branch that I've seen. Learn your strengths of character and weaknesses. Track times when you'll be more emotional, even focus on harder stuff like repressed traits and truama projected onto others.
??Vedic Astrology is much more fatalistic and hence says more about money, health, career and well-being.
Could go on about how modern science and medicine have connect with astrology during older times or how royalties used during their rule. Or hell point out Warren Buffet and other modern historical figures that were/are pro astrology.


Lol thank you. That should do it.
details
There's a lot to unpack here and maybe if I have more time. But one of your more confusing comments is: "Perhaps it helps you understand yourself and thus you can make better decisions based off that in the future, but then you aren't really being yourself anymore are you?". Various aspects of "the self", on any understanding really, are dynamic. If I'm genetically inclined to have a certain disposition, it doesn't make me any less of myself, if I make behavioral modifications, or if I change through gaining experience. The self is always growing/changing. So this doesn't really negate anything in Astrology, and this is actually one of its most basic premises (more below). Astrology is not about the fixity of certain aspects/placements.
1. The aspects/placements themselves are inherently dynamic (e.g., see positive/negative attributes of any particular sign, which can be emphasized or not).
2. These aspects/placements can be counter-balanced by others, and volition can play a role in this. As an example, lets suppose my Taurus sun inclines me to extreme loyalty in relationships and I see it as honorable to minimize relationships with the opposite sex when dating someone. But my Gemini Venus is stimulated by a constant rotation of friendships, some of which land me in emotional attachments that feel disloyal. I have a decision to make, lines to draw. And at various different times in life I may lean towards one pole or the other.
3. The proclivities of aspects/placements can be suppressed/expressed. This can also be due to volition, or due to the circumstances of life.
4. But mainly, even supposing that a person had a very fixed nature by some miracle of the stasis of their will through circumstance, Astrology is still fundamentally dynamic in that the aspects/placements of the natal chart are always affected by the planetary transits through time.
Indeed, some placements/aspects, North Node for example are essentially about the direction in which we need to evolve/grow over time in order to find fulfillment, fulfill our purpose, etc. (e.g., North/South Node).
details
Posted by P-Angel

Personally .... I use astrology as one of my many basis in making personal judgments about people, how they handle their situations, how/why they respond/react.




This is a great point, because really the entire argument of the OP is about the perceived value of knowing about your self. One of the greatest benefits of Astrology is better understanding others, in the same way various other personality profiling systems do. I think it engenders compassion in that regard too.
details
Everything we do in life we must do in moderation because there is a balance that needs to be maintained, you can do all the local thinking, critical thinking and psychological analysis u want but thats just one side of a whole, its the masculine side, astrology or anything that is spiritual or somewhat magic is feminine energy and it it pretty much constantly demonised and disproved by the faculties of science; cold, hard, soul crushing, science Winking
Theres nothing wrong with masculine energy only when theres too much emphasis on it in society we get a lot of wars and problems because there isn't any feminine energy, slowly though feminine energy is coming back stronger because astrology gives people insights into themselves that they otherwise would never have known and therefore would not tread down a path of enlightenment.
details
Posted by guah
After taking some courses in logic and critical thinking, and some psychology courses... I realized just how subjective and anecdotal any evidence of astrologies effectiveness truly was... And I began to question whether or not it was real or I was just brainwashed by a very general pseudo science. And then it occured to me... What does it matter either way?
So its the power of suggestion and confirmation bias OR it's gaining knowledge on something that was already there.


Logically though, this is definitely the fallacy of false dichotomy/false dilemma. These are not the only two options. For instance, suppose Astrology is an accurate description of the way the cosmos affects, or is represented within, human personality. Then the knowledge you gained was also about the very nature of the cosmos, not just your own personality. You're also gaining knowledge about the personalities of other people you encounter. Further, there are placements and aspects that are actually prescriptive - they indicate areas that you *ought* to grow in.
details
Posted by stillwat3r
Well, I will sum everything to this little incident:
A coworker and I were discussing our relationships and after some stories from her I asked what is your boyfriend's sign. She replies, "Pisces." I cringe. We continue talking and through our conversation I learn she's a Taurus. She happens to be one of the very few I actually like at my job. Coincidence? Not sure. Let's continue. So, I tell her that I didn't realize she's a Taurus because she came off as a water sign to me, more specifically Pisces. Due to this curiosity I ask her if I can pull up her chart. She agrees. She has never heard of placements beyond the sun sign. She turns out to be a Scorpio Moon and Cancer Ascendant. Coincidence? less likely now.
so there is a bit of truth in astrology and it's more of an art form than a science. it's all energies mixed up in multiple ways depending on upbringing, values, perspectives, etc.


Yep spot on, this happens to me all the time, and most likely to every astro-enthusiast with more than half a brain. YOu have to dig deep and analyse the chart, and you can see the mechanism at work, it's impossible to miss. SOmetimes it felt wrong, like I was way off and it ALWAYS turned out I had the wrong date.
details
Posted by GG
Posted by grayid2
Posted by GG

"It really restricts your view of the world and the people in it. You become more judgmental and restricted in your thinking and how you approach life."


You can't see the forest for the trees, being more judgmental and aware of the archetypes of personality and their origin, is seeing THE TRUTH. By just ignoring astrology and going by your regular projections (he looks kind, Imma talk to him, he reminds me of my enemy, I wont talk to him), you will end up confused as to why people reacted the way they did. Whereas with astrology you can see the mechanism behind the mind, you know why Scorpios are interested(possess or torture), you know why Taurus are aloof or in a bad mood (just cause), you know why Aries snapped at you (they're 2 year olds who can't control their anger).
You're seeing the truth and wondering whether you should lie to yourself and unlearn it, so that you become confused again. That is absolutely ludicrous, I can't even believe my eyes...


A lot of your examples are situational and some of it makes sense, i guess... but at what cost?
Let's be honest with ourselves here folks, astrology is SUPER subjective. At the heart of it, we are studying belief systems here folks, while neglecting our basic mental design and how our perceptions affect our personal reality. I'm sure there's PLENTY of research study that proves this.
Astrology has been around for over 5,000 years, no one is disputing that there isn't any truth in it, even if it is all in our heads.
For better or for worse, what we "expect" influences our behavior...and to a greater extent, the behavior of others...this is where "self fulfilling prophecies" come in.
If you want truth, go back to the basics! First learn exactly how the mind works. That'll give you a good foundation for everything else.
click to expand


Astrology is subjective, but more importantly, you yourself is subjective smile And astrology explains in exactly what way. So your filter to understand the world is itself understood, you know all the mechanisms of it. You know you over-react cause you're a water or fire sign, you know reality is, on average, less dramatic than you perceive it to be. You se
details
You see? Winking
details
Posted by SirHorns
Here is the thing, a chart functions as weather report for a person's life basically. How volatile or peaceful it is, depends on the chart and transits affecting it currently. Mars returns bring more energy. Saturn returns bring up lose ends and bare fruit for hard labour. This happens even if you don't know your chart. The main thing is how you respond. If you know it will rain in the afternoon, will you stay home, go outside with an umbrella or just get drenched when the rain pours? Astrology points of themes that compel you to take action, reflect, etc. You ultimately choose what you do.
For example, I was into philosophy BEFORE I ever saw my chart. Hell even when I did I didn't pay it much mind. However, when it pointed out themes I'd been dealing with and had dealt with, it made me wonder how it worked. You can live your life without astrology, just as people can live without knowing what the weather will be like. If you know what the weather will be like, you can plan ahead and deal with whatever comes with stride.



Well doesn't that mean somewhere in the chart there should be a prediction as to whether or not one will get into astrology? Based off your theory it seems rather life changing to truly get into it. And i'm not sure you can entirely believe in astrology and free will at the same time, they are a bit contradictory. After all, I didn't choose what day I was going to be born, my parents, or ANY circumstances of my birth for that matter. Not trying to disagree with you, just adding constructive feedback to your comment!
details
Posted by P-Angel

Personally .... I use astrology as one of my many basis in making personal judgments about people, how they handle their situations, how/why they respond/react.





This is a very balanced approach. I wish I had that kind of self discipline back when I was still into it, would have saved me a world of confusion and foolishness Tongue.
So what you are mostly implying is that you don't try to USE astrology, it's more something you use to understand the world around you, in a theoretical sort of way?
details
Posted by GG
Great post! Unfortunately, there's no way to edit after you've sent something. Don't even worry about your mistakes, just let em hang lol.
This is something I struggle with... I often ask myself "how much of this is true and how much of it are my projections?"
I got into astrology because people are so interesting to me. Ever since I can remember, I've always been fascinated by people and why they do the things they do.
The Sagittarius woman that got me into astrology tried to discourage me, now I see why, but it was too late, i had already entered the matrix.
The fact that you're here asking this question tells me you are a little bit curious about astrology. I've been into this for a years... here's my advice to you, don't get into it.
It really restricts your view of the world and the people in it. You become more judgmental and restricted in your thinking and how you approach life. And don't get me started on the self fulfilling prophecies.



alas, I feel your pain good sir. I too have found myself to be engulfed by it. I still to this day sometimes think in terms of astrology without even REALIZING it. In fact, I have a perfect example; yesterday I was watching hot rod, and I automatically thought about how if rod were real, he'd be a pisces. Crazy imagination, dreams big, emotional, slightly deceptive, but in an innocent way... Then I snapped out of it and was like whoa... that's fucking scary.. I've decided to reject the belief on the basis of it being in my eyes some what a waste of energy, a deterrent of my natural thought processes, and scientifically not sound enough to accept as a belief system, yet here I am thinking about it... Boggles my mind.
details
Posted by grayid2
Posted by GG

"It really restricts your view of the world and the people in it. You become more judgmental and restricted in your thinking and how you approach life."


You can't see the forest for the trees, being more judgmental and aware of the archetypes of personality and their origin, is seeing THE TRUTH. By just ignoring astrology and going by your regular projections (he looks kind, Imma talk to him, he reminds me of my enemy, I wont talk to him), you will end up confused as to why people reacted the way they did. Whereas with astrology you can see the mechanism behind the mind, you know why Scorpios are interested(possess or torture), you know why Taurus are aloof or in a bad mood (just cause), you know why Aries snapped at you (they're 2 year olds who can't control their anger).
You're seeing the truth and wondering whether you should lie to yourself and unlearn it, so that you become confused again. That is absolutely ludicrous, I can't even believe my eyes...
click to expand


Now now now... Lets keep this discussion objective. You actually have no objective grounds to call astrology the truth my friend. Let me preface this by saying I am not trying to CHALLENGE your beliefs, but only trying to point out that at the end of the day, they can only be a beliefs. Unless of course you'd like to stray away from the dictionary definition of the words truth and belief, in which case there is no real reasoning at all anymore Tongue. The only real thing you accomplish by labeling beliefs as truths is self protection. It would truly be a shame if all of it was a waste of energy... So I understand your defensiveness. But understand people objecting your beliefs should in no way threaten them, and if they do, you need to ask yourself why you aren't confident enough in your beliefs to talk about the holes in them openly. At the end of the day, I can't DISPROVE the concept of astrology, but I can make very strong cases against it, like anyone could. I'm asking the people of this forum to make some cases FOR it, or explain what it gives back in return for the belief!
Heres an example: I will take the very same argument structure you just made and flip it around. "You are being deceived and wondering whether you should keep lying to yourself and keep believing it, so you do
details
Ahh yes, the power of suggestion, dwellingonmove. A very powerful argument, one that scared me into changing the way I looked at astrology forever.

details
I mean it's so powerful that scientists, very EXPERIENCED scientists, have developed tests just to MAKE SURE it can't influence them. We're talking about the most objective, analytical and neutral approach to any issue, science, and the people who dedicate their LIVES to that discipline... They are vulnerable to it! I for one know I am not nearly as qualified as those men, at least yet. And I know that means I'm probably more susceptible to it than I'd like.
details
Posted by TaurusLovesScorpio
There's a lot to unpack here and maybe if I have more time. But one of your more confusing comments is: "Perhaps it helps you understand yourself and thus you can make better decisions based off that in the future, but then you aren't really being yourself anymore are you?". Various aspects of "the self", on any understanding really, are dynamic. If I'm genetically inclined to have a certain disposition, it doesn't make me any less of myself, if I make behavioral modifications, or if I change through gaining experience. The self is always growing/changing. So this doesn't really negate anything in Astrology, and this is actually one of its most basic premises (more below). Astrology is not about the fixity of certain aspects/placements.
1. The aspects/placements themselves are inherently dynamic (e.g., see positive/negative attributes of any particular sign, which can be emphasized or not).
2. These aspects/placements can be counter-balanced by others, and volition can play a role in this. As an example, lets suppose my Taurus sun inclines me to extreme loyalty in relationships and I see it as honorable to minimize relationships with the opposite sex when dating someone. But my Gemini Venus is stimulated by a constant rotation of friendships, some of which land me in emotional attachments that feel disloyal. I have a decision to make, lines to draw. And at various different times in life I may lean towards one pole or the other.
3. The proclivities of aspects/placements can be suppressed/expressed. This can also be due to volition, or due to the circumstances of life.
4. But mainly, even supposing that a person had a very fixed nature by some miracle of the stasis of their will through circumstance, Astrology is still fundamentally dynamic in that the aspects/placements of the natal chart are always affected by the planetary transits through time.
Indeed, some placements/aspects, North Node for example are essentially about the direction in which we need to evolve/grow over time in order to find fulfillment, fulfill our purpose, etc. (e.g., North/South Node).



Yes! Now I'm learning new things! This is why I posted here, by in large. I like to use debate as a method of contemplation. Either at the end of this I will have either gained new perspective or strengthened the grounds of my own. Now, lets throw the sel
details
Posted by DwellingOnMove
On pracitcal use of Astrology:
I was working four years with a Pisces and a Gemini man in the same small group. I don't know their Charts. And I know men likes to challenge women. Yet I think the way we misunderstood each other could come from our squares and Opposition. (Or I am a victim of Astrology and it was something you see only in small Teams).
So. I checked CA every day for bad aspects, Moon in my MC, or in Scorp, for Uranus Placements. And managed the turbulent days I had at that workplace. I needed that help because I was very weakened when I started there. tNeptune square my Sun did me a lot wrong in the years before that period.



Interesting! But how do you know you wouldn't have came to similar conclusions about ways you could manage the team without astrology? Could possibly, some of these traits found in the charts and forecasts have been blaringly obvious if your attention was more tuned to the observations of them, in the moment acting naturally as they are?
details
Indeed we are. It's true that if you believe something it becomes true to you. So true, we use it for experiments. Placebo effect! And so true, we use certain types of experiments to rid the experimenters themselves from seeing results that aren't there! It's a very powerful aspect of the human mind.
details
Posted by DwellingOnMove
Posted by guah
I mean it's so powerful that scientists, very EXPERIENCED scientists, have developed tests just to MAKE SURE it can't influence them. We're talking about the most objective, analytical and neutral approach to any issue, science, and the people who dedicate their LIVES to that discipline... They are vulnerable to it! I for one know I am not nearly as qualified as those men, at least yet. And I know that means I'm probably more susceptible to it than I'd like.

Recently I saw a gif (I cannot find it now) with the content: I know I didn't get a tight life. Sorry not sorry. Loose life is fun.
I got attracted to Astrology, I know it is dangerous, but it is fun, I'm trying to check if it can be right or helpful. Yet nothing good for Astrology.
click to expand


And there is a strong argument perhaps even stronger than mine, why SHOULDN'T someone get into astrology? I mean if it becomes true to you its true to you... and ultimately if you enjoy it, why the hell not? No one has a guide to the best way to live life, so I don't see anything wrong with doing what makes you happy! Personally, it scares me a little too much. I think thats because I've chosen to take my life in a direction that ultimately has changed the way I think, majoring in ethical philosophy and all... Studying logic and critical thinking. Studying psychology as well... Thus it doesn't make me happy anymore, because it conflicts with what I spend a ton of time learning about, and conflicts with the frame of mind I'm learning to maintain. Which is why I would never call someone stupid for believing in astrology. It's certainly not stupid on any grounds to do something that makes you happy in this conundrum we call life.
details
Posted by guah
Posted by DwellingOnMove
On pracitcal use of Astrology:
I was working four years with a Pisces and a Gemini ...
So. I checked CA every day for bad aspects, Moon in my MC, or in Scorp, for Uranus Placements. And managed the turbulent days I had at that workplace...

... wouldn't have came to similar conclusions about ways you could manage the team without astrology? Could possibly, some of these traits found in the charts and forecasts have been blaringly obvious if your attention was more tuned to the observations of them, in the moment acting naturally as they are?
click to expand

yes, you're right.
1. By expecting I was more focused than without forecasts.
2. It was a little tiring to track the transits.
3. Ah, I forgot to say that I evaluated the forecasts every day (2013-2014). Cafeastrology daily forecasts for all Sagitarians was more often wrong than astro.com personal forecast.
details
Posted by guah
Posted by grayid2
Posted by GG

"It really restricts your view of the world and the people in it. You become more judgmental and restricted in your thinking and how you approach life."


You can't see the forest for the trees, being more judgmental and aware of the archetypes of personality and their origin, is seeing THE TRUTH. By just ignoring astrology and going by your regular projections (he looks kind, Imma talk to him, he reminds me of my enemy, I wont talk to him), you will end up confused as to why people reacted the way they did. Whereas with astrology you can see the mechanism behind the mind, you know why Scorpios are interested(possess or torture), you know why Taurus are aloof or in a bad mood (just cause), you know why Aries snapped at you (they're 2 year olds who can't control their anger).
You're seeing the truth and wondering whether you should lie to yourself and unlearn it, so that you become confused again. That is absolutely ludicrous, I can't even believe my eyes...


Now now now... Lets keep this discussion objective. You actually have no objective grounds to call astrology the truth my friend. Let me preface this by saying I am not trying to CHALLENGE your beliefs, but only trying to point out that at the end of the day, they can only be a beliefs. Unless of course you'd like to stray away from the dictionary definition of the words truth and belief, in which case there is no real reasoning at all anymore Tongue. The only real thing you accomplish by labeling beliefs as truths is self protection. It would truly be a shame if all of it was a waste of energy... So I understand your defensiveness. But understand people objecting your beliefs should in no way threaten them, and if they do, you need to ask yourself why you aren't confident enough in your beliefs to talk about the holes in them openly. At the end of the day, I can't DISPROVE the concept of astrology, but I can make very strong cases against it, like anyone could. I'm asking the people of this forum to make some cases FOR it, or explain what it gives back in return for the belief!
Heres an example: I will take the very same argument structure you just made and flip it around. "You are being dece
click to expand
details
Posted by The_eleventh_sign_11
Everything we do in life we must do in moderation because there is a balance that needs to be maintained, you can do all the local thinking, critical thinking and psychological analysis u want but thats just one side of a whole, its the masculine side, astrology or anything that is spiritual or somewhat magic is feminine energy and it it pretty much constantly demonised and disproved by the faculties of science; cold, hard, soul crushing, science Winking
Theres nothing wrong with masculine energy only when theres too much emphasis on it in society we get a lot of wars and problems because there isn't any feminine energy, slowly though feminine energy is coming back stronger because astrology gives people insights into themselves that they otherwise would never have known and therefore would not tread down a path of enlightenment.



Interesting Tongue. I can't disagree with the moderation thing. Moderation makes or breaks you man! But I will say that my birth chart is mostly feminine energy, so thats interesting you'd say I'm adhering to masculine principles.
details
"You are being deceived and wondering whether you should keep lying to yourself and keep believing it, so you do"
That is a non sequitur. It has nothing to do with anything. Astrology is "visible", it's easily verified. You're too young and /or dumb to see it. That's all it is. You're willing to talk for days about it, but not to actually study it, you have a feeble, weak mind...
details
Posted by guah
Ahh yes, the power of suggestion, dwellingonmove. A very powerful argument, one that scared me into changing the way I looked at astrology forever.




That is ridiculous, again, it's the ramblings of a mad man, guessing people's signs accurately every time is not "power of suggestion". Wake the eff up.....!!!
details
Posted by partiallyimpartial
truth be told, you can try and use astrology as a way to help you understand the world around you.
but do some research and realize that based on its definition as a pseudo science, its is definitively
NOT an effective or accurate way to do so. if astrology could truly help you understand the world better... it would be called science. that's the whole difference lololol science is the most accurate way we know to learn about the nature of reality BECAUSE it works. pseudo sciences do not



Who the eff cares what the idiots in charge call it? I didnt know you were THAT stupid...wow. I knew you were stupid.
details
Posted by TaurusLovesScorpio
Posted by guah
After taking some courses in logic and critical thinking, and some psychology courses... I realized just how subjective and anecdotal any evidence of astrologies effectiveness truly was... And I began to question whether or not it was real or I was just brainwashed by a very general pseudo science. And then it occured to me... What does it matter either way?
So its the power of suggestion and confirmation bias OR it's gaining knowledge on something that was already there.


Logically though, this is definitely the fallacy of false dichotomy/false dilemma. These are not the only two options. For instance, suppose Astrology is an accurate description of the way the cosmos affects, or is represented within, human personality. Then the knowledge you gained was also about the very nature of the cosmos, not just your own personality. You're also gaining knowledge about the personalities of other people you encounter. Further, there are placements and aspects that are actually prescriptive - they indicate areas that you *ought* to grow in.
click to expand


I guess I should have been more specific, that should have referred to someone reading THEIR own birth chart. I was speaking by example. But I like your angle. So I must ask, what knowledge of the cosmos would that give you? Our personalities being affected by the cosmos would be knowledge yes, but only if it were scientifically proven, otherwise it wouldn't even be a theory, just a belief of the cosmos. Hypothetically if it WERE proven true, then yes that would be a benefit of it. So you've answered that question, which I appreciate! very interesting perspective.
details
"Let me preface this by saying I am not trying to CHALLENGE your beliefs"
...oh how very nice of you. As a complete ignorant incapable of any kind of rational reasoning, you inform me that you're not going to CHALLENGE my beliefs. That's like a cow telling me they won't try karate on me.
details
ImpartialIdiot, do you understand what I said? Clearly you didn't a simple sentence, you don't get it. YOu're blinded by the pain of reality for once.
details
Posted by grayid2
Posted by guah
Ahh yes, the power of suggestion, dwellingonmove. A very powerful argument, one that scared me into changing the way I looked at astrology forever.




That is ridiculous, again, it's the ramblings of a mad man, guessing people's signs accurately every time is not "power of suggestion". Wake the eff up.....!!!
click to expand


Wow! You can do that? Man... what are you doing here?! Go show the world! If you really could replicate this in an experiment you would be the first man to ever do so... sounds like some dough in your pocket my friend! And you could help prove there are more to your beliefs than people thought! Of course thats.... IF... you could do it... EVERY time.. like you said. A rather big IF. Once again, not being objective. Ironically you are reacting in a way that highlights the prevalent confirmation bias that influences you.
details
Posted by grayid2
Posted by guah
Ahh yes, the power of suggestion, dwellingonmove. A very powerful argument, one that scared me into changing the way I looked at astrology forever.




That is ridiculous, again, it's the ramblings of a mad man, guessing people's signs accurately every time is not "power of suggestion". Wake the eff up.....!!!
click to expand


Yes I'm mad! Absolutely insane. You should just leave my poor soul be, move on to a different thread... spare me the ridicule please!
details
Yes of course!!! Amy SHumer I guessed Libra and Gemini, and that's it. I didn't see anything else. I check her chart : 2x Libra and 3x Gemini.
Josh Brolin, I said Taurus, Leo and Aquarius, I check his chart, he has all 3 in SUn moon and rising. And just every person I see and either interact with or study in film.
Tell me where I can make money off of this!! I'm all ears!
details
Posted by grayid2
? Clearly you didn't a simple sentence, you don't get it.
^^^LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing the irony is crazy! This guy hassss to be trolling.
details
Impartialidiot, it's getting old, stick to the subject. Face it or shut up.
details
Posted by grayid2
Yes of course!!! Amy SHumer I guessed Libra and Gemini, and that's it. I didn't see anything else. I check her chart : 2x Libra and 3x Gemini.
Josh Brolin, I said Taurus, Leo and Aquarius, I check his chart, he has all 3 in SUn moon and rising. And just every person I see and either interact with or study in film.
Tell me where I can make money off of this!! I'm all ears!



Well, something as crazy accurate as 100% ... that would be incredible. Start guessing peoples signs, do what you do! If you are 100% accurate, trust me... people will take notice! In fact, theres really not much time to waste. You really ought to go asap! Like now!! Hurry!!
details
Not facing the subject yet running his mouth and talkins sheeit...
details
Man.. This thread is getting totally sailed off course. Lets end the debate now! Guess my sign grayid2.
details
Guah I do it all the time. But who am I going to tell? Tell me, I'd love to know how to make money off it!
Imp : the subject is the last thing that I said before you went crazy, like 3 comments ago.
details
Based on your photo and a debate about the veracity of astrology? You really think that's enough?
details
Posted by DwellingOnMove
"in this conundrum we call life."
1. yes, life is a catastrophe. It makes me put more energy into Astrology and I know it could be all wrong.

2. Look I have Saturn in Aqua. It makes me a scientist-wannabe. What else can explain that I do research and collect tables of info on Astrology? Most of other People go other ways. I asked even my religious missionary colleague (with good knowledge on statistics) to help me calcualte the value a particular "probability" needs to say the issue is fact.

3. We have a thread on this site with an article about old people who still work. I checked their charts and about 90% of them have Capricorn in prominent places. (I know too many places make it difficult to be reliable)
4. In a train I met a man who'd learned a difficult language within two years. He spoke very well. I asked him if he was born in November or December? Yes, he was Scorpio with Mercur in Sagittarus.
5. I look at interviews and pictures of famous people and try to say which signs they may have. If I keep being successful with this, and if the hits are more than the natural probability of occurances, I can say I have the proof. I know it may turn out to be very stupid but I have to do it. Something makes me continue. But I'm every hour ready to quit forever.
6. yes, life is a catastrophe. how do you feel when people talks "receiving signs from universe"? Like in the movie "16 Blocks"? Does universe (or God to others) send signs?
7. we are living in an ambigious world with lots of ambigious values. It works even.


Ooooh I wouldn't call life a catastrophe. It is pretty amazing! But it is definitely a conundrum. I mean it confuses the shit out of everyone to this day! But I will say like I said earlier, if you practice astrology because you are intrigued and it makes you happy, that is perfectly just! I actually respect that you are aware of the risks and keep believing. That is what life is about man... follow your heart.
details
You think life is amazing because you're super young, you're like a baby...just wait until things get serious.
details
Posted by grayid2
Based on your photo and a debate about the veracity of astrology? You really think that's enough?



Ask me questions and I will answer honestly. You have my word. I will give you any info you need to make a guess.
details
I need to see you talk and think and be in a situation, basically. That's how subtle astrology is. Plus who's to say you won't lie about your date of birth?
details
Posted by grayid2
You think life is amazing because you're super young, you're like a baby...just wait until things get serious.


Yes I have much to learn. Perhaps you're right. Can't speak for the future. But the way I see it, I'm pretty lucky to be a living conscious being. Statistically I'm certain it was far more likely for me to end up as something else, or in a country much less privileged than mine. I mean the fact that we're all here on the internet would point to some pretty good luck. So I can't call it a catastrophe. At least not mine, and I prefer not to speak for others. On a grander scale, life is a really interesting thing, not really definable by good or bad. Just mysterious.
details
Posted by grayid2
I need to see you talk and think and be in a situation, basically. That's how subtle astrology is. Plus who's to say you won't lie about your date of birth?



So you want me to just believe that you can guess signs 100% of the time but you won't even give me the benefit of the doubt about what birth day I give you? Sheesh....
details
First
Previous
Next
Last

Leave Your Feedback

We'd love to hear your thoughts! If you're not logged in, you can still share your feedback below. Your input helps us improve the experience for everyone. To post your own content or join the conversation, please log in or create an account.

Home Astrology Comments Forums Search

©1997-2025 dxpnet.com. All Rights Reserved.
Advertising Contact Terms of Use Privacy Policy