soooo how accurate is astrology? (Page 2)

I think the *common* use of astrology is another example of the idle minds of man. We would much rather be given answers, than to seek them out for ourselves. Few people think independantly. We would rather be told "this is what it is, and this is how it works", than to challenge and explore it for ourselves. Rather than approach Boyfriend X about his odd behaviors, we instead impatiently turn to the stars for an explanation. It makes life easier.

It is human nature to desire a purpose in life- to find an identity. Many of us spend our entire lives searching for our niche. To *belong* somewhere.

This ^ is why we create things like religion, race, fellowships, and astrology- they provide us with an identity and function! A home, so to speak, to help us distinguish b/w our selves and "other". There is nothing really wrong with that, I guess.

The issue arises when the presumptions formed through aforementioned scopes create unwarranted prejudices, which they often do.

*nods*

I think the *common* use of astrology is another example of the idle minds of man. We would much rather be given answers, than to seek them out for ourselves. Few people think independantly. We would rather be told "this is what it is, and this is how it works", than to challenge and explore it for ourselves. Rather than approach Boyfriend X about his odd behaviors, we instead impatiently turn to the stars for an explanation. It makes life easier.

It is human nature to desire a purpose in life- to find an identity. Many of us spend our entire lives searching for our niche. To *belong* somewhere
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Well said. Couldn't have said it better myself

""There are many absolute truths. 2+2=4 for instance, is an absolute truth.""


Well, I'm not going to pretend to be a mathematician. I gladly declined to go beyond Calc I, lol.

But, I am confident that the statement 2 + 2 = 4 can be falsified in a number cases. First, it would depend on the type of entities to which you are referring in your example. What kind of mass have you combined? It will change form. Math (like any field of study) can get as complex as you are willing to delve. Off hand, I am vaguely recalling the concepts of real vs imaginary numbers, complex numbers, irrational numbers, infinity...endless algorithms.

Take another example. Let's say someone held up a piece of paper in front of the both of us, that had a color on it. We look at the same sheet of paper, and both report that we are seeing the color "red". However, if we had a closer look, we might find that you and I do not see the same "red". Because our retinas are shaped differently, as well as our rods/cones, photoreceptors...and we ultimately are visualizing separate reflections of the same wavelength.

Because we have varying outputs, there is no one color "red".

*wavelegnth of light

But then, I suppose by saying there are no absolute truths, I am in fact stating an absolute truth? LOL


All I was trying to say was that everything is debatable. ::shrugs::

Even when all is said and done, there are still proven set universal laws and patterns. The earth's rotation, the planets orbit around the sun. The yearly migration of birds, the different phases of the moon. Just to name a few.. and as humans are a part of this whole universe, i think it's safe to assume not everything is imagined perception, even if not fully understood on every imaginable level. Sometimes it doesn't have to be. It's still as real as the air i breathe.

((Astrology is just 1 of a million subjects that can be debated all day, but in the end, everyone's opinion will STILL differ. When Jesus rose from the dead (and was their PROOF that he really was the sun of man) some people STILL didn't believe & hey, it was like that millions of years ago, and I'm not suprised things are still the same way today))

Opinions will always differ as long as no one cares about truth. Science has its methods to find truth to a great extend. But its hard to use the same rules to study astrology from outside to inside without know what happens inside.

If Jesus did existed in a human form, in which form did his daddy existed? Are there any proofs to it? No. Just a story book written by some hallucinated people who didn't even know earth was round in shape and its space and emptiness above the clouds. And why do you allow yourself to believe such things when you have no direct encounter or other observed phenomenas of people rising from dead? And if he was actually Gods son, then why is that God failed to realize that this son's teaching will later be the reason for mass murders and burning intellectuals at stake? If he was God, he should have been knowing all these right? Because a group of people including your parents teach you religion, that doesn't reduce your responsibility towards yourself to search for the truth. They might be bullshttin you. How can you ever know unless you begin to cross examine and experiment?

""there are still proven set universal laws and patterns. The earth's rotation, the planets orbit around the sun. The yearly migration of birds, the different phases of the moon. Just to name a few.. ""

the thing is, they aren't proven. that is what a law is. it's what makes it a theory. a theory MUST BE falsifiable, or else it isn't classified as such. it is tested, over and over...studied...supported and/or weakened. credible authorities, in any field of study, NEVER say they have "proven" something.

""i think it's safe to assume not everything is imagined perception, even if not fully understood on every imaginable level. Sometimes it doesn't have to be. It's still as real as the air i breathe.""

ok. i'm clearly doing a poor job at explaining my thought process.

i thought i more or less just said that i do believe in complex phenomena. i'm saying WE as humans cannot define what is real. i'm saying that what is real to us IS perception. groups of us may arrive at a consensus, but it is still a subjective perception...and will always be met with a valid, alternative reasoning. i never said perception was "imagined". it is real to the extent of the capacity of our senses. i am agreeing that these phenomena go beyond our senses.

does anyone understand the points i'm trying to convey here? please help. 😢

your point is so simple that i don't see how anyone could have difficulty understanding it. reality is subjective.

we both see different colors when we look at the same thing.

that's why i said earlier that the only person who can answer this question for the poster is themselves.

What it all boils down to...


Some of you are arguing that there are phenomena that exist that reach beyond human understanding. In the same token, you are suggesting that humans have made sense of it.

I am acknowledging that there are phenomena that exist which expand beyond human understanding. I am suggesting that humans cannot make sense of it, due to this limited understanding.

oops...wrong point. hehe.

::exhales::

thanks, poo


for a second, i thought i was going loco. i mean, i realize i'm not the most articulate person in the world....

no, you're right. that is the reasoning behind my point.

goddamn


my posts look like VE's combined w/ krysrenee's.


lol

you were quite articulate. you expressed yourself well. i was pretty impressed to be honest. you said everything that i was too lazy to write. hence my one liner. hehe.

discussions about this topic - "reality" - always make me feel so lost. 🙂
i wish that i could be someone else for a little while, and then come back to myself and compare & contrast.

hahaha, your posts were intelligent and insightful, notso; the length is warranted.

((cosmodynes)) Whats that? I saw measurements when i googled. But its impossible to measure things based on current perspective of astrology because constellations are far far away than its meant to be. Calculating Sun looks rational since it begins with Equinox. But what about Ascendant? Its once again shifted. means its not constellations but something else. Mostly only planets. But our lousy astrologers prefer to remain with the old school mechanisms and find more and more methods which will make them richer and richer.

((However, when you begin to presume traits such as levels of intelligence, temperament, and resourcefulness, based *solely* on a month, date, or time of birth...then I will say you are being irrational.))

If you do it in that order, then its all wrong. You will have to study it from backwards. Without having a clear idea as to what is intelligence, we simply cannot attribute intelligence to a planet or zodiac.

"the thing is, they aren't proven. that is what a law is. it's what makes it a theory. a theory MUST BE falsifiable, or else it isn't classified as such. it is tested, over and over...studied...supported and/or weakened. credible authorities, in any field of study, NEVER say they have "proven" something."

"i'm saying WE as humans cannot define what is real."

i appreciate that, but does it really matter when i actually LOOK up in the sky, and see the changing phases of the moon with my own eyes. A flock of geese going the same way, the same time of year, for 1000's of years. I know the Sun shines everyday, and rotates around the earth..i only have to open my door or window to see this. That air i breathe is invisible, colorless, tasteless, but i know i would die just the same without it, so it's very real to me. It's just verbal neumatics confusing already known knowns.. Some things have not been scientifically proven yet, of course.. *but at least for the one's i've stated i can assume these are real. Just because scientists can't perfectly put something in a constricted box of "Human Theory" ..doesn't mean something doesn't exist. A scientific nod does not neccessarily mean credibility or lack of existence.

""Just because scientists can't perfectly put something in a constricted box of "Human Theory" ..doesn't mean something doesn't exist. A scientific nod does not neccessarily mean credibility or lack of existence.""


that's not what i'm saying at all, mystic. nvm

::tries to think up better examples::

as human beings we don't have the capacity to say indefinitely what is real.

not scientists, not morons, not geniuses, and not astrologists. no one.

we can reach a consensus and this is what is accepted as being true/real. we can see a desk and it is real to us. but for someone who has never seen that desk, it is non-existent and therefore not real.

""i wish that i could be someone else for a little while, and then come back to myself and compare & contrast.""


ooh, that would be awesome!


speaking of which.....in your opinion, how prevalent is empathy? as a character trait....

sympathy would be to imagine *yourself* in another person's shoes.

to be empathetic, you would imagine being *that person* in his or her shoes. seems difficult for several reasons.

""not scientists, not morons, not geniuses, and not astrologists. no one.

we can reach a consensus and this is what is accepted as being true/real. we can see a desk and it is real to us. but for someone who has never seen that desk, it is non-existent and therefore not real.""


thank you! plain and simple.

this can also be applied to theories and beliefs, not just objects.

If i can (see) the moon in the sky, the moon is there isn't it? Therefore it exists. But yes, i know, lol.. it is kind of hard to explain on both sides.. =)

((I am acknowledging that there are phenomena that exist which expand beyond human understanding. I am suggesting that humans cannot make sense of it, due to this limited understanding.))

Humans so far haven't made much of progress in making sense of it because our brains are clouded with so much of useless information. But its possible for us to make sense of it but not to everyone around. If i try to explain or demonstrate something to another libra, its easy. But if i have to explain something to an Aqua or gemini, they also must carry enough information about the complexities of their own brain to comprehend what am trying to say. So most times they receive information using an unprepared brain with lots of unwanted informations which will make things look spooky. If i try to explain the same to a scorpio, they understand everything except the logic from my statements. Its the way we are. The only way we can override this system is to learn ourselves inside out and find ways to use our brains to comprehend things as it is outside each persons thought realm.

So even if you try harder, you will find it hard to explain your idea to a fire or air sign esp when its through a forum. We will be decoding it in our own ways and most of what you have said will be something we have already thought about. But if we try to explain it back to a water or earth sign, they simply cannot get it because of their loose grip on logic and abstract thinking.

no, i understand what you're saying.

however, astrology is somewhat like a belief in a higher power to me. for some people, that is very real even though there is no physical evidence. this is what classifies it as a belief. for some people, almost everything that occurs in life - living itself - is proof that some kind of god (however one defines it) must exist. but it is certainly not irrefutable, no matter how strong that person believes it to be true.

((we can reach a consensus and this is what is accepted as being true/real. we can see a desk and it is real to us. but for someone who has never seen that desk, it is non-existent and therefore not real.))

So how can we make someone see a desk when they dont want to? All they do will be to keep saying "i cannot see anything here. so there is no desk". And If they try to see it alone without any proper guidance, they might think a chair is what we meant by a desk.

"If i can (see) the moon in the sky, the moon is there isn't it?"

it is there for you. someone who has never seen it would say that it isn't real and that it doesn't exist, and that is their truth - their reality.

by the same token, thelibran, the "proper" guidance can serve to bias as well.

""...you will find it hard to explain your idea to a fire or air sign esp when its through a forum. We will be decoding it in our own ways and most of what you have said will be something we have already thought about. But if we try to explain it back to a water or earth sign, they simply cannot get it because of their loose grip on logic and abstract thinking.""

i....


i feel like the joke must be on me. b/c there's just no way...

notso - i think that true empathy exists but is very rare.

notso...i think he's really serious w/that.

((by the same token, thelibran, the "proper" guidance can serve to bias as well.))

Exactly. But what choices do we have than making mistakes and correcting it? And whom can we guide? probably only same zodiacs.

now i'm having an existential meltdown, all because someone asked if astrology is accurate!!! hahahaha

this discussion concerns the authenticity of the concept & application of astrology.

...and all he basically did, in all of that writing, was say, "it's true because it is."

thelibran, i have to respectfully disagree.

am i saying there is definitely no merit in your thinking, no...not at all. just that i am going to need a lot (and i mean mountains upon mountains) more proof before i begin to accept such a thing. it contradicts everything my experiences have taught me.

you know, notso, now that i think about it, i don't think there is such a thing as *true* empathy. that would essentially require us to *be* another person. whereas sympathy is relating through having experienced the same things, empathy is simply imagining yourself in another person's position. but in the end it is still yourself, and not them. because yourself is all you can really be.

but the watered-down, let me "be" someone else for a little, is what i think we can rarely achieve.

to put it more succintly in a way you'll appreciate:
we can only really see our color. 🙂

haha

i like that. that'll be my new saying. 🙂

fwiw, i would say that the conversation between notso and i is evidence enough to disprove thelibran's theory.

seeing that i am almost completely fire and air, and she is mostly water.

((just that i am going to need a lot (and i mean mountains upon mountains) more proof before i begin to accept such a thing. it contradicts everything my experiences have taught me.))

I was saying that even after you get all those proofs, you will only become a believer. What if i did fabricated those proofs and manipulated you into buying my theory because i was desperate for some attention? Such things have happened all throughout history. So the only option we all have is to force ourselves to travel in each others shoes and theories and see where it leads us. And then go back and discuss about it and sit together and revise the possibilities of mistakes whoever has made and travel again with the new parameters.

^ that's something i won't dispute.

i tend to agree. i think actors come the closest to achieving empathy.

they have to literally know what it is like to have come from the socio-economic background of the character. they must transport themselves into an entirely different time period, climate, family...

they have to speak, breathe, walk, and blink like the individual...

that's why i believe they deserve alot of credit. they are researchers, and have to demonstrate mental and emotional intelligence to be successful at what they do.

"it is there for you. someone who has never seen it would say that it isn't real and that it doesn't exist, and that is their truth - their reality"

i think 99% of the common population would say the moon exists.. The rest is splitting hairs..lol

okay, me too, ahhhh, the bane of debate...lol! .. 😉

lol...~mystic_fish, but where would we all be without it? 😛

the actor thing...that's something i've considered before. they really have to embody this character. and along those lines, i think that people who have that same type of "acting intelligence" but aren't professional actors are the people who come closest to empathizing.