Are we givers or takers in relationships?

This topic was created in the Capricorn forum by lnana04 on Monday, August 22, 2011 and has 24 replies.
I'm sitting here thinking about my taurus friend(yes, him again), as I'm trying to get him out of my system, so I write a list the bad things he's done that hurt me(came up with 10), then I wrote all the things he's done to make me smile(came up with 19, and still counting).
I thought it would also be interesting if I wrote a list of the bad and good I've done for him. I've never done anything bad, that I know of, but with my list of good I could only come up with 3 things *sigh* Maybe I was so cautious of boundaries that I really didn't put in a lot of effort, which forced him to do things to hurt me now I realize, or maybe I'm just that guarded. Either way, this has me wondering about how I'd be in a relationship. I would definitely like a guy to miss me when I'm away, but that's not going to happen with a list of three good things I have, or rather, am willing to offer. I think that's why I get so confused on why a guy likes me in the first place lol.
But I just wonder from people that are friends with Caps or who have dated Caps, and from Caps themselves, do we give more than we take, or do we take more than we give?
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Posted by cheekyfaerie

Actually, in typing that out, it came to me. I give out of joy and having someone expect it or demand it takes the joy out of it. It's no longer heartfelt and spontaneous, it's work.


I totally agree! I'm usually the bigger giver but I believe in give and take. If I don't get at least 25% I start to feel like I'm being taken advantage of and not appreciated. It doesn't have to be materialistic for me, a special thought, kind gesture. A willingness to help out and not take me for granite. I don't give to get anything in return but I'm not a fool either. Keep me happy, the more giving I am. Take me for granite and you'll get little to nothing! Which is a shame because I love to give and nuture, but it's twice as good if reciprocated.
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Firstly get it out of your head that you caused the way he reacted.. You don't need to take that weight on your shoulders.. At best someone can lead another person to react to someone or something in a particular way. But at the end of the day, that second person not only chooses to react, but also they choose the manner in which they do so.. Neither of which you forced..
That said.... My answer would be, your just that guarded.. And don't go tying to change that to much. Not only is it a strong characteristics, or large part of the makeup of who you are. But it's also one of the many things I really dig about you cap ladies.. See I'm a firm believer in 'Nothing worth while comes easy'. Not only that, I think we all appreciate the thing in life that take some work to get there more then the ones that come easy..
Lets say me as a guy is dating two different women. The first one, super open. First date without knowing anything about me started telling me everything, all her dark secrets. Open from the start, open just like she had been with the last 10 guys before me. Then say she even started to fall for me, just like she had for the 10 guys before me.. Now say the second woman was very guarded, very selective. She took her time getting to know me, assessing me, vibing off our chemistry. And not at all like the 10 guys before me with her, who all for lack of that selective fit got shot down, the second woman began to over time open up to me. Tell me things or feelings that very few know or have heard. Now say that this second woman also started to fall for me. But unlike the first woman, the second had been so guarded, so selective that I might be the one of vary few that shes ever romantically cared about to this level her whole life.. So just assume for a moment that both the women are identical in every way save for this... Which do you think I would value more?? The open one that without thought, instantly gave me pretty much the same thing that she gave everyone else.. Or, the guarded one that took her time thinking about it, making sure I was a good match, a good investment, we had the right chemistry. Then over a much longer time gave me a rare privilege of her opening up, and the gift of her heart that few, if any have truly had... Who's openness would I value more? Who's heart would I cherish more??
So whats wrong with you being guarded?? Whats wrong with being very selective?? Winking
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Why a guy would like you in the first place if your so guarded.. Well, lets not kid ourselves here. Just because your guarded and don't let anyone one in, doesn't mean that nobody can see inside to who you are, just means they're on the outside looking in.. haha.. Thats one thing about the Cap/Taur being on the same wavelength. I think more often that not the chemistry is right that we can see each other for the naked true self and just 'get' each other.. The right person sees what they like inside, hell yeah they'll stick around. If they see enough of what they like inside they might even try for a long time... haha
How you'd be in a relationship?? Sure your guarded now, but once some lucky guy gets past that wall.. I'll bet you'll straight 180 on how much effort you put in.. haha Since its so rare that you find a guy that makes it to that level, I'd bet that caps ladies love pretty damn hard when they get there.. And I bet it'd show...So don't worry about it, you'll know when you need to know.. Winking
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LoL@M! TaurGuys ENTIRE post made me smile. Like I was cheesing the whole time reading it. I gotta stay away from you Taurus guys. You all know how to get to a Cappy maybe a little too well. Thanks for that, and of course I'm the same way. I don't like anything that comes too easy either. :-)
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@Quietstorm, your guy sounds like a sweetie. I can relate to him being guarded and not wanting other to take your kindness for a weakness. Luckily for you, he let down that guard and now he sounds like a total sweetheart. The two of you seem to have a balance, which is good. I could definitely see myself trying to keep up lol.
@cheeky, I definitely agree. I think that's also part in others taking your kindness for weakness. Honestly, I don't like to feel obligated to much of anything. I think it's a part of human nature to take advantage at times, so I'm very selective with who I give too and what for.
@Glamour, I've realized that thoughts and kind gestures mean a lot more than I ever thought they would. I'm not materialistic. The only way I'd push for it is if money means a lot to you, and I would probably use it to gauge if it means more than I do. Other than that, I can't believe how much I like the simple things and how long they linger. When I made that list of the Taurus guy, #18 was that he bought me a shirt. #2 on the list was that I switched desks at work and he brought me a more comfortable chair to sit in. Who knew that stuff would matter to me so much? I surely didn't lol.
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He didn't buy me an office chair lol. We worked together and I switched desks, so he went around looking for me a more comfortable seat to sit in. He basically stole someone else's chair, but the thought was sweet lol.
Aw man, that's a sucky story. That's another reason I'm a little hesitant about accepting things, no matter how small, from people. If I do something nice for someone, I'm just doing it with no hidden agenda or strings attached. Unfortunately, not everyone is like that. They do things hoping it will lead to something.
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Dang, I didn't realize I was that transparent, or my feelings were that obvious, but you pretty much nailed it PD. You've got the situation down, from my thoughts and how I was feeling to how he started to react towards it. I posted a few days ago that this Taurus was starting to act similar to how a Libra friend did a while back. Then there was a Scorpio who didn't try to make me jealous or force a reaction out of me how the Taurus, and Libra did, but he just slowly distanced himself from me which hurt like h# $ @. I couldn't for the life of me figured out what I did or was doing wrong. I'm glad that you see that my actions are not intentional. It's just with me, 1st it takes a whole lot of time, and then it has to feel at-least a good 98% right. I analyze everything, I sense everything, I visualize everything and if anything is off I just can not open up all the way, and I was very honest with the Taurus and would always let him know that we were just too far apart in age, but I guess my actions would tell a different story.
I posted a few days ago that I was going to end our friendship, for the exact same reason you said, which is its not fair to him. Luckily, it's been a week since we've talked, and I miss him like crazy and wish that we can be friends, but I'm not sure on how I would/could possibly change, so I definitely agree with you.
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Okay, I think I need a little help here. So I haven't talked to the Taurus since the 17th of August, about a good two weeks, and RIGHT when I feel I'm getting over our friendship, he texts me today. I've been very stressed and in pain physically because I psych myself out when stressed and for the first time today I feel much better, and for the first time today he texts me. It's also weird that I had a bad vision about him very early this morning. The vision was that we saw each-other at the same event and I sorta ignored him and as I walked outside he violently attacked me. It just made me wonder if there's any anger in him towards me, which then made me realize that I should really let him go. Now BAM, I see a text saying "Hey amigo" about two hours ago. I'm just now seeing it because my phone was away from me in the other room.
It's not like there was any closure because he stopped texting/calling before I could tell him that it's best we stop contacting each-other. I felt that him disappearing was him initiating the end of the friendship, and since he's always initiated contact, I guess I've been following his lead.
How do I approach this?
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I'm a bit stuck on what I should text back and say.
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Posted by ellessque
just write back "hola smile"
...then leave it like that. keep it drama free. you are eating yourself up for no reason. relax. it's just a greeting.
you should also look up your vision/dream. lots of time they are opposite then what we see in them.


Thanks! If there is any anger I don't want to make it worse, but I will do just as you said. I'll see where it goes from there, as I'm not about to pretend to be buddy buddy at this point.
I know the other night I had a dream that penguins was sliding around and following/chasing me in my grandma's old house. Talk about creepy! They were friendly penguins, but come on, the idea. It was three of them and I finally got fed up and yelled and they starting backing up with human expressions of fear lol. Weird! I looked it up...
Penguin
To see a penguin in your dream, signifies that your problems are not as serious as you may think. It serves as a reminder for you to keep your cool and remain level-headed. Alternatively, seeing a penguin in your dream suggests that you are being weighed down by your emotions or by a negative situation. You need to find some balance and inner harmony
Thought that was interesting.
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Posted by ellessque
that is interesting. really interesting.
i've looked up a few of mine before, when they've gotten bazarre and it usually is some kind of emotional thing i'm trying to work thru.
i think keeping it friendly and consciously keeping your cool about it will be the best for you. take one text, one conversation at a time and focus on those as entities only. don't worry about the past ones and don't get anxiety over the future ones that haven't transpired yet.
then maybe your dreams might lighten up a little?



Yeah, I think mine are emotional as well because I had another bizarre dream a night or two before that one. I woke up in the back seat of a car with a five month old baby that was mine. The weird thing was that I didn't remember getting pregnant, being pregnant, or even having the baby. I didn't remember anything before then and I cried to everyone because I wondered what kind of mother I'd been to a baby I didn't remember. They all said I had been doing good with the baby and as a mother, but I didn't remember anything. In that dream I also looked out the window and saw 5 airplanes disappear in the sky, so I noticed that dream had to do with things disappearing. Crazy..
But I will definitely try to keep my cool, and just let it flow although I'm wondering if he's contacting me to get info about my current situation, in other words to be nosy?! ugh. I'll try not to think about it too much and just see what he says. Thanks for the advice Elle!
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I've invested time into our friendship. There is no way I would just throw that away without giving him multiple opportunities to explain himself and how he feels. If I ask for honesty, and the issue is either denied, or the question is left unanswered, then THAT'S when I come to the conclusion that you are not as invested as I am. Anything he's asked, I've given an honest answer to. I'm not a liar by any means, so I am not one to pretend that things are okay if that's not the case.
He's thrown jabs on several occasions, and I asked if there was any underlying issues. His answer? "Nah" He's tried to make me jealous intentionally. If you are intentionally trying to hurt me, why even ask if an issue is there? It's obvious, but instead of him coming to me with the issue he tries to manipulate the situation by forcing a reaction he wants to see. This last straw was him indirectly referring to me as a b#@ $ % . Of course, I told him off and immediately asked what the deal was. You think I got an honest answer? Not at all. So at this point, I've definitely come to my conclusions and I don't feel I'm wrong for it. He deals with his issues at his own time, or not at all. I do not operate like that, especially when you'd rather take a jab than come to me directly. It's really not worth it, and a sit down with him has not helped. We worked together. I tried it.
In the end, it all boils down to trust, and I don't trust him to even make an attempt at this point. In some ways, I don't feel he trusts me, but the difference is, I'm not underhanded, and I'll cut you off before it gets to where I feel I can't be upfront or direct. He's the complete opposite, and we seem to both be too stubborn to meet in the middle or change how we are use to operating. Thing is, his method will eventually either lead to a blow-up, to verbal and emotional restraint, or to a lot of underhanded behavior and it does.not.have.to if I've given you opportunities to talk and express yourself, as I'm willing to do the same.
Love of any kind, imo, does not hurt, or at-least it shouldn't. If this is called being an emotional coward, then I need to go a step further and kill these emotions off if being a coward still hurts. Luckily, I feel much better now, and I like where I'm at. Going back and trying to solve ish that happened weeks and months ago is not worth it, especially if I still will not trust you.
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Btw it's been a rough two weeks and this situation was the start of revealing something a bit deeper, and unrelated to him. (My lilith is in Pisces, ugh). My mother revealed a bit to me, so I'm making sense of the dreams, which I'm happy about starting the process of understanding and dealing with the past, finally.
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"He wasn't happy with how you were treating him as I stated in my 1st post and reacted to inflict pain on you because of what he was feeling."
The only thing I could have done differently was not begin the friendship in the first place. I treated him the same as I treat any guy, not many btw lol, that insists on being around me 24/7. The only thing different was that chemistry and feelings developed. I think in his mind, he didn't see why something wasn't being made of the situation if it appeared to him that we had feelings for each-other. He finally decided to ask about a month ago "do you really like me?" and I was honest in giving him the answer, which was "yes, but I don't see me ever being comfortable with the age difference." Maybe I should have said that months ago, maybe he should have asked me months ago. who knows, but I agree that moving on is the best thing to do. No, a future with him as my boyfriend wasn't in my plans, but I did want us to remain friends. If he ever opens up about where I went wrong and hurt him then I'll put it behind us, if not, then its right where it stands. I'm definitely trying to look forward though.
I'm starting to realize that I just can't have male friends, well only my Cappie. Coincidentally, we also went through something similar, and this was after 8yrs of friendship. I brushed him off about pursuing something more, and it's been in the past ever since. No trying to make me jealous, no catty remarks, and no hurt feelings, AND we are still friends. I was hoping for it to be that simple.
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He's testing you out. He must be bored with the other woman he's been running after. Probably bored by the sex with her and wants to test out where you are at so he can get some Mummy attention. I bet he's not on DPX asking advice about what to say to you in his reply text :-)

He's a got you where he wants you :-)
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There should only be one smile up above.

I never smile twice at Capricorns!
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Posted by MissBizarre
He's testing you out. He must be bored with the other woman he's been running after. Probably bored by the sex with her and wants to test out where you are at so he can get some Mummy attention. I bet he's not on DPX asking advice about what to say to you in his reply text :-)

He's a got you where he wants you :-)


Girl, none of our friends, partners, or spouses are on DXP asking about us. What is suppose to be the point in saying that lol?
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Posted by MissBizarre
There should only be one smile up above.

I never smile twice at Capricorns!


Am I missing something here lol??
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Posted by PurpleDiamond
Yeah its a fine line having male friends as since becoming committed to my Sag, I haven't been interested in having male friends anymore because it just becomes too much of a hassle. My exCap guy friend had been my best bud for years and we'd have our ups & downs but was always able to work it out and get past them. However when I started dating my Sag, his attitude completly changed and I was very confused as to why he had started acting a ass. He had always known I didn't see him past friendship but I guess he felt as long as I wasn't serious about anyone, he always still had a opportunity. Then when he realized I was indeed serious about my Sag and was committed to giving our relationship a real chance whatever hopes he had of us hooking up down the line wasn't looking to bright anymore and I guess that's where the problem started. But yeah my man is my bestfriend and there isn't anything I need from a male friend that I'm not already getting from him.


My mother was engaged to someone that didn't want her to continue her male friendships, and didn't see the point in having male friends at all. He said he was all the friend she would need. I thought that was psycho crazy, but she talked about it with married women and they agreed. I still think it's crazy to be told not to have any, but maybe there is something to men and women not really being able to be friends.
That Cap guy liked you, and yep he did feel that if you weren't serious about anyone then he'd always have an opportunity. Not only that, but I'm sure he got used to having your attention and time. Territorial, or possessive maybe? but he didn't want to share lol.
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Posted by PurpleDiamond
Oh no my man never told me not to have male friends, that was a decision I made for myself. My man didn't have to tell me not to have male friends, out of respect for him I got rid of them. He has also got rid of his female friends and deleted his Facebook. When you are in a committed relationship that's leading to marriage, there are certain responsbilities and sacrifices that come with it. That's exactly why married women need to have married friends or those who've been married before because the dynamics of being single vs married are very different. Not saying single women can't be friends with married women, but its important to have friends who you're evenly yolked with.


Yeah, I know your guy didn't say that to you. I just brought it up as that was a big thing for her then fiance.
That's nice the two of you deleted your accounts. I don't have many male friends, but I would definitely have the mentality that the friends I had coming into the relationship are the friends I'm keeping, if the issue is ever brought up. The two of you doing it out of respect is sooooooo much better than saying what you should/shouldn't have. I like that.
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Hmmm. The caps I know... I really only KNOW 2 now. One is hard to tell because he's hardly around. Seems to be a giver. Real nice guy. The other one i've known for years. Well, he's somewhat of a giver of material things but NOT of himself. Emotionally unavailable to everyone. Biggest flake I know. If it's your birthday, you won't have to pay for a thing! He'll even get upset if you suggest it. Otherwise, don't count on him.
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Posted by ninjamu
Hmmm. The caps I know... I really only KNOW 2 now. One is hard to tell because he's hardly around. Seems to be a giver. Real nice guy. The other one i've known for years. Well, he's somewhat of a giver of material things but NOT of himself. Emotionally unavailable to everyone. Biggest flake I know. If it's your birthday, you won't have to pay for a thing! He'll even get upset if you suggest it. Otherwise, don't count on him.


The second Cap reminds me of both my Cap friend and I, well about to be ex-Cap friend. We got into it earlier today as he texted me "f% you lnana04" for basically flaking out on him today, but in my defense, my phone was disconnected for a second and I just forgot to check it for the first half of the day. When I did I saw that he texted and responded to him, and that's when he texted that to me. We were suppose to hang out today. We both have a very sarcastic and harsh sense of humor, especially with each-other, but he really struck a nerve with that one. I'm like WHAT THE HECK is going on with me and these guys?! I definitely need a break from them all.
But yeah, it's extremely easy for many of us to give material things. I started a thread a while back asking what's the easiest/hardest thing for each sign to do, in hopes that we all can learn to not get mislead by people of different signs. Being manner-able and generous with material things was the easy thing I put down for Caps, and it doesn't mean much when Cap males do it. Going beyond that, and into emotional territory and being emotionally available is foreign to "some" of us. Definitely the hardest.
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Wow, why wasn't it told to me weeks ago to do his chart lol? He's a Mars in Cancer, and it makes a bit more sense now.
"People with mars in cancer must avoid direct confrontations with others, preferring to side-step issues or attack them indirectly. Aggressive, competitive behavior makes them uncomfortable."
I also read that Mars in Cancer gravitate toward familiarity which explains me and his ex girlfriend having not only the EXACT same birthdate, but also the same moon(leo) and the same venus(scorpio), which I guess the venus compliments his cancer mars? No wonder he gravitated to me and no wonder he stuck. My mars is in libra, which I assume compliments his venus in gemini?! Idk, but I get it now. Its also interesting that him and his ex just stopped talking, which is how they ended.
Btw, yall are getting to see first-hand how venus in scorp works..
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