Cap Man finally got his chance and blew it
This topic was created in the Capricorn forum by a muse a libra on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 and has 59 replies.
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I've been friends with a great Capricorn man for several months now. It started as dating, very casually with little to no physical contact as I wasn't sure how I felt about him but knew he was a good friend. I then met somebody and broke things off with him.
We came together again last weekend and I was surprised at how attracted to him I was, how excited I was to see him. Really, did not expect to feel that way since I never had such strong feelings in the past. I opened myself up to him, physically and emotionally that night. We did not have sex but touched more and were closer than we ever had been.
But he blew it. Completely. He flirted outrageously with another woman right in front of me, took a lot of prescription medication and got so drunk he was falling all over and on his face at that. It was really disappointing. Why did he behave that way?? I don't understand, he told me he's been wanting me for so long and was so happy I finally felt the same, why wouldn't he be more careful the first night?
We came together again last weekend and I was surprised at how attracted to him I was, how excited I was to see him. Really, did not expect to feel that way since I never had such strong feelings in the past. I opened myself up to him, physically and emotionally that night. We did not have sex but touched more and were closer than we ever had been.
But he blew it. Completely. He flirted outrageously with another woman right in front of me, took a lot of prescription medication and got so drunk he was falling all over and on his face at that. It was really disappointing. Why did he behave that way?? I don't understand, he told me he's been wanting me for so long and was so happy I finally felt the same, why wouldn't he be more careful the first night?
"I then met somebody and broke things off with him."
There's your answer.
He was probably feeling bitter and took the opportunity to get back at you (my opinion).
There's your answer.
He was probably feeling bitter and took the opportunity to get back at you (my opinion).
What? People do not give enough information to assess a situation... How/when did he flirt/get wasted if he was intimate and off somewhere in private with you? Did this happen the same night and afterwards, or on a different night following your time spent with him?
I had this happen to me with Cap #1... After I finally gave in and got together with him, after months of knowing him and making him work for it, the next night he was seen out at the bars with another girl and purposely made sure my best friend saw him. It became fairly clear as time went on, that he was looking for me/ looking for a reaction/ seeking a jealous reaction/reassurance. It's still ridiculous, childish behavior that is difficult to tolerate and overlook.
I had this happen to me with Cap #1... After I finally gave in and got together with him, after months of knowing him and making him work for it, the next night he was seen out at the bars with another girl and purposely made sure my best friend saw him. It became fairly clear as time went on, that he was looking for me/ looking for a reaction/ seeking a jealous reaction/reassurance. It's still ridiculous, childish behavior that is difficult to tolerate and overlook.
This all happened on the same night/day. It was a day date, we went bowling and had fun. Went back to his house for a little making out then out with mutual friends. Then he got wasted and flirted.
and you're right, CapGirl. It is ridiculous behavior. And even though I met somebody else, I was always open and honest with him. Before things progressed with us that day, we even discussed what happened, made peace with it. I've told him I was disappointed and that I would be backing off, back to just friends. He apologized, but seemed so blaze about it. At least I wasn't invested.
and you're right, CapGirl. It is ridiculous behavior. And even though I met somebody else, I was always open and honest with him. Before things progressed with us that day, we even discussed what happened, made peace with it. I've told him I was disappointed and that I would be backing off, back to just friends. He apologized, but seemed so blaze about it. At least I wasn't invested.
SimplyMe- your posts are lame. Do you even date??
Lol only snow here- no puddles.
Nothing to do? You're on here pissing away time more than I am! 
I can only assume that the "lucky guy" comment is meant in a sarcastic tone...please elaborate if you expect me to understand.
"...he told me he's been wanting me for so long..."
muse, if you want him--exclusively--keep him rock hard pursuing you by NOT giving into him (having sex). he told you he's been wanting you for so long? ok, now you know. use it for your advantage. make him work for you. don't get off focus b/c of his "flirting". so what, he's flirting. he doesn't want that hefa, he wants you. you know that now. keep him interested by being your sexy, confident self, and unavailable to him sexually. blow off his flirtations. dang, he had to "trip" to make you jealous? good. you have the power. use it to your advantage. if you want him.
muse, if you want him--exclusively--keep him rock hard pursuing you by NOT giving into him (having sex). he told you he's been wanting you for so long? ok, now you know. use it for your advantage. make him work for you. don't get off focus b/c of his "flirting". so what, he's flirting. he doesn't want that hefa, he wants you. you know that now. keep him interested by being your sexy, confident self, and unavailable to him sexually. blow off his flirtations. dang, he had to "trip" to make you jealous? good. you have the power. use it to your advantage. if you want him.
Ooooo, fabulous advice from Pathfinder! Love it, love it. 
pathfinder, that is good advice, and I would take it if I wasn't so disillusioned by the whole situation. I don't feel that I want him. I don't feel that taking too many perscription anti-anxiety pills while drinking on what is essentially a first date bodes well for the rest of a relationship. I babysat a man with a drinking problem for too long, 4 years, and am not in the mood to do it again.
dang, he had to "trip" to make you jealous?
No...he buried his face in the waitresses breasts BEFORE he tripped. Shook it back and forth for about 15 seconds, right in front of me. I wasn't jealous, just turned off. Way way off.
So, Autumnc, you'll see, I do agree with you. I don't feel I have much patience for this kind of behavior at least. This is the only Cap man I've ever been romantically involved with so I don't know how much to chalk up to his sign and how much is just him. When we were seeing each other last fall I didn't feel I was putting up with anything, rather, that I had a very good, dependable friend. I do feel I may be harsh in cutting this fuse short and yes, it has to do with patience and my willingness to get close to him and allow him into my life, but i have this theory:
If he did that first night we got close to each other, he will do it again. And then again. And eventually, I would end up a very sad and lonely libra.
dang, he had to "trip" to make you jealous?
No...he buried his face in the waitresses breasts BEFORE he tripped. Shook it back and forth for about 15 seconds, right in front of me. I wasn't jealous, just turned off. Way way off.
So, Autumnc, you'll see, I do agree with you. I don't feel I have much patience for this kind of behavior at least. This is the only Cap man I've ever been romantically involved with so I don't know how much to chalk up to his sign and how much is just him. When we were seeing each other last fall I didn't feel I was putting up with anything, rather, that I had a very good, dependable friend. I do feel I may be harsh in cutting this fuse short and yes, it has to do with patience and my willingness to get close to him and allow him into my life, but i have this theory:
If he did that first night we got close to each other, he will do it again. And then again. And eventually, I would end up a very sad and lonely libra.
Sorry, I feel that taking those meds doesn't bode well! oops
Smart girl, MuseLibra. I think I enjoy "playing with fire" for the momentary thrill and excitement which doesn't end well, as you said. Cap #1 acted just like that... flirting with waitresses early on in our "relationship", and regardless of why he did it, he was clearly an immature a $ $ who was unable to make any kind of commitment to a normal relationship. So, I think you are making a very wise decision.
SimplyMe... things are not always so SIMPLE as you'd like them to be... I think she has a history of friendship with this guy at least, and I doubt his actions were so clearly meant as you interpret them. Not to say that SHE shouldn't write him off as longterm potential...
I think you're whack all-around but I'll let Libra-Muse defend herself. To me, you seem to have no real life experience to relate to these type of situations but go ahead and keep giving your "black-and-white" interpretations which are as simplistic as "Simply Me".
I'm not a "cap man hater"- Just someone who knows and recognizes their peculiar, idiosyncratic behavior. And at age 38, I'm hardly a "little girl".
Confusion cleared. He is not a good match. Period. Who cares what his mental state /psychological state /emotional state/ relationship state etc etc ....was?? Why did he do that!?!?! Who cares?!?!?
I do have a history of friendship with this man. I feel it's been lost. I wonder if he has problems with alcohol and drugs. I worry about his mental state because I care about him. I care. See? And yes, the confusion has been cleared. I understood as it was happening that it was going badly, and I wanted it to stop.
I'm sorry if it offends you, but I am catch, and honestly there is nothing wrong with knowing that. I am selective in the men I choose, and there is nothing wrong with that. I think it is far more dangerous to underestimate yourself, to assume you are lucky to have a man's attention at all. I have options, I don't flaunt around in any other forum than this because this is a place we can come somewhat anonymously to talk about relationships and experiences we've had.
"If i may say so, i think Libra is obsessing over this situation because of her past with dealing with "drunk" people! I think she is somehow becoming very emotional and equating this incident with her past issues and blowing it up out of proportion!"
I don't feel very emotional. I don't see where in my language it reads that way. I am steadfast and sure of the feelings I have, which are not "disgust" but rather disappointment. The words I used when I spoke to him about how I felt. I am not obsessing over it. I have learned that people don't change. I have NEVER seen him behave that way, in all the time I've known him, how could I have planned to "fix" or "help" him when I didn't know there was a problem. It was sad to me, you don't know this person or my attachments to him, but I can assure I am not acting out malice.
I do have a history of friendship with this man. I feel it's been lost. I wonder if he has problems with alcohol and drugs. I worry about his mental state because I care about him. I care. See? And yes, the confusion has been cleared. I understood as it was happening that it was going badly, and I wanted it to stop.
I'm sorry if it offends you, but I am catch, and honestly there is nothing wrong with knowing that. I am selective in the men I choose, and there is nothing wrong with that. I think it is far more dangerous to underestimate yourself, to assume you are lucky to have a man's attention at all. I have options, I don't flaunt around in any other forum than this because this is a place we can come somewhat anonymously to talk about relationships and experiences we've had.
"If i may say so, i think Libra is obsessing over this situation because of her past with dealing with "drunk" people! I think she is somehow becoming very emotional and equating this incident with her past issues and blowing it up out of proportion!"
I don't feel very emotional. I don't see where in my language it reads that way. I am steadfast and sure of the feelings I have, which are not "disgust" but rather disappointment. The words I used when I spoke to him about how I felt. I am not obsessing over it. I have learned that people don't change. I have NEVER seen him behave that way, in all the time I've known him, how could I have planned to "fix" or "help" him when I didn't know there was a problem. It was sad to me, you don't know this person or my attachments to him, but I can assure I am not acting out malice.
and certainly, I am not a cap man hater, I don't hate him. Where did you get that idea???
"I think I enjoy "playing with fire" for the momentary thrill and excitement which doesn't end well, as you said. Cap #1 acted just like that... flirting with waitresses early on in our "relationship""
playing with fire is fun, but I've got burns to prove it isn't worth it. I've learned my lessons and when all the red flags go up, not just one but ALL of them, it's time to back out.
playing with fire is fun, but I've got burns to prove it isn't worth it. I've learned my lessons and when all the red flags go up, not just one but ALL of them, it's time to back out.
Thanks, CapGirl -- you know the deal.
"I wonder if he has problems with alcohol and drugs. I worry about his mental state because I care about him. I care. "
did you read??
and why shouldn't I be disappointed? First you tell me I'm trying to FIX him, which would probably be CONCERN for him, right? Now I don't care at all for him. Now it's all about me me me and how amaaazing I am and how terrible he is.
You don't know me so I'll let you have your opinion about my disillusionment. I'm a good, kind, caring person who has a lot to offer a man. I know it and am not ashamed of it. Don't try to lower me to make your arguments work. You're snarky and really have no idea what you're talking about.
did you read??
and why shouldn't I be disappointed? First you tell me I'm trying to FIX him, which would probably be CONCERN for him, right? Now I don't care at all for him. Now it's all about me me me and how amaaazing I am and how terrible he is.
You don't know me so I'll let you have your opinion about my disillusionment. I'm a good, kind, caring person who has a lot to offer a man. I know it and am not ashamed of it. Don't try to lower me to make your arguments work. You're snarky and really have no idea what you're talking about.
Muse, here's my opinion if you are considering to explore a more intimate relationship with our cap friend-guy. If not, SimplyMe's standpoint totally works.
Respect yourself. I agree with CapGirl, he's a friend, and with Libras, like most air signs, friends are WAY UP there in the keepsake list. Caps are great friends. You are single now, and the ol' Ying-Yang thing kicked in. Don't worry. Step back and stay objective. Put a little distance between you, both mental and physical. He would do that to you if you acted like he did to you at the bar.
When he approaches you about the apparent "distance" --(no contact from you, etc. You are rethinking the direction of the friendship turned "something else".)-- you tell him exactly how surprised you were at his absurd behavior. See if that makes any difference. If he cares about you, he'll take it to heart.
I'd be surprised if he doesn't take it to heart, if for nothing else than for his value of you as his friend.
Just remember one thing, this guy has been watching you for a LONG time before he made his move. Don't be moved by his attempts to rattle your composure. He is watching your reactions to see if you will do anything distasteful that would compromise his high opinion of you. He knows what he's doing or else he never would have acted so unusual in your face on the same day. Unless he is a total HO, the time he spent with you was special to him, so don't forget that.
Muse, trust your instincts and judgement of his character that you formed from your friendship with him. Let this be your peace and guide. And above all -- don't give in to having sex with him. Eliminate the cuddling. Once he knows how his behavior at the bar gave you a WAY different view of who you thought he was -- (considering him as a romantic interest) -- AND how he thought of YOU, homeboy needs a moment of pause. Take your time to figure out how YOU want to proceed. Take as long as you need to see what he is really about. If he is a HO, kick his azz to the curb. Chalk it up to your making a mistake in friendship as well as companionship b/c he disrespected you on both counts. Respect yourself.
Respect yourself. I agree with CapGirl, he's a friend, and with Libras, like most air signs, friends are WAY UP there in the keepsake list. Caps are great friends. You are single now, and the ol' Ying-Yang thing kicked in. Don't worry. Step back and stay objective. Put a little distance between you, both mental and physical. He would do that to you if you acted like he did to you at the bar.
Correction, if you let some guy nuzzle your breasts in public after he (cap guy) was JUST WITH YOU intimately, you wouldn't have a prayer of him considering you as a serious mate.
When he approaches you about the apparent "distance" --(no contact from you, etc. You are rethinking the direction of the friendship turned "something else".)-- you tell him exactly how surprised you were at his absurd behavior. See if that makes any difference. If he cares about you, he'll take it to heart.
I'd be surprised if he doesn't take it to heart, if for nothing else than for his value of you as his friend.
Just remember one thing, this guy has been watching you for a LONG time before he made his move. Don't be moved by his attempts to rattle your composure. He is watching your reactions to see if you will do anything distasteful that would compromise his high opinion of you. He knows what he's doing or else he never would have acted so unusual in your face on the same day. Unless he is a total HO, the time he spent with you was special to him, so don't forget that.
Muse, trust your instincts and judgement of his character that you formed from your friendship with him. Let this be your peace and guide. And above all -- don't give in to having sex with him. Eliminate the cuddling. Once he knows how his behavior at the bar gave you a WAY different view of who you thought he was -- (considering him as a romantic interest) -- AND how he thought of YOU, homeboy needs a moment of pause. Take your time to figure out how YOU want to proceed. Take as long as you need to see what he is really about. If he is a HO, kick his azz to the curb. Chalk it up to your making a mistake in friendship as well as companionship b/c he disrespected you on both counts. Respect yourself.
Yikes...let me straigten something out here. I meant applying SimplyMe's advice on previous pages about leaving him alone if you are not interested, not that you think of nothing but yourself, Muse.
"however your whole point in posting this thread was ...look how fabulous i am and what a dumb guy he is that he had to go and blow it with me!"
SimplyMe, do you really think that? I think you are missing the point here. It was his blatant disrespect to her personally that turned her off -- not necessarily the alcohol or drug abuse that he used to trigger his behaviour.
Why do you think he would do that?
And by the way, she IS fabulous. So are you.
If you do really care what are you going to do about it? Please dont take the moral high ground because that does not show in your intentions.
I don't have a plan on how to handle this sudden appearance of what, on the surface, seems to be drug abuse. I am not him, why is it my responsibility to care for him, now?? I don't understand? I am busy taking care of my own problems, my own weaknesses. And in my experiences, addicts have to help themselves...
"Your attitude irks me and thats what i have mentioned and i will stick with it...thnk you very much!"
you're providing no real advice. You formed an opinion of me right off the bat and came here to run me down. You don't know me, and I've explained my intentions to you. You've made up your mind and to be honest, you sound a little bitter, I see no reason for you to take it out on me. If I irk you so much, please go.
The point of this board to understand his motivation, gain some insight from fellow Caps, see if there was something about it I couldn't see.
Pathfinder, you are brilliant. Thank you. I have backed off and explained the reasons why to him. I don't know yet if this friendship is salvageable, I sincerely hope so. I hope you're right, as I don't believe his behavior is consistent. I just don't know which side is the "real" side. Was he holding back in front of me all these months, or was that night a fluke of too much drug use? Either way, it makes me uncomfortable. I don't know how to proceed back into the friendship at this point, but from what you've said, it sounds like distance is the key here...that time will reveal the right move? I hope so...at least.
I don't have a plan on how to handle this sudden appearance of what, on the surface, seems to be drug abuse. I am not him, why is it my responsibility to care for him, now?? I don't understand? I am busy taking care of my own problems, my own weaknesses. And in my experiences, addicts have to help themselves...
"Your attitude irks me and thats what i have mentioned and i will stick with it...thnk you very much!"
you're providing no real advice. You formed an opinion of me right off the bat and came here to run me down. You don't know me, and I've explained my intentions to you. You've made up your mind and to be honest, you sound a little bitter, I see no reason for you to take it out on me. If I irk you so much, please go.
The point of this board to understand his motivation, gain some insight from fellow Caps, see if there was something about it I couldn't see.
Pathfinder, you are brilliant. Thank you. I have backed off and explained the reasons why to him. I don't know yet if this friendship is salvageable, I sincerely hope so. I hope you're right, as I don't believe his behavior is consistent. I just don't know which side is the "real" side. Was he holding back in front of me all these months, or was that night a fluke of too much drug use? Either way, it makes me uncomfortable. I don't know how to proceed back into the friendship at this point, but from what you've said, it sounds like distance is the key here...that time will reveal the right move? I hope so...at least.
Autumnc, yes, I understand completely what you're saying, it is an option I've considered. But like you said, I don't know how to remedy it in my heart for him. I just kept wishing it wasn't happening the way it was, but it kept getting worse as the night wore on. I sincerely wanted a chance with him, to make a go of it since he does respect me so much and he is a good person. Even with your thoughts in my head, though, I can't turn back time and can't undo what happened. I am turned off and am not sure what it would take to turn me back on to him...thanks for your insight. I've read some of your posts before and always find you refreshing and honest.
Muse, whatever you do, don't make any excuses for his behavior. I don't care HOW nervous he was. Men don't go nuzzling women's breasts out of nervousness. Give me a break, already. He needs to get control of himself.
All relationships experience growing pains. We can't control that. We discover things about people and ourselves all the time along the way. Some things we like, some things we don't. It's not that we are "perfect for each other" that makes us stay in relationship, it's both person's acceptance of one another. However, we can control the KIND of relationship we can have with another person.
This seems to be where you are at now, Muse. There's this blurry/fuzzy area here b/c you are friends, first. He knows you as PERSON. He was privy to some intimate information about you that he misused. It was like a betrayal. No one else at the bar probably realized how humiliated/embarrassed/disappointed, etc. you were by his behavior except you and HIM. He needs to realize how his carelessness of your feelings impacted you, and then APOLOGIZE to you to the point where he is risking the kind of humiliation/embarrassment/rejection, etc. that only YOU could inflict on him. If the shoe were on the other foot, you'd be eating crow a long time. They don't forget that sh1t.
All relationships experience growing pains. We can't control that. We discover things about people and ourselves all the time along the way. Some things we like, some things we don't. It's not that we are "perfect for each other" that makes us stay in relationship, it's both person's acceptance of one another. However, we can control the KIND of relationship we can have with another person.
This seems to be where you are at now, Muse. There's this blurry/fuzzy area here b/c you are friends, first. He knows you as PERSON. He was privy to some intimate information about you that he misused. It was like a betrayal. No one else at the bar probably realized how humiliated/embarrassed/disappointed, etc. you were by his behavior except you and HIM. He needs to realize how his carelessness of your feelings impacted you, and then APOLOGIZE to you to the point where he is risking the kind of humiliation/embarrassment/rejection, etc. that only YOU could inflict on him. If the shoe were on the other foot, you'd be eating crow a long time. They don't forget that sh1t.
"If he is willing, his actions will match his humble spirit.. then it will be time that maybe worth doing some re-evaluation."
In that quote, then is the operative word for me. I don't' know about that "his humble spirit" load of snow. He better be geniune in trying to make this right.
So AFTER he has apologized, then the time to have another look at the relationship can truly begin. Before that happens, Muse, your thoughts are biased since you don't know what made him act that way. Thus, you could be cheating yourself of the opportunity to make a solid decision about what type of relationship you want with him without any regrets. So get the apology then take YOUR time. All may not be lost in the "platonic" friendship department, but in the relationship department, he will need to prove himself worthy of your heart.
muse...don't know it this will help, but i had a similar experience with my cap ex in the beginning.
we were friends for a year before we got together. shortly after we started dating, he also had an 'episode'. i met up with him and his friends at a bar one night, and he was drunk and flirty with one girl in particular. when i got there he had this girl's leg up in the air, and he was licking the length of her calf. ugh.
i took one look, calmly got up and left to get a cab. he followed me out, i told him to stay with his friends but he wanted to come with me. when we got to my place i told him flat out i did not want to continue being with someone who disrespects me and behaves this way. he said he had tried some drugs before going out, and that's what made him act that way ... i told him that regardless of what he thinks made him do it, based on his actions i didn't feel that he was the right person for me at that time. if he wanted to continue flirting and partying with other women, then go ahead, but i would be out of the picture.
after that, he behaved himself, didn't drink as much and never touched any kind of drugs ... he changed himself to the point that his friends asked how i stopped him from being the party animal that he was. i told them that i didn't ask him to do anything; he made those changes because obviously he wanted to make them for himself.
looking back, i guess it was because we had been friends first that he also didn't want to jeopardize losing our relationship. don't get me wrong - i never presented it as an ultimatum. i had just told him the simple truth: that i was prepared to walk away from a situation that i don't want to be in, and that i don't have the energy nor the inclination to change someone.
anyway, we went on to have a 10 yr relationship - never had to worry about him again. he was faithful and i was emotionally secure with him and he never gave me any reason to doubt him the entire time we were together. our relationship ended 3 yrs ago for other reasons, but we still keep in touch as platonic friends.
i'm sharing this as i think you did the right thing ... stand your ground, don't compromise yourself to keep him, not if it makes you uncomfortable to have him in your life. if he does have serious drug issues, you could still offer your support as a friend, but i would be very clear about the platonic part (if that's all you want). good luck
we were friends for a year before we got together. shortly after we started dating, he also had an 'episode'. i met up with him and his friends at a bar one night, and he was drunk and flirty with one girl in particular. when i got there he had this girl's leg up in the air, and he was licking the length of her calf. ugh.
i took one look, calmly got up and left to get a cab. he followed me out, i told him to stay with his friends but he wanted to come with me. when we got to my place i told him flat out i did not want to continue being with someone who disrespects me and behaves this way. he said he had tried some drugs before going out, and that's what made him act that way ... i told him that regardless of what he thinks made him do it, based on his actions i didn't feel that he was the right person for me at that time. if he wanted to continue flirting and partying with other women, then go ahead, but i would be out of the picture.
after that, he behaved himself, didn't drink as much and never touched any kind of drugs ... he changed himself to the point that his friends asked how i stopped him from being the party animal that he was. i told them that i didn't ask him to do anything; he made those changes because obviously he wanted to make them for himself.
looking back, i guess it was because we had been friends first that he also didn't want to jeopardize losing our relationship. don't get me wrong - i never presented it as an ultimatum. i had just told him the simple truth: that i was prepared to walk away from a situation that i don't want to be in, and that i don't have the energy nor the inclination to change someone.
anyway, we went on to have a 10 yr relationship - never had to worry about him again. he was faithful and i was emotionally secure with him and he never gave me any reason to doubt him the entire time we were together. our relationship ended 3 yrs ago for other reasons, but we still keep in touch as platonic friends.
i'm sharing this as i think you did the right thing ... stand your ground, don't compromise yourself to keep him, not if it makes you uncomfortable to have him in your life. if he does have serious drug issues, you could still offer your support as a friend, but i would be very clear about the platonic part (if that's all you want). good luck
If a Cap man is intersted in you, he will not jeopardize his reationship with you. Cap men will do something like flirt but it is not intended to make you jealous esp if you have self confidence and self esteem. If you are jealous of him talking with and playing with other women then you may want to find someone else.
In your situation muse you have to ask yourself some questions. Are you married to this man? Are you in a serious committed relationship with him? Did you mutually agree to see him and only him or did he mutually agree to you that you are the only woman in his life? Do you live together?
If NO, then he can see whomever he wants to see. He considers a friend because you are acting like a friend with benefits. Get a bit tough on him.
In your situation muse you have to ask yourself some questions. Are you married to this man? Are you in a serious committed relationship with him? Did you mutually agree to see him and only him or did he mutually agree to you that you are the only woman in his life? Do you live together?
If NO, then he can see whomever he wants to see. He considers a friend because you are acting like a friend with benefits. Get a bit tough on him.
You are right krobe03, absolutely he can see whomever he would like to see. But he does not have to nuzzle their breasts in front of me..see the difference?
scorp5pt0 thanks for your insights, your story sounds eerily like my own. Spooky. I am standing my ground as I can see no other way around it at this point. Thanks again
You are right krobe03, absolutely he can see whomever he would like to see. But he does not have to nuzzle their breasts in front of me..see the difference?
I see the difference but do you see the difference? You may be acting with your behavior or the way you are carrying yourself like a friend with benefits. He cannot see the value of not flirting with other women and nuzzling their breasts in your face because you are presenting yourself as a friend. Nothing serious. If you want this to work out, you have to get tough on him. REAL tough! Don't act jealous, just start seeing and dating other men in his face. Put him on the bottom of your list.
I have been in a serious relationship with a Cap man for 11 years now. You have to be tough! Set some boundaries. I know you want him to respect you but with this slow moving male, he feels that you have to earn his respect. He is not going to just give it too you.
I see the difference but do you see the difference? You may be acting with your behavior or the way you are carrying yourself like a friend with benefits. He cannot see the value of not flirting with other women and nuzzling their breasts in your face because you are presenting yourself as a friend. Nothing serious. If you want this to work out, you have to get tough on him. REAL tough! Don't act jealous, just start seeing and dating other men in his face. Put him on the bottom of your list.
I have been in a serious relationship with a Cap man for 11 years now. You have to be tough! Set some boundaries. I know you want him to respect you but with this slow moving male, he feels that you have to earn his respect. He is not going to just give it too you.
Muse, it seems my "nuzzling breasts" quote is being used quite often in some posts to prove various points that are not mine. You have done nothing wrong. You are letting him know you will not stand for a man who claims he is interested in you to behave that way. No excuses.
You are a strong person and what's more, you respect and value yourself. Either he will or he won't. But whatever his choice, doesn't change how you will stand to be treated or how you think of yourself. Whether you leave him alone completely, or stay a platonic friend, you've made your stance crystal clear to him and anybody else.
You are a strong person and what's more, you respect and value yourself. Either he will or he won't. But whatever his choice, doesn't change how you will stand to be treated or how you think of yourself. Whether you leave him alone completely, or stay a platonic friend, you've made your stance crystal clear to him and anybody else.
Earn his respect? By dating and flaunting other men in his face? I say "Bullshyt"! You should already HAVE his respect from the outset, particularly with an established history of friendship. And moreover, running other men around him is just game playing and isn't going to garner you respect. Be upfront and lay the boundaries by stating what you want and what your expectations are, if you're going to go that route of "boundary-laying"/respect.
I've done it both ways and made my mistakes! I actually mixed and matched the two approaches which was just the cause of utter confusion. Told him not to call me at all unless he was willing to stop whoring around, and then a few days later, he shows up at the bar with his boss and work colleagues- instead of a hoochie- and I end up going off and making out with some random guy at the bar all night in front of him.
Point is-- avoid games, keep it straight-forward, and be consistent with your words and actions.
I've done it both ways and made my mistakes! I actually mixed and matched the two approaches which was just the cause of utter confusion. Told him not to call me at all unless he was willing to stop whoring around, and then a few days later, he shows up at the bar with his boss and work colleagues- instead of a hoochie- and I end up going off and making out with some random guy at the bar all night in front of him.
Point is-- avoid games, keep it straight-forward, and be consistent with your words and actions.
" You may be acting with your behavior or the way you are carrying yourself like a friend with benefits. He cannot see the value of not flirting with other women and nuzzling their breasts in your face because you are presenting yourself as a friend."
Friends with benefits or not, I wouldn't treat him that way, and certainly expect to be treated better. This was the first time in months we had been together and the first time we'd been so close, physically. It's not like we had a one night stand when we were smashed, we were still on our date for heaven's sake!
And I am completely with CapGirl....flaunting other men in his face hardly sounds like a solution to me, it would only exacerbate the problem further.
Friends with benefits or not, I wouldn't treat him that way, and certainly expect to be treated better. This was the first time in months we had been together and the first time we'd been so close, physically. It's not like we had a one night stand when we were smashed, we were still on our date for heaven's sake!
And I am completely with CapGirl....flaunting other men in his face hardly sounds like a solution to me, it would only exacerbate the problem further.
Earn his respect? By dating and flaunting other men in his face? I say "Bullshyt"! You should already HAVE his respect from the outset, particularly with an established history of friendship.
If he is about to see who he wants too see and flaunt, she should too. It is not to make him jealous. Women think men get jealous really quick and care about them just because they "sleep" together. It is not playing games, not to a man anyways. It is a challenge that a man loves believe it or not. Men love the challenge of working for a woman who presents herself as a prize instead of sitting around waiting for him to be this special man.
Just because he is spending time with him and sleeping with him does not mean that he wants something serious. Instead of living in a fantasy world, making the relationship out to be something that muse can obviously see is not working, she should let him see that she is not going to sit around and wait for him to chose her. She is doing the chosing with men in her life and she will settle for choices that are RIGHT for him, not wrong.
It is not games, she will clearly let her Cap man see that he is not that important to her for him to get under her skin. If he has to flaunt around another women, she has other men in her life that she can flaunt around too. She is not going to allow him to mistreat her mentally or emotionally. If he cannot step up to the plate and wants a friend with benefits he will have to find someone else. She is not a toy.
They are not married or in a serious relationship and she will clearly show him she loves herself first and foremost and she could careless what HE thinks about her simply because she thinks more of herself.
If he is about to see who he wants too see and flaunt, she should too. It is not to make him jealous. Women think men get jealous really quick and care about them just because they "sleep" together. It is not playing games, not to a man anyways. It is a challenge that a man loves believe it or not. Men love the challenge of working for a woman who presents herself as a prize instead of sitting around waiting for him to be this special man.
Just because he is spending time with him and sleeping with him does not mean that he wants something serious. Instead of living in a fantasy world, making the relationship out to be something that muse can obviously see is not working, she should let him see that she is not going to sit around and wait for him to chose her. She is doing the chosing with men in her life and she will settle for choices that are RIGHT for him, not wrong.
It is not games, she will clearly let her Cap man see that he is not that important to her for him to get under her skin. If he has to flaunt around another women, she has other men in her life that she can flaunt around too. She is not going to allow him to mistreat her mentally or emotionally. If he cannot step up to the plate and wants a friend with benefits he will have to find someone else. She is not a toy.
They are not married or in a serious relationship and she will clearly show him she loves herself first and foremost and she could careless what HE thinks about her simply because she thinks more of herself.
RIGHT for him, not wrong. Right for her is what I meant.
" You may be acting with your behavior or the way you are carrying yourself like a friend with benefits. He cannot see the value of not flirting with other women and nuzzling their breasts in your face because you are presenting yourself as a friend."
Friends with benefits or not, I wouldn't treat him that way, and certainly expect to be treated better. This was the first time in months we had been together and the first time we'd been so close, physically. It's not like we had a one night stand when we were smashed, we were still on our date for heaven's sake!
And I am completely with CapGirl....flaunting other men in his face hardly sounds like a solution to me, it would only exacerbate the problem further
If you are not in a serious relationship with him, other men will not bother him. You are trying to make this man care for you more than he obviously does. Men don't HAVE sexual emotions that tie them to us like women do. THey can be with us and sleep with us and look past tommorrow. Spending time with a man means nothing more than spending time with him. He does not care about your friendship the way you want him too. See it for what it is worth and stand your grounds. You seem more worried about how he would feel if you CHALLENGE him on his BS and worried about him, his feelings, what he will think and he clearly showed you he doesn't care.
Cap men do not hurt women by flaunting other women in their face. He will stick with you and be there for you and cherish and love you instead of try and hurt you. I wouldn't settle for the BS! I have been with a Cap man for 11 years now. I should KNOW what I am talking about, if he is not treating you clearly let him know that you will stick him on the back burner and find someone else who will treat you right.
Friends with benefits or not, I wouldn't treat him that way, and certainly expect to be treated better. This was the first time in months we had been together and the first time we'd been so close, physically. It's not like we had a one night stand when we were smashed, we were still on our date for heaven's sake!
And I am completely with CapGirl....flaunting other men in his face hardly sounds like a solution to me, it would only exacerbate the problem further
If you are not in a serious relationship with him, other men will not bother him. You are trying to make this man care for you more than he obviously does. Men don't HAVE sexual emotions that tie them to us like women do. THey can be with us and sleep with us and look past tommorrow. Spending time with a man means nothing more than spending time with him. He does not care about your friendship the way you want him too. See it for what it is worth and stand your grounds. You seem more worried about how he would feel if you CHALLENGE him on his BS and worried about him, his feelings, what he will think and he clearly showed you he doesn't care.
Cap men do not hurt women by flaunting other women in their face. He will stick with you and be there for you and cherish and love you instead of try and hurt you. I wouldn't settle for the BS! I have been with a Cap man for 11 years now. I should KNOW what I am talking about, if he is not treating you clearly let him know that you will stick him on the back burner and find someone else who will treat you right.
I don't think that we can assume at this point that this guy even knows WHAT Muse wants out of this... It's jumping to conclusions to assume that he should know that she wants a relationship with him, and that he is already rejecting her and throwing her back out there. They did not sleep together. She is playing this well, and openly flaunting her dating life in his face is overkill for what's transpired. Unfortunately, directly and openly communicating what you want and are looking for is the only way of avoiding the mixed messages and games altogether... and having that kind of communication takes guts and courage, to face being vulnerable and risking rejection.
Unfortunately, directly and openly communicating what you want and are looking for is the only way of avoiding the mixed messages and games altogether... and having that kind of communication takes guts and courage, to face being vulnerable and risking rejection.
I will tell you what, I have been in a relationship with a Cap man for 11 years now. He always tells me he LOVES the challenge I present. I guess that is why I have a ring and I am getting married when the women on these boards have so much trouble getting him to commit. CHALLENGE him on that BS!
I will tell you what, I have been in a relationship with a Cap man for 11 years now. He always tells me he LOVES the challenge I present. I guess that is why I have a ring and I am getting married when the women on these boards have so much trouble getting him to commit. CHALLENGE him on that BS!
Krobe- you're contradicting yourself all over the place. 11 years or not, you're in a committed relationship and seem to forget the complexity or confusion of being in that murky, gray stage where neither side wants to admit that they want a relationship or have that talk. Muse's is even murkier and less far along because this is the first time they've crossed the friends line. Cap men DO flaunt and use other hoochee women (i.e. waitresses- inconsequential women) in order to test the reaction of the women they're interested in. Alot of Cap men are INSECURE and would rather evoke a reaction from that woman through covert, manipulative tactics like these than face rejection of directly interacting with the woman they truly desire- i.e. by asking her out on a real date or having "the talk"/a talk. Cap men can be complete cowards. Maybe Muse's was just drunk and obnoxious at this particular time... but Cap men are not above using pawns like this to get what they really want.
You seem more worried about how he would feel if you CHALLENGE him on his BS and worried about him, his feelings, what he will think and he clearly showed you he doesn't care.
I am not worried about it. I've told him already I'm done with it and that it was BS how he behaved. Have you read the whole thread? I'm at the point now that I am so turned off I'm not interested in pursuing something with him. He disrespected me and that is it, period. There's not much more to it, I'm trying to gain a better understanding of his motivation and understand what happened. But I'm so turned off by it, there need be no games. I'm out.
I am not worried about it. I've told him already I'm done with it and that it was BS how he behaved. Have you read the whole thread? I'm at the point now that I am so turned off I'm not interested in pursuing something with him. He disrespected me and that is it, period. There's not much more to it, I'm trying to gain a better understanding of his motivation and understand what happened. But I'm so turned off by it, there need be no games. I'm out.
Krobe- you're contradicting yourself all over the place. 11 years or not, you're in a committed relationship and seem to forget the complexity or confusion of being in that murky, gray stage where neither side wants to admit that they want a relationship or have that talk. Muse's is even murkier and less far along because this is the first time they've crossed the friends line. Cap men DO flaunt and use other hoochee women (i.e. waitresses- inconsequential women) in order to test the reaction of the women they're interested in. Alot of Cap men are INSECURE and would rather evoke a reaction from that woman through covert, manipulative tactics like these than face rejection of directly interacting with the woman they truly desire- i.e. by asking her out on a real date or having "the talk"/a talk. Cap men can be complete cowards. Maybe Muse's was just drunk and obnoxious at this particular time... but Cap men are not above using pawns like this to get what they really want.
You seem to hate Cap men do you have one? You are making Cap men be way more uncaring than they really are. Yes, Cap men are cold by nature but they do LOVE and they are very passionate, considerate and are in LOVE with the women they love. Where am I contradicting anything? I am clearly saying to her if a man does not respect you any more then she deserves to be respect then put him on the BACK burner.
If you thinking talking to ANY man and telling him how you feel is going to change him, you are in for a big surprise. There are NO words in this world that is going to make a man fall in love with YOU. EVER, it just doesn't work like that and yes, I am in a committed relationship. Yes, I have went threw some ups and downs in my relationship of 11 years. I have NEVER accepted any man including my Cap man just flaunting another woman in my face.
Muse should not accept it either. I am hear on these boards to tell you MUSE that Cap men are very, very good men. They are very loving partners, good provider and dayum good lovers. He is a keeper. Don't expect everything to be perfect and don't accept his BS! Call him on it. You are not a doormat and he will not respect you for being one.
Capgirl, you seem to be very bitter at Cap men in general. If a man is not MARRIED to you and asked you for any type of committment he can FLAUNT who he wants to. Take it for what it is worth. He does NOT owe you respect, devotion, friendship, commitment NOTHING!
You seem to hate Cap men do you have one? You are making Cap men be way more uncaring than they really are. Yes, Cap men are cold by nature but they do LOVE and they are very passionate, considerate and are in LOVE with the women they love. Where am I contradicting anything? I am clearly saying to her if a man does not respect you any more then she deserves to be respect then put him on the BACK burner.
If you thinking talking to ANY man and telling him how you feel is going to change him, you are in for a big surprise. There are NO words in this world that is going to make a man fall in love with YOU. EVER, it just doesn't work like that and yes, I am in a committed relationship. Yes, I have went threw some ups and downs in my relationship of 11 years. I have NEVER accepted any man including my Cap man just flaunting another woman in my face.
Muse should not accept it either. I am hear on these boards to tell you MUSE that Cap men are very, very good men. They are very loving partners, good provider and dayum good lovers. He is a keeper. Don't expect everything to be perfect and don't accept his BS! Call him on it. You are not a doormat and he will not respect you for being one.
Capgirl, you seem to be very bitter at Cap men in general. If a man is not MARRIED to you and asked you for any type of committment he can FLAUNT who he wants to. Take it for what it is worth. He does NOT owe you respect, devotion, friendship, commitment NOTHING!
Muse~ Don't ya love how we've turned this into Oprah or The View? lol
Motivation... I think he was either (1) obliterated and having fun being obnoxious, and was so liquored/drugged up that he didn't care about or consider the longterm consequences of his actions; or (2) he was consciously manipulating and seeking to evoke a reaction out of you through the flirting; OR (3) he was looking to purposely screw things up because he had just revealed too much and gotten too close to you (digging a little deep with that). I tend to think it was (1) given the level of intoxication you've described and the over-the-top obnoxiousness of shaking your head amidst cleavage of a stranger in public.
Motivation... I think he was either (1) obliterated and having fun being obnoxious, and was so liquored/drugged up that he didn't care about or consider the longterm consequences of his actions; or (2) he was consciously manipulating and seeking to evoke a reaction out of you through the flirting; OR (3) he was looking to purposely screw things up because he had just revealed too much and gotten too close to you (digging a little deep with that). I tend to think it was (1) given the level of intoxication you've described and the over-the-top obnoxiousness of shaking your head amidst cleavage of a stranger in public.
"Cap men DO flaunt and use other hoochee women. Cap men are not above using pawns like this to get what they really want."
this is interesting...had a recent experience with a different cap guy where this happened. we were not friends first, so no history there. just all the 'grey/murky' part.
we only had 3 dates, and it has been a few months since the last one. i overheard a girl say something to him recently that left no doubt that they had been together. cannot say whether he was using her to get a reaction, or whether he was just with her and it has nothing to do with me.
whatever the case, i have stepped back and basically made him invisible (i bump into him pretty much every week). my attitude has been, well, if he can be with her, then he couldn't possibly be interested in me.
i figure if he was seriously interested then he'd come around again at some point, and if not, oh well ... plenty of fish blah blah (or goat, or bull, LOL)
this is interesting...had a recent experience with a different cap guy where this happened. we were not friends first, so no history there. just all the 'grey/murky' part.
we only had 3 dates, and it has been a few months since the last one. i overheard a girl say something to him recently that left no doubt that they had been together. cannot say whether he was using her to get a reaction, or whether he was just with her and it has nothing to do with me.
whatever the case, i have stepped back and basically made him invisible (i bump into him pretty much every week). my attitude has been, well, if he can be with her, then he couldn't possibly be interested in me.
i figure if he was seriously interested then he'd come around again at some point, and if not, oh well ... plenty of fish blah blah (or goat, or bull, LOL)
Krobe- I'm not bitter. I'm laying out the possibilities of what's behind his behavior. Get over your "11 year relationship" already. If it took you that long to get the ring, you're obviously no pro at handling these men EITHER.
and like Muse, am TURNED OFF. so if he IS interested, it will be an uphill climb for him...
Scorp- On that, I'd guess that it was not manipulating etc., as the girl did the leaking within your earshot. Sounds like he is playing the field.
true ... that's the conclusion i had came to as well. momentary weakness/judgement lapse after selective reading of that post, i guess 
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