I feel like I am doing to myself the worst ever
This topic was created in the Capricorn forum by asha on Tuesday, November 1, 2011 and has 60 replies.
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Hi all. My story with a Cap man began about 6 months ago; we met on a dating site. He is around 49, divorced since 2 years, has a little daughter. I am 44, divorced with a grown-up son. We became intimate soon after we met and are in contact every day. My issue with him is that it seems it should be either his way or the highway. We have scandals virtually every week and the last 2 cases borther me a lot. The first case was when I called him to ask what he wanted for dinner (we were supposed to meet that evening). As eating is important to him I wanted to consult dinner with him. He turned down most options I proposed and got impatient, acused me of not being able to handle this myslef. I got angry and told him it`s ridiculous cos I am trying to please him, paying for this conversation and so on. He ended the talk by saying "Oh if it`s a problem for you then I`d better not come". I called him: no reply, texted to say I wanted to talk to him, he replied something not satisfactory in my view so we did not hear form each other for 3 days. He called on the 3rd day and I was distant but agreed to meet the next day. Then came a text: I made the first step but you seem to have organised your life without me so I`ll not call again. I was shocked as this seemed so childish and manipulative I could not believe he was able to write it. Called him and agreed to meet him the same evening as I wanted to talk about all this(a mistake I guess). When we met I realised I had deeper feelings for him than I thought and decided to go on with the relationship and see how it develops. He behaved well and demonstrated he cared by some small gestures and concessions. But then came next case. All was perfect until he began a convesation and asked for honest replies. His issue with his ex is that she was insecure and generally unhappy in his words so may be it was a check of how secure I was, not sure. Anyway he is bad with compliments and I had told him before I felt like he did not like me much. Now he wanted to know why I felt like that and I told him which words made me feel exactly that way. Then we began an argument about how complements should be made (stupid, no?). I told him I did not appreciate comments like eg "you breasts are small but I like them..." He insisted he was just honest and I had a problem with insecurity. All this resulted in a huge huge fight. The cherry on the cake was when I gave him a flavour of how I felt by asking him how he would feel if
The cherry on the cake was when I gave him a flavour of how I felt by asking him how he would feel if I told him he was short and so on and so forth. Result was he got insulted, wanted to end up everything...
Well, we spent the evening together but I really wonder if this is worth continuing. It seems to me the man has issues.
Thank you all for comments. Would appreciate very much if tiki33 gave me her opinion.
Well, we spent the evening together but I really wonder if this is worth continuing. It seems to me the man has issues.
Thank you all for comments. Would appreciate very much if tiki33 gave me her opinion.
Oh gosh, he most definitely has issues and I wouldn't be surprised if he was seeing someone else. When the petty arguments start and they disappear then then that can "sometimes" be a manipulative act for them to handle their "other" situation with no distractions. I can't guarantee its what it is, as it can also be orchestrated to get a break, but either way, its not right and he's being childish. Also he's the type that can't take what he dishes out, which is retarded. I think you are wasting your time on him.
From what you've said things don't sound promising at all. First mistake was giving up the cookie too soon. Sorry, but from what I know about male Caps, if they don't have to truly "work for it" they don't respect and/or value you as much in the other areas of the relationship. If the communication is already breaking down into immature fights over points of view, expressing a thought, opinion, etc. then maybe you need to re-evaluate what it is you think you are holding on too or holding out for. Cap men can be controlling, manipulative and selfish but then most men irregardless can be this well as well, just as women can be too. Cap or not, this guy doesn't sound ready for a relationship and while he's pointing to the ex-wife as simply being too insecure for his tastes I'd have to wonder what he isn't being honest with about his own flaws and insecurities. JMO
Pidelight, exactly my point. The guy is insecure himself and is projecting his insecurity on me and on others too probably.
Inana, I do not think there is another woman involved as I know his daily routine well and we were in close contact so far. Actually I do not think this is about him being a Cap; it is much more about his personality and maturity. In any case this relationship is giving me a hard time and I cannot afford this as my work and life are demanding enough. I think the best I can do for myself is end this without any further talks or explanations cuz they just would not help. A relationship is not a lonely excersise, it needs the efforts of both people involved.
Inana, I do not think there is another woman involved as I know his daily routine well and we were in close contact so far. Actually I do not think this is about him being a Cap; it is much more about his personality and maturity. In any case this relationship is giving me a hard time and I cannot afford this as my work and life are demanding enough. I think the best I can do for myself is end this without any further talks or explanations cuz they just would not help. A relationship is not a lonely excersise, it needs the efforts of both people involved.
Pidelight, one more thing. If by "giving up the cookie too soon" you mean becoming intimate with him soon, I have a different view on the issue. I am a woman and need sex exactly as much as any man so for me it is not a matter of giving up the cookie but of giving myslef what I need. I do not care how this could be seen or interpreted by an immature and insecure guy with lots of complexes as this is his problem.
Categorizing within 15 minutes? Sounds very scholastic and pretentious to me. What if he`s wrong? Or are they never wrong? I do not classify people and do not want to be classified back. I am more for open mindedness and positivity. But I am aries, rising leo and moon in cap 
I do not know where my Cap put me from the start but for sure I do not appreciate where I am today. My problem is I opened my heart too much for him and now I have to close it which is always painful. I HAVE to close it though cuz after 6 months (him being very active all the time) I see HE has issues; HE is just not a good match for me and I cannot subject myself any more to any ups and downs or ins and outs as this takes too much time and energy and I can hardly cope with the rest of my life.
I do not know where my Cap put me from the start but for sure I do not appreciate where I am today. My problem is I opened my heart too much for him and now I have to close it which is always painful. I HAVE to close it though cuz after 6 months (him being very active all the time) I see HE has issues; HE is just not a good match for me and I cannot subject myself any more to any ups and downs or ins and outs as this takes too much time and energy and I can hardly cope with the rest of my life.
Chance11, I could agree if put this way. Objectively and reasonably we are not good for each other, you do need to have recourse to intiution to see this. I am better educated, have higher position, earn more money,I am independent and able to manage my life perfectly well without him. He is slower, less flexible, less ambitious and less active than me.
Now when I talk about positivity I mean that this DOES NOT MATTER to me if he`s strong and confident enough to handle it. The issue is HE IS NOT. He has a problem with all this and from the start tries to put me down by criticizing e.g. the way I dress or by saying "the whole truth" to me like eg a part of my body is not ... whatever enough but he likes it, etc. On the other hand I have no right to criticize him, it is out of the question. This double standard togehter with other things makes me believe it is all about his insecurity and complexes. We are not talking misterious metaphysics here.
Now when I talk about positivity I mean that this DOES NOT MATTER to me if he`s strong and confident enough to handle it. The issue is HE IS NOT. He has a problem with all this and from the start tries to put me down by criticizing e.g. the way I dress or by saying "the whole truth" to me like eg a part of my body is not ... whatever enough but he likes it, etc. On the other hand I have no right to criticize him, it is out of the question. This double standard togehter with other things makes me believe it is all about his insecurity and complexes. We are not talking misterious metaphysics here.
I dont know. I only know his rising is Cancer.
But also think it is a matter of upbringing too, not just astroloty.
But also think it is a matter of upbringing too, not just astroloty.
He's being an thoughtless jerk but hey that's how and who he is @49 there is no changing that.
He verbally batters/abuses a woman with such thoughtless words and expects her to be secure yeah okay, I bet his ex was running over her own shoes to get away from this pathological douche, even the most confident woman wouldn't appreciate a man objectifying her body parts and calling her breast small as if that makes her less valuable.
I wonder if he has bipolar disorder or is a narcissist or maybe even a sociopath, be weary so many of them online it's hard to know what your dealing with, I know for sure sociopaths play this kind of mind game, I've seen a diagnosed sociopath do this and let's just say he has a few women trapped under his spell and they fully believe they are flawed and undeserving and stick by his like elmer's glue, but to be fair I won't diagnose this assclown ooops meant to say guy LOL, I've known a few Cap males that do this shit and I stay away from them out of fear of turning violent (the lesser evolved caps can be some mean sob's).
Most women have bouts with her insecure feelings and that's very personal but then you have these particular men who feed off of a woman's negative feelings by escalating and exasperating those feelings by zooming in on her and pointing perceived flaws out to keep her feeling off balance, it's all a control tactic, the more you doubt yourself, the more you feel bad about yourself well he can control you, he can build you up and break you down and only a weak willed woman would remain with this kind of man.
My suggestion RUN to the nearest exit and don't look back. I think you got it right when you said: "I think the best I can do for myself is end this without any further talks or explanations cuz they just would not help. A relationship is not a lonely excersise, it needs the efforts of both people involved."
I won't debate on the sex issue, I will say that giving sex too soon can form a strong sometimes unhealthy attachment to a man that potentially may not be the right match and can cause you unnecessary pain in the end, had you waited to develop the relationship and form a strong emotional bond you might not have been met with so much disrespect and thoughtlessness.
This guy has no respect for you which means you fit into one of Elle's categories, I'm thinking category 2.
He verbally batters/abuses a woman with such thoughtless words and expects her to be secure yeah okay, I bet his ex was running over her own shoes to get away from this pathological douche, even the most confident woman wouldn't appreciate a man objectifying her body parts and calling her breast small as if that makes her less valuable.
I wonder if he has bipolar disorder or is a narcissist or maybe even a sociopath, be weary so many of them online it's hard to know what your dealing with, I know for sure sociopaths play this kind of mind game, I've seen a diagnosed sociopath do this and let's just say he has a few women trapped under his spell and they fully believe they are flawed and undeserving and stick by his like elmer's glue, but to be fair I won't diagnose this assclown ooops meant to say guy LOL, I've known a few Cap males that do this shit and I stay away from them out of fear of turning violent (the lesser evolved caps can be some mean sob's).
Most women have bouts with her insecure feelings and that's very personal but then you have these particular men who feed off of a woman's negative feelings by escalating and exasperating those feelings by zooming in on her and pointing perceived flaws out to keep her feeling off balance, it's all a control tactic, the more you doubt yourself, the more you feel bad about yourself well he can control you, he can build you up and break you down and only a weak willed woman would remain with this kind of man.
My suggestion RUN to the nearest exit and don't look back. I think you got it right when you said: "I think the best I can do for myself is end this without any further talks or explanations cuz they just would not help. A relationship is not a lonely excersise, it needs the efforts of both people involved."
I won't debate on the sex issue, I will say that giving sex too soon can form a strong sometimes unhealthy attachment to a man that potentially may not be the right match and can cause you unnecessary pain in the end, had you waited to develop the relationship and form a strong emotional bond you might not have been met with so much disrespect and thoughtlessness.
This guy has no respect for you which means you fit into one of Elle's categories, I'm thinking category 2.
Posted by ellessquePosted by asha
I am better educated, have higher position, earn more money,I am independent and able to manage my life perfectly well without him. He is slower, less flexible, less ambitious and less active than me.
this obviously does matter to you if you've listed it so eloquently. you think he doesn't sense this from you?
can someone say "emasculation"?
if you think of yourself as so much "higher" than him, why are you bothering?
I'm thinking you aren't a scorpio. Am I right?click to expand
I think your right about him feeling less than around her, instead of him leaving her he's attempting to downgrade her status and make her feel small because he feels small around her.
Get someone that's your equal, appreciate your accomplishments and won't feel threatened by your ability to be strong and independent or at the most can appreciate the value you bring to the relationship.
Also why did you pick someone that's less ambitious? Are you dating down? You must know that a man that is less accomplished will feel insecure around you, he'll feel less valuable around you and inevitably shift into using defense mechanisms to manage and control you, he can't use money, power and status b/c he has none so he'll resort to abuse of some kind....this can't end good for either of you.
Posted by ellessquePosted by Chance11
perfectly balanced scorpio? sounds like perfectly balanced unicorn or perfectly balanced easter bunny
hey! i have libra in my chart. i'm always balanced.
click to expand
ROTFL!!
She's wobbling like she's a crackhead
Ellessque, could be, I thought about it a lot. I had my reservations at first but then with time I began to open myself more and more and to accept him more, it was a process for me. He was quicker with speaking big words and slower with proving them in practice. For example he always said he thought I was not capable of living with a man on a daily basis while he wanted a family and a woman to share a life with. Then I had to change my place suddenly and I expected him to bring this up and ask me to try live together. Well he never did, just offered me help with the moving.
I say things eloquently cuz I thought a lot about them and have them structured. I am aries, rising leo, moon in capricorn
I say things eloquently cuz I thought a lot about them and have them structured. I am aries, rising leo, moon in capricorn
Yeah Elle that's why I won't diagnose but I've known narc's to be brutally honest and that's okay as long as you mirror that he's perfect perfect perfect LOL but when when she quipped back he's short oh the fight is on and he's going to win, believe that.
Thank you guys for comments!
I admit I may have been somewhat emasculating in the beginnig. Truth is I was concerned precisely about "dating down" with him. But then he said and did things I appreciated a lot and made me feel warm and ... cosy insight (I live in Europe and in a foreign country at that; he is local). Result was I though why not? He seems a good guy, gives me a feeling of normailty and makes me feel good (there is more but is another story). And I gave in and problems began.
Btw I never told him he was short or something. Outside our last argument I`ve always said I loved his body and everything about him; never gave any qualifications. During our last argument I asked him HOW HE WOULD FEEL IF I SAID hi is.... BUT I still liked him. He wanted the truth after all! Result was I had to handle the truth but he could not.
May be I expect too much from him.
I admit I may have been somewhat emasculating in the beginnig. Truth is I was concerned precisely about "dating down" with him. But then he said and did things I appreciated a lot and made me feel warm and ... cosy insight (I live in Europe and in a foreign country at that; he is local). Result was I though why not? He seems a good guy, gives me a feeling of normailty and makes me feel good (there is more but is another story). And I gave in and problems began.
Btw I never told him he was short or something. Outside our last argument I`ve always said I loved his body and everything about him; never gave any qualifications. During our last argument I asked him HOW HE WOULD FEEL IF I SAID hi is.... BUT I still liked him. He wanted the truth after all! Result was I had to handle the truth but he could not.
May be I expect too much from him.
Yeah but that "he's being honest" is an excuse. If she led the conversation and out of nowhere said to him your short but I like your shortness, you're broke but I like you anyway, you're dick is too small but I can work with it well all of those statements maybe accurate and honest but we all know that is just mean no matter how truthful.
I won't enable someone to be thoughtless and cruel because he's being honest, so what my breast are small shut the fuck up about my breast unless you want a heaping dose of honesty coming back your way, and when we said he's being honest it's like giving him permission to say what he wants as long as it's the truth never mind whose feelings get hurt.
If I walked around saying the truth and yet hurting others feelings in the process well inevitably someone is going to put me in my place and won't accept nor enable my cruel thoughtless behavior no matter how honest and rightfully so.
I won't enable someone to be thoughtless and cruel because he's being honest, so what my breast are small shut the fuck up about my breast unless you want a heaping dose of honesty coming back your way, and when we said he's being honest it's like giving him permission to say what he wants as long as it's the truth never mind whose feelings get hurt.
If I walked around saying the truth and yet hurting others feelings in the process well inevitably someone is going to put me in my place and won't accept nor enable my cruel thoughtless behavior no matter how honest and rightfully so.
My point is they are supposed to build one another up and not tear one another down, he's passively tearing her down and then covering it up by saying I like it...Try shut the fuck up unless you have something nice to say without passively making me feel wrong about myself but that's just me though.
You expect reciprocity, it's not too much to expect not to be torn down about your body parts but maybe you are asking for too much from an insecure man that can't control himself verbally.
You expect reciprocity, it's not too much to expect not to be torn down about your body parts but maybe you are asking for too much from an insecure man that can't control himself verbally.
Elle, honesty and truth do not work always particularly when it comes to your body, which you cannot change. In my view you like something in someone you say it, you think a part of his/her body is below your standards, you do not comment it!
My breasts are normal for my height and body shape. My lover qualifying them as small means he would prefer bigger. I`ve never heard anything like this before from a man. I tried to explain to my Cap why I did not appreciate his comments but he insisted he wanted to tell me the truth but them he could not handle truth himslef. What does it imply?
My breasts are normal for my height and body shape. My lover qualifying them as small means he would prefer bigger. I`ve never heard anything like this before from a man. I tried to explain to my Cap why I did not appreciate his comments but he insisted he wanted to tell me the truth but them he could not handle truth himslef. What does it imply?
I get your point but again he can keep that truth to himself, if she pointed out how small his dick was he would probably feel the same way, keep it to yourself, jabbing her about her breast is his way of showing resentment on the slick, I despise passive aggressive men, she's not being sensitive IMO, she's noticing the first signs of verbal abuse, it typically begins with the subtle jabs and then it escalates.
But yeah she should have shut him down real fast with a snarky comment but personally I would have gave that MF the cold shoulder and found someone more appreciative who loves my breast and only talks positive about my body b/c I love me, I love all of me and I the man I'm with will reflect that back to me as well.
But yeah she should have shut him down real fast with a snarky comment but personally I would have gave that MF the cold shoulder and found someone more appreciative who loves my breast and only talks positive about my body b/c I love me, I love all of me and I the man I'm with will reflect that back to me as well.
OK, you guys are faster then me.
My problem is not so much about these arguments. I am more concerned because afterwords he completely shuts down and is ready to throw away everything we had so far; he is like: oh we went too far so we`d better break off. And this happens when we are actually INVENTING problems where they do not exist. What will happen then if there is a real problem?
My problem is not so much about these arguments. I am more concerned because afterwords he completely shuts down and is ready to throw away everything we had so far; he is like: oh we went too far so we`d better break off. And this happens when we are actually INVENTING problems where they do not exist. What will happen then if there is a real problem?
If he like small breast then he'd say I love your breast and tell her all about why he love them but that wasn't the way he said it, he was under valuing her breast b/c they are small and then COVERED his own back by saying I like them, jerks and abusers know if they cover up the negative remark with a positive they'll most likely get away with making the comment.
It's only considered negative in the way he presented it, had he not presented it that way she wouldn't have felt like he was making her breast being small unattractive, he put the context as bigger breast are better but her's are small but I like em.
He doesn't know she's insecure about her breast, he's fishing to find out though and use it as ammunition to use on her later, had she not reacted then he'd fish for other things to use as ammunition later.
This woman doesn't come across insecure or uncomfortable in her skin but if she stick around him long enough and take his verbal vomit silently sits there and allow him to under value her body parts she'll most definitely walk away with a subconscious scar.
And although you've come a long way I still see you Elle falling back on old habits by making excuses for when a man is being a jerk, no one asked him for his opinion about her body he projected his insecure feelings about himself onto her b/c he's the insecure one.
It's only considered negative in the way he presented it, had he not presented it that way she wouldn't have felt like he was making her breast being small unattractive, he put the context as bigger breast are better but her's are small but I like em.
He doesn't know she's insecure about her breast, he's fishing to find out though and use it as ammunition to use on her later, had she not reacted then he'd fish for other things to use as ammunition later.
This woman doesn't come across insecure or uncomfortable in her skin but if she stick around him long enough and take his verbal vomit silently sits there and allow him to under value her body parts she'll most definitely walk away with a subconscious scar.
And although you've come a long way I still see you Elle falling back on old habits by making excuses for when a man is being a jerk, no one asked him for his opinion about her body he projected his insecure feelings about himself onto her b/c he's the insecure one.
Posted by asha
OK, you guys are faster then me.
My problem is not so much about these arguments. I am more concerned because afterwords he completely shuts down and is ready to throw away everything we had so far; he is like: oh we went too far so we`d better break off. And this happens when we are actually INVENTING problems where they do not exist. What will happen then if there is a real problem?
It doesn't matter why he's behaving this way, there all pretty much excuses to not see the reality of the situation, the reality is he's not ready to be with anyone long term and thus he'll use all kinds of defense mechanisms to keep you at a safe distance and you can't change his attitude and sure can't change his need to keep you at a safe distance, you are the enemy and you're only welcomed when he decides to put his defenses down and let you in, so you either put up with his bad behavior or get out, there really is no other choice, well there is one last choice, you can do like so many women do, stick around for years hoping he changes all the while enduring massive amounts of frustration and emotional misery with a twinge of happiness in between and to that I say life is too short and there are men that are less wounded that will not be so hard to be with.
Yes, as I say my problem is the double standards he apply in the relationship and his readiness to break all off when he is not happy, never tries to be co-operative and works things out. Also he seems to still "evaluate" me after 6 months meaning he has not made up his mind where we strand regardless of the fact HE keeps repeating we are a couple and he loves me. I need stability in my personal life to compensate all the stress and instability in all other areas of mu life but this is precisely what I do not get in this relationship: he questuions its existence every noww and then
Posted by asha
Yes, as I say my problem is the double standards he apply in the relationship and his readiness to break all off when he is not happy, never tries to be co-operative and works things out. Also he seems to still "evaluate" me after 6 months meaning he has not made up his mind where we strand regardless of the fact HE keeps repeating we are a couple and he loves me. I need stability in my personal life to compensate all the stress and instability in all other areas of mu life but this is precisely what I do not get in this relationship: he questuions its existence every noww and then
You have a life outside of him right? So go live your life while he figures it all out, you have work, friends, you have other male friends I'm sure, hobbies so the best thing you can do to help this man is FOCUS ON YOUR LIFE and stop involving yourself in his personal internal fight, once he see you are okay no matter what he'll calm down, just be steady and consistent and don't worry too much about him and his insecure feelings and next time be more careful who you give exclusivity to, even if a man offer you exclusivity he may struggle with the meaning and create all kinds of problems for you b/c he's still grappling with losing his freedom, who needs that kind of fricken headache from a 49 year old man.
He's insecure so you'll only add to his insecurities if you revolve yourself around him and his internal struggles, be happy, live your life and forget about him and only pay attention when he's being good to you.
I see your point Elle but at the same time I think it's a fine line between truth (brutally) and using words as a weapon against someone else, very fine line. When a person is devaluing a persons body that's when the line has been crossed.
Tiki and Elle, thank you so much! It is 2 am where I am and real time to go to bed.
I`ve taken my decision with regard to this man already: he is a luxury I cannot afford at the moment. This does not say I do not have feelings for him but I also have responsibilities to myself and to my people who depend on me. Probably he would be better off without me too.
Tiki33, I hope some day you write a book, which will help more women than just us in this forum.
Wish you all luck guys.
I`ve taken my decision with regard to this man already: he is a luxury I cannot afford at the moment
. This does not say I do not have feelings for him but I also have responsibilities to myself and to my people who depend on me. Probably he would be better off without me too.Tiki33, I hope some day you write a book, which will help more women than just us in this forum.
Wish you all luck guys.
I thought I was the only person that had a limit on what I'd comment on, even in arguments. Its exactly the same, thx, things people can't change is completely off limits.
I also think its the "dating down" problem plus his insecurity, which may or may not be a Cap trait.
Although it is not so much of a "dating down" as he is not an outcast or something. He went to college, has a good job, friends, social life and hobbies. Also I get a lot from him in my situation as I am in a foreigh country, working for an international organisation, do not speak the native language well, do not have much of a social life outside work and colleagues. He helps me learn the language and is patient at that, shows me the life in this country, introduced me to all his friends and family as his gf, to his 7 years old dauther including, who loves me. In short he gives me a sense of normality and makes me feel homey, which is not easy under the circumstances. I`ve never had a problem with him disappearing or not contacting so far.
So, with a couple of days distance I am inclined to reconsider what was a firm decision 3 days ago. This will either lead to a next firm decision after the next fight or to settling down things between two not easy characters.
He has issues, that`s for sure. I have problems envisioning our future together but then from where I stand now in my life I have problems invisioning my distant future in general as my position here is temporary. All this teaches me (what else can I do?) to leave my life day by day and avoid forward planning
Although it is not so much of a "dating down" as he is not an outcast or something. He went to college, has a good job, friends, social life and hobbies. Also I get a lot from him in my situation as I am in a foreigh country, working for an international organisation, do not speak the native language well, do not have much of a social life outside work and colleagues. He helps me learn the language and is patient at that, shows me the life in this country, introduced me to all his friends and family as his gf, to his 7 years old dauther including, who loves me. In short he gives me a sense of normality and makes me feel homey, which is not easy under the circumstances. I`ve never had a problem with him disappearing or not contacting so far.
So, with a couple of days distance I am inclined to reconsider what was a firm decision 3 days ago
. This will either lead to a next firm decision after the next fight or to settling down things between two not easy characters.He has issues, that`s for sure. I have problems envisioning our future together but then from where I stand now in my life I have problems invisioning my distant future in general as my position here is temporary. All this teaches me (what else can I do?) to leave my life day by day and avoid forward planning
Another thing is that I do not really think and, more importantly, FEEl he does not like my body. The statement with breasts is extremely blunt and inconsiderate and he exhibits himself this way from time to time. For me it will be a matter of weighing things out as he also makes me feel good with statements like "I am proud to walk with you on the streets"; "I am honoured and proud to be with you", etc.
Further, he cannot make me feel bad about me or my body, that`s for sure as I know perfectly well what I am worth; I am a middle aged woman after all and have my experience and enough feed back from men
Further, he cannot make me feel bad about me or my body, that`s for sure as I know perfectly well what I am worth; I am a middle aged woman after all and have my experience and enough feed back from men
A funny event last week was when he, his daughter, and I were watching a move on TV and he remarked that an actress looked a bit like me but then his daughter was like: "No, dad she (me) is prettier". I said "At least someone appreciates me in this family" and we laughed. So no, I do not have a general feeling of not being liked.
Asha it's your relationship and you don't have to justify why you're choosing to stay but I will say this, you sound like a person whose making "excuses" for this man's behavior, he clearly is not a good match for you and you'll regret giving this man more chances later down the line, don't say you didn't see the verbal abuse coming at you 1 year from now when it's clear how he speaks to you is mounting up to it, 2 caps have already said in this thread they don't comment on things a person can't fix and his commenting on your breast was in a devaluing you type of way.
Men that are mean/abusive/jerks/douchebags can be stealth at forming subtleties of confusion, he'll behave great and then he'll side swipe you with a verbal attack and then cover it up with something nice so you always stay off balance and he gets to passively but aggressively tear you down without you realizing it. Have you ever heard of the story with the frog boiling in a pot of water.
They say that if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water,
it will leap out right away to escape the danger.
But, if you put a frog in a kettle that is filled with water that is cool and pleasant,
and then you gradually heat the kettle until it starts boiling,
the frog will not become aware of the threat until it is too late.
The frog's survival instincts are geared towards detecting sudden changes.
This is a story that is used to illustrate how people might get themselves into terrible trouble.
This parable is often used to illustrate how humans have to be careful to watch slowly changing trends in the environment, not just the sudden changes. Its a warning to keep us paying attention not just to obvious threats but to more slowly developing ones.
He's gradually but passive aggressively coming at you wrong and you "SEE" him doing this but typically women backpedal and give more chances b/c she doubts herself, feel she can handle it, loneliness and fear drives her motives, his nice "BEHAVIOR" motivates her to keep trying b/c if he was mean all the time you'd get out but since he's nice most of the time and a jerk some of the time you feel you are over reacting and should stick with it.
It's your life, your relationship and your choice...I hope I'm wrong and it's just a matter of working the kinks out but I have a gut feeling you have an undercover douchebag on your hands that "hides" behind the nice guy persona.
Men that are mean/abusive/jerks/douchebags can be stealth at forming subtleties of confusion, he'll behave great and then he'll side swipe you with a verbal attack and then cover it up with something nice so you always stay off balance and he gets to passively but aggressively tear you down without you realizing it. Have you ever heard of the story with the frog boiling in a pot of water.
They say that if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water,
it will leap out right away to escape the danger.
But, if you put a frog in a kettle that is filled with water that is cool and pleasant,
and then you gradually heat the kettle until it starts boiling,
the frog will not become aware of the threat until it is too late.
The frog's survival instincts are geared towards detecting sudden changes.
This is a story that is used to illustrate how people might get themselves into terrible trouble.
This parable is often used to illustrate how humans have to be careful to watch slowly changing trends in the environment, not just the sudden changes. Its a warning to keep us paying attention not just to obvious threats but to more slowly developing ones.
He's gradually but passive aggressively coming at you wrong and you "SEE" him doing this but typically women backpedal and give more chances b/c she doubts herself, feel she can handle it, loneliness and fear drives her motives, his nice "BEHAVIOR" motivates her to keep trying b/c if he was mean all the time you'd get out but since he's nice most of the time and a jerk some of the time you feel you are over reacting and should stick with it.
It's your life, your relationship and your choice...I hope I'm wrong and it's just a matter of working the kinks out but I have a gut feeling you have an undercover douchebag on your hands that "hides" behind the nice guy persona.
Tiki, that was a great post!
Yes, that is a great post of Tiki`s agree.
Tiki,I asked for your opinion and I am very grateful that you and the others were and still are there to comment and advise me. I am not excusing myself for decisions I take but keep you guys posted cuz I asked for your involvment in my issue.
Yes, as you say I SEE the guy clearly, notice signs which worry me and then a ligitimate question is why indeed keep going? Am I one of those week willed women making excuses for men? Good question and I would love to know the answer.
My thoughts: Yes,I see the guy and what I see is far from perfect. But then who`s perfect? And has anyone ever seen this animal: strong, emotionally evolved, respectful, balanced, loving and caring, loyal and yet sexy man? I have not and I have been around and have seen men. What impressed and attracted me to this man initially was the way he treated his mother, daughter and sister. I`d never seen a more devoted and giving father, son and brother (he takes care of his daughter part time on his own). He gets pissed off at times but he would always be there for them. He has many downsides e.g. he`s somewhat insecure, touchy, stubborn and can be inconsiderate, slow, cannot do 2 things simultaneously and panics when circumstances change, not at all flexible, etc, ets. Yet after 6 months I am still not ready with my verdict: is he passively verbally abusive as you suspect or just inconsiderate at times? This is one reason I decided to keep going.
Second reason is I cannot be a perminent victim, I know this from experience that is why I am not afraid to go a bit further down the road to see more. I know how it works with me; at some point I will have enough and then will go;haven`t reached this point with him yet. Do you think we should run at the first bad sign whithout giving any credit? Sometimes I think this may be a better solution but then would not we end up running all our lives without actually attempting a relationship, scared not to get hurt? Life teaches us lessons and you never escape the pain.
Tiki,I asked for your opinion and I am very grateful that you and the others were and still are there to comment and advise me. I am not excusing myself for decisions I take but keep you guys posted cuz I asked for your involvment in my issue.
Yes, as you say I SEE the guy clearly, notice signs which worry me and then a ligitimate question is why indeed keep going? Am I one of those week willed women making excuses for men? Good question and I would love to know the answer.
My thoughts: Yes,I see the guy and what I see is far from perfect. But then who`s perfect? And has anyone ever seen this animal: strong, emotionally evolved, respectful, balanced, loving and caring, loyal and yet sexy man? I have not and I have been around and have seen men. What impressed and attracted me to this man initially was the way he treated his mother, daughter and sister. I`d never seen a more devoted and giving father, son and brother (he takes care of his daughter part time on his own). He gets pissed off at times but he would always be there for them. He has many downsides e.g. he`s somewhat insecure, touchy, stubborn and can be inconsiderate, slow, cannot do 2 things simultaneously and panics when circumstances change, not at all flexible, etc, ets. Yet after 6 months I am still not ready with my verdict: is he passively verbally abusive as you suspect or just inconsiderate at times? This is one reason I decided to keep going.
Second reason is I cannot be a perminent victim, I know this from experience that is why I am not afraid to go a bit further down the road to see more. I know how it works with me; at some point I will have enough and then will go;haven`t reached this point with him yet. Do you think we should run at the first bad sign whithout giving any credit? Sometimes I think this may be a better solution but then would not we end up running all our lives without actually attempting a relationship, scared not to get hurt? Life teaches us lessons and you never escape the pain.
I have gone a long way and I am still going through a painful process of self-understanding and accepting. I had a difficult shildhood with a father who could not control his anger and a victim mather. What happened with this man is very strange, never experienced such a literal projection before: seeing him with his daughter I somewhat saw the father I never had or at least my father in his good moments. There are striking similarities between them but I may be exaggerating. I am curious where this will go.
Finally, I am getting from him what I need at the moment, some balance in life, and I am indulging in it. Anything could hapen in the future but then I will have to adapt (adaptation is my way of life but not my choice)
Finally, I am getting from him what I need at the moment, some balance in life, and I am indulging in it. Anything could hapen in the future but then I will have to adapt (adaptation is my way of life but not my choice
)No one is perfect Asha but if a person is so broken that he's taking his brokenness out on you then you are INVITING mistreatment into your life. Everyone has issues to some degree but a mature healthy minded adult will own his/her shit, they don't go around overtly hurting people nor passively hurting people b/c he/she can get away with it. You appear to be a bit of an enabler and desperate, you act as if you can't do any better than him and maybe right now you can't so I guess you deserve what you get and I hope you decide you deserve better at some point in your life. You appear blinded by this nice guy act he put on with his " mother, daughter and sister. I`d never seen a more devoted and giving father, son and brother" This is blinding you to who he truly is as a person.
You fail to realize that's family, that's HIS blood and your not on equal ground as these people and so you are going to see ANOTHER side of him, the side that's not so loyal and devoted, you are choosing not to see it when it comes to YOU with him, he's clearly shown there is a darker side, a side that is devaluing you and it's leading up to verbal abuse, don't get it TWISTED like so many women do,they get blind sided by the "nice guy persona" that he put on with everyone else and with you when he feel like it and then he's slowly introduces the side that no one gets to see except the girlfriend and another red flag is when he said his ex was insecure and it's clear after being with him any woman would be/feel insecure b/c he's doing it to you too and that's one reason why you came here.
As for running at the first sign, sometimes yes you should, don't be naive, if the person is flawed and not hurting anyone then I feel the odds are better that a relationship can be sustained but when a man is showing signs of being controlling and abusive I suggest women run to the nearest exit unless she's willing to take those battle scars, verbal abuse, being devalued is one of the WORST forms of abuse to recover from, it can literally kill your confidence in yourself and scar you for the rest of your life. You've found another watered down version of your father. I don't believe for a second you are getting what you need b/c you wouldn't have ever come here, so that's another form of excuse making and denial. Adapting is not the way, adapting will get you exploited, learn how to let go and move on to better opportunities.
You fail to realize that's family, that's HIS blood and your not on equal ground as these people and so you are going to see ANOTHER side of him, the side that's not so loyal and devoted, you are choosing not to see it when it comes to YOU with him, he's clearly shown there is a darker side, a side that is devaluing you and it's leading up to verbal abuse, don't get it TWISTED like so many women do,they get blind sided by the "nice guy persona" that he put on with everyone else and with you when he feel like it and then he's slowly introduces the side that no one gets to see except the girlfriend and another red flag is when he said his ex was insecure and it's clear after being with him any woman would be/feel insecure b/c he's doing it to you too and that's one reason why you came here.
As for running at the first sign, sometimes yes you should, don't be naive, if the person is flawed and not hurting anyone then I feel the odds are better that a relationship can be sustained but when a man is showing signs of being controlling and abusive I suggest women run to the nearest exit unless she's willing to take those battle scars, verbal abuse, being devalued is one of the WORST forms of abuse to recover from, it can literally kill your confidence in yourself and scar you for the rest of your life. You've found another watered down version of your father. I don't believe for a second you are getting what you need b/c you wouldn't have ever come here, so that's another form of excuse making and denial. Adapting is not the way, adapting will get you exploited, learn how to let go and move on to better opportunities.
I'm done discussing this b/c I feel I'm beginning to sound like a broken record which makes me appear like I'm trying to convince you of something you are not ready nor willing to embrace so with that being said good luck and keep us updated.
Wow! Wow!
Unbelievable! Tiki, you were more than right!
Spent one nice day yesterday with the guy and his daughter. This afternoon we went for a walk and in the car I strated saying something, which he did not understand (I was trying to say that when someone is yawning others around start doing the same but tried to speak his language, which I do not speak well). He obviously perceived it as criticism and fought back immediately saying in front of his daughter something like "when you speak too much its also like a disease". I was surprised he put me down this way whithout even thinking twice, in front of his daughter, and decided not to take it. Asked him why he said this and he reacted as if he was insulted. Claimed this was a joke and it was my problem I was so touchy and could not digest his jokes. We had an argument and it was me again who tried to explain and melt the ice; he did not even try to appologise and acted as if I ruined his day.
Then things got from bad to worse. We spent a lot of time trying to please his daughter, who fell from her bycicle, then went shopping and back to his place. There he started acting annoyed and making drama of everything: something fell on the ground and he would through it and curse, the central heating was not working and he got so distressed, unbeliavable. He just acted crasy and asked me if I was searching for trouble that evening and if I knew what bad energy meant!! I asked him if he wanted me to go, he said "dont talk nonsence". I was afraid to say or do anything cuz I got really concerned by his behaviour. On top of it his daughter was cranky, talking all the time, interrapting and behaving badly and he just could not handle it. He told her to go to her room, she did not obey and things went out of control. He forced he into her room, she was screaming, then when he came back I told him I`d better leave but went to the toilet first and I think, not sure but I think he spanked her cuz she was crying seriously when I went.
So, that is the end of the story! "Run the nearest exit" said Tiki and was sooo right!!
Unbelievable! Tiki, you were more than right!
Spent one nice day yesterday with the guy and his daughter. This afternoon we went for a walk and in the car I strated saying something, which he did not understand (I was trying to say that when someone is yawning others around start doing the same but tried to speak his language, which I do not speak well). He obviously perceived it as criticism and fought back immediately saying in front of his daughter something like "when you speak too much its also like a disease". I was surprised he put me down this way whithout even thinking twice, in front of his daughter, and decided not to take it. Asked him why he said this and he reacted as if he was insulted. Claimed this was a joke and it was my problem I was so touchy and could not digest his jokes. We had an argument and it was me again who tried to explain and melt the ice; he did not even try to appologise and acted as if I ruined his day.
Then things got from bad to worse. We spent a lot of time trying to please his daughter, who fell from her bycicle, then went shopping and back to his place. There he started acting annoyed and making drama of everything: something fell on the ground and he would through it and curse, the central heating was not working and he got so distressed, unbeliavable. He just acted crasy and asked me if I was searching for trouble that evening and if I knew what bad energy meant!! I asked him if he wanted me to go, he said "dont talk nonsence". I was afraid to say or do anything cuz I got really concerned by his behaviour. On top of it his daughter was cranky, talking all the time, interrapting and behaving badly and he just could not handle it. He told her to go to her room, she did not obey and things went out of control. He forced he into her room, she was screaming, then when he came back I told him I`d better leave but went to the toilet first and I think, not sure but I think he spanked her cuz she was crying seriously when I went.
So, that is the end of the story! "Run the nearest exit" said Tiki and was sooo right!!
Someting else, that was exactly my father`s behaviour but he was worse because he was really cruel. I remembered so clearly all the horror and distress I used to live with as a child. This evening I became the horrified child I once was...
I wrote before I read your post Tiki, so again, you were soooo right!
Thank you!
Thank you!
LOL
undercover asshole is a disease too and I don't see him doing anything about that outside of taking it out on asha and his daughter...
undercover asshole is a disease too and I don't see him doing anything about that outside of taking it out on asha and his daughter...
Lost in translation? What you mean?
No, it was not like that. His first language is French but he speaks perfect English too; it was not a language issue. The issue is he does not think twice before making downgrading jokes but you cannot do it with him. Second issue is he would never say "sorry if I made you feel bad"; he would rather break it all off. Third and most alarming is how he handles difficult situations. He just cannot! He`s becoming hysterical and is blaming everything outside him for the problem. He is anythihg but cool when situations becomes complicated.
Elle is the Queen of excuse making for men LOL, it amuses me (I don't know why)
Asha you understood him correctly, DON'T DOUBT yourself and although I suggested you leave inevitably it's your choice but you now see his "good guy" act around others/family is just that "an act" so it's up to you decide if you can deal with this jekyll/hyde persona and still be able to stay in your lane and not take it on as if it's your job to fix the relationship/fix him, his personality can't be fixed, he is who he is and if he's complicated and hysterical and mean/surly/jerk then that's who he will always be and it won't get better so don't even try to make it better b/c you'll only end up jumping through hoops all the while losing yourself in the interim so decide how far you are willing to go and how much you are willing to take before getting out b/c inevitably you will have to leave, I definitely feel you can do so much better with someone that's real and more authentic and consistent with or without an audience, I'm very weary of men that put on airs around others only to act like a complete jerk behind closed doors, those are your typical narcissist/sociopath/personality disordered men.
Asha you understood him correctly, DON'T DOUBT yourself and although I suggested you leave inevitably it's your choice but you now see his "good guy" act around others/family is just that "an act" so it's up to you decide if you can deal with this jekyll/hyde persona and still be able to stay in your lane and not take it on as if it's your job to fix the relationship/fix him, his personality can't be fixed, he is who he is and if he's complicated and hysterical and mean/surly/jerk then that's who he will always be and it won't get better so don't even try to make it better b/c you'll only end up jumping through hoops all the while losing yourself in the interim so decide how far you are willing to go and how much you are willing to take before getting out b/c inevitably you will have to leave, I definitely feel you can do so much better with someone that's real and more authentic and consistent with or without an audience, I'm very weary of men that put on airs around others only to act like a complete jerk behind closed doors, those are your typical narcissist/sociopath/personality disordered men.
Well, his only value for me was how he treated me in the beginning. He was calling, there, affectionate, passionate, gentle .. at first. I took him for a good guy. But what is going on lately is just...unbelievable. You said it Tiki, "jekyll/hyde persona".
This evening I was shocked and I stil am. I am shaked actually. This officially is my worst relationship ever. I am OUT of it and that`s it.
This evening I was shocked and I stil am. I am shaked actually. This officially is my worst relationship ever. I am OUT of it and that`s it.
Sideways compliments are the worst kind. Well, you both have baggage and that's life. If you guys are gonna work it out you have to be sensitive with each other's insecurities while also actively trying to correct them. That shit takes time so you need to present your case. I would discuss an action plan without getting too emotional. Bring logic back into the equation. If he seems unwilling to hear you out, and rejects every attempt to compromise, then you have your answer.
Asha, reading your previous posts, it sounds like you want this guy but you don't know how to "handle" him so that you can get what you want from him. So when you say:
Good. Don't look back.
Posted by asha
I am OUT of it and that`s it.
Good. Don't look back.
Sorry correction is for mothers...If a man doesn't naturally KNOW how to treat a woman then he never will know until he's corrected himself.
I agree don't look back and if he pulls you back in claiming change, expect him to stick to his word that he's going to change, the moment he doesn't don't make excuses for his behavior instead opt out and move on.
I agree don't look back and if he pulls you back in claiming change, expect him to stick to his word that he's going to change, the moment he doesn't don't make excuses for his behavior instead opt out and move on.
"Well, you both have baggage and that's life. If you guys are gonna work it out you have to be sensitive with each other's insecurities while also actively trying to correct them."
Ninjami, I am the only one who knows my issues and insecurities. I haven`t noticed he`s aware of his; all he`s learned from his marriage is that he should avoid "insecure women" in the future. ?!
And no, he would not listen to anything that sounds like a criticism or complaint.
Ilyb, Tiki is not judgemental. I am definitely not aggressive and I would not even call myself assertive but I cannot not react when feel undervalued and not respected. Did you not read my latest post? Are all Cap male unable to manage difficult situations and panic so easily?
Ninjami, I am the only one who knows my issues and insecurities. I haven`t noticed he`s aware of his; all he`s learned from his marriage is that he should avoid "insecure women" in the future. ?!
And no, he would not listen to anything that sounds like a criticism or complaint.
Ilyb, Tiki is not judgemental. I am definitely not aggressive and I would not even call myself assertive but I cannot not react when feel undervalued and not respected. Did you not read my latest post? Are all Cap male unable to manage difficult situations and panic so easily?
Pathfinder, are you saying someone could "handle" him better?
Huh? I didn't introduce a third party into my comment.
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