Leo, Trust & pisces

This topic was created in the Leo forum by Amber75 on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 and has 102 replies.
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For over six months now I have known the leo. Went through quite tough difficult situations with him, meeting his ex, had an accident....You get to know a person quite faster through the difficulties I think, than when it's all 'sunshine and rainbows" - as he got to know me as a strong person, an anchor (and he told me so).
We had this strong connection when being together, now we're at a distance, at least temporarily, and HE made the effort to stay in regular contact since. In the six weeks apart, I have had three quite emotional reactions towards him, all of them being triggered by alcohol and having 'missing him' at the core.
Now, he HAS seen me in hard times before and now I can handle them without any of that, but stay clear headed and strong.
Iam afraid now that my last emotional outbreak drove hime away for good. Can a Leo forgive that?
Here is what happened and the last exchange:
Had a couple of beers with with friends on Sunday and too light a meal. Was very tipsy when I got home. Reached him at work, he couldn't talk, I insisted with calling back and back. He at some point hung up, I called again. Later tried that again in the evening. My emotions went overboard.
On Monday morning sent a a mail: "I know for myself that overly emotional people rub me the wrong way so I get that you are angry.

I apologize for yesterday evening.
My emotions got the better of me; was very sensitive since not only got my period, which affects my hormones for a 3, 4 days, but also learned that my grandma is in the hospital. On top of that 'the grey place' is really stressing me. I do miss you, want to see and relax with you."
I don't know if he has read it yet. He has a good friend visiting him right now and since Sunday evening.
And this evening he texted: "I think u should try to control drinking for your own good in the same way I told you about the smoking. You are doing bad to yourself. Now about us I can tell you that the situation has become sick, I don't like hanging up on people and to do so it means I have no choice. I don't know what your problem is and I don't want to know yours, the ones I have myself are enough. I had a problematic relation before and I don't need another, also I believe u should try to control ur emotions cos this will put you in trouble in the furture. iam sorry P."
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I answered (about 2hrs later):
"You are right about the smoking - not the beer though because I do care for my health. I had some beer with friends and a very light lunch. This will not happen again, I learned my lesson! Now, you have seen me face to face over a long enough period to know I'm responsible. Don't be fooled by my reaction from a distance: much simply comes from my impatience and from really missing you. I can handle a lot of stress, head straight on my shoulders, you have seen it for yourself. Always strive to give my best. I apologize. I care for you"
Him (Straight away): "Well, Iam sorry to say this to u but I don't want to continue this with you and when i have the chance to talk I'll explain myself better. In any case as I said before, u have to learn to control your reactions cos this will only cause trouble in any future relation. Take care."
I hear Leos are good hearted. Maybe I hurt his ego, maybe his ego is even hurt.
Will a Leo come around when you just let him be for a while? He knows my strength form having seen it, but doesn't everyone have the right to 'crack' sometimes and under stress? (I know I cried and begged on the phone...)
I have lately stayed at his place for four weeks, he has seen how I function, has seen what Iam made of, morning to evening. I get that he is suprised by my reaction now, but will he remember what he knows from me before? Can I gain his trust again?
Iam a pisces, very very sensitive, but my rising is Leo and my venus in aries. Him, I don't know.
We always had strong and open communication, he much appreciated me being cool headed and very straightforward. That I was also his best friend. Is all this lost now?

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"Anyway, you shouldn't worry about his bruised ego..who cares..he'll get over it fast enough. Instead you should be worried about his seemingly unrealistic expectations and his impatience with you.
Don't jump to conclusions too fast, all might not be lost but have a good talk with him and make sure he's willing to at least meet you half way.."
Wow, bruised ego and HE's being unrealistic? Such assumptions and I know you don't know the full story as I do but
I really resent these kinds of posts that don't tell the truth and want all the blame to be on the guy.
Look Amber, the problem started a long time ago. He was honest with you and told you he didn't love you.
You chose to look the other way when he was only visiting your city to be with another woman who he wouldn't leave but still
got to be with you at the same time. I think now he's finally realizing how unhealthy this is and you're going into
obsessive/stalker mode. Don't do this to yourself. You deserve better.
Don't misconstrue the events and leave out the pertinent parts of which I've pointed out numerous times.
It's just sad that you haven't taken anything I've said to heart nor do you hear him.
Is it stubbornness or delusion? Why do this to yourself?
Aw, anyway...I wish you the best.
Peace out.
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Let me clear up the facts:
He DID leave that woman when he was in my country for 5 months, took time but he did it. I also knew about the other: after all he came to a strange country to have a chance with her, It did not work out, he tried to under stand her...and in the meantime WE became friends. He didn't want to pull me in deeper before he finished things up, but it happened. Until I didn't accept it and that made up his mind. He broke it off. To be with me.
He stayed with me. Asked me to come, to strat from scartch. I made him understand that there was no 'scratch', after all we went through that period together, how to forget! Two times I broke it off, finally decided to see him - to see what he was made of.After me having sepnd a good months at his place, where we really got to know each other. One misfortune after the other: his colleague could not replace him, because she had no one to care for her kid, so he had to work her shift too. Freezing weather. Then after one week I had a bad scooter accident. He was there, always.He asked me to stay, I stayed a week more.
Then I went back. A good deal of hospital time (outpatient) for me. He skyped EVERY day. Always worried about the wounds, about me, regretted he could not be there.
Then - that was the second time - I got verquite pushy and that was when he said he was not in love with me. At that time he was under a lot of stress already because that woman from before flew for 5 hrs to see him, make up with him and suprised him at work, he didn't know she was coming. It is also a chaotic period because he will lose his business, thinks about what's next and also has a big other issue linked to his work. Then I come and push, and insist, and push again....
Then...
The morning after the 'incident' I called his best friend, who is also now one of mine, quite a lot older, wiser and who knows him. Him he was surprised about me reacting this way, because clearly the leo loved me. What, I didn't know! Well apparently they talked. He had told him. He apparently also complained about my pushyness. I didn't believe it. Anyway, it was AFTER the incident. AFTER I received the Leo's texts. So it doesn't matter.
They only spoke on the phone, since he is still in his country (not mine, but Italy) but he is going to go to where the leo is to help out with the business for some months as he does every year - he is the co-owner.
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Iam very aware now why I pushed: need to be reassured, under a lot of stress myself. Iam working on that.
Iam not trying to put the blame on me - you should see me when I pushed him, bad!
My friend and colleagues know me as a very strong, cool headed person, and I do think Iam. it's the fear of losing someone that 'gets me'. I could not been more open with you...
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I reread all of you and guys and hear you - my confidence clearly went down a good notch.
I will certainly not stalk him.
Jonleo, his behaviour when he was in my town was clearly confusing and not right, and I finally managed to tell him so, clearly stated what I wanted out of a man! He asked me to give him the chance and have the opportunity to make amends, to stay with him and see for myself who he was.
The impression I got when being there was strong. He opened up to me more, continued to let me in on his life, had nothing to hide, made me met his very best friends.
I also never felt so cared for, so understood and protected. We talked a lot, never avoided difficult subjects, both of us.
Him and me both wanted not only a lover, but a friend in the other. I felt so right.
That period with him, I haven't talked much about, but here it is, I went there with my eyes wide open, being still burned form the previous period. My judgement may a a little clouded NOW from self doubts and make me have excessive reactions from the fear of losing, but that time should still count for something. While I worried at times, he ALWAYS and on a constant basis contacted me since I have been back, that is, until I went overboard...
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You really have to ask yourself why you need so much reassurance and why you went overboard. A solid relationship won't waiver just because someone doesn't text/call back right away.
When I'm in love, I feel it deep in my soul. The connection is so real & strong, I can taste it.
Don't make excuses for what is lacking. The greatest lesson in love is to learn how to see clearly through
the muddy waters of emotions. You have to learn how to discern on what level your relationship is on and act accordingly. If you're more in love than him, then you need to act cool. Let him come to you.
Also, I wouldn't be talking to his friend too much. Don't rely on what he says. It only matters how your guy treats
you directly. I'd resent a girl doing that and think she was desperate which is a big turn-off.
You've heard of Leo pride? It extends to those we know too so anyone who shows no pride is very unappealing to us.
That's what turned him off plus no man wants a woman suffering so clearly when you feel you've been upfront with her and treated her well. You're actually saying that all the nice things he's done for you now means nothing. A guy will get frustrated and throw up his hands and be done with it. We like to know we please you too but if you're always depressed, need reassurance, we feel like a failure. And at this point (from what you've said about his business, stress), there's only so much he has to give.
Idk, am I making any sense here? lol.

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Aw, Amber sweetie, I'm so sorry you're going through a tough time. This is Jon's wife.
I just wanted to give you another insight. I have a lot of water in my chart so I've 'dumped' it all over guys in the past when I was feeling especially emotional & sentimental and was always surprised at their reaction which was anger instead of what I was looking for (support, reassurance). Big lesson for me! Men feel responsible for our happiness if they care about us so it hurts them to the core. And we have to remember, men aren't our girlfriends who know who to deal with emotions as well as women. Instead of sympathizing, they want to provide solutions to our problems. So, if you have an issue with him, think about it and put it into logical terms before you present it to him. You have to stop yourself and figure out if it's just you or something that really needs to be discussed. Having to put it into a concrete, logical format will help you decide.
Drunk dialing A BIG NO NO!
A story: A few months into our relationship, Jon was opening a restaurant. Just before opening night we got into a huge fight! I had to be there too because I was involved so I managed to put it aside until later and be professional. I can't tell you how he admired me for that. That's where loyalty comes in. I showed respect for his hard work and proved to him this was only a fight and our love was bigger than it. He wants to know you'll stick with him through good & bad. That's loyalty. Now, if he's a total jerk, dump him by all means. But true love forces you outside of yourself to where you sometimes put aside your needs for another and the good of the relationship. It shows you aren't selfish and care more about you as a whole and not just your emotional insecurities.
In your case, because this is a long distance relationship, be his cheerleader, wise yoda, sweet, strong woman he can't do without. He'll not only want you but need you in his life.
When you dump all your 'water' on a fire sign, uh, guess what happens?

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Donna: wow! It's been a long time and it does me good to hear from you.
you are right. When I had the the accident and called hime to drive me to the hospital I was very collected all the way through - stitching included. There were other situations like that and he openly admired me for my logic and cool head, having my facts straight.
Now it happened: I put a lot of water on the fire...Sad

I think I HAVE been "his cheerleader, wise yoda, sweet, strong woman he can't do without before ". Even after one small fight via skype he said:"maybe you don't believe it now, but I miss you" (that was just over a week ago) no But now...does he really want to end it? (well ok, he did, for now) Do I tell him he has also grown on me as a friend and not to give up on that, try to keep communication lines open like that?
I really do want to put the issue into logical terms and make him understand Iam solid and strong and that he can count on me, no matter what - but: since he has sent both messages and communication is zero now, shall I wait for him to contact me or just let him be for a week or so and send my thoughts?
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Splitnconfused:I know the saying, it's so strong! You are also very right and I have in the past separated from people who did what I did. So I understand I turned him off.
I did not answer his second text, so if I don't, he knows Iam accepting it, setting him free.
I just don't want to leave him with that last impression - want to clearly state that Iam working on my impatience, my insecurities, that he CAN count on me. Like one positive drop before he makes up his mind definitively.
And my backround is: since the'love triangle thing' I went to see an analyst, a guy my age which is cool and whom i completely trust. So it's not only words, I AM working on these things, Ive been honest with you guys and with him. The Leo by the way knows Iam seeing him, just not exactly what for. Iam glad I do, wish I had done so sooner and things have gotten better, but I'm not perfect yet. Still: don't want to lose the Leo on the way!
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Jonleo: You are making sense, a lot! And I did and do take to heart what you are saying.
I did not talk to his friend since the texts came...so when they talk next week and his friend doesn't know the last events, the Leo will know that I stopped that.We anyway just talked twice and both times also about other things (the guy's own relation, decorating....).
I think I may be more in love, so I will try to cool down. I did not know that he may feel now "that all the nice things he's done for you now means nothing", o god! Precious insight. Think you are right again: he got frustrated, threw up his hands.
On the other hand, no, I was not depressed or needy either here or when I came to see him. He also knew I listen to him a lot, and even though I don't always agree and we can still discuss it. He knows he makes me lough when e.g. skyping after a hard day (but I was not depressed!) I said "you're the first person who managed to get a smile out of me". there are other examples where he saw that his efforts were well appreciated! (just one example: we planted a huge garden together while I was at his place and each time he showed me the progress since, I told him so)

Do you think there may be any chance he may come back? Don't I make any move?
It's also his birthday on august 2nd....and letting this go by without a friendly, light "Happy Birthday" seems very hard.
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OMG, he just 2 hrs ago posted a sex video on his wall: http://www.lessza.info/ - he seems to have found it online, I haven't played it, the start image shows the back of a woman with her a.. in a string.
He added his text: "She his them back soo hard, revenge is sweet!"
http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCqTNswOMayQ_k9&w=90&h=90&url=http% 3A www.lessza.info images share.jpg
He never posted stuff like that! Usually it's about much more intellectual and worth the thought.
Makes me feel very nauseous!

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I had to read the other thread about how to make him love you. The fact is, you can't, no one can or they'd be selling it! Winking
I totally get that how you guys started things were f'ed up and of course it would make you insecure. BUT! Pull back and look at this realistically. Here's a guy who met you what was it? 6months before and he never contacted you. He makes the trip to meet some other women in your city (how long was he with her before he decided they didn't get along?) and THEN he calls you when things aren't going well. He tells you he doesn't like her and sleeps with you but doesn't leave her to move in with you for the remaining time. What kind of guy is this? It's weird, c'mon. I just have this feeling this guy, when he has time, is on the net meeting women or is just charming & nice to women, enjoys what happens but doesn't commit. I mean, if you traveled to meet someone that's a pretty big deal, right? You don't travel and spend that much time without some effort and something there. Idk, just thinking out loud here but something isn't sitting right.
"I love you but I'm not IN love with you."
Ugh. He's keeping you at arm's length. I don't know why, but he needs time or is just stringing you along.
Personally, I believe you should be yourself but that means leaving him. Know thyself and honor it! He may never be what you need emotionally. Leo's are not always romantic. You may have emotional needs he can never fulfill.
Give him time to let things sink in and for you to process what Jon brought up about why you feel the way you do. Boil it down to the basics so if/when he contacts you, you can express it clearly.
Try to come from a place of choosing who is best for you rather than pleading because you've practically begged this guy and it does make you seem desperate. Words won't change that. Only your actions. So act with self respect because this is YOUR life and you don't want to spend it with the wrong guy. How can he be possibly wrong you ask? Because, it's not meshing, you're insecure and he's not sure about you. If you do have something, be brave enough to trust it which means DON'T CONTACT HIM! Don't do an oops text or anything! Prove your sense of pride, self respect and what you think you have with him by letting him be. Actions, girl. Remember, if he wants you, he'll swim through croc infested waters for you.
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^^^Oops, I posted under jonleo by accident. Should be donna88.
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Posted by Amber75
OMG, he just 2 hrs ago posted a sex video on his wall: http://www.lessza.info/ - he seems to have found it online, I haven't played it, the start image shows the back of a woman with her a.. in a string.
He added his text: "She his them back soo hard, revenge is sweet!"
http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCqTNswOMayQ_k9&w=90&h=90&url=http% 3A www.lessza.info images share.jpg
He never posted stuff like that! Usually it's about much more intellectual and worth the thought.
Makes me feel very nauseous!




Oh boy. Now you're getting the real him. Doesn't seem too torn up.
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Ok I will lay low.
As to the post he put on his wall...a childhood friend is staying with him so he is not alone. With work and his friend, he has no time to think much. He usually can only concentrate on one thing at a time, even if he is a good organizer.
I have never ever seen a post remotely like that on his wall! had the thought that maybe it's some sort of provocation...i've not contacted him for three days now and just maybe he thinks this will make me react. I won't. My pride is coming back a little, thanks to you all!!
When his older friend/ F., comes next week/ Monday, the co-owner (he has his own place), I know they will talk. The leo much trusts him, he's kind of a fatherfigure to him, and I know F. understands me well and doesn't think 'my sideslips' question my strenghts as a whole (hope you know what I mean), so there is a small hope there. Of course the leo has to make up his own mind and I will let him.
In the meantime I'll try to get back up from the low. It's hard. I miss our straightforward talks, miss him physically and keep fighting to even think of him and be drawn into a black hole. But I feel like I'm worth nothing, at least right now. Tomorrow will probably be better, and the day after...but first unfortunately I have to deal with here and now.
all your support means much to me. I feel a bit guilty to weigh so heavily right now on you

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how much time shall i give him to let things sink in? A week, two? Iam lost here
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Donna, I reread you post: When I initially met him he thought I was a bit nuts, saw him only twice and then started ???chasing?? him??_.The relation with the woman went sour after a few days (she yelled, called names on a daily basis) and he contacted me after a few weeks of that. He now knows he should have left then and there. He still tried to understand her, make things work with her, but it didn??t.
He moved in with me in the end.
I don??t believe he is on the net for women, he doesn??t need to, they come to the place he works. That??s how he met the woman and me.
I broke it off once imagining and reproaching him exactly that: his life style made with out of a lot of fun relations and he freely admitted later that was exactly the way it was, before his three year relationship that ended last year, but that he was getting tired and felt changes. That he wanted a partner, a family (???look I??m 34 now, I don??t even have a job for next year, no family??_??). He was very down when we had that talk and I believe he was honest. I had told him before that I did not want a family now so he didn??t say that to please me. If he was lying then, he deserves an oscar!
"I love you but I'm not IN love with you.?? I know he has been burned badly in the 3 year relationship. That??s why I think he needs time. I rushed things. I also know now that the girl had ???substance?? problems (I don??t know if it was drinking or..) and was very unstable.
Iam very stable, unless my confidence is shaken, and am not attracted by alcohol at all, but it still happened 2 or three times in the past six months and then I called him, being not sober at all...
My insecurities I work on with the analyst. It??s been a burden for long so I want to take care and get rid of it. I get that fear of losing simply when calling my mum or a friend and they??re not home when they usually are, of course it??s just a the early stages of that fear, but still I??d re-dial and not feel assured until I get them. Grew up without a father, that seems to be the source.
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I didn??t have that fear AT ALL when I was at his place, even when everything was not rose-coloured. He was not by my side all the time, had to work, but I did my own things.
He somehow still made me feel very protected, even when not being there or being romantic.
I really hope he contacts me and I get that chance
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QUOTE: "Him (Straight away): "Well, Iam sorry to say this to u but I don't want to continue this with you and when i have the chance to talk I'll explain myself better. In any case as I said before, u have to learn to control your reactions cos this will only cause trouble in any future relation. Take care."
So he hasn't contacted you yet to explain things?
I really think he's done with this. Don't do anything! Even if it's a week or more. He knows you want him. The ball is in his court and if he truly wants you, he will let you know.
It's hard to deal with but the sooner you move on, the better it will be.
Keep working with your therapist to overcome the insecurities that plague your relationships. Calling him won't change his mind, no matter how much you explain things. When someone keeps doing the same thing yet says it isn't what they 'normally' do just won't be believed. Put the shoe on the other foot, if a guy cheated on you repeatedly but cried and pleaded with you that he doesn't 'normally' do this, will you still believe him when he keeps doing it?
I highly doubt his friend has his facebook account password and would post on his account. Don't make excuses for this guy, see him for who he is.
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No Donna, he hasn't contacted me yet but I really think it's early (the calling was last sunday), he his quite 'slow', needs his time in many thinks, wants to think things through (he told me that about other things and I have actually seen it)and also - with the 7/7 job and his friend at his house I don't believe he has actually had that time. I wasn't expecting anything before next week or the one after (also depending of how long his friend stays).
I haven't sent anything. Just tried to take care of my own self as good as possible and giving my best at work.
My hope is he forgives me and keeps in touch. Bit by bit the trust hopefully comes back. All this on the basis of all difficult situation ha HAS seen me handle with a cool head. Also the six months of something growing between us. The regular contact, HE made the effort to stay in touch. Hopefully he misses his cheerleader.
He did and also did not cheat at the time - I accepted that while he was not completely done with the other, to be intimate. My mistake.
About facebook: I agree and no, don't think his friend has posted it; but that he probably IS an influence, especially right now.
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oups, sorry, I misunderstood "if a guy cheated on you repeatedly but cried and pleaded with you that he doesn't 'normally' do this, will you still believe him when he keeps doing it?" - yes, of course, the answer is I wouldn't.
On the other hand I took action care, and work on these "slips" with a therapist.

Also, I'm so sorry I haven't been able to tell him before that I love him.
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Amber. Leave him alone. I remember when you first started posting about this, and it's the same thing over and over. You only want to hear what you want to hear, but that won't make you happy. YOU are giving this guy too much power. You don't know him that well. Back off for real. Even if he calls again, stay far away. He's showing some bad signs. Be happy you've seen this early and not when it's too late. YOU have the key to your peace of mind. This isn't a good relationship for you. Be kind to yourself and let it, and all of the frustration that come along with it, go.
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Mebs, I've been posting in times when I was in need of advise, opinions....that were obviously the difficult ones.
What about the rest? As as said, when I went to see him I was quite worn out by the previous drama, and my eyes were wide open. What I saw there was good.
And that's coming from me having finally slept a good night!
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Once you do something a Leo male does not like the royal King turns his nose up at you, gets on his high horse and rides away into the sunset. It will take awhile before he realizes that the horse he was riding on was really a donkey (a $ $ ).
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He's probably still on the horse...
WTF, now that I just got a bit of my calm back, just received his text: "I hope you're ok P."
Do I answer?
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Iam listening thirdeye and my warning signs ARE 'on' now.
But also, don't forget they way I behaved - meaning, calling him a huge number of times (even ashamed to say how many) WHILE he was working at work (being 'under influence'). This I did 2/3 times ofer the last 6 weeks and was 'so far' I can't even recall the conversations.....
He was not happy the first times and explained why he couldn't answer the phone then and there and suggested to call later, but I still insisted.
He bent for me and still showed understanding, now it got him 'over the top' and I became a stressfactor in his already chaotic life.
No to put the blame on me, but that's facts from MY side of behaviour, too.

It's only been a week, I'll see if there is more to come - when/if he misses me and makes a real effort.
I also feel finally a bit stronger and don't intend to lose that again.
I'll try not to answer the text message he sent.
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A friend just told me that her cousin had the same video on her fb wall, and she definitively did not put it there. So it seems he's innocent on that.
I get the feeling I destroyed the whole thing with my doubts and my fears...until it was just too much for him.
I know he probabably expected me lo lash out at him, make numerous angry calls...it would have justified his decision.
A good week now, and I still haven't contacted him or replied to his texts.
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@ Amber75 .. May I give u a little advice.. Although Im not quite sure about the whole situation however as for what I read so far.. U seem to be quite pushy .. Theres a huge difference between supporting ur partner and pushing him away.. Well obviously ur are slowly pushing away.. Ur constant calls, drunking text messages.. calling him at work when he tells u that he is busy etc.. Ur Leo is not doing good right now.. Hes about to loose his business.. THat is a huge deal for a Leo.. It means Failure .. Which all Leos could voushe that Failure is a huge no no for a Leo .. So as a Leo man he cannot deliver to his manly role .. instead u shud be somewhat supporting him by telling him.. If theres anything I cud do lemme know, Dont hesitate him hear to help you through this if u want me too.. Chances are he might not ask u for help because again as a Leo our pride gets into the mix of reaching out for help.. But it doesnt matter, the fact that he knows ur there is good enough for him.. Instead ur making matters very difficult for him.. Meaning that ur adding another burdon onto his plate.. Which he doesnt need right now.. If u continue doing what u are doing.. Chances are u will loose him .. He doesnt need more stress.. Be mature. stop the drunkung text messages and the constant need for reassure at the moment.. Right now.. He needs your support not the other way around.. For the time being .. But If he overcome his business issues one day and continues to act this way.. Well then I wud say .. Leave his Leo ass lol but for now be supportive ..
Donna88 Couldnt have said it better .. WinkingAs for the text message he sent u .. Its a good thing.. Maybe he noticed that u calmed down.. If u want to reply.. Keep it short and sweet .. No crazy drama reponce.. Say something like.. Hey ive been good thx.. Hope everything is going well with u and the business.. THATS IT ... lay off the nagging him .. Thats one thing I cont stand as a Leo.. But thats just me Winking
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Posted by Jessica777
If u continue doing what u are doing.. Chances are u will loose him .. )


Jessica, thank you for your feedback. I completely agree with the pushing of course, and by now and thanks to the insights from all of you, understand way better now the way all this might make him feel - but it's too late now. So Iam surprised: have you read both texts he sent? I got the feeling that I already HAVE lost him.

The last text seems somehow compassionate. I think he expected anger, phonecalls...it would more justify his choice. I kept quiet and took a step back. It's 10 days only, I don't believe he really knows what's going on, not so sure he thinks I'm calm.
I now wonder if I should really send a short message...or just let him approach me if he wants to.
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His italien friend just texted me telling me that the Leo doesn't listen to him concerning me.
I listened to you all and took a step back in the meantime. Have my feet more on the ground than ever in the previous month. I really feel now the leo by himself has to come to miss me or/and (as he indicated himself) contact me to 'explain better', that he will not react to any pushing from anyone.
Still, and in case he doesn't contact me, I have started to write down in logic terms what happened. The tone is overall firm and clear. About one page, which is not pushy, basically explaining that the cumulated tension from accident and its consequences plus 'missing him' lead to the calls; also that even the strongest person should be allowed mistakes.
Kind of thoughts I feel I have to communicate, because it's on my heart and a sore spot, just in case he doesn't contact me in the next two weeks or so.
Should I send it before - before he doesn't definitevely move on?
Part of me just wants to trust in what we have and let him come.
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So in the end I haven't send anything yet - and I do think that's good so far.

Still, it's his birthday on Tuesday 2nd and I was thinking of texting him a very simple 'Happy birthday', after all I haven't even responded to his 'Hope you are ok' yet....good idea, what do you think?
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Anyone? smile
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Iam sorry to keep posting, but I definitively want to put the chances on my side in case there is hope.
So I think I will post him a simple 'happy birthday' -
By the way also a happy birthday and all the very best to all Leos out there who have been willing to give their opinion on this!
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Ok, did send the sms - no news but I didn't expect any, maybe he'll repond later...
I forgot to mention that he hasn't deleted me from his fb account, a good sign?
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Wow! You've come a long way! You seemed to have calmed yourself! That's great! I hope he responds. Maybe he's thinking of what to say because Leo's are polite we'll say "Thank You" straight away. I hope you guys can build a healthy friendship and something flourishes from there; when you BOTH are ready. GL!
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Thank you for the good luck wishes LeGal! I feel I will need it!
Have indeed calmed down and that was necessary. My feelings for him are still intact though. I have not heard from him since I send the birthday wishes. You're absolutely right: he IS very polite usually!
3 weeks without any conversation (if you don't count his 'hope u are ok P.), we never went without contact for more than 2,3 days....for the past 6 months, I miss my friend.
I think in the same lines as you: get back to our basis of friendsip and then take it really, really slow.
But it's going to be hard: his business partner and long year friend gave me an update. He's there to help with the business for a month or so and this year, as planned, to withdraw ownership and his participation from the company. I trust him completely, he's always talked straight with me, even if painful. He's known the leo for ages and I know the Leo respects him. The Leo introduced us at the beginning of the year and we connected really well. We talked a lot, and about quite a lot of other subjects than the Leo.
So....apparently the leo has a strange behaviour now, very unlike him and that in all the years his friend has never seen: he is attacking, fighting with everyone now, his family, coll?agues, even his business partner, being 'arrogant' and near hysterical.
He is also drowning his problems in sex, F...with near every woman who passes by at his working place.

I already knew the losing of the business, the uncertain future was hard on the Leo, he told me about that himself. When I was there, with him, he included me in his future: 'theres that and now there is also you'. I know he was not happy with his life, losing what he constructed, not even having a family. I think maybe he's not well underneath.
What is going on? Is he evacuating his stress, is it the fact he doesn't have me to talk to anymore? (he always told me I was his anchor), is it vengeance (because he knows his friend and I are in contact and I'll know)?
I'd be grateful for your thoughts on this!
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I had some things to get off my chest - so I sent him this yesterday....including some thoughts you gave me on the way and that stuck....

People hide so much these days. I guess it looks strange when someone keeps it real.

Paris was hard. I was there for during your tough times.
Chose to believe in the good of you DESPITE of what I saw - someone mixed up and all your actions that went with it. I put up with quite some B.S. A real rollercoaster ride.

Then I come to see you.
Tough again: the weather, not a day you could take off, then you getting sick, the accident,
and that after I couldn??t even move freely. I dealt with all ??? and well. Enjoyed myself.
Started to feel at home, safe, warm ??? you did that for me. It felt just right, so natural.
I like my independence, my freedom of thought and action and you always let me be my own freespirited self. You made me really happy, by the way.

Then I come back and THEN I deal with the consequences of the accident 24/24, you know
the details. As a result I had very little sleep for over a month and was worn out by the pain.
Then your ex appears, you tell me at distance. I very much wanted to support you then -

Before the ankle was even completely ok I restart working. Non Stop. Striving to give my
best. Took all the pressure. My grandma not being well. Still taking care of the foot in the meantime, discipline, everyday. Couldn??t even do any sports to shake the tension off.
I don??t believe someone who was not solid and wholesome could have gone through
that situation so consequently.


I was very much looking forward to just having a simple, nice time with you, go slow.
Finally going to that beach. Just enjoy, relax and taking it easy!


In the meantime I ???go overboard?? 2 or three times, my reaction basically just stemming from healthy human emotions, missing you, the distance not being easy, mixed up with a lot
of tension from the results of above.
You really got to know me as a strong, solid person. Of course I have a side with doubts and insecurities. I get that once I showed you my vulnerable side you freaked out and
had no idea how to handle it, got frustrated and chose to throw your hands up,
and 99,9% of P. away, because you didn??t like the 0,1% you saw, your life being
pretty chaotic already. But I didn??t commit a crime, basically just made a fool of myself.
We all make mistakes.

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Iam in very good control of my emotions and actions.
Yes, since my grandfather died I had this insecurity/impatience come up sometimes at very stressful times, but I took action straight away, facing it, and am resolving that with Thomas. Believe me, I respect myself enough to take very good care of myself, carry my own.
I like my life simple.

Also, you know that one? ??_:"To lose balance sometimes for love is part of living a balanced life." [Elizabeth Gilbert]


Took me a long time to let my wall down with you. Iam very cautious and want someone
safe to invest my feelings into.
You didn??t manage to gain my trust at distance, but what I saw from you when being face to face, who you were in daily life. I learned so much from you. Not only do you have
a brilliant brain, but you are warm-hearted and generous. Also very thoughtful and sensitive.

I'm as loyal as they come. You know well that with me you could talk about
anything and I??d be sincere, straightforward and someone you could definitively count on,
no matter what.
I??m proud of who Iam. Thank god I still have a few things to learn, I??m human-

What you must realize is that even the strongest person should be allowed to experience weaknesses from time to time without automatically being judged.

I do not care for someone who doesn??t care about me. I want and deserve someone
who shows enough respect and loyalty to look me in the eyes and communicate whatever he wants to say instead of hiding behind a sneaky text message (or two).

Somehow also tried to show him I'm ok and moving on.
Problem is, I want him back. In order to at least re-establish at least light communication, friendship....what to do?
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Anyone?
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I let some time pass, tried to move on. Still, I was at fault when doing my drunk dialing while he was not only at work but also destabilized by the fear for his future.
I get news via his friend, which is also mine and the leo is not doing well, still angryly shouting at everyone, the explanation he gave is the extreme fear of future. I so much want to do something be there for him, but since my 'emotional outbursts' I think I lost his trust a bit and the anchor I was for him has become problematic.
What can I do?
I sent him the letter above and that is strnage becaus I know he would talk to any of his exes, at least respond. But me...nothing.
Shall I just send a skype message saying 'skype me - don't worry, no "chick talk"? I know it would help if he sees him, even virtually. I so want to try to get him to talk to me again!
F..., all these hard times I was there for him must mean something to him...
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Posted by Jonleo
You really have to ask yourself why you need so much reassurance and why you went overboard. A solid relationship won't waiver just because someone doesn't text/call back right away.
When I'm in love, I feel it deep in my soul. The connection is so real & strong, I can taste it.
Don't make excuses for what is lacking. The greatest lesson in love is to learn how to see clearly through
the muddy waters of emotions. You have to learn how to discern on what level your relationship is on and act accordingly. If you're more in love than him, then you need to act cool. Let him come to you.
Also, I wouldn't be talking to his friend too much. Don't rely on what he says. It only matters how your guy treats
you directly. I'd resent a girl doing that and think she was desperate which is a big turn-off.
You've heard of Leo pride? It extends to those we know too so anyone who shows no pride is very unappealing to us.
That's what turned him off plus no man wants a woman suffering so clearly when you feel you've been upfront with her and treated her well. You're actually saying that all the nice things he's done for you now means nothing. A guy will get frustrated and throw up his hands and be done with it. We like to know we please you too but if you're always depressed, need reassurance, we feel like a failure. And at this point (from what you've said about his business, stress), there's only so much he has to give.
Idk, am I making any sense here? lol.






OMG u hit it on the nose here....."We like to know we please you too but if you're always depressed, need reassurance, we feel like a failure." BIG WOW when we get into arguements i often use the words "never loved me" and "you dont care" wow and he returns with "well it seems u have your mind made up, so i'm the bad guy? i NEVER cared or loved you right?" then he says "well I guess I'm a failure" wow too many times i've did that out of emotion and he hurts from what i said...but i didnt kno it could have that much of an effect on him.....he stil brings it up sometimes.....and yea LEO's want to always be known as the "BEST" thing that ever happen to you....wow this site has been one of the greatest assests i've come across....I am sooo trying to deal with my LEO....I just made some sincere post to his FB page and I'm about to go out and find him a meaningful card
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I totally agree with you buttaflybaby: i learned so much from this site and you all guys!! And Jonleos word struck me hard.
I wrote him the mail, telling him how happy he made me, hw much I appreciate his qualities, all true.
So despite all he's maybe hurting? With his business going sour he probably really feels like a failure, too.
Still, what to do now?
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Amber,
Has he responded? There is nothing to do except let him come to his own conclusions. It's frustrating but it's also very insightful about the man you got involved with. Heed it. Silence is more powerful than actions or words at this point. It allows him to contemplate. This is where you have to rely on trusting what you had and a test to see if he felt the same.
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Oh boy Donna!
It's as if you sensed the thing....
Iam also deeply touched you remembered, lacking words for this....
On the 31st first message since his sms's in July: " I miss you badly sometimes just like now"
About 20mn I responded: "Skype me"
Him (abou 1h later): "I am out"
I haven't responded - yet.
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An important P.S.: After his best friend, then his sietr from the US visiting him, now his grandma's there since friday... a factor to be taken into account - he only can take care of one thing at a time and he loves her a lot (was brought up by her)
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I'm here for you girl. Let us know if we can help.
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I so much appreciate that!
I'd like to know why you think he sent me that thought of missing me?
A friend told me she thinks he'll send another one.....
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You responded and he was out? Hmmm....guess he's testing the waters. Hang back and let him come to again. He needs to make more of an effort. One thing you need to know about Leo's is they will keep in touch with an ex just to see if you are still interested. It plays into his ego and you don't want to be that so just answer him casually and take it slow. Don't make a big deal out of it.
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Ok Donna, I will.
As said, I just sent "skype me", that's good, right?
Must admit that his sms after near 8 weeks of silence got my adrenalin shooting up, depite myself I seem to care.
I'll post if anything comes from his side.
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