Libra's & Sabotaging/Self Destructive

This topic was created in the Libra forum by jmr3979 on Sunday, September 4, 2011 and has 18 replies.
Hey Everyone,
Just wanted to know your thoughts on experiencing Libra's who are self destructive or sabotage either themselves or someone they love? Or display self destructive tendencies?
Any insight on how to deal with a Libra that is self sabotaging/self destructive since they do not like being pushed, told what to do etc...?
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I think we are people pleasers so on some level we do it to please the people around us.
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Libras engage in self-destructive behavior when they are backed into a corner and/or don't feel like they have control over anything, he/she is trying to regain a sense of control...as long as the behavior isn't going on suicidal...or leading towards killing others..than the BEST thing you can do is just show that you care...and then LEAVE THEM ALONE. Trying to dictate what they need to do, or trying to "save him" in any particular way is just going to make him/her resentful of you. This isn't about you, this is about them.
And in light of the last libra post you made, you ever think that the reason for his self-destructive behavior could be enhanced by your attempts to meddle? And before you start to complain about me picking on you, or making assumptions..etc.etc. Hear me out.
Libras are about the other...it's ingrained in our MO...we always use other people as a reflection of ourselves...at its worst...that could lead to codependency, losing sight of one's self, or ability to say what we want and what we feel we can do. So, every once in a while, we need that time to reassess ourselves...think about who we are...be selfish.
So yah, some Libras do it by being a recluse, some try hedonism..and if the libra is despairing immensely they'll engage in self-destructive behavior..but the purpose is to come out stronger as a person. Any attempts by others to try to "help" it along, just negates the whole process.
So yah, if you have to, just tell him how you feel... and then leave him be. If the self destructive behavior is bordering on physical harm to himself and others..than this isn't the site to be on.
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Hey Beautiful,
Thank you beautiful struggle for your honest insight and feedback and no I am not offended. You are right I have tried to help him and be there for him as because when we first met I was the saboteur. I was in the darkest place in my life and he fought with me, loved me, meddled because he did not want to lose me and for me to give up on a chance at us. It is very frustrating to watch someone that I love being stuck. And I mean he is stuck. Yes his back is against the door all the way to the wall and through so hard it??s imprinted. How can I just leave someone that I love down in their darkest hours when he was right by my side? This has been the hardest thing for me to handle because I know what I put him through and he stood by me and loved me. So it really hurts me intensely and deeply to watch someone I love in their darkest hours and leave. To me I guess I saw it as I was doing for him what he did for me. I know he feels bad and I know that he feels like he is not in control and maybe everything he is doing be it positive or negative is his way of trying to get in control.
My best friend who has spoken to him a few times feels that he is lost.He does not know what he wants or until he has it he will have issues. He has no focus on anything. Not motivated.Doesn't talk about work or career or anything. Whereas
I have a career, I can make achievements. The more I succeed the more bad he looks because I am more successful and independent than him.
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Maybe he feels like the better I do or the more I am making progress the more I don't need him. I know that he holds me in high regards and that my approval and validation mean a lot to him. So I do thread carefully on what I say and I do but no lie when I find that he has done something to hurt me and he knows how I will react I am not as censored. But I will apologize. He does not. He doesn't see the big deal or I am making a big deal over nothing and he is not wrong but let me do one little thing and its an apocalypse. I can't disagree on anything. Like he always has to be right. But if I say do not do this it hurts me - he does it anyway.
He is still stuck like he is a 17 year old and is pissed off. Every time we get close or make positive moves he will sabotage. I know sometimes when a person is struggling the person that they take it out on is that is the closet and supporting them the most. Maybe he is mad that I'm saying all these positive things are going to happen and they don't.
I understand that he wants to come out stronger but why sabotage what we worked so hard on? Why hurt me? I agree that he needs space and I give it to him but at the same time I am tired. I am hurt and frustrated. I want to say how I feel but every time I have been trying he just goes into his own world.
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Posted by everevolvingepithet
Maybe he's hurting too ?


Hi EEP,
Yes I know that he is hurting and probably suffering deeply and immensely. I know that he is. Sometimes to my own detriment I would like to take away his pain, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of it he brings to himself by the choices he makes. He shoots himself in the foot a lot and it's frustrating because I respect that he wants to do it on his own but it's insanity. He does the same thing over and over expecting a different result. And FYI it's not just me his entire family shares the frustration. He asked me to talk to his mom and I did and she shared the same frustration. So I tr my hardest not to give unsolicited advice and be supportive by asking what do you want to do? Or do you think you would be happy trying this? The thing is if he does not get it the first time he gives up and if he has to change things up a little he refuses. Or he settles for something just to do it and quit like two months later but complain everyday and I had better listen. For example his appearance he does not feel the need to groom himself for an interview. Or to do a follow up email or call after submitting an application. He says if they want me they will call me why do I have to follow up with them? I understand that he wants to do it his own way but at what point is enough especially when your hurt is hurting others?
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Posted by Pecheresse
Wow where do I start?
I guess I won't.
smile


Oh Percheresse that is no fun Sad
I would be very interested in the event you change your mind. I am open to hearing many points of views.
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I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to tell you.
Leave him alone, doesn't mean "let him go"..you can be there for a person and not try to save them. I'm not saying you shouldn't say you care or have feelings for the guy....I'm not saying you should be cold when he asks you for affection or anything like that...I'm saying that you should respect that this is his struggle and let him know that you'll be there for him when he needs you, just like he was for you.
And as far as Libras "talk" go...remember when I was telling you that Libras like conversation more than advice....If he starts lamenting to you about his life...he isn't asking you for advice...he's asking you to empathize with him, to understsand where he's coming from. You, especially YOU out of everyone he knows, should know EXACTLY what he's feeling right now. So all that blase-blah you told us about how he's helped you through your rough period...you could (if you hadn't already ) tell that to him. Trade stories...remind him of all the wonderful things he did for you.
The idea not to 'save' him..but 'empower' him to save himself.
Does that makes sense?
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Posted by TheBeautifulStruggle
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to tell you.
Leave him alone, doesn't mean "let him go"..you can be there for a person and not try to save them. I'm not saying you shouldn't say you care or have feelings for the guy....I'm not saying you should be cold when he asks you for affection or anything like that...I'm saying that you should respect that this is his struggle and let him know that you'll be there for him when he needs you, just like he was for you.
And as far as Libras "talk" go...remember when I was telling you that Libras like conversation more than advice....If he starts lamenting to you about his life...he isn't asking you for advice...he's asking you to empathize with him, to understsand where he's coming from. You, especially YOU out of everyone he knows, should know EXACTLY what he's feeling right now. So all that blase-blah you told us about how he's helped you through your rough period...you could (if you hadn't already ) tell that to him. Trade stories...remind him of all the wonderful things he did for you.
The idea not to 'save' him..but 'empower' him to save himself.
Does that makes sense?


Beautiful yes it does make sense. And I have done this. Especially because of I know what it feels like. But the thing is I have done this in every way possible. My frustration is I did and do leave him alone but he is being self destructive and sabotaging anything positive and the same way he didn't put up with my bs I should not have to put up with his. There is being supportive in the way he needs it but at the same time I do not have to take the bs. When he had enough he told me I had a choice if I kept being the way I was he was out and I am thinking of offering the same thing...
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I agree wholeheartedly with TheBeautifulStruggle...
Sometimes the hardest thing to do for a person is to tell another what is going on with them. When you are in the downward spiral, you know you're slipping but you can't seem to stop it. Isolation makes it worse because then you are only left with your self-critical and negative thoughts. You don't need anyone to nag, yell, scold, or push you when you are in that mindset - it only confirms all the bad things they are thinking about themselves. Let them know you care, that you are there for them, and that you are willing to listen to whatever they want to tell you - if they want to at all.
Speaking from experience, its a rough place to be in. Everyone is going to react differently but I find that with gentle encouragement, perhaps a small projects or some exercise, I'll start to come around. Eventually I'll see my way out of the fog of self-hatred that has clouded my brain but by then I've already done damage. That is usually where it is easy to slip back into the self-destruct mode because it seems such uphill climb to get things to right again.
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Posted by Pecheresse
Posted by jmr3979
Posted by Pecheresse
Wow where do I start?
I guess I won't.
smile


Oh Percheresse that is no fun Sad
I would be very interested in the event you change your mind. I am open to hearing many points of views.


well libras sabotage when they don't care, just like every other sign isnt it? or when they're deeply hurt, or taken for granted, or just bored. Self sabotaging hmmm....same thing. I don't know your personal experience but I would say sabotaging might be the ultimate cry for attention before calling it quits...
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Thanks for your insight. Yes every sign does it LOL. Interesting he does talk about how bored he is all the time. If he does not care about the relationship or what happens or life what can I honestly do? I can remind him all I want to and empower him but I can only do so much because I am frustrated and truly at wits end. How can I address or support the cry for attention if he disappears and reappears but doesn't say anything but then does things that sabotages himself or others?
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Posted by Nights22
Libras sabatoge when they are afraid of their little feelers and when things are going to smooth they seem to like making things more difficult for excitement sake.


*nods*
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Posted by Nights22
Libras sabatoge when they are afraid of their little feelers and when things are going to smooth they seem to like making things more difficult for excitement sake.


Hmmmm...being afraid to feel? That sounds like a deep seated issue. Every sign has emotions and feelings but how they are displayed are different. If someone says that they do not feel to me they are telling me they are numb and if they are numb then they have bigger issues on their hands because they are not allowing themselves to feel because they do not want to face whatever emotion or emotions there is.
Depending on my mood I can show my emotions externally or internally. I could be well aware that I am pissed off and hurt and know the cause but I may not show that I am angry. I may have a smile on my face but inside I am boiling. But I am feeling the emotions and recognize the emotions but I am not showing them.
So if Libra's sabotage because they are afraid to feel most likely their is an emotional and psychological trauma taking place and then the Libra become self destructive and sabotage. They become withdrawn and detached. So how does a person say hey Libra person you got some issues and I understand you need space but I am not going to take your bullshit?

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Posted by aquadiesel
Posted by jmr3979
Posted by everevolvingepithet
Maybe he's hurting too ?


Hi EEP,
Yes I know that he is hurting and probably suffering deeply and immensely. I know that he is. Sometimes to my own detriment I would like to take away his pain, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of it he brings to himself by the choices he makes. He shoots himself in the foot a lot and it's frustrating because I respect that he wants to do it on his own but it's insanity. He does the same thing over and over expecting a different result. And FYI it's not just me his entire family shares the frustration. He asked me to talk to his mom and I did and she shared the same frustration. So I tr my hardest not to give unsolicited advice and be supportive by asking what do you want to do? Or do you think you would be happy trying this? The thing is if he does not get it the first time he gives up and if he has to change things up a little he refuses. Or he settles for something just to do it and quit like two months later but complain everyday and I had better listen. For example his appearance he does not feel the need to groom himself for an interview. Or to do a follow up email or call after submitting an application. He says if they want me they will call me why do I have to follow up with them? I understand that he wants to do it his own way but at what point is enough especially when your hurt is hurting others?

maybe its not really him making the choices but someone else? (not you) but some else that he respects or anything that makes the wrong choices for him?
u are wanting his best, but maybe theres someone who wants his worst and he trusts this person more than u. am just supposing, it could be that, in that case, i think the best thing is to give up on him, because sometimes u try and try and u see u dont get a result, if u dont get a result (eg make him happy) its because theres something/one interfering with this result and i can only imagine he trusts this person more than u and respect them more than u, that he listens to this thing or someone more than he does listen to u.
he wants what u want, but he cant admit it, because he is controlled and manipulated by someone else who is trying to do anything
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Thanks Aqua however I do not think this is the case. He has no friends and his family is very small and he does not talk to them much. He spends most of his time online playing games, watching videos etc. He is in a lot of ways isolated and a loner so trusting someone to the point where they are steering him wrong I just don't see.
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Posted by aquadiesel
Posted by jmr3979
Thanks Aqua however I do not think this is the case. He has no friends and his family is very small and he does not talk to them much. He spends most of his time online playing games, watching videos etc. He is in a lot of ways isolated and a loner so trusting someone to the point where they are steering him wrong I just don't see.

maybe that is why he is sad then because he can't share his interests with someone else?
why don't you play with him sometime, i bet if you do then he will come help you in the house.
he sounds like he is depressed by what you said. there must be a reason, does he have a job? (u dont have to answer the question if personal)
tbh when i get depressed because of uni/work etc. i go online play games, its like a distraction so does my little brother, i know its not ideal, but still better than do bad things.
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Thanks again Aqua,
Yes I have played games with him online and even introduced him to a new game. We do not live close to each other we are actually long distance and I am relocating to where he is or closer to him. He does not have a consistent job he does work for the family business so if there is work available then he can do it. I also think the games and high online activity is a distraction and pleasure.
I do not mind so much the online games and whatever's because I do them myself. Maybe he feels like he can't talk to me because I have an extremely full plate right now and I am stressed to the max. If he does not talk to me he really does not talk to anybody.
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Yes he knows that I am stressed maybe he does not realize how stressed I am but he is aware. Yes I am an introvert and can talk a lot about many things but myself. I have tried opening up first to get him to confide in me but he says that no one can make him talk if he does not want to talk so I try not to force it.
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Posted by aquadiesel
Posted by jmr3979
Yes he knows that I am stressed maybe he does not realize how stressed I am but he is aware. Yes I am an introvert and can talk a lot about many things but myself. I have tried opening up first to get him to confide in me but he says that no one can make him talk if he does not want to talk so I try not to force it.

i think u are giving too much relevance to his arse. what does it mean he doesnt want to talk to you? u are his girlfriend...
oh rite typical libra male mentality: my girlfriend is my enemy, so keep ur friends close and ur enemies closer...
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You may be right. That is how he is. We have not talked in 4 weeks and last time that I saw him I left him I was pissed at him. No kiss or anything good-bye. He sent me about 4 texts only 1 I responded to and that was because of the Hurricane Irene thing. I sent him 1 call and 1 text still have not heard from him. But his birthday is coming up so his gift will be sent since it was per-ordered. Let's see if he starts talking to me again.
I told him if he needs to chill and take a step away for awhile I gets it. You know just send me a communication every now and again so I know you are okay and he agreed but does not do it.
At this point I have decided to just write a letter to him and what happens happens. I have way to much stuff going on to focus on his bullshit. And when he calls if he calls and I am not ready then he will have to wait until I am ready. I can be the sweetest most supportive girlfriend but I am not taking unnecessary shit.
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