DXP Survivor 2 Part VII

This topic was created in the Miscellaneous forum by StoicGoat on Thursday, April 18, 2013 and has 28 replies.
Aquasnoz, the votes are in and you have been voted out.
Remaining players:
From specifying the general subject matter that must be covered to the specific texts that must be used, most, if not all, of the world??s governments play some role in education. Given that every nation has an innate vested interest in presenting itself in the best possible light and that history has demonstrated those who possess power frequently utilise it to further their own respective agenda(s), is it appropriate for government to be involved in education? If yes, to what degree? If no, defend your case. Be sure to comment on any potential threats/benefits/pros/cons to the position you choose.
As with the previous debates, you will be judged against your fellow players on how well you stake your position, defend it against attack, and support it logically and/or with empirical evidence. Remember that although there are no formal teams, you are free to form whatever public or covert alliances you see fit. The audience is welcome to comment in this thread.
The debate will end 23 hours, 59 minutes, 59 seconds after the time stamp on this post unless it seems to be going well, in which case it will be extended for an additional 24 hours.
Good luck!
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That's pretty much the size of it. It is anyone's game at this point.
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Good luck! But you ain't stopping me from attempting immunity challenges muahaha! Now that should've been my tactic all along. WIN ALL THE IMMUNITIES!
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Sad Maybe an idea for DXP a challenge a week!
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Maybe I'll put one together just for you and any other masochists lurking about here. smile
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Posted by robyn808
I created a game called Astro dating. Its a lot of fun but requires some set up.

Could be interesting, too.
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"From specifying the general subject matter that must be covered to the specific texts that must be used, most, if not all, of the world??s governments play some role in education. Given that every nation has an innate vested interest in presenting itself in the best possible light and that history has demonstrated those who possess power frequently utilise it to further their own respective agenda(s)"
This seems to be only applicable to textbooks on history and anything that might religiously based. If a government has done bad things in history it probably would be interested in either fluffing how bad they were or even omitting it. And if a government viewed any particular belief/religion as bringing their governance into question one could argue that in an effort to protect their best interest they would try create prejudice towards that belief/religion at an early age such as with what Feb16Aqua as said about evolution vs creationism. I'm divided on both fronts with this only because:

(1) This country is based on separation of church and state. It would only make sense that in public system it would separate Evolution a more scientific based theory over Creationism a more religious based theory. However, to not teach all theories, since they are both theories, is obstructing a well rounded open education on the basis of where we all came from. Just because it is very difficult to prove creationism does not disprove it... technically evolution is not proven as scientific fact... they are both still just 'theories' and I think to omit theories from education is limiting knowledge.
(2) History is only one part of education.... and does not explain why the US in general is under-performing academically.
", is it appropriate for government to be involved in education?"

I most certainly think so. It is in the governments best interest and not in a corrupt way either I will elaborate my position further when I get out of class.
cheers
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I mean it is easy to sit and come up with conspiracy theories that are not all that unlogical even with thin proof to back it but I would say in general a government always has to consider the future. And if we consider 'knowledge' to be 'power' and the population as a whole is less knowledgeable than other developed countries... one can only conclude that that means that the country eventually will or is in essence less powerful then other countries so to speak. No matter what your opinion or conspiracy theory is whether you buy into corporatocracy and that the real rulers are Big Business Owners... that they manipulate society so that only their offspring make it into the highest achieving schools to support a continual cycle of Economic Oppression... you just view it as corrupt politicians taking advantages anyway they can to take the tax money of the country to use to their advantage their is one problem with the theory....
If these supposed horrible evil people do in fact do what some may well think they do... How could it be logical that these evil people would not support a stronger education system within the boundaries of the country they reside in. Their children still have to learn to be strong intelligent Men and Women to run the Massive Corporations they have worked so hard to build.... or the eventually outcome will be their family losing control of their rightfully owned business to more cunning share holders.. I would think these people have egos to go along with their massive success they will want to leave a legacy no? Same goes for the children of the 'Corrupt Politicians'. I don't believe there could so many people that evil and corrupt that they would not even consider their own kids... not that their aren't those that exist but I'm speaking purely on the majority and not the minority.
Besides, poorly educated and weak offspring would make them look bad no?
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But then why the following conundrum...
So, in general as it stands right now the US, the country with highest GDP of all other nations in the world 15.1 trillion in 2011...even china is behind by practically 10 trillion...
This high powered..and efficient country somehow ranks 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics (OECD stands for Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development).
How can this be?
Well their are a lot of contributing factors but one for damn sure is government funding and generally how it is funded..
-First of all are money is going towards a nationally based testing system in the attempt to keep a regular eye on how well our public teachers are performing overall.. but basing it purely on the performance of their students. Now, I will say a good teacher no matter what will always have an impact on any students performance BUT the learning and gathering of knowledge at the end of the day is still a self-motivated act that in no way can be completely blamed on any teacher ...and with the current system in no child left behind it really is.. and it's slightly unfair and not helping as much as it should. 'No Child Left Behind' enacted by George W. Bush's administration was considered groundbreaking at the time for it's promise to focus on individual student achievement and overall school performance BUT this law overtime has weaknesses and a lot of it has to do with our countries views as a society more than anything (but I will touch in that later). From a CNN opinion OP-EScared
The law's "Highly Qualified Teacher" requirements value tenure and credentials over an educator's ability to motivate students in the classroom. Strict mandates and funding restrictions stunt the development of innovative local education programs.
(http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/06/opinion/kline-no-child-left-behind)
Our children deserve better than that. And how much help can this law help those coming from lower income families, the main group this law was partly put into action for, if it is going to help cater to lazier tenured teachers? The lower income children essentially it really benefiting much at all depending on the situation of course.... not all teachers who are tenured are bad teachers nor are all teachers bad.
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-Secondly Our society as a whole has a misconstrued view on the profession of teaching and how much respect and or compensation a teacher receives. We do not attach much value if any at all to the profession of teaching. Mainly because we are a society of individual acheivement and excellence. While a teacher may be good they don't bring home the dough... there are those who would not be teacher just from the lack of respect for the job in general even despite the income. Teaching effectively and good is not an easy task like some might like to think. The subject matter may be easy to the more highly educated but just because you know so much does not mean you could teach the subject well... teaching is skill and not a very praised one in our country unlike other countries where students on average acheive much much higher then we do here in the US.
I think the only way to eleviate the quality of teacher problem is to make it more rigorious to be a teacher... and have higher degrees of education. As well as pass certification tests to ensure the knowledge and skills supposedly ascertained by the degrees earned macth the skills required to be an effective teacher. Even, possibly use the money we are using for all this rigourious testing of students and focus it more on testing the teachers of our country and also possibly using it to raise their salaries to make the profession more appealing to the more talented folk of our country... as at the end of the day money is more valued then the profession itself overall in this country. And this infact is to some degree how other countries approach it outside of the "money" suggestion which is more tailored to our society in motivating more people to want to be Teachers as it would seem the only way to add more respect to the profession would be to add $ signs to the salary you could potentially earn. Also, pay teachers better wages based on their performance rather than giving weak teachers and strong teachers the same salary.
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<#ppbnf&
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While the US appears average at best in comparison to 40 other developed countries.
Finland, and South Korea top the list!! Hong Kong, Japan, and Singapore follow.

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And the reason for why these countries have better education.... well I'll give you a hint.... it doesn't involve them taking the government out of the education system.
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And furthermore the theory that the government would be corrupt here and want to manipulate who learns and who doesn't.... would mean this theory would have to hold in other well developed countries no? So if taking that into consideration then why do other countries that have better education still have the same type of government and furthermore probably have more tax money spent on education? Probably, because the society as a whole is different from us... and the government can be accepted and spending more money on such things...
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Finland's education system is dominant to the worlds because....
1)The education is totally government funded! If you live in Finland you will never pay to be educated from preschool, to secondary school, to college... it will be totally free! Outside over extra curricular activities you will never pay a dime for you education. Dude that is hella nice.
2)The standard of education does not waver from one part of town to another. Rich and Poor alike receive the same type of education. It really is pretty idealistic sounding but is working over there is it not? It would seem Finland could teach the United States what equal opportunity really is.
The irony of Finnish educational success is that it derives heavily from classroom innovation and school improvement research in the United States.
what the classroom typically looks like there




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<#ppbnf&
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Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
Finland is home to a much more coherent system of national teacher education and the selection process is very competitive. It is not easy to get into a University for Education. Unlike the United States, teaching is one of the top career choices among the youth in Finland. Teachers in Finland are highly regarded professionals and they are held to the same high academic standard when being taught in the University. A research-based master's degree is the minimum requirement to teach in Finland.
Fundamentally, the real big difference between here and Finland is this... In the United States Teachers are not as respected as they are in Finland. In Finland, there is a strong sense of trust in schools and teachers. There is no external inspection of schools or standardized testing of all pupils in Finland. And it has nothing to do with the money because Finland's teachers are paid comparatively the same as US teachers...
In truth it would be hard to implement this type of system in the US as it stands right now. As I have already said the US does not have a high enough respect for teachers and it's not so unfounded. I don't think it's that we disrespect the profession so to speak as much as it's been the trend to employ lazy, unmotivated, unskilled, and in a lot of ways unqualified teachers. I know very well what this trend is like too trust me. I come from Louisiana, we have been ranked pretty poorly over all in education and performance for a long time now and believe not many years ago we were second to dead last. I can admit that 'No Child Left Behind' has helped improve education to some extant in the lower levels of education.... not so much collegiate. Before that program inner city kids were subject to some of the poorest education you could probably find anywhere. And it only promotes a vicious cycle because not only are schools teaching it to these children but their parents are no better if they even have parents at home. To rise above the inner city life here in New Orleans would take very strong individual that would not have had a lot of outside support prior to this law. Still though it is not helping enough and I'm sure there are teacher's who under the pressure feel the need to cheat for the children to artificially improve their scores so as not to put their job in jeopardy.
At least, it's a start.
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Really do feel that to blame a lack of education to be the fault of a corrupt government whether true or not to the government being corrupt is just an excuse...
No one is stopping you from learning... If you choose to. But I don't disregard the effect of society and background on people.
Furthermore, it is in the government's best interest you wanna know why?
How do you think all the top tier money makers got to where they are?
The majority of them all are very well educated.
Sure.. some where not college educated like others but doesn't that only point to this being the land of opportunity no matter if you where or you weren't(I'm sure those individuals were self taught anyhow.) I was in class just today being taught by a first generation immigrant whose parents immigrated from both Russia and Germany during World WarII. And made handsome sums of money as entreprenuers.
If the country as a whole would focus more on learning they would come up with their own innovative ways to make money here and only add to the GDP potential gold mine we sit on here in this country. I'm certain that if we were to be better educated it would only add to the GDP and NO GOVERNMENT CORRUPT OR NOT IS GOING TO BE AGAINST THAT.
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I leave you with this
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Closing the achievement gap with Finland would, according to historical experience, have astounding benefits, increasing the annual growth rate of the United States by 1 percent of GDP. Accumulated over the lifetime of somebody born today, this improvement in achievement would amount to nothing less than an increase in total U.S. economic output of $ 112 trillion in present value. (That was not a typo??? $ 112 trillion, not billion.)
Admittedly, these estimates are subject to some uncertainty. So if you think those that are given here are too high, even though they are based on the best of contemporary research, then just cut them in half. You will still have effects on growth of one-half of 1 percent per year, which produces impacts of $ 56 trillion over the lifetime of today??s child. In other words, to make the very large effects disappear, you have to make either the very strong assumption that student learning has little effect on the U.S. economy or the equally strong assumption that teachers have little impact on students.

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http://hanushek.stanford.edu/publications/valuing-teachers-how-much-good-teacher-worth
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So like who won?
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I could so see me fucking up a prank like this ^.^

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Given that feb has deleted, it would appear NYAA and Dimpz will be squaring off against each other in the final round. 9PM EST Monday.
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She remade her name man you didn't see?
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Feby16Aqua go look for yourself
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I was not aware, but I am pleased. I'd hoped that she would reappear smile
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Congratulations are in order to feb for winning the debate. Good job!
As the player with the most points, the person you will face in the final debate for title of Sole Survivor is yours to make. Let me know if you will be facing xdimplez or NotYourAverageAquarius. The final topic will be posted tomorrow evening.
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Posted by feby16aqua
I hereby invoke clause 5:11. Libra moon clause. Participant is unable/restricted to make decisions based on possessing libra moon and/or strong libra and/or heavy moon weighing placements which happen to be libra centric.

Your objection is overruled.
You are required to decide whom you will face off against in the final round. Whether you do this via coin toss, dart board, a game of Twister, or some other more creative and/or scandalous method is entirely up to you, but you must deliver the decision. No exceptions!
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The final topic goes up tomorrow at 9PM EST, so you have a little more than 24 hours.
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