Right to Bear Arms Amendment - Dumbest Part of the US Constitution
This topic was created in the Miscellaneous forum by firebunny on Thursday, February 15, 2018 and has 41 replies.
Discuss.
And before you tell me I'm no American, I have cousins, aunts, and relatives there in California.
I'm guessing right about now, the teachers who witnessed their students get shot yesterday WISHED they had a gun to stop the shooter to save those who died.
Other than that, your opinion on the matter is that of many and there are many who think otherwise.
The good news is we are all free to express either in this country.
Other than that, your opinion on the matter is that of many and there are many who think otherwise.
The good news is we are all free to express either in this country.
Afaik it was incorporated into the constitution as a last safety preventing tyranny, the idea being armed civilians could rise up against an oppressive government, mimicking "minute-men" that rose against the British.
Fairly reasonable plan, the problem is the arm of the would be oppressive government enforcing law and order has become so militarized and the right to bear arms neutered to semi-auto weaponry only meaning it is wholly out of balance nowadays.
Fairly reasonable plan, the problem is the arm of the would be oppressive government enforcing law and order has become so militarized and the right to bear arms neutered to semi-auto weaponry only meaning it is wholly out of balance nowadays.
Posted by PiscesfuckupBut when he would be able to access it, it would be a weapon capable of full-auto because the black market doesn't care about US gun laws.
1. If there was no Right to Bear Arms Amendment it would have been a lot more difficult for the shooter to have access to a gun
See, we have gun laws in Europe and all the criminals have AK's with full auto, all the mass terrorist attacks committed have been done with full auto weaponry, it's not difficult to get one.
Posted by PiscesfuckupI somewhat agree with you on the notion that constraining means to acquire a firearm is conducive to a decrease of shootings, however, the percentage of how much it lowers it is unknown and you are harming the reast of the populace by taking away their right to defend themselves because of a minority which would get their weapons anyway.
But in Europe you don't see mass shootings committed by lone individuals like disturbed teens because they simply don't have guns lying around their house.
On the other hand, we could take Switzerland as a counter-example, #3 in firearms per citizen in the world. Never heard of a school shooting from there tbh.
The issue is the "crazies" don't acknowledge any right but their own to buy these weapons illegally and kill when they so desire on a whim.
Law abiding citizens have a right to defend themselves.. or not.
Not sure if they have yet passed laws in some states to arm teachers, but not sure if I'm comfortable with that either. I do however like the idea that's being tossed around to have retired military or police officers armed and protecting every door to every building of a school for prevention purposes. I'd vote yes on that in a heartbeat!
Law abiding citizens have a right to defend themselves.. or not.
Not sure if they have yet passed laws in some states to arm teachers, but not sure if I'm comfortable with that either. I do however like the idea that's being tossed around to have retired military or police officers armed and protecting every door to every building of a school for prevention purposes. I'd vote yes on that in a heartbeat!
Posted by PiscesfuckupIn sentence #1 you say a decrease of any magnitude is okay.
I think the fact that there is a decrease of shootings is good enough, regardless of percentage.
And I think the only way the rest of the populace could defend themselves is if everyone carried a gun on themselves 'just in case' at all times which would be nuts.
In sentence #2 you say that it doesn't matter if a certain percentage of population carries a weapon, thereby contributing to a decreased threat of gun violence by some amount of percents.
Where did the enthusiasm for any, no matter how miniscule decrease in gun violence in sentence #1 go?
Posted by DiannaI understand where you're coming from but the thing with you're suggestion is that criminals are not going to take a time out and lives are being lost while we're trying to "figure things out." The truth is, we don't value human life as a society.
Mass shootings are happening more and more frequently. Instead of blaming guns, we need to figure out what goes on in the mind of these shooters. Why do they have no regard for human life? Millions of people own guns or have access to guns and don't commit mass murder.
I don't see law enforcement taking that same stance with drug addiction. I'm not saying make guns illegal but we ought to make it a lot harder to get one. Every other thing that can cause harm from cigarettes to booze is heavily regulated...except guns. It makes no sense.
The truth is, the original form the way Madison wrote it actually bans guns for citizens. It's in the Federalist Papers but nobody actually studies history. It was watered down to its current form so the Constitution could pass Congress just like every other bill.
lel, i just saw the photo of this kid from Florida.....he's gonna be picking soap in jail all day eeery day...
wouldn't you like to have your own pet bear, bunny?
you could dress like di caprio and move suggestively in front of it
Posted by wisebloodSeems it does
I also see a problem with people carrying guns for "protection".. People improperly assess situations all the time and react out of fear when they possibly had no reason to. I mean look how often police officers do it.. and they are trained.. apparently.. Lol. Still, being able to carry guns for any purpose poses problems.
guns don't kill people unchecked mental health kills people
Posted by SupesIn an ideal world......yesPosted by TheRabbitThe other argument can be made to just not do drugs in the first place
Mental illness just isn't given the attention it needs in the U.S.
Much like drug users, we don't help them get better, we just wait for the shit to hit the fan, then lock them up.
Hard drugs, even abusing pain meds seriously damages parts of the brain.click to expand
In reality.....doesn't happen, people need to find an escape, drugs, from prescription meds to harder stuff is big big business and of course very addictive
*Keep em hooked* mentality
Money, money,money
Posted by wiseblood.....and the person with chemical brain imbalance pleads "I need this killer weapon to defend myself"
I also see a problem with people carrying guns for "protection".. People improperly assess situations all the time and react out of fear when they possibly had no reason to. I mean look how often police officers do it.. and they are trained.. apparently.. Lol. Still, being able to carry guns for any purpose poses problems.
Bang,bang, bang
Posted by wisebloodI agree for similar reasons - as i've witnessed the same in my home country. As proven, it's simply a safer place to live in. And not just cause of unstable people and mass shootings - but it's also safer for children - whom, through their childish perspective - might see some fun in playing with a gun (there's plenty who found a way to snatch it from a family member or neighbor - even though it was kept in a safe place / children are inventive by nature - they can pay some extraction and find a way to get their hand on something they crave for - same as we did once 😏 ).
Yes the people committing these acts clearly have issues.. there is no denying that.. But the right to carry the weapons is clearly also a problem.. We are not allowed to here in Canada and guess what, you don't too often hear about mass shootings like ya do in the US.. We have unstable people here too, but they don't have the ability to carry weapons the way Americans do.. Mental instability and the access to weapons both play a role here..
We don't live in the old west anymore (well, some still do - in countries that are more like war zones - but U.S. is not one of them - they keep their wars at distance). This days - there's far better and safer ways to protect your home (an alarm system, sensor lights and so on...).
Posted by SupesSure......but some will still travel down that rocky path. We were all shown a Cancer ridden black lung at school but still called to the shop on the way home to buy 10 BensonsPosted by MyStarsShineThe govt keeps me locked up because it keeps them out of their hair. I don’t think drugs are the govts problem to fix. I think youngsters need to see a legit crackwhore so they get the glimpse of their futurePosted by SupesIn an ideal world......yesPosted by TheRabbitThe other argument can be made to just not do drugs in the first place
Mental illness just isn't given the attention it needs in the U.S.
Much like drug users, we don't help them get better, we just wait for the shit to hit the fan, then lock them up.
Hard drugs, even abusing pain meds seriously damages parts of the brain.
In reality.....doesn't happen, people need to find an escape, drugs, from prescription meds to harder stuff is big big business and of course very addictive
*Keep em hooked* mentality
Money, money,moneyclick to expand
Human nature
Posted by PiscesfuckupI didn't misunderstand anything. I simply took your theory further. You assume 100% weapon ownership will help with people defending themselves 100% of the time.Posted by Mr_PinchyYou misunderstood my point. I said if everyone carried a gun on themselves maybe they could defend themselves but that doesn't mean the gun violence would decrease. It would just become the Wild Wild West, a free for all. Madness.Posted by PiscesfuckupIn sentence #1 you say a decrease of any magnitude is okay.
I think the fact that there is a decrease of shootings is good enough, regardless of percentage.
And I think the only way the rest of the populace could defend themselves is if everyone carried a gun on themselves 'just in case' at all times which would be nuts.
In sentence #2 you say that it doesn't matter if a certain percentage of population carries a weapon, thereby contributing to a decreased threat of gun violence by some amount of percents.
Where did the enthusiasm for any, no matter how miniscule decrease in gun violence in sentence #1 go?click to expand
That percentage drops with ownership....ie if 30% of population has weapons they are protected 30% of the time. So that's 30% you discount in your sentence #2. We are not talking of gun violence but rather of people being able to defend themselves. 30% of the time you are able to do so is still better than 0% of the time.
Signed Up: Nov 17, 2012
Comments: 22 · Posts: 6178 · Topics: 30
Comments: 22 · Posts: 6178 · Topics: 30
I think my opinion on this issue is beginning to change...
Truthfully... I think you should have the right to buy a gun if you wish. I personally have never owned one my entire life. But, clearly the accessibility of guns in America is presenting a safety issue that has not been resolved for many many years now...
For those of us who reside in the United States...
I think...
Parting with a freedom like that is hard psychologically.
Because, of not only the mindset of “freedom” but possibly the fact we know our ancestors fought and died to liberate us from Britain and many other such wars fighting the tyranny even in own country. Maybe.. subconsciously we feel we are letting them have died in vain for every new freedom we concede? I think we think handing the government the power to take that away from us.... enslaves us to them somehow even though most of us are such pathetic passifists!
We let them get away with just about everything else politically long as they tell us what we want to hear...
-_-
Fucking hate passivity.
Truthfully... I think you should have the right to buy a gun if you wish. I personally have never owned one my entire life. But, clearly the accessibility of guns in America is presenting a safety issue that has not been resolved for many many years now...
For those of us who reside in the United States...
I think...
Parting with a freedom like that is hard psychologically.
Because, of not only the mindset of “freedom” but possibly the fact we know our ancestors fought and died to liberate us from Britain and many other such wars fighting the tyranny even in own country. Maybe.. subconsciously we feel we are letting them have died in vain for every new freedom we concede? I think we think handing the government the power to take that away from us.... enslaves us to them somehow even though most of us are such pathetic passifists!
We let them get away with just about everything else politically long as they tell us what we want to hear...
-_-
Fucking hate passivity.
Posted by PiscesfuckupBlack market? No?
You're convoluting this. Forget percentages. We ARE talking about gun violence. If nobody had a gun, nobody would need to defend themselves from such violence. Simples.
People who want a gun will get a gun.
#edit: if your next response will be ban black market i feel obliged in reminding you US government disseminated weapons among Mexican drug cartels on it's own.
Posted by PiscesfuckupYou're getting emotional and the quality of your argument is suffering as a result. You know what's better than acid as means of fending off an acid attack? A gun.
Ok acid attacks happen too. So let's just all start carrying buckets of it everywhere we go just in case we need to splash some back at some nutjob who decided to attack us. This makes total sense.
Acid bro needs to come within 3 meters of you to spray you, gun works up to 30-50 depending on your skills. Do the math....
He looked like something was really wrong with him... disturbing. I agree, the root of the problem is society and figuring out why these kids are motivated to cause such devastation. Sad thing is there were red flags about this kid and I assure you there are a lot more kids like that out there. Problem with banning guns is the bad guys will always find ways to obtain them.
I would like to see the age requirement to own a gun be older like at least 21 and we should have mental facilities for disturbed kids/adults if they are a threat to society.
I would like to see the age requirement to own a gun be older like at least 21 and we should have mental facilities for disturbed kids/adults if they are a threat to society.
More people need more guns actually. The more guns the better. If some of those students or teachers were aloud to have guns there would have been a chance to save people.
Guess what? If you took away the rights to own guns crazy people would just learn how to make homemade bombs on the internet and kill even more people. Not to mention criminals would still get guns. So then you have 1 person with a gun, and 0 people with guns to fight back.
For a place like America the idea of making gun owing illegal is the dumbest idea the rest of the world ever thought of. You have no clue what dealing with insane Americans is like, so stop giving opinions that would work where you live, because it doesn't work here.
Guess what? If you took away the rights to own guns crazy people would just learn how to make homemade bombs on the internet and kill even more people. Not to mention criminals would still get guns. So then you have 1 person with a gun, and 0 people with guns to fight back.
For a place like America the idea of making gun owing illegal is the dumbest idea the rest of the world ever thought of. You have no clue what dealing with insane Americans is like, so stop giving opinions that would work where you live, because it doesn't work here.
guys, as soon as you ban weapons, the englishmen are going to come back and rape you in your home
Can't blame americans for being uneducated now, school is dangerous
my thoughts on this all .
The constitution was written during a completely different era and with different weaponry involved, it needs to be changed and updated to coincide with the weapons we have now, not 200+ years ago.
The constitution was written during a completely different era and with different weaponry involved, it needs to be changed and updated to coincide with the weapons we have now, not 200+ years ago.
Posted by bmoon8Ahh well there we have it then! He had deep egotistical issues and probably OCD 😝Posted by ArkansassySun Libra 1°25'
For anyone wanting to do a birth chart on the Florida shooter from yesterday..
His DOB is 09/24/1998
http://apps.sheriff.org/ArrestSearch/InmateDetail/201800
Moon Scorpio 14°37'
Mercury Libra 0°27'
Venus Virgo 22°10'
Mars Leo 22°05'
Jupiter Pisces 21°56' R
Saturn Taurus 2°18' R
Uranus Aquarius 9°03' R
Neptune Capricorn 29°29' R
Pluto Sagittarius 5°45'
Lilith Scorpio 1°41'
Asc node Virgo 1°00'click to expand
Posted by bmoon8It depends on the motive. There is a differentiation between a grown adult having no connections to the school and just shooting versus a former student that obviously wanted some type of revenge.
If this was a Muslim who did this, it would be a "terrorist attack". But since it's not, mental illness gets blamed.
Posted by ImpulsvHold up there. I am a born and raised Texan, that lives in and loves California for the past 16 years.Posted by xkraftTHATS a Texan for u lolPosted by SupesSsupes. Explain.Posted by firebunnyCalifornia is barely American
And before you tell me I'm no American, I have cousins, aunts, and relatives there in California.click to expand
Posted by MiZLeoIn most cases - even a sensor light that starts when you get to close - is enough to make any thief reconsider. If you're dealing with "that type of intruder (has to be really personal - if she/he's whiling to ignore even alarms)" - then you might need protection 24/7. Cause i doubt your guns would be of much use - it's actually what the one in question could use to shoot you from the back - while you open the door to get inside. In brood day light. From a car - across the street.Posted by nevesMy alarm system and sensor lights aren't going to protect me from an intruder. It just warns me to get my guns ready.Posted by wisebloodI agree for similar reasons - as i've witnessed the same in my home country. As proven, it's simply a safer place to live in. And not just cause of unstable people and mass shootings - but it's also safer for children - whom, through their childish perspective - might see some fun in playing with a gun (there's plenty who found a way to snatch it from a family member or neighbor - even though it was kept in a safe place / children are inventive by nature - they can pay some extraction and find a way to get their hand on something they crave for - same as we did once 😏 ).
Yes the people committing these acts clearly have issues.. there is no denying that.. But the right to carry the weapons is clearly also a problem.. We are not allowed to here in Canada and guess what, you don't too often hear about mass shootings like ya do in the US.. We have unstable people here too, but they don't have the ability to carry weapons the way Americans do.. Mental instability and the access to weapons both play a role here..
We don't live in the old west anymore (well, some still do - in countries that are more like war zones - but U.S. is not one of them - they keep their wars at distance). This days - there's far better and safer ways to protect your home (an alarm system, sensor lights and so on...).click to expand
On the other hand... with that level of paranoia you might shoot the delivery guy or the neighbor's kid (while he's recovering his ball from your porch). This are examples taken from reality (quite common - unfortunately). More recently, i remember all kind of situations where people got shot - while playing Pokemon Go (that game where you find a virtual creature with your phone - in a random place from real life).
Posted by MiZLeoTell that to a child.Posted by nevesIf you're on someone's private property because you're trying to catch a Pokemon then you deserve to be shot.Posted by MiZLeoIn most cases - even a sensor light that starts when you get to close - is enough to make any thief reconsider. If you're dealing with "that type of intruder (has to be really personal - if she/he's whiling to ignore even alarms)" - then you might need protection 24/7. Cause i doubt your guns would be of much use - it's actually what the one in question could use to shoot you from the back - while you open the door to get inside. In brood day light. From a car - across the street.Posted by nevesMy alarm system and sensor lights aren't going to protect me from an intruder. It just warns me to get my guns ready.Posted by wisebloodI agree for similar reasons - as i've witnessed the same in my home country. As proven, it's simply a safer place to live in. And not just cause of unstable people and mass shootings - but it's also safer for children - whom, through their childish perspective - might see some fun in playing with a gun (there's plenty who found a way to snatch it from a family member or neighbor - even though it was kept in a safe place / children are inventive by nature - they can pay some extraction and find a way to get their hand on something they crave for - same as we did once 😏 ).
Yes the people committing these acts clearly have issues.. there is no denying that.. But the right to carry the weapons is clearly also a problem.. We are not allowed to here in Canada and guess what, you don't too often hear about mass shootings like ya do in the US.. We have unstable people here too, but they don't have the ability to carry weapons the way Americans do.. Mental instability and the access to weapons both play a role here..
We don't live in the old west anymore (well, some still do - in countries that are more like war zones - but U.S. is not one of them - they keep their wars at distance). This days - there's far better and safer ways to protect your home (an alarm system, sensor lights and so on...).
On the other hand... with that level of paranoia you might shoot the delivery guy or the neighbor's kid (while he's recovering his ball from your porch). This are examples taken from reality (quite common - unfortunately). More recently, i remember all kind of situations where people got shot - while playing Pokemon Go (that game where you find a virtual creature with your phone - in a random place from real life).
click to expand
There's lots of neighborhoods all over U.S. - where there's no fences surrounding the entire property:
And children... are children (they rarely listen). Probably dead children around your neighborhood. Damn, that sure sounds like a really shitty place to live in (with so little potential for a happy childhood).
Posted by Mr_PinchyIf your going to call Switzerland out as your example look at the BIG PICTURE.
On the other hand, we could take Switzerland as a counter-example, #3 in firearms per citizen in the world. Never heard of a school shooting from there tbh.
Switzerland is #3 for handguns owned. However military service is required and they keep their firearms once they return home. So 90% of those guns belong to military personal. As opposed to the US where only 20% are owned by military personal.
Additionally it is ILLEGAL to carry guns in public in Switzerland.
Also their gun restrictions are much more thorough than us here in the states. And psych evaluations are part of the process to getting a gun. You are limited not only by the number of firearms but ammunition as well.
Having universal healthcare and taking mental illness seriously is a HUGE part of the reason they don't have the mass shootings we do. Not to mention they have armed security at schools...
Posted by LadyNeptuneYou really should look at my post as a possible solution not as something you try to one up me on.Posted by Mr_PinchyIf your going to call Switzerland out as your example look at the BIG PICTURE.
On the other hand, we could take Switzerland as a counter-example, #3 in firearms per citizen in the world. Never heard of a school shooting from there tbh.
Switzerland is #3 for handguns owned. However military service is required and they keep their firearms once they return home. So 90% of those guns belong to military personal. As opposed to the US where only 20% are owned by military personal.
Additionally it is ILLEGAL to carry guns in public in Switzerland.
Also their gun restrictions are much more thorough than us here in the states. And psych evaluations are part of the process to getting a gun. You are limited not only by the number of firearms but ammunition as well.
Having universal healthcare and taking mental illness seriously is a HUGE part of the reason they don't have the mass shootings we do. Not to mention they have armed security at schools...click to expand
It is not my fault your government fucked the majority of you up beyond any recognition and is giving you weapons no questions asked.
Posted by SoulYour kidding right?
If some of those students or teachers were aloud to have guns there would have been a chance to save people.
I'm all for putting armed security in schools. But handing guns to children and underpaid/overworked teachers is just gonna make this current problem 100xs worse.
Posted by LeowwwwwIt was reported to the FBI on Jan 5th. There was multiple reports at the school by students to the staff members. Nobody did shit.
I read the killer posted disturbing content on his Instagram and / or Facebook... Dead animals included.
I find it hard to understand why it wasn't reported to authorities... And if it was.. Why wasn't anything more done??
18 school shootings since January 1st... Clearly the issue here is only mental illness..... 🙄
Posted by Mr_PinchyYeah I never said it was your fault. Stop being so emotional.Posted by LadyNeptuneYou really should look at my post as a possible solution not as something you try to one up me on.Posted by Mr_PinchyIf your going to call Switzerland out as your example look at the BIG PICTURE.
On the other hand, we could take Switzerland as a counter-example, #3 in firearms per citizen in the world. Never heard of a school shooting from there tbh.
Switzerland is #3 for handguns owned. However military service is required and they keep their firearms once they return home. So 90% of those guns belong to military personal. As opposed to the US where only 20% are owned by military personal.
Additionally it is ILLEGAL to carry guns in public in Switzerland.
Also their gun restrictions are much more thorough than us here in the states. And psych evaluations are part of the process to getting a gun. You are limited not only by the number of firearms but ammunition as well.
Having universal healthcare and taking mental illness seriously is a HUGE part of the reason they don't have the mass shootings we do. Not to mention they have armed security at schools...
It is not my fault your government fucked the majority of you up beyond any recognition and is giving you weapons no questions asked.click to expand
I'm pointing out the obvious differences between Swiss gun culture and American gun culture. While we can certainly implement some of their processes...its a different environment and different animal altogether.
Fact is...majority of american guns are owned by people not connected to the military. Meaning less training and safety around these weapons.
Posted by LadyNeptuneI think you're off with those numbers anyway. There's like 2 million pieces of weapons in Switzerland, you say 90% is military, which would mean 1.8 million pieces. That's literally too much, for comparison China has one million active conscripts with 1.3 bill. population while Switzerland has 8 million ppl and 150.000 something active military, but in this number the administration and support staff is included as well so it doesn't represent the accurate number of soldiers.
Yeah I never said it was your fault. Stop being so emotional.
I'm pointing out the obvious differences between Swiss gun culture and American gun culture. While we can certainly implement some of their processes...its a different environment and different animal altogether.
Fact is...majority of american guns are owned by people not connected to the military. Meaning less training and safety around these weapons.
In regards to public carry, if you're a hunter with an appropriate license, you can carry.
All that said, i fucked up when i mentioned Switzerland, Germany is a better example, even more guns, no compulsory military service and a string of school shootings in the 2000-2010 era that never repeated themselves after some thought government action.
Posted by Mr_PinchyActive military may only be 150 thousand BUT all men are conscripted into service and retain their guns when they are released. Ergo 90% of swiss guns are in the hands of military, active or non-active.
I think you're off with those numbers anyway. There's like 2 million pieces of weapons in Switzerland, you say 90% is military, which would mean 1.8 million pieces. That's literally too much, for comparison China has one million active conscripts with 1.3 bill. population while Switzerland has 8 million ppl and 150.000 something active military, but in this number the administration and support staff is included as well so it doesn't represent the accurate number of soldiers.
In regards to public carry, if you're a hunter with an appropriate license, you can carry.
All that said, i fucked up when i mentioned Switzerland, Germany is a better example, even more guns, no compulsory military service and a string of school shootings in the 2000-2010 era that never repeated themselves after some thought government action.
Switzerland :45.7 guns per 100 residents (3.4 million guns fyi)
United States:88.8 guns per 100 residents. (270-310 million guns)
And again...only 20% of US guns are in the hands of military, active or non-active.
Germany had a string of horrific school shootings in 2002-2009ish until they cracked down hard on gun regulations. They also require psych tests if you wish to purchase. Minimum age to buy firearms there is 25 years as opposed to here in the states where it ranges from 21 to no minimum age in some states.
Posted by LadyNeptuneThey return their rifles at a certain age tho. 35 something i think it is. It's not like grandpa at 76 still has his WWII issued Mauser at home ready to be called up. The 90% of 3.x million you said above is simply an erroneous deduction, but that's not even the issue here.
Active military may only be 150 thousand BUT all men are conscripted into service and retain their guns when they are released. Ergo 90% of swiss guns are in the hands of military, active or non-active.
Posted by LadyNeptuneIt's not 25, it's 18. where do you get this info of yours?
Germany had a string of horrific school shootings in 2002-2009ish until they cracked down hard on gun regulations. They also require psych tests if you wish to purchase. Minimum age to buy firearms there is 25 years as opposed to here in the states where it ranges from 21 to no minimum age in some states.click to expand
Congrats on the banger firebunny
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