Victory for Christians vs. oppressive governments

This topic was created in the Miscellaneous forum by ScorpioFish on Monday, June 30, 2014 and has 27 replies.
Good for you, Hobby Lobby!
Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge
The Supreme Court ruled Monday that certain "closely held" for-profit businesses can cite religious objections in order to opt out of a requirement in ObamaCare to provide free contraceptive coverage for their employees.
The 5-4 decision, in favor of arts-and-crafts chain Hobby Lobby and one other company, marks the first time the court has ruled that for-profit businesses can cite religious views under federal law. It also is a blow to a provision of the Affordable Care Act which President Obama's supporters touted heavily during the 2012 presidential campaign.
"Today is a great day for religious liberty," Adele Keim, counsel at The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty which represented Hobby Lobby, told Fox News.
The ruling was one of two final rulings to come down on Monday, as the justices wrapped up their work for the session. The other reined in the ability of unions to collect dues from home health care workers.
Justice Samuel Alito wrote the majority opinion in the ObamaCare case, finding the contraceptive mandate in its current form "unlawful." The court's four liberal justices dissented.
The Obama administration, two years ago, already negotiated with religious-based schools, hospitals and other non-profits to reach an accommodation on the issue of contraception coverage. In the wake of Monday's ruling, the question now before the administration is how it might try to accommodate for-profit businesses that claim religious objections while also extending contraceptive coverage to female workers.
White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said Monday afternoon that the decision "jeopardizes the health of women who are employed by these companies," but said the administration would respect the ruling.
"We will work with Congress to make sure that any women affected by this decision will still have the same coverage of vital health services as everyone else," he said. Earnest did not get into specifics, saying they are still assessing the decision and trying to determine which companies are affected.
Alito suggested two ways the administration could ensure women get the contraception they want. It could pay for pregnancy prevention, he said. Or it could provide the same kind of accommodation made available to non-profits -- by letting the groups' insurers or a third-party administrator take on the responsibility of paying for
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Hey zero, when you are done preaching about the need for American women to kill their babies because it is an "essential right," I have a question for you.
Why do you believe it is appropriate for the government to strong-arm companies into providing pills that induce abortion?
Why are you so adamant about the homosexual movement and the baby killing industry?
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Posted by size zero superhero
Health care should be a universal commodity.


Hey you Bolshevik c*nt, why don't you move to North Korea and enjoy their universal commodities therein?
Hahaha, get your fur hat on and AK-47 out for anyone who opposes your will.
Bitch, national socialism is failing in Europe because of cunts like you mandating "free stuff" for everyone. They are all going dead broke paying for the "gidsmedat" hordes there. France, Italy, Portugal, Greece, hell they are all on their way to total economic collapse.
....And there you sit on your worthless ass telling us that we should adopt the same destructive policies for our "gibsmedat" class of idiots.
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"gidsmedat" = "gibsmedat"
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Posted by size zero superhero
I go to Michael's or A.C. Moore if I need quality art supplies. Hobby Lobby is a bonnet-wearing fundie hausfrau haven.


One can only imagine how much fun you are to fuck.
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SF, If I punch you in the nuts like real hard, will you call me a baby killer?
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Posted by size zero superhero
Since when does preventing conception equate to murder? And good call, I'm one of those diehard f@g-apologists because I don't think sexual orientation should factor into employment eligibility(under any circumstances).
Oh yeah, and hawking policies that lead to more unwanted children being born? That'll end well.
As a passionate "freedom fighter", do you not see the cognitive dissonance when the issue is a question of employers intervening in their staff's personal lives, reproductive health & medical issues?
Lemme guess...you know less than $ #!t about the various cancers prevented by taking hormonal birth control. Rather than basing your inferences on supporting science or statistics, your views seemingly come from petty emotions & misogyny, likely personal anger against women(as well gays, apparently).


Unwanted children? You are one ignorant cunt. Did it ever occur to you that Hobby Lobby has no problem with providing basic birth control options through their insurance plans? It was E-85 and a couple of other abortion inducing pills that they were against, and had to fight the full weight of the federal government to defend their Constitutionally protected rights.
You are a cunt because you are a neo-communist / national socialist / progressive by ideology. Your failed ideas have destroyed countless lives and industries over the past century.
National socialism is communism light, and neither socialism (or it's iron fisted cousin COMMUNISM) will ever work without seizing large quantities of money from the people.
Germany, France, Greece, etc....
They all do it. They literally seize half the salaries of their citizens to pay for their national socialism (Nazi) policies.
And I mock you as a communist because that's what you ultimately have to become to push socialism in the USA. You will have to KILL people like me with machine guns before your plans will viably work.
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Posted by Astrobyn
SF, If I punch you in the nuts like real hard, will you call me a baby killer?


You are psychotic, and it's no wonder why you have a hard time keeping a man in your life.
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E-85 = RU 486
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Posted by size zero superhero
prevented by taking hormonal birth control.


You are one ignorant cunt.
Hobby Lobby had no interest in preventing conventional birth control from being provided in their insurance programs with their employees.
It was RU 486 and a few other abortion inducing pills that they objected to.
You need to get your facts straight before you start calling someone ignorant on what is going on, bitch.
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Posted by Lucciferi
I sincerely hope you don't talk to females like this in person.


I reserve my fire for communists, socialists and "progressives" be they douches or cunts.
A douche like dickbreath or a cunt like zero will get what's coming to them because they represent the forces of destruction.
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Posted by Perspicacity
Posted by size zero superhero
This ruling means we'll probably see a whole grip of lawsuits in the near future, filed against companies that are opposed to hiring gays, or want to pay women lower wages than men, or don't believe married women should have the option of working...on the basis of of "sincerely held religious beliefs."
Moreover; our access to health care shouldn't be provided by employer(s)to begin with. Health care should be a universal commodity. This is just one of many reasons why it's wrong to hijack the necessity of health care in the name of corrupt capitalist profiteering.
For those who believe/assume the sole purpose of birth control is to prevent pregnancy--you are monumentally ignorant--if not genuinely too stupid to live.



Couldn't agree with you more, Zero. You always articulate your thoughts and rationalize subjects that just require common sense, rather well.
Try as you might, arguing with ScorpioFish is a lost cause, unfortunately. I think he thrives on inflammatory, hateful modes of conduct. The fact that he called you names just because you expressed your opinion is quite astonishing to me. There wasn't even an altercation between the two of you. Anger management, much?
Anyway. I find it odd that he would include "The Christian Victory". Is he proclaiming to be Christian? Christians are also adamantly against astrology and deem it the work of the devil. Bit hypocritical on his part, don't you think?
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Astrological symbols and meanings are represented throughout the Bible. It is very possible to be Christian, understand the symbolism of astrology, and believe that the planet earth evolved over long periods of time through Divine intervention.
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Are they refusing all contraception coverage (daily pill, NuvaRing, IUD, etc)? Or are they only against the idea of paying for abortions (surgical or pill abortion)?
If they want to exclude all birth control (preventative, not abortion), then I hope they're willing to allow maternity leave and coverage for prenatal needs.
If they're going to just fire her as soon as she's pregnant, then yes, they ought to provide coverage for birth control.
When it comes to abortions, I think it really should be up to the employer, especially after the earliest stages of pregnancy. To force someone to fund killing someone (which is what abortions after the first trimester literally amount to) seems just as dogmatic as militant pro-lifers wanting to actually ban abortion without exception.
HOWEVER, it needs to be a consistent policy outlined clearly to all employees. That way, both parties involved can make their own choices with their eyes wide open.
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Posted by ScorpioFish
Posted by Astrobyn
SF, If I punch you in the nuts like real hard, will you call me a baby killer?


You are psychotic, and it's no wonder why you have a hard time keeping a man in your life.
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Posted by size zero superhero
This ruling means we'll probably see a whole grip of lawsuits in the near future, filed against companies that are opposed to hiring gays, or want to pay women lower wages than men, or don't believe married women should have the option of working...on the basis of of "sincerely held religious beliefs."
Moreover; our access to health care shouldn't be provided by employer(s)to begin with. Health care should be a universal commodity. This is just one of many reasons why it's wrong to hijack the necessity of health care in the name of corrupt capitalist profiteering.
For those who believe/assume the sole purpose of birth control is to prevent pregnancy--you are monumentally ignorant--if not genuinely too stupid to live.


If birth control pills are for legit health reasons, then it wouldn't fall under 'birth control.'
I think.
But I'm fairly certain that's the case... it has been in the past, so no worries there.

This is really a victory for the free market; not religion.
Capitalism isn't the issue, either-- as you pointed out, it's corruption.
And the corrupt insurance industry has been raping people for years.
Obama's in bed with them-- soo nothing new to see, here.
:/

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Posted by Perspicacity

I don't know what kind of church you go to, but every Christian I've ever interfaced with, very quickly damned me to hell upon the very mention of astrology.

And out of curiosity.. Why are you so divisive?


Like I said, this site is loaded with people who find astrology fascinating, but have nothing but contempt for God in their hearts. A tiny, tiny minority of us know and acknowledge that God designed the zodiac and it's symbolism to create order and balance on this planet. It is HIS design that made it all possible. There are very few of us out there who know this, but we do exist.
As for the comment on being "divisive," it's because my family comes from Poland and Ireland. Two of Europe's most oppressed nations, and oppressed they were by the restraints of national socialism, communism and imperial brute force.
I do NOT play well with idiots who advocate these same tired and historically FAILED policies of communism, be they hard core communists or their diaper-wearing and light-weight cousins, the socialists.
I note the silence coming from these worthless bastards when they realize how RIGHT I am about their policies causing the nearing collapse of Europe's economy.
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Posted by munchkin
Are they refusing all contraception coverage (daily pill, NuvaRing, IUD, etc)? Or are they only against the idea of paying for abortions (surgical or pill abortion)?
If they want to exclude all birth control (preventative, not abortion), then I hope they're willing to allow maternity leave and coverage for prenatal needs.




No one is getting fired for being pregnant. Sheesh, you people need to read the USSC decision instead of posting nonsense to DXP.
Hobby Lobby provides 16/20 birth control opportunities to their female employees who qualify for them under their health insurance plans.
The communists, socialists and other losers on this website are crying "foul" because they insist that HL should now be sued into submission and provide RU-486 and the other 3 "Morning After" type shit.
I say, to hell with them. If you don't like HL's policy, then find another fucking job.
Using the full weight of the federal government and lawsuits only proves how awful these people truly are.
Go buy your own damn birth control pills, you pigs.
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Posted by size zero superhero
Just goes to show; religious convictions are one of the last socially-acceptable vehicles that allow the modern bigot to be outspoken about their prejudice(s).
I hate f@gs...because God
Women can't do X or Y--God SAID so!
Terrorism? Murder? Do it in the name of God & you're good to go
These people should ask themselves truthfully, what Jesus would do. In their heart of hearts, they must know the real answer to the age-old questiod, WWJD?: avoid their kind like the destructive plague they truly are.


Hahaha, so you are an atheist and a socialist? I can only IMAGINE real men getting into a line to talk to you, hahahaha.
And I never said "I hate fags" or any of that other garbage you are saying.
I am not a fan of homosexuals because of all the STDs (fatal and otherwise) that they spread.
Hell, the CDC just recently posted data that today's college-aged homosexual has a life expectancy of 50. Why? Because of the probabilities that AIDS and other fatal STDs will kill them all off.
Muslims commit terrorism in the name of Allah.
What other garbage are you spewing today?
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Posted by ScorpioFish
Posted by munchkin
Are they refusing all contraception coverage (daily pill, NuvaRing, IUD, etc)? Or are they only against the idea of paying for abortions (surgical or pill abortion)?
If they want to exclude all birth control (preventative, not abortion), then




No one is getting fired for being pregnant. Sheesh, you people need to read the USSC decision instead of posting nonsense to DXP.
Hobby Lobby provides 16/20 birth control opportunities to their female employees who qualify for them under their health insurance plans.
The communists, socialists and other losers on this website are crying "foul" because they insist that HL should now be sued into submission and provide RU-486 and the other 3 "Morning After" type shit.
I say, to hell with them. If you don't like HL's policy, then find another fucking job.
Using the full weight of the federal government and lawsuits only proves how awful these people truly are.
Go buy your own damn birth control pills, you pigs.
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I'm not claiming that this ruling says anything about firing pregnant women. I'm just saying that in the context of a world where pregnancy discrimination most certainly does exist, it would only be fair for companies such as Hobby Lobby to clearly disclose from the beginning which contraceptive methods they will and won't cover.
That way there should be no unpleasant surprises at crucial times.
If anything, full disclosure of policy should apply in general. Should be obvious, but stupid shit happens daily.
And this religious freedom (which I'm completely for, as long as there's full disclosure to those involved) ought to extend to all religions - so if a Native American business owner wants to cover medical peyote, they can. Big Grin
Also, HL apparently is lumping in IUDs with chemical abortions (RU-486). Doesn't make sense, because all an IUD does is prevent sperm from reaching the egg to fertilize it, much less implantation into the uterus, which is what most doctors would define as conception. Basically just an inner condom, if you will.
If they want to not cover that, that's fine, just disclose that. But I don't understand their logical reason why not, if they're willing to cover most other forms of BC.
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Smh @ dxp's miniscule text limit
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^^^^
It just got disclosed, munchkin. There was never a secret.
The gov't was forcing them to provide 'everything' and they fought it -- and won.
Now, what would be fair is if the gov't would take a hike, and let businesses run things as they see fit.
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Posted by CapTenn
^^^^
It just got disclosed, munchkin. There was never a secret.
The gov't was forcing them to provide 'everything' and they fought it -- and won.
Now, what would be fair is if the gov't would take a hike, and let businesses run things as they see fit.


+1
Though even if disclosed, the onus is on people to actually read them.
It amazes me how few people even skim disclaimers/policy terms. They just flip directly past them and sign away, as if looking at legal documents will give them instant cataracts or something. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them when something comes up and surprises them because they didn't even glance at them.
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Posted by size zero superhero
LOL @ "why don't they get a job somewhere else"...like anybody working at Hobby Lobby is there because they have vast employment options. Think again.
The case might've been entirely different--or a non-issue--had a company that paid its employees livable wages(read: in considerable excess of minimum hourly wages, unlike Hobby Lobby)refused to cover the expense birth control. That way, it could've been argued that the gainfully employed staff in question already had the means to pay for birth control.
If you work at a craft store that's best known for being closed on Sundays, it's probably safe to say the employees directly affected by their controversial policy AREN'T especially well-off.
To those griping over the gov't intervening in the affairs/policies of corporations for the good of the public--how would you feel about the government stepping in if it was an issue of big businesses putting lead paint on your children's toys, or manufacturing unsafe vehicles?
(Yeah, that's what I thought.)


Apples to oranges. Refusing to pay for someone's chemical abortion (RU-486) isn't going to cause illness or deaths.
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Posted by size zero superhero
Posted by munchkin
Apples to oranges. Refusing to pay for someone's chemical abortion (RU-486) isn't going to cause illness or deaths.


That isn't the only type of BC they've declined, though. And how can you be sure? Some people have health conditions where pregnancy CAN result in the carrier's death(sometimes birth control & condoms fail). And if so, that issue should only concern the individual & their healthcare provider--their employer shouldn't have a say.
Point being; corporations need to keep the rosaries away from ovaries.
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If you are so concerned with shoddy healthcare, take your socialist agenda the V.A.
They could use a few more champions like you.
When you can straighten out that gov't healthcare disaster out, come back and and chirp all you want.
Good luck. You'll need it.
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Posted by size zero superhero
Do you even know the definition of "socialism" or what it entails? You haven't demonstrated an understanding of the ideology at all, based on your usage/context.
Next.


That's what I thought? Blah blah blah
Don't want to defend your beloved gov't healthcare V.A. clusterf@ck?
Can't blame you.
Good day.
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Posted by size zero superhero
Posted by munchkin
Apples to oranges. Refusing to pay for someone's chemical abortion (RU-486) isn't going to cause illness or deaths.


That isn't the only type of BC they've declined, though. And how can you be sure? Some people have health conditions where pregnancy CAN result in the carrier's death(sometimes birth control & condoms fail). And if so, that issue should only concern the individual & their healthcare provider--their employer shouldn't have a say.
Point being; corporations need to keep the rosaries away from ovaries.
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Again, if it's for legitimate health reasons, even the Catholics are OK with that.
And further...

"... it??s worth noting that Hobby Lobby has no problem with contraception ??? it already provides birth control.
The company only took issue with abortion-inducing drugs, like the Morning After Pill.

#cSHIHIWrvhjRyHud.99">LINK

Soo... yeah.
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inb4

** Whether it induces abortion, literally-- I don't know.
Regardless, there is no issue with birth control.
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