compassion, love, friendship?
This topic was created in the Pisces forum by v-lady on Sunday, February 17, 2008 and has 24 replies.
The pisces in my life is an absolute darling, but he never seems to stop confusing me. Here's what's been going on.
He and I met a year ago, corresponded/chatted online regularly for 10-ish months (roughly 6-8 hours a week on average), saw each other for 24 hours in December, and have since continued our online chatting.
We're really, really comfortable with each other and can talk about everything under the sun. The sex is outstanding. He's got a girlfriend who he cheats on with all sorts of women and I've got a virgo I'm seeing who is not interested in a monogamous relationship. He lives in Europe, I don't. So we've got a lot of things that we absolutely adore about each other, but a relationship doesn't make sense.
We were chatting earlier this week and I told him that, when I started seeing my virgo in November, I had hoped it wouldn't move too fast in terms of emotional commitment because I wanted to be able to see him (my pisces) in December with a clear conscience. That turned into a long, long conversation about how shocked he was that I was waiting for him and about clarity between us and yada yada.
The conversation ended up with me telling him straight up that I had a crush on him, that I had had a crush on him for ages, that I knew he didn't share those feelings, and that I'm cool with it not being reciprocal. He was really, really, really flustered about it - more so than I've ever seen him before. He said he had been stupid not to realize it, he felt guilty, he wouldn't be able to talk to me about sex or anything anymore (we've always been upfront with each other about who we're sleeping with), and so on... I assured him that absolutely nothing was new from my perspective, but for some reason using the word "crush" threw him for a loop.
Here's the thing that surprised me. Since I told him this: he's been much more available online, he's talked a hell of a lot more than he usually does, and he's turned on the charm in a big way. He's kinder. He's gentler. He's different.
Something has changed for him. I know he cares about me and I know he's always been very protective of me emotionally. That's the same. We're really solid friends who sleep with each other when we're in the same city. We're cool talking to each other, but there's a new element in play now that I can't put my finger on.
What do you think has caused this shift in behavior?
He and I met a year ago, corresponded/chatted online regularly for 10-ish months (roughly 6-8 hours a week on average), saw each other for 24 hours in December, and have since continued our online chatting.
We're really, really comfortable with each other and can talk about everything under the sun. The sex is outstanding. He's got a girlfriend who he cheats on with all sorts of women and I've got a virgo I'm seeing who is not interested in a monogamous relationship. He lives in Europe, I don't. So we've got a lot of things that we absolutely adore about each other, but a relationship doesn't make sense.
We were chatting earlier this week and I told him that, when I started seeing my virgo in November, I had hoped it wouldn't move too fast in terms of emotional commitment because I wanted to be able to see him (my pisces) in December with a clear conscience. That turned into a long, long conversation about how shocked he was that I was waiting for him and about clarity between us and yada yada.
The conversation ended up with me telling him straight up that I had a crush on him, that I had had a crush on him for ages, that I knew he didn't share those feelings, and that I'm cool with it not being reciprocal. He was really, really, really flustered about it - more so than I've ever seen him before. He said he had been stupid not to realize it, he felt guilty, he wouldn't be able to talk to me about sex or anything anymore (we've always been upfront with each other about who we're sleeping with), and so on... I assured him that absolutely nothing was new from my perspective, but for some reason using the word "crush" threw him for a loop.
Here's the thing that surprised me. Since I told him this: he's been much more available online, he's talked a hell of a lot more than he usually does, and he's turned on the charm in a big way. He's kinder. He's gentler. He's different.
Something has changed for him. I know he cares about me and I know he's always been very protective of me emotionally. That's the same. We're really solid friends who sleep with each other when we're in the same city. We're cool talking to each other, but there's a new element in play now that I can't put my finger on.
What do you think has caused this shift in behavior?
Bueller... Bueller...
v-lady, I never responded to this because it seemed perfectly obvious to me and I figured it would you too .. it just had to catch up.
"Something has changed for him."
"but there's a new element in play now that I can't put my finger on."
"What do you think has caused this shift in behavior?"
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"The conversation ended up with me telling him straight up that I had a crush on him, that I had had a crush on him for ages"
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Why is this confusing? If it were the other way around and a man told you straight up that he had a crush on you, and had so for ages .. would this not be the element in which brought on a change in the terms of relating?
I'm really not grasping how this isn't evident to you. You changed the terms, regarding feelings in the game .. so he changed his game play.
Just as you would change your game play .. if he changed the terms of realting, regarding feelings.
"Something has changed for him."
"but there's a new element in play now that I can't put my finger on."
"What do you think has caused this shift in behavior?"
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"The conversation ended up with me telling him straight up that I had a crush on him, that I had had a crush on him for ages"
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Why is this confusing? If it were the other way around and a man told you straight up that he had a crush on you, and had so for ages .. would this not be the element in which brought on a change in the terms of relating?
I'm really not grasping how this isn't evident to you. You changed the terms, regarding feelings in the game .. so he changed his game play.
Just as you would change your game play .. if he changed the terms of realting, regarding feelings.
PA, thank you so much for taking the time to answer this. And while it may very well be evident to the rest of the world what's going on, I'm still really confused.
I told him that I had a crush on him. He told me that he really likes me, but that he doesn't have a crush on me. Why would he tell me that he doesn't have a crush on me and then act even nicer than before? Wouldn't he act the same?
I'm not suggesting that he actually does have a crush on me. I just don't know why he's being nicer. Happened again today. He's being extraordinarily considerate and more available than he's ever been before.
Is this all because I trusted him enough to show my feelings and now he's handling me with kid gloves?
I told him that I had a crush on him. He told me that he really likes me, but that he doesn't have a crush on me. Why would he tell me that he doesn't have a crush on me and then act even nicer than before? Wouldn't he act the same?
I'm not suggesting that he actually does have a crush on me. I just don't know why he's being nicer. Happened again today. He's being extraordinarily considerate and more available than he's ever been before.
Is this all because I trusted him enough to show my feelings and now he's handling me with kid gloves?
You changed the terms, regarding feelings in the game .. so he changed his game play.
I am trying so hard to understand this and something's simply not connecting in my head. I honestly don't get it.
Argh!
I am trying so hard to understand this and something's simply not connecting in my head. I honestly don't get it.
Argh!
This is why the friends-with-benefits thing pretty much *never* works...too complicated!
If he likes you the way you like him, he would be making that clear to you. If he wanted a relationship with you other than the one you have, he would make that clear to you as well. So, if you really are "cool" with your feelings not being reciprocated, then what's all the fuss about? If you were really fine with it, you wouldn't feel any need to analyze him.
"Why would he tell me that he doesn't have a crush on me and then act even nicer than before?"
More than likely, because he's your friend and he feels bad that you have feelings for him that he doesn't have for you...and he can probably sense that you really *aren't* "cool" about it.
"...but for some reason using the word "crush" threw him for a loop."
Well, I would think it would, because typically if you have a crush on someone, you flirt with them and maybe date them if they also have a crush on you. Or, you get over your crush and end up as friends. But this is the problem with mixing friendships with sex...you've blurred all the lines, and now you have a crush on your friend who you get it on with when he's not getting it on with his girlfriend and multiple other women who you like as more than a friend but you're okay if he doesn't like you that way.............CONFUSION, anyone?
Why are you wasting your time even trying to dissect this? If it was going somewhere "solid" or real at all, he wouldn't have wanted to blur all these lines, nor would you.
And don't you think both of you are being highly disrespectful to your significant others? Nothing about this liason is legit, or real, or meaningful. How would you feel if your boyfriend were pulling this kind of crap on you, behind your back? Ugh, you know, what goes around comes around. I'm not judging you; I don't need to. But you certainly need to size yourself and your actions up.
If he likes you the way you like him, he would be making that clear to you. If he wanted a relationship with you other than the one you have, he would make that clear to you as well. So, if you really are "cool" with your feelings not being reciprocated, then what's all the fuss about? If you were really fine with it, you wouldn't feel any need to analyze him.
"Why would he tell me that he doesn't have a crush on me and then act even nicer than before?"
More than likely, because he's your friend and he feels bad that you have feelings for him that he doesn't have for you...and he can probably sense that you really *aren't* "cool" about it.
"...but for some reason using the word "crush" threw him for a loop."
Well, I would think it would, because typically if you have a crush on someone, you flirt with them and maybe date them if they also have a crush on you. Or, you get over your crush and end up as friends. But this is the problem with mixing friendships with sex...you've blurred all the lines, and now you have a crush on your friend who you get it on with when he's not getting it on with his girlfriend and multiple other women who you like as more than a friend but you're okay if he doesn't like you that way.............CONFUSION, anyone?
Why are you wasting your time even trying to dissect this? If it was going somewhere "solid" or real at all, he wouldn't have wanted to blur all these lines, nor would you.
And don't you think both of you are being highly disrespectful to your significant others? Nothing about this liason is legit, or real, or meaningful. How would you feel if your boyfriend were pulling this kind of crap on you, behind your back? Ugh, you know, what goes around comes around. I'm not judging you; I don't need to. But you certainly need to size yourself and your actions up.
Just say it, PA! 
Alright ... he sees you as being an emotional manipulator for telling two men at the same time that you have feelings for both .. so he turned his game play up to draw you into him so he can destroy you.
Pisces are not like other people .. if someone attempts to gain attention by telling us about two people to whom you have feelings for, we process this as you trying to get us to win you over, fight for you, and we simply won't play the game .. your way.
We turn the tables around on you, instead.
Pisces are not like other people .. if someone attempts to gain attention by telling us about two people to whom you have feelings for, we process this as you trying to get us to win you over, fight for you, and we simply won't play the game .. your way.
We turn the tables around on you, instead.
I'm am not 19 years old and in an emotional whirlwind because I can't stop wondering why in the world he doesn't like me like I like him. I have a very good friend who I care about deeply. He's acting differently and I'd like to know why so I can avoid any sort of discomfort for him in the future. The fact that I have romantic feelings for him is, in some sense, almost tangential. I want to know what makes him tick, not why he's not in love with me.
If you were really fine with it, you wouldn't feel any need to analyze him.
I live to analyze my relationships. It's the very air I breathe emotionally. No, really. It is.
More than likely, because he's your friend and he feels bad that you have feelings for him that he doesn't have for you...and he can probably sense that you really *aren't* "cool" about it.
Why is it so hard to believe that a woman can accept an unreciprocated crush? Plus, I really don't think that a sense of pity is what's driving this. He's always been very compassionate and very empathetic, but pity? That's never, ever been what he's about.
.............CONFUSION, anyone?
This is actually very simple to me. We are very good friends and I have every reason to believe that won't change. He's acting differently. I'd like to know why - not to change him, but to understand more clearly how my thinking has impacted him.
Why are you wasting your time even trying to dissect this?
See above. I love analyzing the minutia of relationships.
I'm not judging you
Bullshit. Yes you are. That's fine with me - judge all you'd like. But don't even try and pretend there wasn't some serious moral fingerpointing in that paragraph.
And don't you think both of you are being highly disrespectful to your significant others?
When did I say I had a significant other? I have a virgo who I have sex with once a week, who is leaving town in a month, and who is adamant about letting me know he has nothing to offer me emotionally. So you're suggesting I place myself in some sort of victim role and pine after the virgo until he discovers that he loves me? You're suggesting that a woman in her 30's who has her biological clock ticking is not entitled to explore many relationship options as long as everyone involved understands that they're not in a monogamous relationship?
The pisces does have a significant other. That's something that he has to work through, not me.
If you were really fine with it, you wouldn't feel any need to analyze him.
I live to analyze my relationships. It's the very air I breathe emotionally. No, really. It is.
More than likely, because he's your friend and he feels bad that you have feelings for him that he doesn't have for you...and he can probably sense that you really *aren't* "cool" about it.
Why is it so hard to believe that a woman can accept an unreciprocated crush? Plus, I really don't think that a sense of pity is what's driving this. He's always been very compassionate and very empathetic, but pity? That's never, ever been what he's about.
.............CONFUSION, anyone?
This is actually very simple to me. We are very good friends and I have every reason to believe that won't change. He's acting differently. I'd like to know why - not to change him, but to understand more clearly how my thinking has impacted him.
Why are you wasting your time even trying to dissect this?
See above. I love analyzing the minutia of relationships.
I'm not judging you
Bullshit. Yes you are. That's fine with me - judge all you'd like. But don't even try and pretend there wasn't some serious moral fingerpointing in that paragraph.
And don't you think both of you are being highly disrespectful to your significant others?
When did I say I had a significant other? I have a virgo who I have sex with once a week, who is leaving town in a month, and who is adamant about letting me know he has nothing to offer me emotionally. So you're suggesting I place myself in some sort of victim role and pine after the virgo until he discovers that he loves me? You're suggesting that a woman in her 30's who has her biological clock ticking is not entitled to explore many relationship options as long as everyone involved understands that they're not in a monogamous relationship?
The pisces does have a significant other. That's something that he has to work through, not me.
he sees you as being an emotional manipulator for telling two men at the same time that you have feelings for both .. so he turned his game play up to draw you into him so he can destroy you.
Oh wow. Thanks for calling it like you see it, but wow. So none of what's going on here in terms of his change in attitude is based on caring or friendship.
I was talking to a (male) friend last night about this and he came up with a variant - that the pisces may not be into me, but that he has to step up his game and do something now that another man is on the scene. Your interpretation, PA, is much darker. I'm not saying it's inaccurate. It's just really dark.
Assuming he intends to pull me in and turn the tables, is this something that he would be actively conscious of? Do pisces know what they're doing when they're manipulative?
More importantly, is there anything that I could do to turn this around?
Oh wow. Thanks for calling it like you see it, but wow. So none of what's going on here in terms of his change in attitude is based on caring or friendship.
I was talking to a (male) friend last night about this and he came up with a variant - that the pisces may not be into me, but that he has to step up his game and do something now that another man is on the scene. Your interpretation, PA, is much darker. I'm not saying it's inaccurate. It's just really dark.
Assuming he intends to pull me in and turn the tables, is this something that he would be actively conscious of? Do pisces know what they're doing when they're manipulative?
More importantly, is there anything that I could do to turn this around?
Can't get over that idea that he might want to suck me in just to fuck with me. I'm not sure if it's because it's not accurate or because I simply don't want to believe it.
He's always, always said that he never wants to hurt me. He's told me that if I think he would in any way hurt me, I should let him know and he'd be gone.
He's also very much a pisces, as it took me a while to discover. He's occasionally pissy and moody. He's occasionally insecure and definitely needs positive reinforcement.
Hmpf.
He's always, always said that he never wants to hurt me. He's told me that if I think he would in any way hurt me, I should let him know and he'd be gone.
He's also very much a pisces, as it took me a while to discover. He's occasionally pissy and moody. He's occasionally insecure and definitely needs positive reinforcement.
Hmpf.
If he was upset at what I told him, why wouldn't he just disappear?
He's said this multiple times - "I like you very much. If I didn't, I wouldn't spend so much time talking to you." And the time investment really is considerable. 6-8 hours a week is quite a bit.
If he had the choice between being cruel and manipulative, and just closing down shop and drifting off, why wouldn't he do the latter?
He's said this multiple times - "I like you very much. If I didn't, I wouldn't spend so much time talking to you." And the time investment really is considerable. 6-8 hours a week is quite a bit.
If he had the choice between being cruel and manipulative, and just closing down shop and drifting off, why wouldn't he do the latter?
"that he has to step up his game and do something now that another man is on the scene"
No fucking way, v-lady .. not EVER. Under no circumstances will a Pisces fight, or play any kind of "win you over" game.
"is this something that he would be actively conscious of? Do pisces know what they're doing when they're manipulative?
Of course he's aware of it. Let me ask you something .. are you aware that you are manipulating him by telling him you have feelings for two men at the same time, while pretending it to just be a casual relationship?
"More importantly, is there anything that I could do to turn this around?"
Nope .... once the light goes off in our heads that someone is playing us, one of two things happen ..
1. we swim away .. erase you from our existence
2. stay to charm your pants off ... to fuck you over, then swim
No fucking way, v-lady .. not EVER. Under no circumstances will a Pisces fight, or play any kind of "win you over" game.
"is this something that he would be actively conscious of? Do pisces know what they're doing when they're manipulative?
Of course he's aware of it. Let me ask you something .. are you aware that you are manipulating him by telling him you have feelings for two men at the same time, while pretending it to just be a casual relationship?
"More importantly, is there anything that I could do to turn this around?"
Nope .... once the light goes off in our heads that someone is playing us, one of two things happen ..
1. we swim away .. erase you from our existence
2. stay to charm your pants off ... to fuck you over, then swim
Your best bet is to leave him alone now ... before you get hurt.
"If he had the choice between being cruel and manipulative, and just closing down shop and drifting off, why wouldn't he do the latter?"
Because he thought you meant your words when you told him that you were perfectly fine with just being friends with benefits, while having a Virgo boyfriend to whom you were feeling .... once you told him that you were "faking" this casual relationship because you really had feelings for him .. he knew at that point he was being decieved by you.
So, instead of just drifting away .. he's going to turn the tables around on you for being manipulative to him.
You are able to see this as him being manipulative .. but, are unable to see how this is the very thing you were doing to him by pretending to be friends, while having feelings for him all along.
You can't do that with a Pisces, v-lady ... or you'll get totally fucked over.
Because he thought you meant your words when you told him that you were perfectly fine with just being friends with benefits, while having a Virgo boyfriend to whom you were feeling .... once you told him that you were "faking" this casual relationship because you really had feelings for him .. he knew at that point he was being decieved by you.
So, instead of just drifting away .. he's going to turn the tables around on you for being manipulative to him.
You are able to see this as him being manipulative .. but, are unable to see how this is the very thing you were doing to him by pretending to be friends, while having feelings for him all along.
You can't do that with a Pisces, v-lady ... or you'll get totally fucked over.
I'm starting to understand my role in all of this and I'm really embarrassed at myself.
Just to make sure I understand... When I told him that I was fine with our friends with benefits relationship, he took me at face value. When I told him that I had a crush on him, he went back and concluded that me being ok with the friends with benefits situation was a lie?
I can see how he would find that manipulative. I really can. For me, it was just holding back on being open with my emotions. For him, I guess it he was operating according to a specific set of ground rules only to find out those weren't the rules at all.
This really sucks. What's worse is that he's online now - which I don't get. For a year, he's online twice, maybe three times a week. Since telling him this, he's been online daily.
Just to make sure I understand... When I told him that I was fine with our friends with benefits relationship, he took me at face value. When I told him that I had a crush on him, he went back and concluded that me being ok with the friends with benefits situation was a lie?
I can see how he would find that manipulative. I really can. For me, it was just holding back on being open with my emotions. For him, I guess it he was operating according to a specific set of ground rules only to find out those weren't the rules at all.
This really sucks. What's worse is that he's online now - which I don't get. For a year, he's online twice, maybe three times a week. Since telling him this, he's been online daily.
Well, I could be wrong .. everybody is different ... but, alls a person has to do is listen in here when people talk about this very issue to see it's a common trait with Pisces people.
If we sense deception .. we tear you down .. or swim .. one of the two. So, I don't think I'm very far off base here. Plus you said that he has a significant other ..
Think about that .. he has a woman he loves .. now suddenly, he's putting on the charm and going over the top to draw you in ..
.. it sounds pretty clear to me, but, I've been wrong many times in my life, and will be in the future .. so, you'll have to analyze this logically for yourself.
If we sense deception .. we tear you down .. or swim .. one of the two. So, I don't think I'm very far off base here. Plus you said that he has a significant other ..
Think about that .. he has a woman he loves .. now suddenly, he's putting on the charm and going over the top to draw you in ..
.. it sounds pretty clear to me, but, I've been wrong many times in my life, and will be in the future .. so, you'll have to analyze this logically for yourself.
I can't stay long, another surge is coming through and I'll be busy for a few weeks .. so I can't post too much more here on this v-lady .. but, I do want leave you with something to think about just for yourself. It really doesn't conern this man, except as an object.
During the spring and/or summer (however long) you were obssessed with this same Pisces man, and talking about how much you were really into him and had all kinds of loving feelings for him. It brought you in here to ask tons of questions to gain insight.
Then you met your Virgo man on the dating site and started putting your focus on securing him emotionally. At which time, you kept Pisces man on back-burner, just in case. Since November, when you met Virgo man, you've been asking all kinds of questions to try and figure out how to get him to open up and proclaim feelings for you because you were really crushing on him.
Virgo man has made it perfectly clear that he is only wanting a sexual relationship with you, and nothing more .. and so now, you're back on obssessing over feelings with the Pisces man again.
I use the word 'obssess' because that is how it appears to me. If a person's feelings for another is sincere, then there is no flipping back and forth. So, it appears to me that the issue is within yourself. You want to be loved so bad that you are looking for someone to show you love, without really feeling it for that other person.
Certainly, I understand conflicting emotions, and how painful it is for a woman to have to endure life without feeling emotionally nurtured. To have a man (person) embrace our hearts is something us women HAVE to have to feel sane and complete in this life ... so, this isn't meant as trying to point out a fault, rather, show you that this issue isn't within the Virgo man, nor the Pisces man .. rather yourself and your own need to be loved.
And in this need (which all us women have) .. it appears to me that it isn't important to you which man shows you interest. If the Virgo man did, then you would put energy in embracing him .. if the Pisces man did, then you would put energy in embracing him .. and what it all boils down to, from my perspective, is that you're not really sincerely loving either one of them for who they are, rather, an object for affection.
So, my whole point in saying this ... perhaps, you should step back and look at this from another angle to gain perspective.
During the spring and/or summer (however long) you were obssessed with this same Pisces man, and talking about how much you were really into him and had all kinds of loving feelings for him. It brought you in here to ask tons of questions to gain insight.
Then you met your Virgo man on the dating site and started putting your focus on securing him emotionally. At which time, you kept Pisces man on back-burner, just in case. Since November, when you met Virgo man, you've been asking all kinds of questions to try and figure out how to get him to open up and proclaim feelings for you because you were really crushing on him.
Virgo man has made it perfectly clear that he is only wanting a sexual relationship with you, and nothing more .. and so now, you're back on obssessing over feelings with the Pisces man again.
I use the word 'obssess' because that is how it appears to me. If a person's feelings for another is sincere, then there is no flipping back and forth. So, it appears to me that the issue is within yourself. You want to be loved so bad that you are looking for someone to show you love, without really feeling it for that other person.
Certainly, I understand conflicting emotions, and how painful it is for a woman to have to endure life without feeling emotionally nurtured. To have a man (person) embrace our hearts is something us women HAVE to have to feel sane and complete in this life ... so, this isn't meant as trying to point out a fault, rather, show you that this issue isn't within the Virgo man, nor the Pisces man .. rather yourself and your own need to be loved.
And in this need (which all us women have) .. it appears to me that it isn't important to you which man shows you interest. If the Virgo man did, then you would put energy in embracing him .. if the Pisces man did, then you would put energy in embracing him .. and what it all boils down to, from my perspective, is that you're not really sincerely loving either one of them for who they are, rather, an object for affection.
So, my whole point in saying this ... perhaps, you should step back and look at this from another angle to gain perspective.
Thanks PA. You're not saying anything that's new for me, but it's always good to hear it again.
I've mentioned before that I've been in Alanon a while now and one of the key elements to that program is working on not focusing on others, but rather on yourself. It's something I've been very bad at but, while it might not seem the case, I've also experienced some huge improvements.
Yes, at the end of the day I want to be loved. I also think that I'd jump at the opportunity to be in a relationship with either the virgo or the pisces. I'm not going to get into a relationship with just anyone, so it's not a desperation for a relationship (because I've done the whole "relationship at all costs" thing and that's no good either). It's just that these are two really spectacular men who I really value having in my life.
It's definitely awkward to be crushing out on two men at once. It's definitely legitimate to question the validity of my feelings for either. You're right to say that this ultimately comes down to me and me figuring out what I want and need.
I've mentioned before that I've been in Alanon a while now and one of the key elements to that program is working on not focusing on others, but rather on yourself. It's something I've been very bad at but, while it might not seem the case, I've also experienced some huge improvements.
Yes, at the end of the day I want to be loved. I also think that I'd jump at the opportunity to be in a relationship with either the virgo or the pisces. I'm not going to get into a relationship with just anyone, so it's not a desperation for a relationship (because I've done the whole "relationship at all costs" thing and that's no good either). It's just that these are two really spectacular men who I really value having in my life.
It's definitely awkward to be crushing out on two men at once. It's definitely legitimate to question the validity of my feelings for either. You're right to say that this ultimately comes down to me and me figuring out what I want and need.
I know you're struggling with this, that's why I said what I did. And you're not alone .. all of us women have to ask ourselves this question, probably more times in our life than we should.
If you look at all the threads in here, the majority of our problem is asking this very question, in all the various ways .. "Is it love?"
And for this very reason is why I don't believe in having sex with a person BEFORE having this clarity. It appears to me that for a woman to give of herself, physically, is a set-up for our judgement to become clouded. Like on the other thread (Virgo) .. it has been noted that women do, indeed, sleep with men simply because they want affection, to be loved. It leads to heartache .. and the evidence is all around us, as each and every woman comes in here and cries about how she put out her kitty in lieu of love.
Everytime a woman says something to the effect of .. thier hot, their sexy, men can't resist them, their gorgeous, thier anything that suggests that they embrace their sex appeal .. makes me gringe, because what they are actually focusing on, unbeknownst to themselves is ....
... I will use sex to draw the man in ... and to use sex to draw him in leads to being used sexually, while the heart breaks in half.
Anyway .. you know I don't mean for my words to hurt you in any way, thank goodness .. I'm trying to be straight.
Congratulations on your recovery with the help from Alanon
If you look at all the threads in here, the majority of our problem is asking this very question, in all the various ways .. "Is it love?"
And for this very reason is why I don't believe in having sex with a person BEFORE having this clarity. It appears to me that for a woman to give of herself, physically, is a set-up for our judgement to become clouded. Like on the other thread (Virgo) .. it has been noted that women do, indeed, sleep with men simply because they want affection, to be loved. It leads to heartache .. and the evidence is all around us, as each and every woman comes in here and cries about how she put out her kitty in lieu of love.
Everytime a woman says something to the effect of .. thier hot, their sexy, men can't resist them, their gorgeous, thier anything that suggests that they embrace their sex appeal .. makes me gringe, because what they are actually focusing on, unbeknownst to themselves is ....
... I will use sex to draw the man in ... and to use sex to draw him in leads to being used sexually, while the heart breaks in half.
Anyway .. you know I don't mean for my words to hurt you in any way, thank goodness
.. I'm trying to be straight.Congratulations on your recovery with the help from Alanon
"I'm am not 19 years old and in an emotional whirlwind because I can't stop wondering why in the world he doesn't like me like I like him."
I don't buy that, actually. I think a huge part of your problem is that you are trying to mask your insecurities about your worth to this man. No need to do that, it's natural to care as much as it's natural to want to mask insecurity, and no, I don't believe that you are dealing well with the fact that your feelings are unrequited. So, as much as you feel my statement was "bullshit", I believe you're full of your share as well.
My post came across as as harsh perhaps, and yours to me came across as phony (reason? See above) and extremely cold as well as self-centered. I don't think you're being compassionate to anyone's feelings in this situation but your own, as much as you try to spin it to seem as though you "just want to know what makes him tick" etc.
I think that you've been too easy a catch, and you've developed feelings, and now you wonder why things have become weird and he's acting different etc...As P Angel said, you changed the game, and he has changed his. You played with him, he knows it, no one likes that. Would you? I think it's a shame that you are so worried about your biological clock that you will put any man through any thing without any concern about the effects your actions might be having on these other people.
I think that your lesson here is to learn that it's not all about you...and as far as your "moral fingerpointing" statement: obviously I must have struck a nerve with you. That means something, pay attention to that. Deep down, you know very well that you have been manipulative in this situation. It is deplorable to manipulate people.
And if that's judgemental, I stand by it, because it's true.
I don't buy that, actually. I think a huge part of your problem is that you are trying to mask your insecurities about your worth to this man. No need to do that, it's natural to care as much as it's natural to want to mask insecurity, and no, I don't believe that you are dealing well with the fact that your feelings are unrequited. So, as much as you feel my statement was "bullshit", I believe you're full of your share as well.
My post came across as as harsh perhaps, and yours to me came across as phony (reason? See above) and extremely cold as well as self-centered. I don't think you're being compassionate to anyone's feelings in this situation but your own, as much as you try to spin it to seem as though you "just want to know what makes him tick" etc.
I think that you've been too easy a catch, and you've developed feelings, and now you wonder why things have become weird and he's acting different etc...As P Angel said, you changed the game, and he has changed his. You played with him, he knows it, no one likes that. Would you? I think it's a shame that you are so worried about your biological clock that you will put any man through any thing without any concern about the effects your actions might be having on these other people.
I think that your lesson here is to learn that it's not all about you...and as far as your "moral fingerpointing" statement: obviously I must have struck a nerve with you. That means something, pay attention to that. Deep down, you know very well that you have been manipulative in this situation. It is deplorable to manipulate people.
And if that's judgemental, I stand by it, because it's true.
You know, I am so sick of apologizing for myself whenever I get carried away emotionally. I'm emotionally flamboyant, but who is it hurting here? I write my questions here and I'm obsessive? I talk with friends about my feelings and that's somehow pathological? I'm going to revise some of my earlier statements and add some new ones.
There also seems to be this latent assumption that I go batshit over every man I sleep with. I have had the good fortune of meeting two wonderful men over the course of the past year that I've grown to care about very much. I've slept with others that were perfectly nice, but with whom there was no emotional click. I resent the implication that I'm some crazy-ass needy bitch who clings to every man who crosses her path.
Then you met your Virgo man on the dating site and started putting your focus on securing him emotionally. At which time, you kept Pisces man on back-burner, just in case.
That's not fair, PA. I've not kept anyone on the back burner just in case and suggesting that I have is attributing a Machiavellian instinct to me that I just don't possess. If anything, I'm genuinely torn between the two. As I said before - they're wonderful, amazing men. I have no problem with between torn between the two because I'm not in a committed relationship with either. If that came up, I'd make a choice then. Until that does, my heart and I are free agents.
Virgo man has made it perfectly clear that he is only wanting a sexual relationship with you, and nothing more .. and so now, you're back on obssessing over feelings with the Pisces man again.
Again, I don't blame you for seeing things this way, PA, but you're reading extremes into this where they don't exist. How can you not? You're working with the bits and pieces that I post.
The virgo has got some huge, huge issues that he's dealing with. I've been there for him as a friend and a lover. There is a definite emotional connection. Same goes for the pisces in terms of emotional connection.
It boggles my mind that I'm not being applauded for my consistency. I care deeply about the virgo and I've been constantly there for him (emotionally and physically) since we met almost 4 months ago. I know he cannot give me the stability of the relationship and yet my caring doesn't waver. I just get all twitchy when I don't understand him. Same with the pisces - I care, he can't give me what I want, I continue to care. I get twitchy when I don't understand h
There also seems to be this latent assumption that I go batshit over every man I sleep with. I have had the good fortune of meeting two wonderful men over the course of the past year that I've grown to care about very much. I've slept with others that were perfectly nice, but with whom there was no emotional click. I resent the implication that I'm some crazy-ass needy bitch who clings to every man who crosses her path.
Then you met your Virgo man on the dating site and started putting your focus on securing him emotionally. At which time, you kept Pisces man on back-burner, just in case.
That's not fair, PA. I've not kept anyone on the back burner just in case and suggesting that I have is attributing a Machiavellian instinct to me that I just don't possess. If anything, I'm genuinely torn between the two. As I said before - they're wonderful, amazing men. I have no problem with between torn between the two because I'm not in a committed relationship with either. If that came up, I'd make a choice then. Until that does, my heart and I are free agents.
Virgo man has made it perfectly clear that he is only wanting a sexual relationship with you, and nothing more .. and so now, you're back on obssessing over feelings with the Pisces man again.
Again, I don't blame you for seeing things this way, PA, but you're reading extremes into this where they don't exist. How can you not? You're working with the bits and pieces that I post.
The virgo has got some huge, huge issues that he's dealing with. I've been there for him as a friend and a lover. There is a definite emotional connection. Same goes for the pisces in terms of emotional connection.
It boggles my mind that I'm not being applauded for my consistency. I care deeply about the virgo and I've been constantly there for him (emotionally and physically) since we met almost 4 months ago. I know he cannot give me the stability of the relationship and yet my caring doesn't waver. I just get all twitchy when I don't understand him. Same with the pisces - I care, he can't give me what I want, I continue to care. I get twitchy when I don't understand h
Isn't it wasting time to keep treading water when you don't truly know where you stand with either of these men? (remember the clock?) Wouldn't you rather meet someone amazing, give it enough time before you sleep with them to know how you feel as well as how he feels, and then physically give yourself to him? Wouldn't doing this clarify everything, and cut out all the complication? Don't you feel like you've all muddied the waters to the point that all the real magic is diluted?
I say, start fresh, keep these ones as friends, and meet someone new. Don't give all of yourself so quickly, don't appear so easily won over, and you'll be able to tell by how much you're pursued how much the next one is really into you.
Everyone has issues, everyone could give a list of reasons as to why they shouldn't be in a relationship...it's the man who pursues you in spite of those things that is the keeper.
I say, start fresh, keep these ones as friends, and meet someone new. Don't give all of yourself so quickly, don't appear so easily won over, and you'll be able to tell by how much you're pursued how much the next one is really into you.
Everyone has issues, everyone could give a list of reasons as to why they shouldn't be in a relationship...it's the man who pursues you in spite of those things that is the keeper.
And by "pursues", I don't mean sexually. Most men will sexually pursue a woman who makes it easy for them.......for a time. And then they get bored, or weird, or disillusioned. I'm talking about full on pursuing. Making time for you, expressing in some way the way they feel about you, and showing you through their actions (instead of sex or mere words) that they are for real.
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