pisces shutting down feelings
This topic was created in the Pisces forum by v-lady on Sunday, January 4, 2009 and has 15 replies.
I've got a question about Pisces and the expression of their feelings that I hope the fabulous collective here might be able to help me with. I know that Pisces are incredibly feeling and empathetic and the rest - that I've got no issue with. What prompts them to shut down their expression of those feelings, though?
The Pisces I'm thinking of is an all-around wonderful person. He's also very shy (when it comes to revealing things about his inner workings), intensely private, and has this tendency to go completely cold when I'm expressing my feelings. The shyness and the privacy I get - when you're that nice of a person, you have to keep some things to yourself or else things simply become overwhelming. What I'd like to understand better is this shutting down aspect.
Example... I am saying goodbye to my Pisces after not having seen him for months. I'm sure we'll see each other again, but have no idea when. I start crying when I say goodbye and he just stands there and does nothing.
It's not a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but I don't really understand this back and forth. At times he can be very open and share quite a bit, other times he completely pulls away and rejects any form of intimacy. He's always kind, but when I'm expressing something I feel deeply he shuts down.
[And no, I don't express my feelings in the sort of "do this/change yourself/give me this"-way. I'm really good about keeping things to "I will miss you" or "I'm sad" and make sure there's no sort of blame or guilt involved.]
I really have no doubt about his affection for me (whether he sees me as a friend or whatever there's definitely some form of caring there). It's taken a while, but there's no longer any doubt in my mind that when he goes away he always comes back (he disappeared for 5 weeks over the holidays and when he resurfaced I acted like we had spoken the day before - that seems to have completely changed the depth of our conversations for the better). All that is well and good. Now I'm just trying to understand this aspect of his personality that I've never really been able to wrap my head around.
The Pisces I'm thinking of is an all-around wonderful person. He's also very shy (when it comes to revealing things about his inner workings), intensely private, and has this tendency to go completely cold when I'm expressing my feelings. The shyness and the privacy I get - when you're that nice of a person, you have to keep some things to yourself or else things simply become overwhelming. What I'd like to understand better is this shutting down aspect.
Example... I am saying goodbye to my Pisces after not having seen him for months. I'm sure we'll see each other again, but have no idea when. I start crying when I say goodbye and he just stands there and does nothing.
It's not a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but I don't really understand this back and forth. At times he can be very open and share quite a bit, other times he completely pulls away and rejects any form of intimacy. He's always kind, but when I'm expressing something I feel deeply he shuts down.
[And no, I don't express my feelings in the sort of "do this/change yourself/give me this"-way. I'm really good about keeping things to "I will miss you" or "I'm sad" and make sure there's no sort of blame or guilt involved.]
I really have no doubt about his affection for me (whether he sees me as a friend or whatever there's definitely some form of caring there). It's taken a while, but there's no longer any doubt in my mind that when he goes away he always comes back (he disappeared for 5 weeks over the holidays and when he resurfaced I acted like we had spoken the day before - that seems to have completely changed the depth of our conversations for the better). All that is well and good. Now I'm just trying to understand this aspect of his personality that I've never really been able to wrap my head around.
Thanks for the comments so far! I think some clarification might be in order...
I've known my Pisces for two years and, like any friendship, our relationship has grown deeper and closer over time. I'd say it's pretty reciprocal for the most part. He has his insecure days and so do I. Luckily they're never the same day and we take turns with the caretaking and ego mending. There's no real lack of balance in terms of who contacts who first. We're considerate about each other's feelings and have talked about everything under the sun.
In other words, this really isn't a case of me giving and giving and giving and hoping he'll finally give something back. Far from it. He does give emotionally. I do, too.
If I'm going to put this in a larger picture, I'd have to say it's about reading him emotionally. If I am trying to get an idea about how he feels, I have to do it by what he does rather than what he says. If he's feeling playful and affectionate, he (gently) teases me. If he's being flirty, he'll start speaking French. If he's hurt, he'll start being sarcastic.
Now I'm just trying to improve how well I speak Pisces and learn what the shutting down means.
I've known my Pisces for two years and, like any friendship, our relationship has grown deeper and closer over time. I'd say it's pretty reciprocal for the most part. He has his insecure days and so do I. Luckily they're never the same day and we take turns with the caretaking and ego mending. There's no real lack of balance in terms of who contacts who first. We're considerate about each other's feelings and have talked about everything under the sun.
In other words, this really isn't a case of me giving and giving and giving and hoping he'll finally give something back. Far from it. He does give emotionally. I do, too.
If I'm going to put this in a larger picture, I'd have to say it's about reading him emotionally. If I am trying to get an idea about how he feels, I have to do it by what he does rather than what he says. If he's feeling playful and affectionate, he (gently) teases me. If he's being flirty, he'll start speaking French. If he's hurt, he'll start being sarcastic.
Now I'm just trying to improve how well I speak Pisces and learn what the shutting down means.
Ive come to find out that Im pretty unemotional when others are emotional. I think I feel the need to be the strong one in that time. That if I was emotional too, we would both be a mess and we both cant be emotional at the same time. When my aunt died, I was very cold because I was more concerned about the pain of others. I guess it might also be a defense mechanism too. We are very emotional people, but I think in those moments, we feel the need to be strong for others.
We met two years ago, but we live in different countries. We have seen each other in person a few times since. Between those times, we spend about 10 hours a week chatting online. Our relationship is physical - we've known each other in the Biblical sense, but apart from the fact that we seem to really like each other and enjoy each other's company... that's really it.
When I say disappear, I mean that he went to see his family and didn't send any emails or chat messages or anything.
When I say disappear, I mean that he went to see his family and didn't send any emails or chat messages or anything.
This is a difficult question to answer .... for it's a general question, with a specific example.
As far as the doing nothing as you emotionally break-down during a good-bye .... I think his reaction is more just being male in a casual with sexual benefits relationship, then it is being a Pisces.
When you relate to him, v-lady, you make sure that you always maintain emotional strength, present an aire of confidence, independence, and mainly, you instill in him an acceptance that your relationship with him is perfectly fine, being absent of intimacy when not in each others physical presence.
You also said .. "Our relationship is physical - we've known each other in the Biblical sense, but apart from the fact that we seem to really like each other and enjoy each other's company... that's really it."
Which equals ==== you two sleep together === your relationship is a physical one.
While at the saem time, you two share online communication, which would leave the impression in mind that your communication online is a sexual one, since you say the relationship is a physical one.
And here is this strong woman, who is fully aware of the terms of the relationship ..... breaking down in tears.
That emotional breakage on a woman who displays emotional fortitude, would likely cause any man to put up a wall. And this wall isn't in place because he would normally be emotional distant with his woman .. it would be in place because this isn't his woman, it's his squeeze.
But, then from a Piscean characteristic .... it's likely a double-whammy because we can also put up this wall if we don't want to reciprocate feelings ... and we are also notorious for appearing to be cold when other people are in emotional distress.
We have an aversion for people who cannot control theirselves emotionally ... much like a Virgo
He probably was standing there astounded that you would allow yourself to break like that .... thinking, the world is not ending, nobody died, wtf is this suppose to mean? You have no emotional control and would allow yourself to be reduced to tears over something so insignicant? I mean, seriously, our relationship is an LDR .. I ALWAYS have to leave because we aren't a couple, we're just lovers .. so, what the hell is this?
That's just a guess though because I'm not male.
As far as the doing nothing as you emotionally break-down during a good-bye .... I think his reaction is more just being male in a casual with sexual benefits relationship, then it is being a Pisces.
When you relate to him, v-lady, you make sure that you always maintain emotional strength, present an aire of confidence, independence, and mainly, you instill in him an acceptance that your relationship with him is perfectly fine, being absent of intimacy when not in each others physical presence.
You also said .. "Our relationship is physical - we've known each other in the Biblical sense, but apart from the fact that we seem to really like each other and enjoy each other's company... that's really it."
Which equals ==== you two sleep together === your relationship is a physical one.
While at the saem time, you two share online communication, which would leave the impression in mind that your communication online is a sexual one, since you say the relationship is a physical one.
And here is this strong woman, who is fully aware of the terms of the relationship ..... breaking down in tears.
That emotional breakage on a woman who displays emotional fortitude, would likely cause any man to put up a wall. And this wall isn't in place because he would normally be emotional distant with his woman .. it would be in place because this isn't his woman, it's his squeeze.
But, then from a Piscean characteristic .... it's likely a double-whammy because we can also put up this wall if we don't want to reciprocate feelings ... and we are also notorious for appearing to be cold when other people are in emotional distress.
We have an aversion for people who cannot control theirselves emotionally ... much like a Virgo
He probably was standing there astounded that you would allow yourself to break like that .... thinking, the world is not ending, nobody died, wtf is this suppose to mean? You have no emotional control and would allow yourself to be reduced to tears over something so insignicant? I mean, seriously, our relationship is an LDR .. I ALWAYS have to leave because we aren't a couple, we're just lovers .. so, what the hell is this?
That's just a guess though because I'm not male.
The questions I responded to in my last post really got me thinking, so your comments are coming at a really good time, PA.
In a lot of ways, I think you're right on target...
you instill in him an acceptance that your relationship with him is perfectly fine: I do. We've spoken about my feelings of affection for him and he's told be very directly, "I'm giving you all that I can give." I care very much about him. Right now, I would rather have what he has to give than nothing at all. I get quite a bit out of this relationship (support, acceptance, laughter, sharing, etc.) and I value it greatly. This isn't me centering my life around him or waiting for him (I don't think, at least). I just have my life, do my things, and he's one part of that larger picture.
And here is this strong woman, who is fully aware of the terms of the relationship ..... breaking down in tears.: Indeed. In the two instances it's happened I've hated the uncertainty of not knowing when we'll see each other again, I'm sad that he can't give me what I want emotionally, and I'll miss him. That's enough to make me cry.
it would be in place because this isn't his woman: God I hate hearing this, but I also see how you're right. Same thing for the whole not being into people getting overly emotional. Painful, but it also resonates as being true.
And on other points I'd like to know more...
While at the saem time, you two share online communication, which would leave the impression in mind that your communication online is a sexual one, since you say the relationship is a physical one.: By and large, the online communication is far from sexual... It's about as non-sexual as you can get. We tell each other about how our days went. We talk about what's going on in our lives. We talk about books and movies and art. There are certainly moments where things get steamy, but I think that's about one in ten conversations (roughly once a month).
That's always been what's completely thrown me. How can someone be so caring and intimate and open online, but when physically present be completely shut down emotionally? I don't get it. In person - it's definitely all about the sex. We do other things, but sex is the main theme. Online - we're supportive and tender and funny and protective and romantic with each other.
(fuck this is long... sorry... I'm totally venting)
In a lot of ways, I think you're right on target...
you instill in him an acceptance that your relationship with him is perfectly fine: I do. We've spoken about my feelings of affection for him and he's told be very directly, "I'm giving you all that I can give." I care very much about him. Right now, I would rather have what he has to give than nothing at all. I get quite a bit out of this relationship (support, acceptance, laughter, sharing, etc.) and I value it greatly. This isn't me centering my life around him or waiting for him (I don't think, at least). I just have my life, do my things, and he's one part of that larger picture.
And here is this strong woman, who is fully aware of the terms of the relationship ..... breaking down in tears.: Indeed. In the two instances it's happened I've hated the uncertainty of not knowing when we'll see each other again, I'm sad that he can't give me what I want emotionally, and I'll miss him. That's enough to make me cry.
it would be in place because this isn't his woman: God I hate hearing this, but I also see how you're right. Same thing for the whole not being into people getting overly emotional. Painful, but it also resonates as being true.
And on other points I'd like to know more...
While at the saem time, you two share online communication, which would leave the impression in mind that your communication online is a sexual one, since you say the relationship is a physical one.: By and large, the online communication is far from sexual... It's about as non-sexual as you can get. We tell each other about how our days went. We talk about what's going on in our lives. We talk about books and movies and art. There are certainly moments where things get steamy, but I think that's about one in ten conversations (roughly once a month).
That's always been what's completely thrown me. How can someone be so caring and intimate and open online, but when physically present be completely shut down emotionally? I don't get it. In person - it's definitely all about the sex. We do other things, but sex is the main theme. Online - we're supportive and tender and funny and protective and romantic with each other.
(fuck this is long... sorry... I'm totally venting)
He's one of those people who would never do anything unless he wanted to and he's not one for lying about his feelings (far from it, now that I think about it). I've asked him about this and am pretty confident in the fact that he and I have been in touch so consistently and over such a long period of time because he enjoys our conversations. He's told me that he cares about me. He says he finds me attractive and very much enjoys sex together.
The emotional part is there (through the conversations). The physical part is there (through the sex).
Why is one so divorced from the other?
Having this question hanging over my head is the one thing about this relationship (for lack of a better word) that erodes my sense of dignity and self-esteem. I think I could understand it, I could let this feeling go and put the relationship more in line with how he's seeing it. That may very well be an excuse for not standing up and taking charge of my own feelings, but I'm also going to be honest about where I'm at mentally on this.
So given the length of all this, I'm thinking this is something that needed to come out. Thanks for providing a venue for me to do this.
The emotional part is there (through the conversations). The physical part is there (through the sex).
Why is one so divorced from the other?
Having this question hanging over my head is the one thing about this relationship (for lack of a better word) that erodes my sense of dignity and self-esteem. I think I could understand it, I could let this feeling go and put the relationship more in line with how he's seeing it. That may very well be an excuse for not standing up and taking charge of my own feelings, but I'm also going to be honest about where I'm at mentally on this.
So given the length of all this, I'm thinking this is something that needed to come out. Thanks for providing a venue for me to do this.
"Why is one so divorced from the other?"
I don't know, wish I did ... then I'd be able to fix my own life.
It is seperated, v-lady ... a disconnection. Maybe that's why we make such good artists, authors, actors ... the feelings are there, so fucking intense sometimes that it's literally everything we can do to keep breathing if we don't have an avenue to express them.
Yet, in person, face to face .... the bridge is broken, we fall into the cracks if approached, so we remain completely tuned-out on the surface for you-all, while inside we are screaming our fool heads off about how much we feel.
You know what? Here's an example, something I've done so many times in my life that it's pathetic really .... during a physical experience with somebody, and this could be anybody (partner, sibling, boss, friend, stranger), I won't say anything that is concise about how I feel about something, instead, I'll remain totally elusive, scatter-brained even, or totally ignorant .... only later to express EXACTLY what I felt, while alone.
Completely alone ... this comes out full force. I'll scream driving down the road, or I'll paint how I feel, or I'll write a short story where the plot and theme are centered around this feeling, or I'll take a walk in the forest (my backyard is a forest) and release onto nature if the feelings were loving and give to objects in which cannot respond to me (trees/animals) all these feelings of love.
But, NOT to the person .. to the person, the connection is severed.
I don't know why .... I have a guess at it, and have described this guess in dxp several times. But, I really don't know why it's there. How can a person feel so deeply and not be able to let it out?
It hurts .. sometimes so bad that a Fish just wants to die.
I don't know, wish I did ... then I'd be able to fix my own life.
It is seperated, v-lady ... a disconnection. Maybe that's why we make such good artists, authors, actors ... the feelings are there, so fucking intense sometimes that it's literally everything we can do to keep breathing if we don't have an avenue to express them.
Yet, in person, face to face .... the bridge is broken, we fall into the cracks if approached, so we remain completely tuned-out on the surface for you-all, while inside we are screaming our fool heads off about how much we feel.
You know what? Here's an example, something I've done so many times in my life that it's pathetic really .... during a physical experience with somebody, and this could be anybody (partner, sibling, boss, friend, stranger), I won't say anything that is concise about how I feel about something, instead, I'll remain totally elusive, scatter-brained even, or totally ignorant .... only later to express EXACTLY what I felt, while alone.
Completely alone ... this comes out full force. I'll scream driving down the road, or I'll paint how I feel, or I'll write a short story where the plot and theme are centered around this feeling, or I'll take a walk in the forest (my backyard is a forest) and release onto nature if the feelings were loving and give to objects in which cannot respond to me (trees/animals) all these feelings of love.
But, NOT to the person .. to the person, the connection is severed.
I don't know why .... I have a guess at it, and have described this guess in dxp several times. But, I really don't know why it's there. How can a person feel so deeply and not be able to let it out?
It hurts .. sometimes so bad that a Fish just wants to die.
And we love for you to come here, v-lady .... you can vent here anytime you want to.
OMG!!! He totally does that thing with keeping his feelings in!!!
Last time we saw each other was the end of September and that was where I was crying and he just sort of stood there and gave me a pat on the shoulder in this brotherly sort of way. We say goodbye and go on our merry ways.
The next online conversation we have, he bring up that night (we spent one night together, the next morning he felt sick so I did my thing during the day and we only hung out in his hotel talking for a bit that evening). The conversation after that, he starts saying all the things that I wished he had said to my face... how sorry he was that the day didn't work out the way he wanted, nice to see me, etc...
Maybe I'm just looking for some validation here, but can anyone understand how I can be confused about this? My intuition is telling me he cares, I get mixed messages (the whole online/offline thing), and I'm really hyper-tuned in to the possibility that I might only be looking at what I want to see.
Last time we saw each other was the end of September and that was where I was crying and he just sort of stood there and gave me a pat on the shoulder in this brotherly sort of way. We say goodbye and go on our merry ways.
The next online conversation we have, he bring up that night (we spent one night together, the next morning he felt sick so I did my thing during the day and we only hung out in his hotel talking for a bit that evening). The conversation after that, he starts saying all the things that I wished he had said to my face... how sorry he was that the day didn't work out the way he wanted, nice to see me, etc...
Maybe I'm just looking for some validation here, but can anyone understand how I can be confused about this? My intuition is telling me he cares, I get mixed messages (the whole online/offline thing), and I'm really hyper-tuned in to the possibility that I might only be looking at what I want to see.
I understand your confusion
Sorry I cannot talk any longer right now ... my head is all fucked up at the moment, and the only thing I can really process is that posts are out of sequence and that should be an impossibility, since in real-time, they were posted in a certain order.
Fuck
v-lady, I cannot talk. I'll come back later.
Sorry I cannot talk any longer right now ... my head is all fucked up at the moment, and the only thing I can really process is that posts are out of sequence and that should be an impossibility, since in real-time, they were posted in a certain order.
Fuck
v-lady, I cannot talk. I'll come back later.
You aren't looking at only what you want to see, at least not in this instance .... there is a noticeable disconnection here with Pisceans.
What I do find interesting though .... you'd be hard-pressed to find a Fish who is aware of this, eventhough we view ourselves as being very self-aware individuals. From the average Piscean perspective, we would view ourselves as being open and upfront on how we feel about things. For the most part, Pisces people really have no clue that they are being percieved as being disconnected from expressing themselves in the manner in which other people need.
We view it as being a necessary for ourselves, in that we do it on purpose for self-protection .... when in reality, it's an unconscious trait that reacts first, and then sends a message to our brains for justification ... not the other way around.
What I do find interesting though .... you'd be hard-pressed to find a Fish who is aware of this, eventhough we view ourselves as being very self-aware individuals. From the average Piscean perspective, we would view ourselves as being open and upfront on how we feel about things. For the most part, Pisces people really have no clue that they are being percieved as being disconnected from expressing themselves in the manner in which other people need.
We view it as being a necessary for ourselves, in that we do it on purpose for self-protection .... when in reality, it's an unconscious trait that reacts first, and then sends a message to our brains for justification ... not the other way around.
I don't know if this is something I'm even capable of figuring out. I can definitely say it breaks my heart to read what you're all saying about that duality. I very much see and understand that shyness and need among Pisces to protect themselves. I see how it extends to not being able to express emotions directly. It makes sense and it also brings out my more protective side. So I get it.
I've also got to add that I'm unclear on where to go from here, but I think that's something I might just have to figure out myself.
I've also got to add that I'm unclear on where to go from here, but I think that's something I might just have to figure out myself.
alot of the women on here are hypocrits
No need to beat around the bush.
all that bizness about you willing to accept what he will give you
Could you clarify that?
what happened to all your 12 step program crap that you told me
What happened to all that 12 step crap is that I've put it into action with my Pisces. There's no manipulation. There's some confusion on my part because I'd like to understand him and the situation better. Neither of us have marriages to throw away. Neither of us have children whose well being are being compromising. It's not perfect, but there's no real harm being done here. In fact, I think there's a case to be made for it being one of the most healing relationships I've had in my life. He's taught me quite a bit about loving myself and I'll always be grateful to him for that.
If you see something that I can't, please be more specific about identifying what it is.
don't you deserve more than someone who only wants you on his terms?
I certainly do think I deserve more than that. What makes you think that I don't lay down rules as well? I am unclear on how I've presented myself as a victim in this situation because that's not how I feel. I've got my limits and I have my frustrations. Those get shared with my Pisces to the extent that I feel it's useful and productive to talk about them.
This question about my Pisces clamming up and going distant... that's not something that has to do with "us" and, therefore, that's not something I should try and change. If I am upset that he didn't say or do something that I thought was important, I share that with him and the problem is solved. The issue that these posts here are about is more fundamental to who he is as a person, not our friendship.
Anyone who would ever ask my Pisces to change who he is as a person is a fool. I don't want him to change. What I want is to understand where he's coming from so I don't blame myself for something that's really all about him.
he's never gonna make you any more than a booty call because you have set it up that way. atleast that's the advice i got from most of the women on here with my dilemma.
I read your thread thoroughly and failed to see the comments where women called you a booty call. In fact, I think you made it quite clear that you haven't had sex with him since your marriage 10? 11? years ago. It's difficult to be a booty call if you're not sleeping with someone.
(fuck!
No need to beat around the bush.
all that bizness about you willing to accept what he will give you
Could you clarify that?
what happened to all your 12 step program crap that you told me
What happened to all that 12 step crap is that I've put it into action with my Pisces. There's no manipulation. There's some confusion on my part because I'd like to understand him and the situation better. Neither of us have marriages to throw away. Neither of us have children whose well being are being compromising. It's not perfect, but there's no real harm being done here. In fact, I think there's a case to be made for it being one of the most healing relationships I've had in my life. He's taught me quite a bit about loving myself and I'll always be grateful to him for that.
If you see something that I can't, please be more specific about identifying what it is.
don't you deserve more than someone who only wants you on his terms?
I certainly do think I deserve more than that. What makes you think that I don't lay down rules as well? I am unclear on how I've presented myself as a victim in this situation because that's not how I feel. I've got my limits and I have my frustrations. Those get shared with my Pisces to the extent that I feel it's useful and productive to talk about them.
This question about my Pisces clamming up and going distant... that's not something that has to do with "us" and, therefore, that's not something I should try and change. If I am upset that he didn't say or do something that I thought was important, I share that with him and the problem is solved. The issue that these posts here are about is more fundamental to who he is as a person, not our friendship.
Anyone who would ever ask my Pisces to change who he is as a person is a fool. I don't want him to change. What I want is to understand where he's coming from so I don't blame myself for something that's really all about him.
he's never gonna make you any more than a booty call because you have set it up that way. atleast that's the advice i got from most of the women on here with my dilemma.
I read your thread thoroughly and failed to see the comments where women called you a booty call. In fact, I think you made it quite clear that you haven't had sex with him since your marriage 10? 11? years ago. It's difficult to be a booty call if you're not sleeping with someone.
(fuck!
Sorry for ending that with an explicative. I meant to say "Fuck! Why are my posts so long today?"
But I digress...
i may be in love with someone other than my husband, but atleast i had sense enuff to pick a good husband
This just makes you sound like a nasty, vindictive little bitch spewing out vitriol because I didn't kiss your ass on your thread about leaving your husband and children for someone you had a three-month fling with ten years ago.
But I digress...
i may be in love with someone other than my husband, but atleast i had sense enuff to pick a good husband
This just makes you sound like a nasty, vindictive little bitch spewing out vitriol because I didn't kiss your ass on your thread about leaving your husband and children for someone you had a three-month fling with ten years ago.
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It's really cool.:) Part 1, part 2, part 3. I've only just finished the first part and my favorites are the marine a
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Joined: Sep 07, 2007 · Topics: 81 · Posts: 2655