Predestination, Free Will, or Both?
This topic was created in the Pisces forum by ~mystic_fish on Monday, February 5, 2007 and has 12 replies.
Are we victims of inescapable fate, or do we really have the power to create our own destiny?
Some thoughts to ponder;
-'The more we exercise our free will, the more open and aware we become to the opportunities that surround us. Opportunities that many simply don't notice, blinded by the drug of routine.'
-'We should be sensitive to fate and what it tells us about our true purpose. But beware of using fate as an excuse for failure. "I was unlucky", "circumstances were against me", etc etc. Such things may be true, but before adopting them be sure you have exercised your will to the best of your ability.'
-'Our free will is our greatest gift. The spark of the human spirit. It is what separates us from piece of rock.'
-'Within the strictures of Fate, we make choices.'
"we create reality with our thoughts." -how much of this is true??
-also, can our fate determine anothers?? Is human fate interdependant to an extent?
Quoting: Curtis Manwaring:
"Currently astrologers tend to believe in freedom of choice. We have all heard the phrase "The stars impel, but do not compel". I should digress a bit and tell you that "free will" is an oxymoron. For this reason I prefer the term free choice. If you think about it, the will is not really free, but is a source of determination. If it could not be a source of determination then it would not be a will at all."
Some thoughts to ponder;
-'The more we exercise our free will, the more open and aware we become to the opportunities that surround us. Opportunities that many simply don't notice, blinded by the drug of routine.'
-'We should be sensitive to fate and what it tells us about our true purpose. But beware of using fate as an excuse for failure. "I was unlucky", "circumstances were against me", etc etc. Such things may be true, but before adopting them be sure you have exercised your will to the best of your ability.'
-'Our free will is our greatest gift. The spark of the human spirit. It is what separates us from piece of rock.'
-'Within the strictures of Fate, we make choices.'
"we create reality with our thoughts." -how much of this is true??
-also, can our fate determine anothers?? Is human fate interdependant to an extent?
Quoting: Curtis Manwaring:
"Currently astrologers tend to believe in freedom of choice. We have all heard the phrase "The stars impel, but do not compel". I should digress a bit and tell you that "free will" is an oxymoron. For this reason I prefer the term free choice. If you think about it, the will is not really free, but is a source of determination. If it could not be a source of determination then it would not be a will at all."
"Are we victims of inescapable fate, or do we really have the power to create our own destiny?"
I guess you mean wether we have ability to control consequences of our actions. Well probably no. But we can learn to make better decisions. Not everyone is in possesion of this wisdom. Most of people don't even try.
"-'The more we exercise our free will, the more open and aware we become to the opportunities that surround us. Opportunities that many simply don't notice, blinded by the drug of routine.'"
If I get you correctly: By excersising your free will, you create new experiences or point yourself the it's source. If this is true, then yes, you open new experiences for yourself. But not every choise brings positive result. It's like try and fail try and success way. However, in todays world, the most valuable experiences are gained through good financial background. You can try to read books, talk to people (if people are talkative to you) but all this is very limited. What you experience when see things yourself, might not experience anyone the same way as you. So other things that your own experience coud be very unreliable. But this requires alot of finance.
"-'We should be sensitive to fate and what it tells us about our true purpose. But beware of using fate as an excuse for failure. "I was unlucky", "circumstances were against me", etc etc. Such things may be true, but before adopting them be sure you have exercised your will to the best of your ability.'"
Perhaps it depends on person. If you are from good family, have got good education and experience, your chance for fail is much lesser when compared to an ordinary one. Perhaps there is some limit, when such failrues aren't so destructive on your material being and therefore psyche, so you ignore it and continue to experiment. But very few people start their lives in above of that limit.
Perhaps the only choise for such people is to unite and put their dreams into queue (in accordance of it's importance) and experiment. This seems to be the only way sometimes. Life is difficult unfortunately and some people simply are not strong enough to go upper than certain level. What a waste of resources...World is simply cruel. It benefits few sacrificing the most. Only today I have read that 1 billion people in the world earn 1 $ day. 1 BILLION! And only 10% of world population holds 85% of worlds income. 2 most rich people in UK earn the same money per year with 1 billion people. 2 people =
I guess you mean wether we have ability to control consequences of our actions. Well probably no. But we can learn to make better decisions. Not everyone is in possesion of this wisdom. Most of people don't even try.
"-'The more we exercise our free will, the more open and aware we become to the opportunities that surround us. Opportunities that many simply don't notice, blinded by the drug of routine.'"
If I get you correctly: By excersising your free will, you create new experiences or point yourself the it's source. If this is true, then yes, you open new experiences for yourself. But not every choise brings positive result. It's like try and fail try and success way. However, in todays world, the most valuable experiences are gained through good financial background. You can try to read books, talk to people (if people are talkative to you) but all this is very limited. What you experience when see things yourself, might not experience anyone the same way as you. So other things that your own experience coud be very unreliable. But this requires alot of finance.
"-'We should be sensitive to fate and what it tells us about our true purpose. But beware of using fate as an excuse for failure. "I was unlucky", "circumstances were against me", etc etc. Such things may be true, but before adopting them be sure you have exercised your will to the best of your ability.'"
Perhaps it depends on person. If you are from good family, have got good education and experience, your chance for fail is much lesser when compared to an ordinary one. Perhaps there is some limit, when such failrues aren't so destructive on your material being and therefore psyche, so you ignore it and continue to experiment. But very few people start their lives in above of that limit.
Perhaps the only choise for such people is to unite and put their dreams into queue (in accordance of it's importance) and experiment. This seems to be the only way sometimes. Life is difficult unfortunately and some people simply are not strong enough to go upper than certain level. What a waste of resources...World is simply cruel. It benefits few sacrificing the most. Only today I have read that 1 billion people in the world earn 1 $ day. 1 BILLION! And only 10% of world population holds 85% of worlds income. 2 most rich people in UK earn the same money per year with 1 billion people. 2 people =
2 people = 1 billion. Go figure! Isnt that cruel? And we talk about sharing, about having no war, how could that not happen?
Maybe this qute is true.
"Most people are followers, not leaders"
They follow someone who brings them to the grave. Simple as that. This is where controling your fate kicks in. Because a person who leads, cannot agree with fate. They have to have an urge to control their fates. Otherwise they cannot become leaders. Most of this world is producing people to follow, not to lead.
" -'Our free will is our greatest gift. The spark of the human spirit. It is what separates us from piece of rock.'"
True. But free will is not enough to make big changes. Knowledge and money is required. Ballancing those three is the most difficult. But you cant get anywhere without trying. You can't even have a chance.
" -'Within the strictures of Fate, we make choices.'"
Depends on your perception. If you train your perception, things that were been previously out of your fate structure will become part of this structure in your next endavour.
However I must add here something..No matter how hard you try, there are still limits. This is people. You can't apply certain ideas on people if they are not ready for it. Sometimes the tire required for this readiness could be more than your lifetime. Therefore, you can't know what you will get until you know what conditions you are living in.
" "we create reality with our thoughts." -how much of this is true??"
If your thoughts can manipulate reality, then yes, it's true. So again, depend on you and people around you.
Maybe this qute is true.
"Most people are followers, not leaders"
They follow someone who brings them to the grave. Simple as that. This is where controling your fate kicks in. Because a person who leads, cannot agree with fate. They have to have an urge to control their fates. Otherwise they cannot become leaders. Most of this world is producing people to follow, not to lead.
" -'Our free will is our greatest gift. The spark of the human spirit. It is what separates us from piece of rock.'"
True. But free will is not enough to make big changes. Knowledge and money is required. Ballancing those three is the most difficult. But you cant get anywhere without trying. You can't even have a chance.
" -'Within the strictures of Fate, we make choices.'"
Depends on your perception. If you train your perception, things that were been previously out of your fate structure will become part of this structure in your next endavour.
However I must add here something..No matter how hard you try, there are still limits. This is people. You can't apply certain ideas on people if they are not ready for it. Sometimes the tire required for this readiness could be more than your lifetime. Therefore, you can't know what you will get until you know what conditions you are living in.
" "we create reality with our thoughts." -how much of this is true??"
If your thoughts can manipulate reality, then yes, it's true. So again, depend on you and people around you.
hey, thanks for all your clever responses haffo, they make alot of sense..
"Only today I have read that 1 billion people in the world earn 1 $ day. 1 BILLION! And only 10% of world population holds 85% of worlds income. 2 most rich people in UK earn the same money per year with 1 billion people. 2 people = 1 billion. Go figure! Isnt that cruel? And we talk about sharing, about having no war, how could that not happen?"
wow, that is some statistic; i agree, it is very cruel, especially in this modern day and age of abundant world-wide resources, there is no exuse, only neglect, selfishness and greed for the most part; the disparity and inequality is still very alarming, something's going to give that's for sure...
"Only today I have read that 1 billion people in the world earn 1 $ day. 1 BILLION! And only 10% of world population holds 85% of worlds income. 2 most rich people in UK earn the same money per year with 1 billion people. 2 people = 1 billion. Go figure! Isnt that cruel? And we talk about sharing, about having no war, how could that not happen?"
wow, that is some statistic; i agree, it is very cruel, especially in this modern day and age of abundant world-wide resources, there is no exuse, only neglect, selfishness and greed for the most part; the disparity and inequality is still very alarming, something's going to give that's for sure...
Bump ..
Hmmm...I think it's a little of both, maybe. I believe we choose the lessons we want to learn and the people and situations we will learn them from before we come here, but that we always have free will to choose not to take that path. Or maybe even to take detours. But that there are consequences for losing our way. Does that make sense?
You are told by your ego that you have free will, because it wants you to continue thinking that you have to do something to be awarded your soul .. it doesn't want you to know the thruth.
It doesn't want you to know that you don't have a soul .. it wants you to believe you have a body.
It doesn't want you to know that you don't have a soul .. it wants you to believe you have a body.
It doesn't want you to know that you don't have a soul .. it wants you to believe you have a body.
** correction
..... it wants you to believe that you are in body
** correction
..... it wants you to believe that you are in body
Hmm....well that does make sense. The illusion of free will. But are there maybe certain situations where you do have it? Like less life altering ones, I mean.
Two things we can be certain of:
1) we're destined to not find answers to this question (not in this life, anyway).
2) we're destined to keep asking these questions, despite # 1
1) we're destined to not find answers to this question (not in this life, anyway).
2) we're destined to keep asking these questions, despite # 1
That's where you would be wrong .. I know the answer ... so what you said is definitely not a certainty, as you claimed.
Posted by KingPisces
There are certain things for which were predefined and set up for us. Our genes, our places of birth, our parents, our families....Things like that.
Yeah, I agree. I think we probably choose those things for ourselves, don't you? I mean who would better know what lesson one needs to learn than ourselves. Also, I sometimes wonder if being a Pisces means you're on your last life here...having pieces of all the other signs and everything. Would make sense if it's the end of a journey.
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