Chinese Crackdown in Lhasa
This topic was created in the Politics forum by red_aries on Thursday, March 20, 2008 and has 12 replies.
Chinese Crakdown in Lhasa
What do you think of this.
What do you think of this.
India has traditionally been sympathetic to Tibet's cause but then it has Kashmir and some North Eastern states asking for independence. And now it has decided to do what China has to dictate on this matter - no support for Tibetan resistance. Perhaps itz an ackonwledgement of China's growing statture and a reconciliation to what is pragmatic.
But China's territorial hunger is both perplexing and intimidating. And anyways the general feeling is that China is being run by ruthless tyrants and it will actually stop at nothing to show itz might in the future. Personally, I don't see China as a responsible power - the thinking still seems to be narrow and the regime is oppressive. But then a powerful neighbour always evokes fear and suspicion, so I may be biased. I really haven't read up on Tibet's history of independence, but it appears that they are of clearly distinct ethnicity and may have been right in asking for a separate nation. In fact this issue has forced me think about the aspirations of some people in India who actually don't want remain a part of the Union.
Itz really complex and difficult to come to terms with - territorial integrity as against the liberal values of freedom and human rights. I think itz natural for minorities to seek autonomy/self-rule and eventually freedom in the region they are concentrated in ( as has been the trend lately ), but it poses a very grave challenge to those in majority who are responsible for governance. The only way to sustain a Union is to make all groups feel and believe that they actually are the masters of their own destiny and that the abstract notion of a nation is actually a way to pool and optimize resources and a safeguard against foreign hostility. But the pre-requisite is that there should at least be some semblance of connection between diverse groups.
But China's territorial hunger is both perplexing and intimidating. And anyways the general feeling is that China is being run by ruthless tyrants and it will actually stop at nothing to show itz might in the future. Personally, I don't see China as a responsible power - the thinking still seems to be narrow and the regime is oppressive. But then a powerful neighbour always evokes fear and suspicion, so I may be biased. I really haven't read up on Tibet's history of independence, but it appears that they are of clearly distinct ethnicity and may have been right in asking for a separate nation. In fact this issue has forced me think about the aspirations of some people in India who actually don't want remain a part of the Union.
Itz really complex and difficult to come to terms with - territorial integrity as against the liberal values of freedom and human rights. I think itz natural for minorities to seek autonomy/self-rule and eventually freedom in the region they are concentrated in ( as has been the trend lately ), but it poses a very grave challenge to those in majority who are responsible for governance. The only way to sustain a Union is to make all groups feel and believe that they actually are the masters of their own destiny and that the abstract notion of a nation is actually a way to pool and optimize resources and a safeguard against foreign hostility. But the pre-requisite is that there should at least be some semblance of connection between diverse groups.
Excuse me?!
Why this ?independencies of the Tibetans? are so important to westerners and and makes everyone deeply concern and angry at the ?Chinese occupational forces in Tibet??
-For more than 60 years Israeli's occupational forces destroying the Palestinian lives and properties. Why nobody cares..??
-For 78 days occupational NATO forces, systematically carpet bombing Serbia killing thousands, but nobody cared..
-For 5 years occupational US forces killing Iraqis ?more than a million? systematically destroying a land that once was called the cradle of the civilisations?. And nobody cares.
-For 7 years the same evil forces doing their job in Afghanistan? nobody cares..!
Now you all suddenly got feelings about the poor people of the Tibet?? Tibet is officially a part of the China since 7th century mind you.
WHY..??
So, this all bout the 2008 Olympic Games in China and has nothing to do about the Tibetans independencies ?right now, west looking for an excuse or the possibility to boycott it like the way they did back in 1968 (Mexico) and 1980 (Russia)?.
With current developments in Tibet, it is very necessary that each of you consider the activities of your own government (currently engaged in the unilateral, post-invasion occupation phase of another country: Iraq) and the REAL motivations and intentions behind superficially 'humanitarian' efforts with regard to the dire conditions of Tibetans.
If China grant the Tibetan independency wishes, then they will most likely face another problem ?Xinjiang?, and China can not lose it.
Why this ?independencies of the Tibetans? are so important to westerners and and makes everyone deeply concern and angry at the ?Chinese occupational forces in Tibet??
-For more than 60 years Israeli's occupational forces destroying the Palestinian lives and properties. Why nobody cares..??
-For 78 days occupational NATO forces, systematically carpet bombing Serbia killing thousands, but nobody cared..
-For 5 years occupational US forces killing Iraqis ?more than a million? systematically destroying a land that once was called the cradle of the civilisations?. And nobody cares.
-For 7 years the same evil forces doing their job in Afghanistan? nobody cares..!
Now you all suddenly got feelings about the poor people of the Tibet?? Tibet is officially a part of the China since 7th century mind you.
WHY..??
So, this all bout the 2008 Olympic Games in China and has nothing to do about the Tibetans independencies ?right now, west looking for an excuse or the possibility to boycott it like the way they did back in 1968 (Mexico) and 1980 (Russia)?.
With current developments in Tibet, it is very necessary that each of you consider the activities of your own government (currently engaged in the unilateral, post-invasion occupation phase of another country: Iraq) and the REAL motivations and intentions behind superficially 'humanitarian' efforts with regard to the dire conditions of Tibetans.
If China grant the Tibetan independency wishes, then they will most likely face another problem ?Xinjiang?, and China can not lose it.
Well, I think, perhaps, it might have something to do with Tibetans themselves championing this cause here in the West and elsewhere and not just for the West to fulfill a need to preach.
Follow this link please and you will know something?. Perhaps differently..!
CIA's Secret War in Tibet
Follow this link please and you will know something?. Perhaps differently..!
CIA's Secret War in Tibet
Well then..
- Taliban and Mujahedin, was funded and powered/trained by the same CIA to stand against the Russian too, and now they are terrorist and are only useful for target practicing of the American butchers.
- Saddam Hussein was powered/funded by the same CIA back in 80's to attack Iran to kill millions, after (mission accomplished) they killed the Saddam and destroyed his country as a reward.
I can go on and on if you wish?
This RIOT is not a PROTEST not even remotely sounds like a REVOLUTION, it caused by a bunch of bandits ?Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) CIA puppets? which are infiltrating Tibetan area and striking when ?needed?.
Time for the ?demonstrations of the Imperialism democracies? I guess, only the innocent people of Tibet are caught in between and suffering?!
It happened before and it will happen again, until the whole world especially Americans pull their heads out of their assess and see the real (home grown) enemy and terrorist inside their own country and administrations.
Chinese are smart people and culturally/deeply believing on the terms like (save the face), Americans/CIA can not deal with them as the way they did with the Arabs.
- Taliban and Mujahedin, was funded and powered/trained by the same CIA to stand against the Russian too, and now they are terrorist and are only useful for target practicing of the American butchers.
- Saddam Hussein was powered/funded by the same CIA back in 80's to attack Iran to kill millions, after (mission accomplished) they killed the Saddam and destroyed his country as a reward.
I can go on and on if you wish?
This RIOT is not a PROTEST not even remotely sounds like a REVOLUTION, it caused by a bunch of bandits ?Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) CIA puppets? which are infiltrating Tibetan area and striking when ?needed?.
Time for the ?demonstrations of the Imperialism democracies? I guess, only the innocent people of Tibet are caught in between and suffering?!
It happened before and it will happen again, until the whole world especially Americans pull their heads out of their assess and see the real (home grown) enemy and terrorist inside their own country and administrations.
Chinese are smart people and culturally/deeply believing on the terms like (save the face), Americans/CIA can not deal with them as the way they did with the Arabs.
Again..
Little bit of history of Tibet.
The idea of Tibetan independence was born in 1904 when Britain invaded and seized control of the region to protect its crown jewel, the colony of India. British troops murdered the Tibetan army who tried to defend themselves with primitive flintlock rifles versus the British carbine rifles and machine guns. No one in the west ever refers to this invasion, preferring to heap criticism on Chairman Mao for restoring Tibet to China in 1949.
The Dalai Lama fled China in 1959 after the failure of an armed rebellion aimed at separating Tibet from China (backed by CIA). Before 1959 the majority of Tibetan people were dominated and suppressed under a social order that consisted of a set of religious and government laws that imposed feudal serfdom.
Along with the general characteristics of this feudal serfdom was many remnants of slavery. This social system was more cruel and reactionary than serfdom in Europe in the middle Ages. The serf-owners' economic interests were protected by a political system that combined political and religious powers, ruling over the Tibetan people spiritually as well as politically. The Kashag or local government of Tibet (which in Tibetan translates to "the institute that issues orders") was composed of powerful and influential monks and aristocrats. It upheld a series of social, political and legal institutions that rigidly stratified society. The Thirteen Laws and The Sixteen Laws divided the Tibetan people into three strata and nine grades according to their family background and social status.
The monasteries, officialdom and the aristocrats owned all the arable land and pastures as well as overwhelming majority of livestock. These means of production were granted to them by the Dalai Lama. They had the right to govern and inherit the land.
Taxes and levies in Tibetan areas included land rent, stock rent, corvee (unpaid labour) and taxes. The main form of land rent was forced labour. In addition, there was a mixed form of land rent, which was paid in kind, forced labour and cash.
In Tibet under the serfdom, not only did the local regime at various levels, set up judicial institutions, but the big monasteries, manorial lords and tribal chieftains could also judge legal cases and had their own private prisons.
continue...>>>>>
Little bit of history of Tibet.
The idea of Tibetan independence was born in 1904 when Britain invaded and seized control of the region to protect its crown jewel, the colony of India. British troops murdered the Tibetan army who tried to defend themselves with primitive flintlock rifles versus the British carbine rifles and machine guns. No one in the west ever refers to this invasion, preferring to heap criticism on Chairman Mao for restoring Tibet to China in 1949.
The Dalai Lama fled China in 1959 after the failure of an armed rebellion aimed at separating Tibet from China (backed by CIA). Before 1959 the majority of Tibetan people were dominated and suppressed under a social order that consisted of a set of religious and government laws that imposed feudal serfdom.
Along with the general characteristics of this feudal serfdom was many remnants of slavery. This social system was more cruel and reactionary than serfdom in Europe in the middle Ages. The serf-owners' economic interests were protected by a political system that combined political and religious powers, ruling over the Tibetan people spiritually as well as politically. The Kashag or local government of Tibet (which in Tibetan translates to "the institute that issues orders") was composed of powerful and influential monks and aristocrats. It upheld a series of social, political and legal institutions that rigidly stratified society. The Thirteen Laws and The Sixteen Laws divided the Tibetan people into three strata and nine grades according to their family background and social status.
The monasteries, officialdom and the aristocrats owned all the arable land and pastures as well as overwhelming majority of livestock. These means of production were granted to them by the Dalai Lama. They had the right to govern and inherit the land.
Taxes and levies in Tibetan areas included land rent, stock rent, corvee (unpaid labour) and taxes. The main form of land rent was forced labour. In addition, there was a mixed form of land rent, which was paid in kind, forced labour and cash.
In Tibet under the serfdom, not only did the local regime at various levels, set up judicial institutions, but the big monasteries, manorial lords and tribal chieftains could also judge legal cases and had their own private prisons.
continue...>>>>>
If the serfs stood up against the manorial lords, violated the law or could not pay rent or taxes on time, the lords would punish them according to the Thirteen Laws or others. They used such inhuman tortures as gouging out the eyes, cutting off the feet or hands, pushing the condemned person down a cliff, drowning, beheading, etc..
The wealth of the society was highly concentrated in Tibet before 1959. More than 80 percent was under the control of the manorial lords. Less than 20 percent belonged to the serfs, who accounted for 95 percent of the population. The majority of serfs lived in extreme poverty.
During the era of the Dalai Lama there were no public schools or universities. In order to gain an education a child had to join one of the Monasteries, which is why many Tibetan mothers were forced by their own clans to give up their loved ones to the Monasteries. Tibetan women and girls were considered second class citizens and had no opportunity for education. Today, all Tibetan children, both boys and girls, have equal rights to a free and compulsory public school education. Tibetan women today provide a major and essential workforce in the government of Tibet Autonomous Region.
I am not Tibet nor the China pundit, but as far as I concern, what you people still don't realise is that MSNBC/ABC/NBC/CNN/FOX and couple of more crackpot smokers, are part of the corporate media. What ever they say is a mixture of % 50 lies + % 50 wishful political agenda (toward the main controller).
Why don't you all start to following the Independent media for a change and comparing their version of the news with the one that corporate media feeding the world with on daily basis.
The wealth of the society was highly concentrated in Tibet before 1959. More than 80 percent was under the control of the manorial lords. Less than 20 percent belonged to the serfs, who accounted for 95 percent of the population. The majority of serfs lived in extreme poverty.
During the era of the Dalai Lama there were no public schools or universities. In order to gain an education a child had to join one of the Monasteries, which is why many Tibetan mothers were forced by their own clans to give up their loved ones to the Monasteries. Tibetan women and girls were considered second class citizens and had no opportunity for education. Today, all Tibetan children, both boys and girls, have equal rights to a free and compulsory public school education. Tibetan women today provide a major and essential workforce in the government of Tibet Autonomous Region.
I am not Tibet nor the China pundit, but as far as I concern, what you people still don't realise is that MSNBC/ABC/NBC/CNN/FOX and couple of more crackpot smokers, are part of the corporate media. What ever they say is a mixture of % 50 lies + % 50 wishful political agenda (toward the main controller).
Why don't you all start to following the Independent media for a change and comparing their version of the news with the one that corporate media feeding the world with on daily basis.
The CIA wouldn't have been able to do anything if the Tibetans would have been happy with China. Since they aren't, China has a problem.
Idealistic point of view young lady and it is commendable, but you should also know that as government, you can't satisfy every mouth in every corner of the country, there will be always for and against.
Once again, the Tibetans are thinking they have the support of the United States. And ahh the Buddhists..!
During the Vietnam era, the United States eagerly supported the regime of Ngo Dinh Diem, a man who brutally oppressed the Buddhists; yet today the US government has risen in defence of the Dalai Lama and Tibet. Has the US sordid history finally led to compassion for the people of Tibet? One must wonder which people they want to protect for there are 41 races in Tibet, including Tibetan, Menpa, Luopa, Han Chinese, Hui, Sherpa, Deng, and so on; although by far, the majority are Tibetans. Perhaps the US is reaching out to the Dalai Lama - again?
It seems that the US government excels at propaganda for it continues to win over the very people it has betrayed and caused to be killed; buying their trust, it offers a friendship that is only self-serving. Oblivious to the past havoc wreaked by the CIA in Tibet, the innocent gather around the storm, stare into the eye, ready to be sucked into it.
Not too long ago, the Truman administration attempted to use the young Dalai Lama against China's new Communist regime. The CIA offered to provide him financial support as part of the deal. Its subsidies to the Dalai Lama lasted, at an unspecified level, until 1974. However, the CIA officials seem to have misled the Tibetans into thinking they had American support for the establishment of an independent Tibet. They did not.
Idealistic point of view young lady and it is commendable, but you should also know that as government, you can't satisfy every mouth in every corner of the country, there will be always for and against.
Once again, the Tibetans are thinking they have the support of the United States. And ahh the Buddhists..!
During the Vietnam era, the United States eagerly supported the regime of Ngo Dinh Diem, a man who brutally oppressed the Buddhists; yet today the US government has risen in defence of the Dalai Lama and Tibet. Has the US sordid history finally led to compassion for the people of Tibet? One must wonder which people they want to protect for there are 41 races in Tibet, including Tibetan, Menpa, Luopa, Han Chinese, Hui, Sherpa, Deng, and so on; although by far, the majority are Tibetans. Perhaps the US is reaching out to the Dalai Lama - again?
It seems that the US government excels at propaganda for it continues to win over the very people it has betrayed and caused to be killed; buying their trust, it offers a friendship that is only self-serving. Oblivious to the past havoc wreaked by the CIA in Tibet, the innocent gather around the storm, stare into the eye, ready to be sucked into it.
Not too long ago, the Truman administration attempted to use the young Dalai Lama against China's new Communist regime. The CIA offered to provide him financial support as part of the deal. Its subsidies to the Dalai Lama lasted, at an unspecified level, until 1974. However, the CIA officials seem to have misled the Tibetans into thinking they had American support for the establishment of an independent Tibet. They did not.
Engaging China in a Tibet uprising, threatening the public image it has worked so hard to build around the world (China has far surpassed the United States in Public Diplomacy. During the G.W. Bush presidency, while the world watched in dismay an do-it-alone America that made a blunder at every turn, China, in spite of human rights issues that remain to be resolved, has won ?hearts and minds' in South America, Middle East, and Africa. It is attempting to win over its regional neighbours by developing economic, political, and diplomatic relations, and exercising skilful diplomacy) would distract or dissuade it from building alliances around the world and its very neighbourhood.
Like I said zillion times before..
American democracy/way of life/freedom/liberty = do as we tell you to do, or else!.
What's different between the statement above and the fascists..??
Like I said zillion times before..
American democracy/way of life/freedom/liberty = do as we tell you to do, or else!.
What's different between the statement above and the fascists..??
Let the Tibetans tell us what's going on.
Yeah I like that idea, lets hear the genuine Tibetan voices, away from the western media and propaganda machine outposts around the globe.
Don't get me wrong on this; I do not agree with the Chinese government actions and decisions about the Tibet, but it is what every country does to keep their borders and nation INTACT and WHOLE.
Same story happened to India's disputed area like the ?Keshmir?, like I said above there are 41 races/sects/tribes or what ever you may call it living in the Tibet and the only force able to keeping them together is the Chinese government.
Separation is simply not an option and I understand the Chinese government will do what ever necessary to keep the country together against the menace of the Americans.
Back in 60's the Soviet approached the Cuba and put some couple of missiles there, Americans got panicked and the whole world was truly seconds away from the nuclear holocaust.
Now the Chinese feel the same, what gives them guarantee that the Americans aint approaching the new regime in Lhasa and won't put some missiles aimed at Peking..??
If you have ever lived near that part of the world and LIVED not just visit but LIVED in an area that is marginalized because of geography and unfair policies, you will understand their isolation.
Well.. what can I say, would it be possible to have this conversations (true to the point) if your statements above aimed at me..?
Yeah I like that idea, lets hear the genuine Tibetan voices, away from the western media and propaganda machine outposts around the globe.
Don't get me wrong on this; I do not agree with the Chinese government actions and decisions about the Tibet, but it is what every country does to keep their borders and nation INTACT and WHOLE.
Same story happened to India's disputed area like the ?Keshmir?, like I said above there are 41 races/sects/tribes or what ever you may call it living in the Tibet and the only force able to keeping them together is the Chinese government.
Separation is simply not an option and I understand the Chinese government will do what ever necessary to keep the country together against the menace of the Americans.
Back in 60's the Soviet approached the Cuba and put some couple of missiles there, Americans got panicked and the whole world was truly seconds away from the nuclear holocaust.
Now the Chinese feel the same, what gives them guarantee that the Americans aint approaching the new regime in Lhasa and won't put some missiles aimed at Peking..??
If you have ever lived near that part of the world and LIVED not just visit but LIVED in an area that is marginalized because of geography and unfair policies, you will understand their isolation.
Well.. what can I say, would it be possible to have this conversations (true to the point) if your statements above aimed at me..?
Kind of interesting stuff around this site?
Check it out?
News checker
It shows how dangerous the ?yellow journalism? is, those who actually brings us (THE Constructed/refined NEWS) and we are supposes to believe in their garbage.
Ohhh brother?
Check it out?
News checker
It shows how dangerous the ?yellow journalism? is, those who actually brings us (THE Constructed/refined NEWS) and we are supposes to believe in their garbage.
Ohhh brother?
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