More American crimes revealed..
This topic was created in the Politics forum by Qbone on Thursday, September 9, 2010 and has 55 replies.
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US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies'
Soldiers face charges over secret 'kill team' which allegedly murdered at random and collected fingers as trophies of war
Chris McGreal in Washington
The Guardian, Thursday 9 September 2010
Article history
Twelve American soldiers face charges over a secret "kill team" that allegedly blew up and shot Afghan civilians at random and collected their fingers as trophies.
Five of the soldiers are charged with murdering three Afghan men who were allegedly killed for sport in separate attacks this year. Seven others are accused of covering up the killings and assaulting a recruit who exposed the murders when he reported other abuses, including members of the unit smoking hashish stolen from civilians.
In one of the most serious accusations of war crimes to emerge from the Afghan conflict, the killings are alleged to have been carried out by members of a Stryker infantry brigade based in Kandahar province in southern Afghanistan.
According to investigators and legal documents, discussion of killing Afghan civilians began after the arrival of Staff Sergeant Calvin Gibbs at forward operating base Ramrod last November. Other soldiers told the army's criminal investigation command that Gibbs boasted of the things he got away with while serving in Iraq and said how easy it would be to "toss a grenade at someone and kill them".
One soldier said he believed Gibbs was "feeling out the platoon".
Investigators said Gibbs, 25, hatched a plan with another soldier, Jeremy Morlock, 22, and other members of the unit to form a "kill team". While on patrol over the following months they allegedly killed at least three Afghan civilians. According to the charge sheet, the first target was Gul Mudin, who was killed "by means of throwing a fragmentary grenade at him and shooting him with a rifle", when the patrol entered the village of La Mohammed Kalay in January.
Morlock and another soldier, Andrew Holmes, were on guard at the edge of a poppy field when Mudin emerged and stopped on the other side of a wall from the soldiers. Gibbs allegedly handed Morlock a grenade who armed it and dropped it over the wall next to the Afghan and dived for cover. Holmes, 19, then allegedly fired over the wall.
Later in the day, Morlock is alleged to have told Holmes that the killing was for fun and threatened him if he told anyone.
The second victim, Marach Agha, was shot and killed the following month. Gibbs is alleged to have shot him and placed a Kalashnikov next to the body to justify the killing. In May Mullah Adadhdad was killed after being shot and attacked with a grenade.
The Army Times reported that a least one of the soldiers collected the fingers of the victims as souvenirs and that some of them posed for photographs with the bodies.
Five soldiers ??? Gibbs, Morlock, Holmes, Michael Wagnon and Adam Winfield ??? are accused of murder and aggravated assault among other charges. All of the soldiers have denied the charges. They face the death penalty or life in prison if convicted.
The killings came to light in May after the army began investigating a brutal assault on a soldier who told superiors that members of his unit were smoking hashish. The Army Times reported that members of the unit regularly smoked the drug on duty and sometimes stole it from civilians.
The soldier, who was straight out of basic training and has not been named, said he witnessed the smoking of hashish and drinking of smuggled alcohol but initially did not report it out of loyalty to his comrades. But when he returned from an assignment at an army headquarters and discovered soldiers using the shipping container in which he was billeted to smoke hashish he reported it.
Later in the day, Morlock is alleged to have told Holmes that the killing was for fun and threatened him if he told anyone.
The second victim, Marach Agha, was shot and killed the following month. Gibbs is alleged to have shot him and placed a Kalashnikov next to the body to justify the killing. In May Mullah Adadhdad was killed after being shot and attacked with a grenade.
The Army Times reported that a least one of the soldiers collected the fingers of the victims as souvenirs and that some of them posed for photographs with the bodies.
Five soldiers ??? Gibbs, Morlock, Holmes, Michael Wagnon and Adam Winfield ??? are accused of murder and aggravated assault among other charges. All of the soldiers have denied the charges. They face the death penalty or life in prison if convicted.
The killings came to light in May after the army began investigating a brutal assault on a soldier who told superiors that members of his unit were smoking hashish. The Army Times reported that members of the unit regularly smoked the drug on duty and sometimes stole it from civilians.
The soldier, who was straight out of basic training and has not been named, said he witnessed the smoking of hashish and drinking of smuggled alcohol but initially did not report it out of loyalty to his comrades. But when he returned from an assignment at an army headquarters and discovered soldiers using the shipping container in which he was billeted to smoke hashish he reported it.
Two days later members of his platoon, including Gibbs and Morlock, accused him of "snitching", gave him a beating and told him to keep his mouth shut. The soldier reported the beating and threats to his officers and then told investigators what he knew of the "kill team".
Following the arrest of the original five accused in June, seven other soldiers were charged last month with attempting to cover up the killings and violent assault on the soldier who reported the smoking of hashish. The charges will be considered by a military grand jury later this month which will decide if there is enough evidence for a court martial. Army investigators say Morlock has admitted his involvement in the killings and given details about the role of others including Gibbs. But his lawyer, Michael Waddington, is seeking to have that confession suppressed because he says his client was interviewed while under the influence of prescription drugs taken for battlefield injuries and that he was also suffering from traumatic brain injury.
"Our position is that his statements were incoherent, and taken while he was under a cocktail of drugs that shouldn't have been mixed," Waddington told the Seattle Times
source??_
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/us-soldiers-afghan-civilians-fingers
and some may complain??_ why they hate us..!
Following the arrest of the original five accused in June, seven other soldiers were charged last month with attempting to cover up the killings and violent assault on the soldier who reported the smoking of hashish. The charges will be considered by a military grand jury later this month which will decide if there is enough evidence for a court martial. Army investigators say Morlock has admitted his involvement in the killings and given details about the role of others including Gibbs. But his lawyer, Michael Waddington, is seeking to have that confession suppressed because he says his client was interviewed while under the influence of prescription drugs taken for battlefield injuries and that he was also suffering from traumatic brain injury.
"Our position is that his statements were incoherent, and taken while he was under a cocktail of drugs that shouldn't have been mixed," Waddington told the Seattle Times
source??_
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/us-soldiers-afghan-civilians-fingers
and some may complain??_ why they hate us..!
Why not all crimes revealed, instead of just Americas dirty laundry?
Er because that wouldn't be fun now would it. He's trying to show you what numb nuts you are. Well not you in particular but def your next door neighbour.
As for Qbone's post, it doesn't really enrage me, Afghans can do worse to Afghans (although they certainly don't need extra 'help' from Americans). That's cause many are savages. Can't help it, surely years of living in a war torn country does that to you, especially when it's on and on and on with little respite. I know i'd be wild if i'd seen years of rape and pillage throughout my life. But hopefully i'd become like those Afghan heroines(!) in Flashman.
As for Qbone's post, it doesn't really enrage me, Afghans can do worse to Afghans (although they certainly don't need extra 'help' from Americans). That's cause many are savages. Can't help it, surely years of living in a war torn country does that to you, especially when it's on and on and on with little respite. I know i'd be wild if i'd seen years of rape and pillage throughout my life. But hopefully i'd become like those Afghan heroines(!) in Flashman.
Brown lady, choose your battles. Who do you think i am eh? Commander of all things brownie?? Make your own points and get some backbone. (ps watch yourself now, i didn't say all Afghans are savages, just many ok?)
I'm not upset a bit by Q, I find him intelligent and intense. I am puzzled from time to time at the focus on one area. The entire world is at fault in one fashion or another. And you're right, crimes put forth on supposed leaders to the people in the area at hand is appalling. *smh* I would be an animal if I'd seen what others have seen. Absolutely I would. You could not get through life without it changing you. Seeing your world turned upside down, everyone around you hurt, maimed, killed. No home to speak of anymore, everything reduced to rubble. The militia marching around, confusion, chaos. Yes, you'd have the choice to remain who you were stripped clean away.
It's such a different mindset in the military though. They are trained to kill, to do what civilians cannot and do not want to do. It changes people. My ex brother in law returned home on leave, and his eyes. It is difficult to put into words how ancient his eyes were. And he found it extremely hard to function with other people, even his own family. He felt as though he were 'real' and the rest a dream. He told me just a small bit of what he went through on a daily basis, then he locked down. 
You don??t even have a right to judge people with 32 years of constant occupations and unwanted wars. Afghani human beings born in 80??s are 30 years no what they have learnt so far is how to dodge the bullets, run from corner to corner and cave to cave trying to stay alive for another day.
The savagery comes from the American part, they did the same in Vietnam collecting ears and nose of their victims making necklace.
The savagery comes from the American part, they did the same in Vietnam collecting ears and nose of their victims making necklace.
Posted by venusianbull
I would be an animal if I'd seen what others have seen. Absolutely I would. You could not get through life without it changing you. Seeing your world turned upside down, everyone around you hurt, maimed, killed. No home to speak of anymore, everything reduced to rubble. The militia marching around, confusion, chaos. Yes, you'd have the choice to remain who you were stripped clean away.
Yup VenusianBull me too, was just using the Flashman image of how exotic i'd like to be
or maybe even this
Morningmist, don't worry. Just making sure there's not too much generalising going on, especially since someone in 5 months time might say CALTHROPE THINKS ALL AFHGANS KEEP BONES IN THEIR HAIR!
Venusianbull
Nobody invited Americans half the world around, as they say they are there to keep the peace and protect the civilians??_
Is that the meaning of protections..?
Nobody invited Americans half the world around, as they say they are there to keep the peace and protect the civilians??_
Is that the meaning of protections..?
Posted by Qbone
You don??t even have a right to judge people with 32 years of constant occupations and unwanted wars. Afghani human beings born in 80??s are 30 years no what they have learnt so far is how to dodge the bullets, run from corner to corner and cave to cave trying to stay alive for another day.
I'm not judging anyone. And watch your tone.
As there is not enough excuse for testing weapons and armoury they turn against their ally in region and killing Pakistanis as extra target practicing..
Don??t you all see what is going on..?? how would Canadians react (as ally) if the American do the same to them..?
Don??t you all see what is going on..?? how would Canadians react (as ally) if the American do the same to them..?
I'm not judging anyone. And watch your tone.
key word??_
Savage??_ Who do you call savage..??
key word??_
Savage??_ Who do you call savage..??
These so called savages didn??t exist 30 years ago??_!
Posted by Qbone
These so called savages didn??t exist 30 years ago??_!
Idiot. Yes they did. You clearly aren't up to date on your Afghan history. Shameful really. And yet you point the finger at Americans.
Enlighten me please then??_
Form Wiki
The political history of modern Afghanistan begins in the 18th century with the rise of the Pashtun tribes (known as Afghans in Persian language), when in 1709 the Hotaki dynasty established its rule in Kandahar and, more specifically, when Ahmad Shah Durrani created the Durrani Empire in 1747 which became the forerunner of modern Afghanistan.[10][11][12] Its capital was shifted in 1776 from Kandahar to Kabul and most of its territories ceded to neighboring empires by 1893. In the late 19th century, Afghanistan became a buffer state in "The Great Game" between the British and Russian empires.[13] On August 19, 1919, following the third Anglo-Afghan war, the nation regained control over its foreign affairs from the British.
Since the late 1970s Afghanistan has experienced a continuous state of civil war punctuated by US secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet afghan regime in 1979[14] and following 6 months later occupations in the forms of the 1979 Soviet invasion and the October 2001 US-led invasion that overthrew the Taliban government. In December 2001, the United Nations Security Council authorized the creation of an International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) to help maintain security and assist the Karzai administration. The country is being rebuilt slowly with support from the international community and dealing with Taliban insurgency.[15]
Read the bold texts if you don??t have time to follow through??_
My Afghan History??_??
lol
Form Wiki
The political history of modern Afghanistan begins in the 18th century with the rise of the Pashtun tribes (known as Afghans in Persian language), when in 1709 the Hotaki dynasty established its rule in Kandahar and, more specifically, when Ahmad Shah Durrani created the Durrani Empire in 1747 which became the forerunner of modern Afghanistan.[10][11][12] Its capital was shifted in 1776 from Kandahar to Kabul and most of its territories ceded to neighboring empires by 1893. In the late 19th century, Afghanistan became a buffer state in "The Great Game" between the British and Russian empires.[13] On August 19, 1919, following the third Anglo-Afghan war, the nation regained control over its foreign affairs from the British.
Since the late 1970s Afghanistan has experienced a continuous state of civil war punctuated by US secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet afghan regime in 1979[14] and following 6 months later occupations in the forms of the 1979 Soviet invasion and the October 2001 US-led invasion that overthrew the Taliban government. In December 2001, the United Nations Security Council authorized the creation of an International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) to help maintain security and assist the Karzai administration. The country is being rebuilt slowly with support from the international community and dealing with Taliban insurgency.[15]
Read the bold texts if you don??t have time to follow through??_
My Afghan History??_??
lol
Posted by Qbone
Venusianbull
Nobody invited Americans half the world around, as they say they are there to keep the peace and protect the civilians??_
Is that the meaning of protections..?
Q, my good man, you know my stance on this matter. I never have, nor will I ever agree that America should have its mitts in every pie. I think, and do forgive me because I so enjoy those rose tinted glasses I wear...I think that the military should be in place to protect us from outside threat. If there is none, no conceivable reason to be there, then soldiers should remain at home. You know as well as I that this business has NEVER been about *protection*, but about CONTROL.
I'm waiting for some Wiki Wiki wild west postings from you. Guns out. Which is all cool, becase it shows you're willing to expand that brain of yours. Enrich it with copy pasting!
Posted by calthropePosted by venusianbull
I would be an animal if I'd seen what others have seen. Absolutely I would. You could not get through life without it changing you. Seeing your world turned upside down, everyone around you hurt, maimed, killed. No home to speak of anymore, everything reduced to rubble. The militia marching around, confusion, chaos. Yes, you'd have the choice to remain who you were stripped clean away.
Yup VenusianBull me too, was just using the Flashman image of how exotic i'd like to be
or maybe even this
Morningmist, don't worry. Just making sure there's not too much generalising going on, especially since someone in 5 months time might say CALTHROPE THINKS ALL AFHGANS KEEP BONES IN THEIR HAIR!click to expand
I'd like to think I'd be a warrior too, but do I really know?
HAAAAAAAA!!!! I'm not quick enough.
Calthrope
Accept the defeat and be on your way??_ do you think that I waste my time to typing things that is already there??_?
Accept the defeat and be on your way??_ do you think that I waste my time to typing things that is already there??_?
Posted by Qbone
Enlighten me please then??_
Form Wiki
The political history of modern Afghanistan begins in the 18th century with the rise of the Pashtun tribes (known as Afghans in Persian language), when in 1709 the Hotaki dynasty established its rule in Kandahar and, more specifically, when Ahmad Shah Durrani created the Durrani Empire in 1747 which became the forerunner of modern Afghanistan.[10][11][12] Its capital was shifted in 1776 from Kandahar to Kabul and most of its territories ceded to neighboring empires by 1893. In the late 19th century, Afghanistan became a buffer state in "The Great Game" between the British and Russian empires.[13] On August 19, 1919, following the third Anglo-Afghan war, the nation regained control over its foreign affairs from the British.
Since the late 1970s Afghanistan has experienced a continuous state of civil war punctuated by US secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet afghan regime in 1979[14] and following 6 months later occupations in the forms of the 1979 Soviet invasion and the October 2001 US-led invasion that overthrew the Taliban government. In December 2001, the United Nations Security Council authorized the creation of an International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) to help maintain security and assist the Karzai administration. The country is being rebuilt slowly with support from the international community and dealing with Taliban insurgency.[15]
Read the bold texts if you don??t have time to follow through??_
My Afghan History??_??
lol
I said YOUR Afghan history because i'd like to think that when someone brings up a topic thats quite disturbing, then they at least know what the fuck they're talking about.
Ahh the stuff you highlighted means nowt. Since the mogolies invaded it's been tough times for them. It's in much of their nature. Just the way things are. FIERCE.
Posted by Qbone
Calthrope
Accept the defeat and be on your way??_
NEVEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!! I'm made of sturdy stock.
Venusianbull
I have nothing against you and your thought. My post was just a reminder in case that you may oversee the facts through my eyes.
I have nothing against you and your thought. My post was just a reminder in case that you may oversee the facts through my eyes.
Posted by calthropePosted by Qbone
Calthrope
Accept the defeat and be on your way??_
NEVEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!! I'm made of sturdy stock.click to expand
lol..... thats more o like it..
god ol CalthropePosted by Qbone
Venusianbull
I have nothing against you and your thought. My post was just a reminder in case that you may oversee the facts through my eyes.
I know this Q, there is nothing in my manner or thought that is going on the attack with you. Verbal sparring? Oh aye, I enjoy that. As do you. And though I run from the news like my heels are on fire, you bring it on home anyways. It's interesting to have another viewpoint in my opinion, other side of the mirror as it were. I do wish from time to time though that we were sat down at a table somewhere. Debate I find is much more animated in person.
Oh come, come people. I was being sincere. Do you not find it would be very entertaining to be hashing all this out with some excellent wine or coffee and seeing faces animated with thoughts and wild hand gestures flying about?
Someone needs flogged.
The sad part is you people believe all this crap
Oh hush Tate, stew is in the kitchen.
what's the big deal?
people have been doing it for centuries. in ancient rome they mounted people to crosses to demonstrate their prowess or in england where putting heads on pikes was awesome!
the nature of war hasn't changed simply because we believe ourselves to be more civilized. so again...
what's the big deal?
people have been doing it for centuries. in ancient rome they mounted people to crosses to demonstrate their prowess or in england where putting heads on pikes was awesome!
the nature of war hasn't changed simply because we believe ourselves to be more civilized. so again...
what's the big deal?
you people are ate up.
Well thank you for that scintillating commentary Mr. Tate, and what brought you to this rousing conclusion?
JT..
who's the chick on the picture....?? you..?
who's the chick on the picture....?? you..?
*gasp* He's a woman? 
well looks like... unless the image belong to transsexual version of JT...
who knows.. damn internet..!
who knows.. damn internet..!
Pretty please tell me he's not in some basement somewhere. Covered in back hair, nude, 59 years of age and playing World of Warcraft. *snicker* "transsexual version of JT".
hahaha
you'll never know
you'll never know
Right you are Q. He shrouds himself in mystery in manner of spy. You can keep trying to peek behind the potted plant, to no avail.
Images and avatars not exactly representing the person behind it but their wishes...! most of time of course.
He could be James bond, since he talk a lot about secret services around the world and how they watching me..
hehe
hehe
Hehehehee. 'Shaken, not schtirred.' And that *quietly pointing to my avi* is me. I took the picture last week. I hope I didn't burst any bubbles there.
Mmmm, all these lorry trips Q...d'ya suppose?
Mmmm, all these lorry trips Q...d'ya suppose?
friend of mine no one who you should be concerend with.
Venusianbull
Quite lovely image of yours with a pair of calm eyes and beautiful smile.
Mmmm, all these lorry trips Q...d'ya suppose?
Sorry secret service business, I am not supposed to talk about it or JT will delete me.
Damn MI6.
Quite lovely image of yours with a pair of calm eyes and beautiful smile.
Mmmm, all these lorry trips Q...d'ya suppose?
Sorry secret service business, I am not supposed to talk about it or JT will delete me.
Damn MI6.
Thank you Q.
Mums the word. Mustn't speak on such matters if you'll be hunted down like a hound or deleted.
Mums the word. Mustn't speak on such matters if you'll be hunted down like a hound or deleted.
Hay how did you know it was 16 not 15 I was trying to throw Tubby ass off I forgot her new name.
Caligula. *biting lip* Ummm, you know it was going to be me answering. Didn't you.
sometimes late at night
I look out my window and I see movement by the tree across the road
and I ask myself is it
Then I think couldn't be
then I wonder and I can't sleep
I look out my window and I see movement by the tree across the road
and I ask myself is it
Then I think couldn't be
then I wonder and I can't sleep
*smiles* Am not, take it back. Or I'm going to collect my jacks, marbles and skipping rope and go home.
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