P-Angel
@P-Angel
20 Years25,000+ PostsPisces
Comments: 0 · Posts: 44084 · Topics: 685
Forgiveness isn't really beneficial
Posted by capgirl75
By forgiving someone, you do not have to "forget" what they have done. You are simply choosing to free yourself of the negative and hateful feelings you associate with that person. It doesn't mean you have to trust the person, or even keep them in your life. Forgiveness is for the forgiver, to keep hate from poisoning their heart.
For example, I have forgiven my biological father for abandoning me. I harbor no ill will toward him. I don't associate with him though, even though I have the opportunity to.
I understand that ... this thread is more geared towards those people who continue down the same path in letting the other person hurt them over and over by accepting an apology that was never meant.
btw ... what you answered wasn't what I said, or meant.
To free yourself of negative and/or hateful feelings is forgiving yourself. I'm not talking about forgiving yourself, I'm talking about forgiving the other person.
There's a difference
Posted by M
This. Forgiveness = not holding it against them. Separate from, but often leading to, a mutual understanding.
That rarely happens, though. That ^^^^ is unrealistic. People like to live in fairyland and believe it's true, but, it's not.
"Forgiveness = not holding it against them."
I know what forgiveness means, in fact, I went on to describe it. You stopped at one word, without grasping my concept.
Posted by capgirl75
It is my understanding that by letting it go, you actually do forgive the other person. Because you are not holding a grudge, even if you can't understand their motivations for doing what they did.
Yes, yes .... you forgive the other person because you aren't holding a grudge. Now, see if you can take it further.
You got the word "forgiveness" in your head, and falsely believe that I am not understanding what the word means.
This topic isn't asking people what forgiveness means.
It's asking ...... if you continue to forgive, just be hurt again, then how is forgiving beneficial to you, if you are the one hurting?
If you forgive the person for who they are, they can no longer hurt you.
Posted by capgirl75
By forgiving someone, you do not have to "forget" what they have done. You are simply choosing to free yourself of the negative and hateful feelings you associate with that person. It doesn't mean you have to trust the person, or even keep them in your life. Forgiveness is for the forgiver, to keep hate from poisoning their heart.
For example, I have forgiven my biological father for abandoning me. I harbor no ill will toward him. I don't associate with him though, even though I have the opportunity to.
Huge plus one. That is simply...the point of forgiveness.
Posted by Layna
Sometimes you forgive because you don't wanna lose them yet. 1 more chance, and another, another... because there's that stupid hope.
Out of all the people who responded ... ONE PERSON ^^^^^ got the point.
ONE
A Virgo .. yay !!!
Yes, the stupid hope ... been there, done that
I posted this in another post, seems it is relevant to this post too.....
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."
I totally follow this advice. I can accept an apology from a friend one or two times as everybody deserve few chances but if a "friend" hurts me over and over again, then a pattern is starting to develop and its best to END with this type of person by not accepting apology because they don't care about you.
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."
I totally follow this advice. I can accept an apology from a friend one or two times as everybody deserve few chances but if a "friend" hurts me over and over again, then a pattern is starting to develop and its best to END with this type of person by not accepting apology because they don't care about you.
Posted by MsPisces.
If you forgive the person for who they are, they can no longer hurt you.
actually, she^ is the only person who got it right.
When you forgive: Forgive is defined as: giving up resentment against or the desire to punish; stop being angry with; pardon.
You relieve yourself of the burden of the past. You shed the hurt, pain, anger, and loneliness. You can begin to heal.
You give the person you forgive (even yourself) the freedom to live in peace and to be able to change for the better.
Points about forgiveness:
Forgiveness is not forgetting.
The pain may not be completely gone. One can forgive and still grieve a loss or feel pain from a wound.
Damage and wounds can take time to repair.
Forgiveness does not deny responsibility for behavior. You have simply committed to not hold the other person in debt.
source: http://www.positive-way.com/forgiven.htm<BR>
ie, a family member or friend is a crackhead and has harmed you over the years due to their crackish behavior. you can choose to forgive them for being a shit and thereby releasing yourself and them from any expectations or duties. live and let live.
what the OP speaks of is not forgiveness. it's foolishness.
For me it really depends on whether the other person apologises for what they have done (and seems to mean it): if they do then it is obviously a lot easier to forgive but if not (and they have really hurt you) then the hurt may take a long time to heal and while the hurt is still going on it is hard to forgive. When forgiveness comes, though, I think it should be true forgiveness and should come easily when it does come for "the quality of mercy is not strained". In an ideal world more people would realise when they have hurt somebody and apologise and mean it but it is not an ideal world and in my experience this seldom happens.
Posted by virgodog58
the other person apologises for what they have done (and seems to mean it): if they do then it is obviously a lot easier to forgive ....
if not (and they have really hurt you) then the hurt may take a long time to heal and while the hurt is still going on it is hard to forgive.
Ah, now we're talking about the point of this topic. ^^^ Virgo again
What you talk about is for yourself, and not for the other person. If you are still in pain then forgiving the person may take a long time, if ever .... that isn't forgiving the other person for something they did, if this forgiveness is contingent on your feelings.
What you talk about is what is beneficial to YOU ... not them in forgiving them.
When a person forgives another, it's not so this other can go about life guilt free .... it's for YOU, to benefit YOU, so that you feel like you don't have to hold onto what that other person did.
As if you ever had to hold onto it.
So, how is that beneficial to you? It's not.
You think, all of you people think, that if you forgive someone of something, then it's a gift to them, so they can have a better life .... in reality, you didn't do anything for the other person.
Just like the person who talked about forgiving her biological father for leaving her as a child ....
He doesn't need her to forgive him, if he needed her, he wouldn't have left.
When she says she forgives him, in reality, this action is for HER ... so she can feel be rid of guilt.
It doesn't benefit in anyway ... if she has no clue that she didn't give him anything.
He doesn't need her to forgive him, if he needed her, he wouldn't have left.
When she says she forgives him, in reality, this action is for HER ... so she can feel be rid of guilt.
It doesn't benefit in anyway ... if she has no clue that she didn't give him anything.
Posted by MsPisces.
If you forgive the person for who they are, they can no longer hurt you.
You make my point for me.
People think that to forgive someone then it is giving them something.
In reality, it's for yourself, for your own purposes ... so you can't be hurt any longer.
But, if a person has no clue that they didn't give another something, then there is no benefit.
When the other hurts you again ... the first thing that pops in your head is that you forgave them, and now look what they have done ... because you will falsely believe that you forgiving them was giving it to them.
You give it to yourself ... just as you have stated in the quote above.
it's amazing how some pisces and virgos think alike. the inability to truly forgive and/or apologize is exactly why virgos are psychotic and some fishies welcome subjugation.
why does one presume that in forgiving someone, they owe you something by virtue of said forgiveness? in fact, the notion that forgiveness comes with a price tag is the antithesis of what forgiveness truly is.
as defined:
1a: to give up resentment of or claim to requital for
1b: to grant relief from payment of
2: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon
thus the constant refrain of the OP is nonsensical. the question has been presented such that in forgiving someone, IF they do it again, then you/i/she/he/"they" will have some preset negative reaction and therefore forgiveness is useless.
as the definition states, the fact that you think you're due something just because you forgave is on you. fuck you and your expectations. if you forgive so that you can get, you're not forgiving...you're just a foolish asshole. you're not jesus and you don't absolve. you forgave them, move the fuck on. but wait...oooooh, that's right...
this topic was posted by a pisces...a pisces who is agreeing with the virgo respondents. HA! gotta love astrology.
one thing that is mutual to both signs is "piling on." the notion of true forgiveness escapes both signs because where a pisces has difficultly remembering where they put their keys, they have no trouble forgetting the first time you screwed them over. same with virgo.
unlike normal people who can move on and not sweat the small shit, pisces and virgos pretend to do just that. the operative word is "pretend."
where they seemingly get over it, they're actually suffering in silence like good little martyrs. they "forgive you" for your misdeeds because one sign hopes to save you and the other hopes to perfect you. each is waiting on the day when you realize their grand sacrifice and the depths of their benevolence. every slight that comes after the forgiveness is just another opportunity for them to prove how much of a victim they are.
so the OP is right. forgiveness isn't really beneficial...to a pisces/virgo because neither sign knows what the fuck forgiveness truly is.
why does one presume that in forgiving someone, they owe you something by virtue of said forgiveness? in fact, the notion that forgiveness comes with a price tag is the antithesis of what forgiveness truly is.
as defined:
1a: to give up resentment of or claim to requital for
1b: to grant relief from payment of
2: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon
thus the constant refrain of the OP is nonsensical. the question has been presented such that in forgiving someone, IF they do it again, then you/i/she/he/"they" will have some preset negative reaction and therefore forgiveness is useless.
as the definition states, the fact that you think you're due something just because you forgave is on you. fuck you and your expectations. if you forgive so that you can get, you're not forgiving...you're just a foolish asshole. you're not jesus and you don't absolve. you forgave them, move the fuck on. but wait...oooooh, that's right...
this topic was posted by a pisces...a pisces who is agreeing with the virgo respondents. HA! gotta love astrology.
one thing that is mutual to both signs is "piling on." the notion of true forgiveness escapes both signs because where a pisces has difficultly remembering where they put their keys, they have no trouble forgetting the first time you screwed them over. same with virgo.
unlike normal people who can move on and not sweat the small shit, pisces and virgos pretend to do just that. the operative word is "pretend."
where they seemingly get over it, they're actually suffering in silence like good little martyrs. they "forgive you" for your misdeeds because one sign hopes to save you and the other hopes to perfect you. each is waiting on the day when you realize their grand sacrifice and the depths of their benevolence. every slight that comes after the forgiveness is just another opportunity for them to prove how much of a victim they are.
so the OP is right. forgiveness isn't really beneficial...to a pisces/virgo because neither sign knows what the fuck forgiveness truly is.
I think that counselling may make it easier to forgive. Some people say that only the one who hurt you can heal you but I don't believe that.
I thought all that was pretty obvious, Tubbs.
The meaning of forgiving someone changes in different scenarios..
Scenario One:
Your father abandoned you when you were a kid. Now you are a grown up man and he is sick admitted in hospital, asking you for forgiveness and requesting you to come to visit him.
Now no matter how regretful he is but he cannot undo what he did, you can't be child again, you can't get love and care of father when you needed that. Now either you can think that ok he did bad with me but I won't do bad with him (Forgive him) or you can treat him as he treated you (Not forgive him). In this scenario I think forgiveness is beneficial for you as you??ll definitely feel good about you after doing good with someone.
Scenario Two:
You are having argument with your boy friend and he slapped you on face. You got angry and broke up with him. He is asking forgiveness and saying what he did was in anger and was a mistake. You accepted his apology. After one week one more argument and he slapped you again. You broke up, he is asking for forgiveness again, you accepted apology. And after few weeks he slapped you again during an argument.
Now this is a scenario in which forgiveness is not beneficial for you because a pattern of behavior has been developed that he can do ANYTHING with and then can get you back by saying sorry. But sorry is not a magical word that can undo all the harm one did to you.
A sorry should have two things in it:
One: strong feeling of repentance for what you did
Two: strong resolution that I won't do it again
Without these two things, it's a shallow word that many use as a tool to hurt people again and again.
Scenario One:
Your father abandoned you when you were a kid. Now you are a grown up man and he is sick admitted in hospital, asking you for forgiveness and requesting you to come to visit him.
Now no matter how regretful he is but he cannot undo what he did, you can't be child again, you can't get love and care of father when you needed that. Now either you can think that ok he did bad with me but I won't do bad with him (Forgive him) or you can treat him as he treated you (Not forgive him). In this scenario I think forgiveness is beneficial for you as you??ll definitely feel good about you after doing good with someone.
Scenario Two:
You are having argument with your boy friend and he slapped you on face. You got angry and broke up with him. He is asking forgiveness and saying what he did was in anger and was a mistake. You accepted his apology. After one week one more argument and he slapped you again. You broke up, he is asking for forgiveness again, you accepted apology. And after few weeks he slapped you again during an argument.
Now this is a scenario in which forgiveness is not beneficial for you because a pattern of behavior has been developed that he can do ANYTHING with and then can get you back by saying sorry. But sorry is not a magical word that can undo all the harm one did to you.
A sorry should have two things in it:
One: strong feeling of repentance for what you did
Two: strong resolution that I won't do it again
Without these two things, it's a shallow word that many use as a tool to hurt people again and again.
Posted by IntriguedScorpPosted by ellessque
who said forgiveness should be beneficial?
it should be given without thinking you're going to get anything back.
just like unconditional love 😄
Yep. Forgive and release. Its simple. 🙂click to expand
there are numerous schools of thought that say you should have forgiveness in your heart. isn't that one of the foundations of christianity....father forgive them for they know not what they do....(this is a JEW quoting JC btw)!!
this is obviously forgiveness outside of a love relationship though imo. for me, forgiveness in an abusive relationship as the abusee is just like laying yourself out as a doormat and i know cos i did it for years, so i'm not judging.
however...i won't go into details but something really bad happened to me as a child which i had trouble dealing with for years. the perpetrator of this evil died when i was 15 and i still couldn't let it go. eventually, the only way i was able to start to repair the damage he did was by having forgiveness in my heart for him. all the time i didn't forgive, i remained a victim and he remained in control, dead or alive.
so in that situation, i think forgiveness is beneficial but in abusive relationships, the opposite is true. if you continue to forgive, you continue to be a victim. it's only when you have NO FORGIVENESS LEFT...that you break the abusive cycle.
Posted by caligula
... the fact that you think you're due something just because you forgave is on you. fuck you and your expectations. if you forgive so that you can get, you're not forgiving...you're just a foolish asshole.
correct ... and visa versa .. if the apology is only forthcoming because it's expecting a reward.
I will state it again, as was in the OP ....
"Perhaps, there are a few exceptions in where a person accidently harmed you in some way ... but, I'd be willing to wager that 99% of the time when you are in a position to have to forgive a person for injuring your feelings .. that this person isn't looking for self improvement in realizing what happened, rather they are looking for retribution, looking for being rewarded for saying they are sorry.
The tongue can say anything ... but, if it says sorry without being sorry .. then how is forgiving that person actually helping you, when you are the one who is getting hurt in the process?"
How stupid you are Tubby. You verify the point of the thread, but, think you are disputing it .. and you don't know the difference. Must be your sun in Taurus.
from Scorpio board:
Posted by DoThatSaggie
I've been with my Scorpio boyfriend for many years.
I have this constant circle of upset moments due to his friend girls and what I define as flirting or suggestive comments. I can't figure out what is it all about and why he just won't stop allowing them to do it knowing it pisses me off. If I knew years ago that he had so many gal friends I would have ran.
He has admitted cheating before on me and I forgiven and moving on the best I can. We had a deep relationship and I don't question his love for me. I do want him to stop putting himself in potential situations that can lead to other things with women. This type of thing usually starts simple and nice as friends but for a reason I can't understand he doesn't and i dont know if this because he won't or don't truly know how.
Now, back to the reason why I made this thread ...
In the example above, we find a woman who forgives her boyfriend's unfaithfulness to her, while actually believing that this forgiving of him equals he is suppose to grant her loyalty .... when in reality, the only thing accomplished was him knowing that he doesn't have to be held accountible. And evidence of this is in his continued inappropriate relations with other women, which causes continued emotional pain for his girlfriend.
So, the question remains .... how did this forgiveness benefit you?
In the example above, we find a woman who forgives her boyfriend's unfaithfulness to her, while actually believing that this forgiving of him equals he is suppose to grant her loyalty .... when in reality, the only thing accomplished was him knowing that he doesn't have to be held accountible. And evidence of this is in his continued inappropriate relations with other women, which causes continued emotional pain for his girlfriend.
So, the question remains .... how did this forgiveness benefit you?
I love how its done so much exsamples can be retrieved from space.
ugh, i responded to the ignorance you posted, but this site is so fucked up and i dont feel like typing again.
actually i can post this. it doesn't require that i retype...
The family of an African-American man who died after allegedly being beaten by a group of white teens and run over by a truck is asking state and federal officials not to seek the death penalty in the case.
Relatives of James Craig Anderson, who died shortly after receiving his injuries on June 26, sent a letter with their request to the prosecutor in the case, Hinds County District Attorney Robert Shuler Smith.
"We ask that you not seek the death penalty for anyone involved in James' murder," the letter states; the letter is signed by Barbara Anderson Young, James Craig Anderson's sister who is in charge of, and speaks for, his estate...
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-14/justice/mississippi.hate.crime_1_death-penalty-white-teens-black-man?_s=PM:CRIME<BR>
point being, your thread is entitled "Forgivenss isn't really benefical." outside of your generalizations about "99% " and YOUR belief that forgiveness requires that the forgivee never, ever, never do wrong again, forgiveness IS beneficial as it results in a release, a "pardon" to and for both parties.
if YOU try to stop defining it in Piscean/Virgo terms, you'd gain some insight into the word and progress yourself.
as a Pisces, you "forgive" so you can get. when YOU don't get what YOU want in return, YOU turn around and forgive again. you circle the bowl or wade in stagnant water until it dawns on you that your sacrifices are for naught. it's only until you exercise some level of forgiveness and "swim away."
so no, we are not in agreement and that's what makes your refusal to see/understand that fact pretty darn sad.
eh...my original post was better. DAMN YOU MR.DXP!!! 😛
The family of an African-American man who died after allegedly being beaten by a group of white teens and run over by a truck is asking state and federal officials not to seek the death penalty in the case.
Relatives of James Craig Anderson, who died shortly after receiving his injuries on June 26, sent a letter with their request to the prosecutor in the case, Hinds County District Attorney Robert Shuler Smith.
"We ask that you not seek the death penalty for anyone involved in James' murder," the letter states; the letter is signed by Barbara Anderson Young, James Craig Anderson's sister who is in charge of, and speaks for, his estate...
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-14/justice/mississippi.hate.crime_1_death-penalty-white-teens-black-man?_s=PM:CRIME<BR>
point being, your thread is entitled "Forgivenss isn't really benefical." outside of your generalizations about "99% " and YOUR belief that forgiveness requires that the forgivee never, ever, never do wrong again, forgiveness IS beneficial as it results in a release, a "pardon" to and for both parties.
if YOU try to stop defining it in Piscean/Virgo terms, you'd gain some insight into the word and progress yourself.
as a Pisces, you "forgive" so you can get. when YOU don't get what YOU want in return, YOU turn around and forgive again. you circle the bowl or wade in stagnant water until it dawns on you that your sacrifices are for naught. it's only until you exercise some level of forgiveness and "swim away."
so no, we are not in agreement and that's what makes your refusal to see/understand that fact pretty darn sad.
eh...my original post was better. DAMN YOU MR.DXP!!! 😛
Forgiveness can be beneficial to the one who is slighted. Usually its just a way to end it for yourself and say whatever you are a god damn idiot and I am ridding myself from you.
Good bye, slam door move on. At least I say " I forgive you for being a moron it is not your fault".
Makes life so much better for me.
Do I forget? Hell no. Do I stress over it later? Definitely not.
I toss it away with all other trash and forget about it.
Forgive for yourself and not for the other person. It does nothing for the other person.
🙂
Good bye, slam door move on. At least I say " I forgive you for being a moron it is not your fault".
Makes life so much better for me.
Do I forget? Hell no. Do I stress over it later? Definitely not.
I toss it away with all other trash and forget about it.
Forgive for yourself and not for the other person. It does nothing for the other person.
🙂
Ok, if you accept a person for who they are and what they are capable of; essentially you never really "forgive" you accept and move on. Forgiveness is reserved for people you don't know. If I got hit By a drunk driver I would forgive them, if my good friend was driving drunk and hit me, I would accept it, because I would already know my friend has a tendency to drive drunk. This post makes no sense to me. Forgiving someone for being who they are? I don't get that. What I fully comprehend is acceptance.
Join the Conversation. Explore Yourself. Connect with Others.
Discover insights, swap stories, and find people. dxpnet is where experiences turn into understanding.
Create Your Free Account →Related Topics
what say you
It's already been established that the unconditional love theory is a crock of shit ..... Empathy is also impossibl
is serious business. i didnt think too much about it but lately ive been reading more and more about how people just can
Have you ever spent time with a person even though you knew the relationship couldn't go any futher than the little time
I really didn't know where to post this to be honest. So I am thinking the Universe is smacking me down with the mos
This is something that I've always wondered about...being a nice guy. I've been considered one since I can remember. I'v
I need help in understanding what this guy wants from me? 1st he says he loves and misses me and then due to us being a
This may have been asked previoiusly in the forum but I will post it. Can men and women just be friends? My opinio
Hey everybody! I'm a male Sag and I wanted to see what others think unconditional love is. Since my sign is known for it
after getting home from the shops to a messy house I was cleaning it when there was a knock at the door. My neighbour's
This is a pretty sensitive subject, so for once, I would like some insight to this. My taurus and I have been togeth
When your in a relationship, would you rather be needed by your partner or wanted? i ask because i feel like men dont
Ladies just want to ask a quick question. I'm not dating right now due to serious personal circumstances. Not sure
Men tell me I'm motherly. I do enjoy taking care of people but I've never thought of myself as motherly. I actually d
Can anyone explain this guy? Me and this guy have been friends for a couple of years, but thats all it's ever been, ho
I came home early last wednesday and Libra was in his man cave. Which he loves btw. So i came in, gave him a kiss, picke
What is wrong with people— My friend called me sobbing because her bf of 3 years dumped her because he said that he co
so there is this tauri guy who broke up with his gf. He told her that he would take her back if she had sex with another
Hello all! I'm seeking a bit of understanding and clarification on something that has been going on (and increasing)
I really want to hear from the men's perspective. Also, if you're a woman who said it first (and you're still together)
Like a mother who is bat-shit crazy and no matter how many times you forgive her, she still does her crazy shit .. and you end up getting hurt again. Or a boyfriend, who hurt your feelings. They say they are sorry, you forgive them, and then they do it again.
If they continue to do it, then you continue to get your feelings hurt ... how then is forgiving them beneficial to you?
Perhaps, there are a few exceptions in where a person accidently harmed you in some way ... but, I'd be willing to wager that 99% of the time when you are in a position to have to forgive a person for injuring your feelings .. that this person isn't looking for self improvement in realizing what happened, rather they are looking for retribution, looking for being rewarded for saying they are sorry.
The tongue can say anything ... but, if it says sorry without being sorry .. then how is forgiving that person actually helping you, when you are the one who is getting hurt in the process?