Needing V. Loving

Loving someone isn't necessarily needing them is it? But then emotions set in and then you ponder 'I love them....should I need them...or even go so far as to invest my heart in them?'

Loving someone is based off of something mildly selfish, but on the whole is geared towards loving the individual based off of who they are, and not so much in the intrest of making them conform to some image that is not based on that person's true self.....basically loving is loving the person for exactly as who they are, and any change on the desired love object's end comes from a desire to please the other....

What I want to know is Needing Love acceptable?....should someone need or seek/expect security in something that is so...'capricious' and 'fickle'? I'm sure falling in love can't be avoided, but to what point does love become dependency, and when is it unhealthy....I want to enter a relationship based off something healthy as opposed to having any selfish motives: I want the love to be pure, and enduring, so what y'all gotta say?

i strongly think that loving someone should not be based on any sort of needs!!!!if you are not able to love someone for who they are and vice versa then you need to be looking else where!!!you need to learn from each other, to complete each other and grow stronger as one with every day.......i have realised that it is very important that you want the same things in life and most importantly at the same time!!!this is a nice thread more insites will be very helfpful/interesting

VE, I think all this is simply a misconception of what people consider "Unconditional Love", as we've been programmed because of believing in a god. It has been instilled within us on all personal levels .. to include intimate relationships. We have a NEED to have unconditional love, just as we are taught with a christ ... we NEED to love a christ unconditionally, if we are to be worthy, and this mind-set has been programmed within us with ALL love forms.

However, there is no such thing as unconditional love, VE ... for every person has their own set of definitions for the word, "Love". What you feel you give unconditionally, may not be satisfactory for somebody else, for they have their own meaning of this within their lives, and visa-versa. If a woman gave to you, a love unconditionally, then to you, whatever she had to give HAS to be accepted, even if to you her actions don't show love ... because to her, this is her interpretation.

So, in reality .. there is no such thing, or if there is, it can't be applied for it's an individual condition within us that cannot have any expectations .. but, it has to have expectations because if you give this freely to another person, then you expect to have it back to you in the exact same way for it to be unconditional to you .. and another cannot give it back in the exact same way .. because they are them, and you are you.

When people look for love .. they seek this kind of love, they seek to find a partner who will accept every part of them without putting any conditions on the love you have to give ... you NEED this to come to you, we all NEED this to come to us, so that we can feel wholesome and true, no matter what we do.

How can this be? It can't.

A need to have this kind of love is present within us because we know we err, we are imperfect = we are human. We have in place, a saviour who justifies for us a reason why we should deserve this unconditional love, and if we feel it is deserving because it makes us worthy .. then we have transcended above humanity .... problem is, we are still human, and we haven't risen above the conditions of being human, we cannot reach, touch, see or feel this christ in which we would believe would save us from our humanity, and because we believe it's in place, we so desperately NEED to feel secure in the error of our human condition .. so we now look to another human being to validate within us something without any conditions to prove worth of love

hmmmm all valuable jems ladies, now that I have some feedback, I can give form to my confusion on the matter with questions....where to start...alright s-978, I believe that too and as strongly as I can, to the point that I'm taken away by that belief: love SHOULD not be based off of needs, or dependency of ANY kind, if it is to stay true to it's intitial form of love, rather than it's fallen forms of jealousy, dependency, and appathy....

ScorpHeart, I hear you loud and clear on all the above said statements; what I gather EXACTLY what you're saying you feel....an emotional wound is really our responsibility to fix, and investigate our own emotional turbulence, and until we assume that responsibility, we doom ourselves to perpetual suffering of the emotional variety that saps away at our hearts, and that despite what any does to try to salve it, it can't be done on their part....you hardly assume too much about my feelings they've got me in a death lock, and I feel.....honey, I can't EXPLAIN how I feel about the whole situation....defeated, pissed, proudly obstinate....I just can't seem to let go, and It's destroying me....when someone hurts you you want to strike back to gain control...I'm trying to get beyond that SH: that part of my psyche that I feel will turn everyone away....I want to be able to be in a relationship that I can be the man I know I am, and provide for the other....I want to love that person, and give them UNRELENTING love, I can't give my emotions in any other way....I give absolutely my soul, or you get nothing....I know what it is to feel a pain so deep, it tears at your soul everyday, and you're fighting your TRUE self.....trying to keep that beast in chains....I do feel dishonest in a way with people at large because I'm not showing my true self, but this is where I get back to a dependent stance of needing to be with someone else because I deny myself, and even though I KNOW the truth and feel it in me, I'm still too dammned immature to assume the responsibility to BE that person....So much of my passion came from that hunger that I had....that desire to unite with a person, and loose myself; to escape from my own insecurities, my own weaknesses....the theme of dependency, and selfishness arises yet AGAIN....
What I'm asking, is how do I CHANGE this aspect of myself?! Get beyond my self to the other person?....I'm fuckin' tired of being compulsively driven by my own needs....it's like dealing with a baby that won't stop crying

'need - comes from our own psyche. Our insecurites. Our issues.Need is always intertwined with love initialy. It is impractical to say that you want to enter a relationship based on true love.'

Is it REALLY impractical SM? lol I think keeping your ideals in mind and using them as your guiding light is actually most practical....there is NOTHING that can't be put into form, and it all starts with a thought, or impulse...when I say true love, I mean a love that isn't sullied by jealousy, or insecurities....I've seen too many peoples lives being torn apart and loves lost and I fuckin' sick of it!!! It's NOT GONNA HAPPEN TO ME!!! I'm talking about trusting and loving that person, and letting them into my being....sharing my soul with them....Now, maybe it's impractical for me to love in such an intense and indiscriminate fashion, but how can that be helped? That is who I am.....I give to someone until I feel 'free'.... like I'm taken away by it...I never spoke of how they made me feel because I was insecure about it, and paranoid that the peroson would use it against me....but that's how I feel....I can't alter it...no superficialities or pretenses about me.

P, I know there's no such thing as an 'unconditional perfect' love, so I'll try to explain what I mean....you agree two people can be in a relationship for a time and never loose (now questioning their love is different; at some point or another it's bound to come up, and it may just end up bringing you closer together....you're relationship has brought you to a 'burning ground' so to speak, and its' up to your mutual love to see you through)that love they have for each other....they grow, on each other, and yes even depend on each other and confide in each other when the individual isn't strong enough to carry themselves through.....it's because we aren't perfect and we do ere, that we could seek the other half of our being to complete us....no man is an island, and I'm slowly, but steadily coming around to that....I'm big enough to make accomidations for the other, and I understand they may not love with the same feeling I do....but I hope for our relationships sake, that they can get over their own doubts and we can meet in the middle somewhere....

When we come into contact with each other, we change each other P, and when emotions are involved, change is inevitable....What I have learned is that there is a freedom in emotion that blows the hell outta the superficial meaning of freedom of the..

....intellectual/abstract variety.....ANYONE has the god-given right to think in their own manner and becuase of the confines of individuality, that's a promised freedom limited only by the individual.....but to LOVE in your own way, and to 'FEEL' that freedom of uniting with yourself and your other.....wow....I don't want to force them into anything that discomforts them, but I want to instead encourage them to trust me, and I'll give/dedicate every bit of myself to being their sword and sheild when they feel they can't go on....I could NEVER, NEVER get tired of wanting to be there for my lover; no conversation too long, no pain too deep, there is no stoping me....I can't stand to see people let alone my own lover in pain, and I'll fight to get to the bottom of it with them....I think I can be a little melodramatic, and even artificial but I TRULY feel that way....I at this point do like my independence, but I'd like to be free enough to express my true nature with my partner....If I couldn't that would seriously hurt me.

I USED to be afraid of the intensity of my emotions, becuase I didn't want to HURT anyone....I figured by being 'fair/sensitive' I could give them what they needed and PROVE that I was all for them....but I ended up hurting myself by not satisfying my own needs....and thus, became fearful of becoming dependent on the other parties love....I don't think we can get around being dependent EMOTIONALLY....what is emotional independence? emotions have no barriers, and blend and mix naturally with other feelings...so I think love is dependent on and in the persons mutual trust in each other....trust is love and trust is dependence, and thus love is dependence....a need for us all....I suppose love IS a need....a DEEP need that can't really be done without....at least that's my opinion on the matter.

What I ask of you P, is how does a person know when they've achieved emotional independence?....Help me be able to see this from a different view so I can put this ghost of mine to rest....

"I don't think we can get around being dependent EMOTIONALLY....what is emotional independence? emotions have no barriers, and blend and mix naturally with other feelings...so I think love is dependent on and in the persons mutual trust in each other....trust is love and trust is dependence, and thus love is dependence....a need for us all....I suppose love IS a need....a DEEP need that can't really be done without....at least that's my opinion on the matter."


You're right .. we need this as human beings, VE ... in theory, it's nice to try and make ourselves believe that we shouldn't need in love, that we shouldn't have expectations in love .. but, how can you truly love another if you aren't dependent on this very trust that they will take care your heart FOR the love? You can't, you can't trust them to care for you and love you, without depending on them trusting you.

And this is a basic need, VE ... that we all require. There is no way to rise above it. There is no emotional independence.

We are dependent upon somebody from our very first breath we take in life .... we at their mercy to care for our tender hearts.

We have to trust them, to take care of us ... our whole lives. Even with just friends .... you have to trust your friend, if he is to be a friend to you, VE .. and this trust, you are dependent upon, you attach yourself to this person BECAUSE you know you can trust him, you know that no matter what you do, he will be your friend.

You are dependent upon your boss, for him to trust in your abilities to do your job correctly.

You are dependent upon your wife, to trust that she will look after your children and feed them and love them.

There's no escaping this .. because we are human, and we feel.

lol...why do we say 'I hate you' when we really mean 'I love you'?....P, can we trust someone with our hearts? our WHOLE HEART? Now, I'm not saying that there won't be times where we won't hurt each other, but ON THE WHOLE, can I trust my heart to someone?....I just wanna know that I can sleep next to someone and not have to obsess about them and my insecurities.....sometimes I stir up trouble to 'test' my relationships....

lol, There really is NOTHING I do that dosen't come from my emotions: I just know how to put 'barriers' between these two forces of my nature....I'm not as detatched as I appear....even emotional people struggle with their feelings....but that's is what in turn makes them STRONG....becuase they CAN deal with these feelings.....

I don't know what exactly I expect from another person, becuase I guess at 19 I don't really know what I NEED....I know what I WANT, but NEED....

To love someone deeply IS to 'need' them. Anything else is a dispassionate love. Once you do love someone wholeheartedly you'll find you will need them as much as they need you. There's nothing wrong with it I don't know why people refuse to acknowledge it. It is the natural course of life. It is not weakness. To love less cheats you and your beloved and you may lose her/him because of your unwillingness to give your all.

I wouldn't give less than my all and I expect the same. That includes loving and needing that one special person who supercedes everyone else. Sometimes you give your all and you get hurt. That doesn't mean that you were wrong. It just means it was with the wrong person. It takes courage to love completely. No one should ever be ashamed of it even if it didn't work out.

I thought about that too Mistery, and as far as I believe, you're not living life if you don't feel and think with all you can muster....life is about being connected to every experience, and feeling the effect of every thought, feeling, and experience....THAT is what I FEEL...but in my ideal belief, I want to love the person but maintain a degree of freedom....I'm stuck between two contrary feelings at once....Yes I realize a love that profound means you need them....and needing something is LIFE or DEATH, you can't go without it.....that's the scariest part; that need....you are at the mercy of that feeling...I Have to have it ya know? My life depends on that need...survival...life, death...love means a GREAT deal to me....more than I can really express in a paragraph....seeking security/sustenance in something so 'capricious' as love is difficult....

Though no matter what I can NEVER be ashamed of loving someone with all I have!!!...that's my highest, idealistic dream I have: to one day meet someone who will see me for EVERYTHING I am....beyond the sarcasm, and appearances....Allowing someone into the deepest parts of my being, and letting them undo my original ideas/beliefs of love and life.....changing me....bringing me to a new way of acknowledging myself...and life.

Something so serious you DON'T talk about so freely.....it means TOO MUCH to you....more than what anyone can understand including yourself....it's your livelihood...it's your resilience...it's what keeps you up, when you're on the verge of falling.....it's your MOST CHERISHED POSSESSION....mine are my ideas/emotions and beliefs....sharing something like that means EVERYTHING....nothing can even compare....that's where I come from.....so the little bits and parts of life don't really move me at all...they've got no real meaning to me...they're to be taken at face value and don't facinate me much....

Deeply connecting is what matters in a relationship.....I feel so passionately about it, that I put that force into concealing my feelings, and doggedly pursuing my true aims.

u start loving someone when u need him/her the most at that point of time but u still set her free to live her own life no matter how bad the urge to hold on and make her urs forever...