What makes woman so weak when it comes to men?

This topic was created in the Relationships forum by sweethearts on Thursday, April 24, 2014 and has 31 replies.
I have a beautiful friend going back to the man that beat her face in when she up and left him 3 weeks ago because she said she won't have him think he can do this! He has made no apologies for his actions or any talk of trying to get help, in fact he has told her to stay away.
This isn't about her story, I don't want feed back on that.
What I can't figure out is, what makes us so weak that we can't live without guys that treat us badly, cheat on us, beat us, guys that selfishly don't show any respect to you or your children? All around these boards are woman trying desperately to get back guys like this or understand why they are acting this way and trying to bend themselves like pretzels to accommodate.
Is it our upbringing? The fairy tales we are bought up with? Our religions? What makes us this way? Because I very rarely see a man here trying to twist himself to become somebody he isn't to cater for a woman.
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Posted by sweethearts
I have a beautiful friend going back to the man that beat her face in when she up and left him 3 weeks ago because she said she won't have him think he can do this! He has made no apologies for his actions or any talk of trying to get help, in fact he has told her to stay away.
This isn't about her story, I don't want feed back on that.
What I can't figure out is, what makes us so weak that we can't live without guys that treat us badly, cheat on us, beat us, guys that selfishly don't show any respect to you or your children? All around these boards are woman trying desperately to get back guys like this or understand why they are acting this way and trying to bend themselves like pretzels to accommodate.
Is it our upbringing? The fairy tales we are bought up with? Our religions? What makes us this way? Because I very rarely see a man here trying to twist himself to become somebody he isn't to cater for a woman.


Because deep down, the woman (the ones you reference) thinks that somehow she'll be the one to turn the bad boy around.
Seen it all too often and had it actually told to me.
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Posted by CancerOnTheCusp
Posted by sweethearts
I have a beautiful friend going back to the man that beat her face in when she up and left him 3 weeks ago because she said she won't have him think he can do this! He has made no apologies for his actions or any talk of trying to get help, in fact he has told her to stay away.
This isn't about her story, I don't want feed back on that.
What I can't figure out is, what makes us so weak that we can't live without guys that treat us badly, cheat on us, beat us, guys that selfishly don't show any respect to you or your children? All around these boards are woman trying desperately to get back guys like this or understand why they are acting this way and trying to bend themselves like pretzels to accommodate.
Is it our upbringing? The fairy tales we are bought up with? Our religions? What makes us this way? Because I very rarely see a man here trying to twist himself to become somebody he isn't to cater for a woman.


Because deep down, the woman (the ones you reference) thinks that somehow she'll be the one to turn the bad boy around.
Seen it all too often and had it actually told to me.
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+1. I'm sorry, but its not about love at all. Its about ego...which is rooted in insecurity. Trying to prove that you can love and be loved. By turning these guys around, you'll get the spoils of the turn around. Just the truth.
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"The ego is rooted in insecurity"
Where does that stem from? When are we taught this??
Yes CC, cultural differences do make things difficult. With my friend this is definitely the case, but it is with his culture that it is exceptable, cheating and beating... not with the way she was bought up and yet she is bending for him?? How is it that she can't stick to her beliefs when she knows and has always learned that it is wrong? Instead in one conversation she said to me he hasn't cheated on her...as if that is a buffer!
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estrogen :/
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I feel the way you do about 90% of the females out there .... it's like once they become love struck, all practical senses about relationship integrity ceases to exist.
I just grumble at the stupidity and ::: shakes head :::
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Posted by sweethearts
I have a beautiful friend going back to the man that beat her face in when she up and left him 3 weeks ago because she said she won't have him think he can do this! He has made no apologies for his actions or any talk of trying to get help, in fact he has told her to stay away.
This isn't about her story, I don't want feed back on that.
What I can't figure out is, what makes us so weak that we can't live without guys that treat us badly, cheat on us, beat us, guys that selfishly don't show any respect to you or your children? All around these boards are woman trying desperately to get back guys like this or understand why they are acting this way and trying to bend themselves like pretzels to accommodate.
Is it our upbringing? The fairy tales we are bought up with? Our religions? What makes us this way? Because I very rarely see a man here trying to twist himself to become somebody he isn't to cater for a woman.


sometimes, it's just plain FEAR. you think you're not good enough for any one really good, and you don't deserve to be treated right. It's psychological.
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strong mothering instincts + low self esteem (to be debated though) + submissiveness instilled by society = the answer to this topic.
each one of those variables taken by itself won't amount to much..but all 3 combined..holy fuck.
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I am recently divorced from a marriage just like that. I saw him as a broken little boy acting out bc he'd been mistreated when he was young. Except this little boy was the size of fully grown man and beat me brutally.
Believe it or not...he had a ton of good qualities which had the effect of making me forget the bad.
Deep down I knew it was wrong but I was addicted to him. I didn't want anyone to find out bc I was embarrassed.
I had a great childhood. I am smart, been told I am good looking, well educated, have a great job, make good money...there isnt any one reason I can pinpoint except that I didn't want to give up on him.
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I think there are many different reasons....it really just depends on the situation & the people involved.
Many I've known have stayed out of fear &/or obligation. Fear of the unknown, unable to financially support themselves, feeling obligated to not split up the family etc. The list goes on and on.
I can say for myself that I've only ever stayed out of love. Love is illogical & makes us do irrational things. I have plenty of self confidence, self respect, & I can support myself, so it has not ever been attributable to any of those things.
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Posted by SweetPiscesGrl
I am recently divorced from a marriage just like that. I saw him as a broken little boy acting out bc he'd been mistreated when he was young. Except this little boy was the size of fully grown man and beat me brutally.
Believe it or not...he had a ton of good qualities which had the effect of making me forget the bad.
Deep down I knew it was wrong but I was addicted to him. I didn't want anyone to find out bc I was embarrassed.
I had a great childhood. I am smart, been told I am good looking, well educated, have a great job, make good money...there isnt any one reason I can pinpoint except that I didn't want to give up on him.



+1
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Posted by AfternoonDelights22
estrogen :/


and oxytocin and prolactin.
nature really set women up for misery imo.
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Posted by Sugarfoot
Many women will use the excuse of not wanting to start over with someone new. Either the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know, or she's invested too much time into that man to let him go now. Never does the thought enter her mind that she may actually meet a better man! Why? Because she doesn't believe she can do any better than him. Why not just be alone then? Because she feels worthless without a man. Why? To her, having a man validates her presence in this world. Someone CHOSE her to be with. Alone she is faced with how miserable of a person she is.
The best thing a woman can do for herself is to learn to be happy and live a joyful life as a single woman! Then there is no need to put up with foolishness from anyone. She'll realize she will be happier without the nonsense!


I personally have found I had to go through all those excuses before I left my marriage, sometimes it's easier when you have a normal routine and being single I have to motivate myself to make my life interesting and not be sitting at home alone all the time. There's more work involved with being single but also more fulfilling because you only have yourself to consider so you aren't necessarily doing for others all the time.
The 2nd part I think is learned from experience and generally after children/family. A lot of woman selflessly put everyone before her during that period and then one day decide to be more selfish for her own sanity. I went through this and my favourite saying to my children is, it's all about me now, I've done my time. Sometimes they don't like it but they have learned to respect it!
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Posted by Sugarfoot
Many women will use the excuse of not wanting to start over with someone new. Either the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know, or she's invested too much time into that man to let him go now. Never does the thought enter her mind that she may actually meet a better man! Why? Because she doesn't believe she can do any better than him. Why not just be alone then? Because she feels worthless without a man. Why? To her, having a man validates her presence in this world. Someone CHOSE her to be with. Alone she is faced with how miserable of a person she is.
The best thing a woman can do for herself is to learn to be happy and live a joyful life as a single woman! Then there is no need to put up with foolishness from anyone. She'll realize she will be happier without the nonsense!


You're absolutely right. The sad part is that in reality nothing you've said will make a blind bit of difference to the way some women view themselves and the way that society views single women. When I was single all I got was 'why don't you have a boyfriend or any kids'. I didn't let those kind of questions pressure me into a relationship but I can see that some women would react differently and date anyone for the sake of saying I've got a man.
I used to work in a court house and saw women of ALL backgrounds seeking help from violent partners and some of them took the person back or made excuses for their behaviour - I never understood why. Some of these women were rich and successful but perhaps inwardly had low self esteem?
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Posted by scorpgal76
I think there are many different reasons....it really just depends on the situation & the people involved.
.


True - as I said in my earlier post, at my job in the court house I saw women from every conceivable background who were victims of abuse - white, black, Asian, rich, poor, successful in their career. The one thing they all had in common was that they all put with abuse for many years. All of them left it until they were either put in hospital or put out on the street before they sought help. Even the fact that their children were suffering just made no difference to them Sad
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My answer now when asked why I'm single??_
It's just too easy to please myself!
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Half culture pressure the other half abused as a child and got no help for it.
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A lot of us need healing. Humans are very fragile and rarely do people see that as a priority for themselves. It's unfortunate.
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Time heals, we learn from mistakes and experience and sometimes repeatedly so but eventually we learn and generally most of us need to the hard way.
As Aquagirl says, some don't find their way out until they can't live with it any longer and it becomes life threatening in their minds.
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Posted by sweethearts

Is it our upbringing? The fairy tales we are bought up with? Our religions? What makes us this way? Because I very rarely see a man here trying to twist himself to become somebody he isn't to cater for a woman.



Laziness (to look for a better job, better man), hence financial and emotional dependance.
Lack of imagination (which is merely unwillingness to use her mind), hence fear of unknown.
Unwillingness to work to improve her skills, hence low self esteem.

Shortly, she is too lazy to think and start a new, better life. Sometimes with a massive doze of stupidity. Isn't that obvious?

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Stinking lazy, knowing that bad men could smell a potential victim. They attract bed men like a decomposing bodies attracts flies. It's their decomposing mind, most of the time. If you don't use it, you lose it.
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Posted by Undine
Posted by sweethearts

Is it our upbringing? The fairy tales we are bought up with? Our religions? What makes us this way? Because I very rarely see a man here trying to twist himself to become somebody he isn't to cater for a woman.



Laziness (to look for a better job, better man), hence financial and emotional dependance.
Lack of imagination (which is merely unwillingness to use her mind), hence fear of unknown.
Unwillingness to work to improve her skills, hence low self esteem.

Shortly, she is too lazy to think and start a new, better life. Sometimes with a massive doze of stupidity. Isn't that obvious?


click to expand


Many of the women that I come across through my job are not lazy or intellectually stupid - some of them have very good jobs, are financially independent, some have masters and even doctorates. One lady who was going through domestic violence was a top government official but she just wouldn't kick her no good husband to the kerb
I've never dated a man who treated me badly and I don't think that has anything to do with luck - I can just smell bull**** and trouble a mile off and I avoid those types of men like the plague. Some women are just their own worst enemy
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Posted by CluelessCancer
You know it's all luck as my mother puts it, seriously this is how women in my culture think, and after recently hearing that my best friends husband might be cheating on her through the grapevine, i'm coming to terms with the fact, that there is a 80% chance i'm going to get cheated on, men are pigs, they disrespect women once they think they have them, especially after kids.



I've dated a fair few men in my time and none of them were pigs. All of them knew from the very beginning that I was not the type of woman to put up with any s**t so I never got any. You have to know your own worth and your partner has to know what you will and won't accept.
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To be fair, some women are toxic themselves. And since toxic attracts toxic, it only makes sense for 2 toxic people to come together.
If all women were innocent little angels, that would be different, but a lot aren't. Of course there's reasons for it, but nonetheless, the results are the same: Non-innocent chick ends up chasing/with a non-innocent man.
Some women grew up in homes where there was abuse, constant disrespect, drama, tension, infidelity, etc. From a cognitive standpoint, people seek what they're used to. They flock to their comfort zone, even if it's not so comfortable. They mimic whatever examples have been set for them during childhood. Isn't that why they say being a good parent & role model is important?!
Ideally, a person is supposed to let all that immaturity, low self-esteem & dramatic stuff go once they reach adulthood, but realistically many people don't. They carry their childhood demons over into adulthood. It doesn't help either that toxic people with low self-worth tend to recruit friends who have that in common too, thus further advancing the negative influences on them.
A lot of women feel that abuse, disrespect, infidelity is what they deserve. They believe this subconsciously. Plus, society sends mixed messages. On 1 hand, it puts a lot of pressure on women to be loyal ride or die's who accept a man flaws & all. On the other hand, society encourages women to run like hell the minute they encounter those very same flaws that they were "supposed" to be putting up with & overlooking in the name of not being judgemental or disloyal.
Men on the other hand are taught that what 1 woman won't do, another will. Instead of harping on the 1 woman who won't bow down to his narcissistic/irrational needs, he'll just go find a woman who will. And since there's always gonna be women with low self-esteem, there's always gonna be men who don't have the incentive to be better men.
It actually takes hard work to be a good person in today's world. When you're around a bunch of people who enable you to only do the minimum & to do things that aren't morally right, you end up in situations that aren't satisfactory or morally right. Again, this is why toxic people attract other toxic people.
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"Many of the women that I come across through my job are not lazy or intellectually stupid - some of them have very good jobs, are financially independent, some have masters and even doctorates. One lady who was going through domestic violence was a top government official but she just wouldn't kick her no good husband to the kerb".

Either they are secretly enjoying it or they are too lazy to do much about the situation. If someone would hit me, I would hit back harder. Then make sure that everyone knows, his best mates included, that it was me who gave him a black eye in self defence. Adding that the reason why he walks like a pregnant woman, is because my stiletto went up his ass! I doubt he will try for a second round.
We shouldn't underestimate the secret enjoyment though. I grew up thinking my father was a doormat, because he put up with daily verbal abuse from my mum. Now I think he thrived on it. His daily dose of challenge. Oh, and not only he's got a doctorate, but training others for this degree. It doesn't mean he isn't lazy. He does best what he likes doing and he's idle for the remaining parts of his life.
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The last part of Eve's curse in Genesis 3:16. Many skip over it, don't know it.
However, curses are meant to be broken.
Desires for a man causing him to rule over you.
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Yes I have heard that before ^^^ A lot of truth to it~
My dear friend has gone straight back in, I only hope that when it happens again it's not fatal and she doesn't suffer too much more.
I don't condemn or think bad of her, in some of my darkest days with my ex, I still would have taken him back even though very clearly now the same problems would have arisen and eventually we would have had to part. We were heading in different directions.
However, I think fear and insecurity was what was driving those thoughts at the time... Pride is what held me back!
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Posted by arietteheart2
I don't think it's always as simple as wanting to be the one that makes the bad boy change. If it's an abusive relationship, it doesn't always start out that way. I've seen it with some women in my family. The men shower them with gifts and attention and make them feel like queens. Then slowly isolate them from friends and family so he is their only support system...sometimes their only financial support if he didn't want her to have a job. Then come insults and tearing down your self esteem. The woman will start to question what she is doing wrong because he used to treat her right. She starts thinking it's herself that she needs to change. Now you have a broken woman with no self esteem and no support system. And often times the man is likable. He's charming. He'd never let it be known that he's abusive.
...etc etc etc.
It's not always just trying to reform the bad boy.


i can relate to this quite a bit. though, i think many other reasons can apply as well
i also think the idea that "men WILL cheat" is self-perpetuating because there's almost a built in excuse??_ like we should all have seen it coming or something.
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Posted by Undine
"Many of the women that I come across through my job are not lazy or intellectually stupid - some of them have very good jobs, are financially independent, some have masters and even doctorates. One lady who was going through domestic violence was a top government official but she just wouldn't kick her no good husband to the kerb".
Either they are secretly enjoying it or they are too lazy to do much about the situation. If someone would hit me, I would hit back harder. Then make sure that everyone knows, his best mates included, that it was me who gave him a black eye in self defence. Adding that the reason why he walks like a pregnant woman, is because my stiletto went up his ass! I doubt he will try for a second round.
We shouldn't underestimate the secret enjoyment though. I grew up thinking my father was a doormat, because he put up with daily verbal abuse from my mum. Now I think he thrived on it. His daily dose of challenge. Oh, and not only he's got a doctorate, but training others for this degree. It doesn't mean he isn't lazy. He does best what he likes doing and he's idle for the remaining parts of his life.

wow this is a reminder of what my mother and aunts were telling me about, that they have friends of this type who are super smart, super intelligent women who are top executives and in their field high upper tier management ect. and they get beat up daily by their husbands but they won't leave. They can't help themselves or something. One of them, they told me, over the years, the man FINALLY left her because he can't take it anymore (i guess he hated her but can't leave because she was CLINGY) and he's an asshole anyway for putting up with that bullshit for years and taking it. If he can't tolerate a dominant woman why the fuck are you with them? And then, he remarried and she still was PINING over him. It's weird as hell!! And she finally remarried too, but this man was much older than her, she was in her early 50s when her first husband finally left her, and her 2nd husband is in his late 70s so she ended up taking care of him. It's the oddest thing. I'm guessing "daddy issues" ?? that she NEVER resolved.
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i feel like posting daddy cool music.
but i feel that many of these women have DADDY ISSUES.
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Posted by size zero superhero
Posted by lisabethur8
wow this is a reminder of what my mother and aunts were telling me about, that they have friends of this type who are super smart, super intelligent women who are top executives and in their field high upper tier management ect. and they get beat up daily by their husbands but they won't leave. They can't help themselves or something.


Enviable book smarts and/or professional mastery doesn't necessarily correspond with advanced relationship skills and emotional intelligence. In all honesty, some of the brightest scholars and professionals I've encountered in my day happened to be VERY socially-awkward individuals; whose ability to relate to others or obtain healthy/functional intimate relationships--directly contrasted their immense strengths & accomplishments in other aspects of life.
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one of the smartest things you've said. And that's all that needs to be said. thanks for that. *thumbs up*
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