Christianity

This topic was created in the Religion forum by LilYanga11 on Friday, September 23, 2016 and has 18 replies.
I'm into astrology, tarot and thing people would consider witchcraft but I trust in God, I love Jesus Christ and I love the Bible and the fact that I'm into these things does not mean that I cannot be a Christian. As long as I use these things for good and not evil, I feel no conflict and my conscience is not disturbed.

Who should I fear? Why should I be worried if an evil person is against me? My God is more powerful than their god- my God is the real God and their god is the devil. The devil might have some power over the earth but my God created the earth.

I know I'mma attract hate cuz I'm expressing my faith so people will want to tear me down. But the Bible says we should boast of our God and praise Him and that's my intention. Please express your faith here if you wish to.

I love Jesus and I know I wouldn't even be alive were it not for God loving me and protecting me and keeping me safe when I didn't even deserve it. It seems like it's in style to mock Jesus, Christianity and the Bible and as long as that's the style , I want to be out of style . Does anyone else here believe in Jesus and in the Bible?
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Doesn't work like that. A wrong (according to the Bible) thing done for a good/right reason is still the wrong thing. That's the problem with religion in general: no flexibility.

And no I don't believe in God or Jesy.
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Posted by RemixGeneralFishy
Doesn't work like that. A wrong (according to the Bible) thing done for a good/right reason is still the wrong thing. That's the problem with religion in general: no flexibility.

And no I don't believe in God or Jesy.
Your take on what I believe is a strawman argument and I think your take on religion in general is a strawman.

You don't explicitly state what ideas your attributing to me and I wish you would clearly state what you're saying. I'll try to draw it out based on implication. You're attributing to me something that I don't believe in. I simply don't believe that knowledge is a sin. I don't believe that astrology is a sin any more than math is a sin. You can use it for evil and that would be a sin (or wrong, or whatever you wanna call it) but I don't think astrology is a sin in and of itself. I don't believe in a "ends justifies the means" argument in which astrology is evil used for good- I don't think astrology is a sin in the first place.

There's a lot of stuff in the Bible that today would be considered witchcraft and I think there's been valid demonstrations of astrology being used in the Bible- plus look at the stuff King Solomon was into- he had control over spirits and demons, if I recall correctly.

But anyways, I'm not a fundamentalist and I'm not a 100% literalist in my interpretation. You might disagree with this but there's a million ways of interpreting the Bible and Jesus' actions and teachings would contradict a 100% literal, fundamentalist interpretation.

I believe in extra-dimensional theory as expressed in Extra-Dimensional Universe by John Violette and I approach the Bible from that persepective, as well as from the perennial philosphy school of thought articulated by Aldous Huxley. I'm a sort of Universalist- I think Islam is a path to God, I think Christianity is a path to God, I think there's multiple paths to God. What I believe is honestly very complicated and has to do with shamanism and extra-dimensional theory and I think you'd have to read Extra-Dimensional Universe to really understand where I'm coming from.

As far as how I interpret the Bible, for example, I don't believe Noah really got two of every animal onto his arc- or at least it happened in a different way than described. I'm not saying the Bible is perfect and infallible.

But I don't think we as humans can simply totally reject the Bible- there's a lot of good and important stuff in the Bible and we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. We can think critically about what we read but we can also hold on to the good stuff.

I believe in a lot of what the Bible has to say and I think it has important things to teach us. Also, I love the Bible. Jacques Ellul is one of my favorite philosopher and I love Jacquea Ellul and I believe what he says but I don't necessarily believe every word he says.
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I could have been more clear on what I meant when I say I believe in the Bible, so that is to elaborate. I might not hold orthodox views but there's a long history of what I'm talking about and those sort of ideas are a long-standing part of religious history- look at Sufism in Islam for example, or Ralph Waldo Emerson or even Martin Luther King. MLK wasn't super up-front about his non-orthodox views but that's because he was promoting Christianity and not seeking to divide Christians. He was more focused on other battles. I'm not super focused on waving my school of interpretation on my chest because I think it's more important for their to be unity rather than for Christians to fight amongst themselves over the minutae of their theological standpoints- otherwise there would never be agreement and unity amongst Christians.
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Even Einstein and William James are connected to my school of thought, so this isn't something I pulled out of thin air. I think I have a lot of evidence supporting what I believe but it's extremely complicated and I couldn't go into detail about it all here without grossly oversimplifying things- if you really want to know, you need to read Extra-Dimensional Universe. That book explains it way better than I can in bite-sized forum posts and the author gathers all the evidence and presents things in a much more clear and comprehensive way than I can- all I can really do here is give hints.
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There is an old Jewish story regarding Abraham being into astrology.

Long story short Abraham learned not to be dependent on it. And to rely solely on God.

When we look to tarot, astrology for answer we by default acknowledge that God is not enough.

Much like the verse " You can't serve God and Money".

Money has its purpose. But to some it's their life and that is where it becomes evil.

it can become a balancing act and for most ppl they fall on one side or the other.
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Posted by Weeds
There is an old Jewish story regarding Abraham being into astrology.

Long story short Abraham learned not to be dependent on it. And to rely solely on God.

When we look to tarot, astrology for answer we by default acknowledge that God is not enough.

Much like the verse " You can't serve God and Money".

Money has its purpose. But to some it's their life and that is where it becomes evil.

it can become a balancing act and for most ppl they fall on one side or the other.
There is an old Jewish story regarding Abraham going to a doctor and using medicine. Long story short Abraham learned not to be dependent on it. And to rely solely on God.

When we look to doctors, medicine for help we by default acknowledge that God is not enough.

Much like the verse "You can't serve God and Money".

Money has its purpose. But to some it's their life and that is where it becomes evil.

it can become a balancing act and for most ppl they fall on one side or the other...

All parody aside, I think your post traps a person in a false dilemma: either you take up astrology and reject God or you serve God and reject astrology...

I think any rational person can say you can use medicine, buy a car, eat food, make money without you rejecting God. What makes astrology different?

I mean if you learn astrology and think you're suddenly more powerful than God and think you can overthrow God, that's pretty much like the devil. But that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. If you take it to an extreme, I don't think it's astrology itself that's at fault- I think you're at fault for abusing it.

I think you can have a relationship with God and still be into astrology and as long as you're not misusing astrology, I don't see how there's any contradiction. It's simply another branch of knowledge imo. Someone could use your argument against science... "If you use science, you're not relying on God, therefore using science means you reject God!"... astrology is simply a more ancient form of science.
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humility goes a long way when trying to be heard.

having said that, my Virgo bf is Southern Baptist and doesnt seem to have a problem having both in his life. he isn't as into astrology as I am however he is interested and learns quickly and asks questions a lot. I think curiosity is normal. free will comes into play when we decide what to do with that. while I may not be in agreement with him over spirituality, a live and let live sort of approach has worked for us.
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Posted by LilYanga11
Posted by Weeds
There is an old Jewish story regarding Abraham being into astrology.

Long story short Abraham learned not to be dependent on it. And to rely solely on God.

When we look to tarot, astrology for answer we by default acknowledge that God is not enough.

Much like the verse " You can't serve God and Money".

Money has its purpose. But to some it's their life and that is where it becomes evil.

it can become a balancing act and for most ppl they fall on one side or the other.
There is an old Jewish story regarding Abraham going to a doctor and using medicine. Long story short Abraham learned not to be dependent on it. And to rely solely on God.

When we look to doctors, medicine for help we by default acknowledge that God is not enough.

Much like the verse "You can't serve God and Money".

Money has its purpose. But to some it's their life and that is where it becomes evil.

it can become a balancing act and for most ppl they fall on one side or the other...

All parody aside, I think your post traps a person in a false dilemma: either you take up astrology and reject God or you serve God and reject astrology...

I think any rational person can say you can use medicine, buy a car, eat food, make money without you rejecting God. What makes astrology different?

I mean if you learn astrology and think you're suddenly more powerful than God and think you can overthrow God, that's pretty much like the devil. But that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. If you take it to an extreme, I don't think it's astrology itself that's at fault- I think you're at fault for abusing it.

I think you can have a relationship with God and still be into astrology and as long as you're not misusing astrology, I don't see how there's any contradiction. It's simply another branch of knowledge imo. Someone could use your argument against science... "If you use science, you're not relying on God, therefore using science means you reject God!"... astrology is simply a more ancient form of science.
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There are a very large number who don't use medicine or go to the dr for that exact reason.

But it's important to understand from a biblical perspective and not a fallible human perspective.

what is lawful to God?

What has God Allowed?

Obedience is key.

"On judgment day many will say to me, 'Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.'

But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws.'"

While you can reason all you like the final word is his.

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@blackphase I pray to multiple Gods. You took what I said out of context. I wasn't talking about say, a person who prays to Yemaya the Santeria Goddess or another "pagan" god. I was talking about an evil person. Someone like Hitler, for example- I think their god is the devil. I don't think that's a particularly ignorant sentiment.

Also, how can you say there's no such thing as right or wrong while simultaneously saying I'm wrong and also saying God doesn't smile upon witchcraft? If there's no such as right or wrong, I could rob you and burn your house down and there'd be nothing wrong with that. That's just following your logic to it's logical conclusion. But you're contradictory- if there's no such thing as right or wrong then how can there be anything wrong with my post? Why are you criticizing my post if it's not possible for my post or any post to be wrong? Please don't disagree with this post, as that would imply that its wrong and thus totally contradict your own philosophy.

As I said in another thread, no one actually lives by that philosophy. Otherwise I could rob you, burn your house down, commit the Holocaust and there'd be nothing wrong with any of these things and for you to say that any of those things are wrong would negate your own philosophy.
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Posted by blackphase
The fact that people even argue about shit like this is beyond me. What you believe effects YOU and only YOU.. It's what gets you through your life, who cares what anyone else believes.. it has no impact on you. And if you wanna be into occult type shit and still believe in God that's your choice.. you don't need anyone's validation on the matter.
Astrology is occult type stuff. I just made this so people could talk about Christianity.
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Posted by AbbyNormal
humility goes a long way when trying to be heard.

having said that, my Virgo bf is Southern Baptist and doesnt seem to have a problem having both in his life. he isn't as into astrology as I am however he is interested and learns quickly and asks questions a lot. I think curiosity is normal. free will comes into play when we decide what to do with that. while I may not be in agreement with him over spirituality, a live and let live sort of approach has worked for us.
I'm a Moon in Sagittarius so I'm very blunt... but also I think my op was misunderstood. I meant that evil people follow the devil, not that non-Christians follow the devil. I practice multiple religions, I'm not bigoted against other religions and I'm not an orthodox Christian. I don't necessarily take the Bible literally.

This was just meant as a place for Christians to talk about Christianity, I'm not out to demonize non-Christians. I'm a Muslim on Tuesdays.
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Posted by blackphase
Posted by LilYanga11
@blackphase I pray to multiple Gods. You took what I said out of context. I wasn't talking about say, a person who prays to Yemaya the Santeria Goddess or another "pagan" god. I was talking about an evil person. Someone like Hitler, for example- I think their god is the devil. I don't think that's a particularly ignorant sentiment.

Also, how can you say there's no such thing as right or wrong while simultaneously saying I'm wrong and also saying God doesn't smile upon witchcraft? If there's no such as right or wrong, I could rob you and burn your house down and there'd be nothing wrong with that. That's just following your logic to it's logical conclusion. But you're contradictory- if there's no such thing as right or wrong then how can there be anything wrong with my post? Why are you criticizing my post if it's not possible for my post or any post to be wrong? Please don't disagree with this post, as that would imply that its wrong and thus totally contradict your own philosophy.

As I said in another thread, no one actually lives by that philosophy. Otherwise I could rob you, burn your house down, commit the Holocaust and there'd be nothing wrong with any of these things and for you to say that any of those things are wrong would negate your own philosophy.
But.. just because someone is an evil person does not mean that they pray to the Devil.. :/

Most of them likely didn't even have a particular faith.. Can't say though, don't know.. But you can't just say every bad person worships the Devil.. yes that is ignorant.. I know a lot of terrible people that are Christians actually.. they tend to be among the most hypocritical people I've met.

I said.. "I'm pretty sure he doesn't smile upon it" Didn't say you were wrong.. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I don't buy into religion so you're wasting your time.. and half of what you said makes no sense.. I never said anything was wrong.. I was saying the opposite actually ?? Read..
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You keep misinterpreting me... Maybe it's my fault.

I believe there's evil forces and a person can actually gain power from them. When a person serves the devil, it could be literally, symbolically, whatever... there's people who follow evil and I have faith that good is more powerful than evil. That's all I'm really saying.

You keep pointing out what's wrong in my posts but without actually using the word "wrong"... you clearly have a conception of right and wrong, you just don't use those particular terms. Look, I don't think you're going to hell if you don't follow the Bible. I'm just saying that you clearly have a conception of right and wrong and we're arguing over semantics. Maybe you use a different terminology for the concepts ot maybe you don't even have a terminogy for...
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... the concepts but the concepts clearly exist in your thinking, just under different names or without names.
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Posted by blackphase
Posted by LilYanga11
Posted by blackphase
The fact that people even argue about shit like this is beyond me. What you believe effects YOU and only YOU.. It's what gets you through your life, who cares what anyone else believes.. it has no impact on you. And if you wanna be into occult type shit and still believe in God that's your choice.. you don't need anyone's validation on the matter.
Astrology is occult type stuff. I just made this so people could talk about Christianity.
Yes.. I am aware. I am pretty into Occult matters.. witch craft, tarot, and the sort... Mother Nature is my one and only God. So just becasue you have particular interest in things does not mean you have to abide by a certain religion.. It's your choice..
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Look... I like you, I think you make intelligent posts and I value what you have to say. I think we're arguing over semantics and misunderstandings. I like to debate philosophical issues but I think you seem like a cool person and as I mentioned- I practice multiple religions and I'm a Muslim on Tuesdays. I don't think you're going to hell cuz you're not a Christian and I'm also into Santeria, Hinduism, Taoism, Islam and a bunch of other stuff.

I'm just saying that good is more powerful than evil- that's all I really meant by the part of the OP that you highlighted. I'm not out to say you're a devil-worshipper. I could be considered a type of universalist and I think there's many paths to God (or the Tao or whatever you wanna call It). That being said, I do believe that there are demonic forces and I believe some people are controlled by them. I mean people who are evil. Like for example, I believe in the Illuminati. I think there is a dark side to the force to put things in star wars terms. But I don't mean people who practice other religions. This thing I call God and another might call Allah or the Tao or whatever name a person uses.... I don't think God is concerned with what religion we identify with so much as whether or not we're a good person.
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Also, a person who is controlled by demonic forces- I don't think that they're nessarily consciously aware that they're controlled by demonic forces.
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Posted by blackphase
The fact that people even argue about shit like this is beyond me. What you believe effects YOU and only YOU.. It's what gets you through your life, who cares what anyone else believes.. it has no impact on you. And if you wanna be into occult type shit and still believe in God that's your choice.. you don't need anyone's validation on the matter.
How many people are actually 100% religious who follow their version of the Bible to the T these days anyway? From what I see, most people just pick bits and pieces to hang onto while completely ignoring the rest. I say, stick with the common commandments and live your life in your own terms, not anyone else's.

Do no harm, don't steal, don't kill, be good to people. That's enough for me. Sure I'll falter every now and then, I'm human just like everyone else but as long as I genuinely believe in those principles, I'll be just fine and I'll let everyone else worry about their immortal souls or whatever.

Maybe I'm a tad biased because the Bible condemns homosexuals and oooooooh guess what I am. Secured myself an one-way ticket to Hell apparently just by being born. And no, it never was a choice for me. I can't be "cured".

But in any event, getting into theological debates never ends well. OP is free to believe into whatever he wants, I'm free to believe into whatever I want (or not), we'll agree to disagree, call it a tie and and move on.

PS: @blackphase, is it true you sacrifice cats on the Sabbath?
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"I think you're at fault for abusing it."


What would constitute an 'abuse' of astrology?

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