'Prove Jesus Existed' Judge Orders Priest
This topic was created in the Miscellaneous forum by MellowDee on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 and has 9 replies.
Take from url: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1967413,00.html
Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest
From Richard Owen in Rome
AN ITALIAN judge has ordered a priest to appear in court this month to prove that Jesus Christ existed.
The case against Father Enrico Righi has been brought in the town of Viterbo, north of Rome, by Luigi Cascioli, a retired agronomist who once studied for the priesthood but later became a militant atheist.
Signor Cascioli, author of a book called The Fable of Christ, began legal proceedings against Father Righi three years ago after the priest denounced Signor Cascioli in the parish newsletter for questioning Christ?s historical existence.
Yesterday Gaetano Mautone, a judge in Viterbo, set a preliminary hearing for the end of this month and ordered Father Righi to appear. The judge had earlier refused to take up the case, but was overruled last month by the Court of Appeal, which agreed that Signor Cascioli had a reasonable case for his accusation that Father Righi was ?abusing popular credulity?.
Signor Cascioli?s contention ? echoed in numerous atheist books and internet sites ? is that there was no reliable evidence that Jesus lived and died in 1st-century Palestine apart from the Gospel accounts, which Christians took on faith. There is therefore no basis for Christianity, he claims.
Signor Cascioli?s one-man campaign came to a head at a court hearing last April when he lodged his accusations of ?abuse of popular credulity? and ?impersonation?, both offences under the Italian penal code. He argued that all claims for the existence of Jesus from sources other than the Bible stem from authors who lived ?after the time of the hypothetical Jesus? and were therefore not reliable witnesses.
Signor Cascioli maintains that early Christian writers confused Jesus with John of Gamala, an anti-Roman Jewish insurgent in 1st-century Palestine. Church authorities were therefore guilty of ?substitution of persons?.
The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius mention a ?Christus? or ?Chrestus?, but were writing ?well after the life of the purported Jesus? and were relying on hearsay.
Father Righi said there was overwhelming testimony to Christ?s existence in religious and secular texts. Millions had in any case believed in Christ as both man and Son of God for 2,000 years.
?If Cascioli does not see the sun in the sky at midday, he cannot sue me because I see it and he does not,? Father Righi said.
Signor Cascioli said that the Gospels themselves were full of inconsistencies and did not agree on the names of the 12 apostles. He said that he would withdraw his legal action if Father Righi came up with irrefutable proof of Christ?s existence by the end of the month.
The Vatican has so far declined to comment.
THE EVIDENCE
The Gospels say that Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary in Bethlehem, grew up in Nazareth, preached and performed miracles in Galilee and died on the Cross in Jerusalem
In his Antiquities of the Jews at the end of the 1st century, Josephus, the Jewish historian, refers to Jesus as ?a wise man, a doer of wonderful works? who ?drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles?
Muslims believe Jesus was a great prophet. Many Jewish theologians regard Jesus as an itinerant rabbi who popularised many of the beliefs of liberal Jews. Neither Muslims nor Jews believe he was the Messiah and Son of God
Tacitus, the Roman historian who lived from 55 to 120, mentions ?Christus? in his Annals. In about 120 Suetonius, author of The Lives of the Caesars, says: ?Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, Emperor Claudius expelled them from Rome.?
Hmm
About Jesus?.
I don?t have any intentions to defame someone's belief system.. I ma not religious, (I hate that actually).
One thing to say first.. Muslims believe (strongly) that Jesus were prophet (not god.. and not son of god). However.. Jews never accepted his status e.g. as (GOD, Son of God, or prophet, or promised messiah) that?s for sure?!
Now.. something about Jesus.. (my own meaning and opinion and I am not saying it to offend anyone).
Ok..?
If you follow the Christ and his teachings?.!
Do you believe in ?CHRISTIANITY? OR ?CHURCHIANITY?..??
If you are Christian:
JESUS NEVER SAID TO BUILD CHURCH BUILDINGS. He said to "love God and others and put God's Kingdom first, and forsake all, go, preach the good news." (Matt. 6:33, 22:37-39; Luke 14:33; Mark 16:15)
WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT
JESUS NEVER SAID TO BUILD CHURCH BUILDINGS. He said to "love God and others and put God's Kingdom first, and forsake all, go, preach the good news." (Matt. 6:33, 22:37-39; Luke 14:33; Mark 16:15)
THE WORD "CHURCH" ITSELF COMES FROM THE GREEK WORD "ECCELESIA" AND LITERALLY MEANS THE "CALLED OUT ONES", or the "separate ones" the "set apart one"--or the dropouts! "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing (the System); and I will receive you." (2 Cor. 6:17)
THE TRUE CHURCH ARE THE GENUINE CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS in God who follow Jesus--the born again, saved Body of Christ--not a building or a denomination or a religion. God gave Jesus "to be the head over... the Church, which is His Body." (Eph. 1:22,23) So anyone who believes in Jesus is part of the Church! Anyone or anything else is not the Church!
WE DO NOT HATE THOSE WHO ARE NOT PART OF THE CHURCH, but we do hate the hypocrisy, self-righteousness, lies and deceitfulness of those who claim to be the Church but are not; and we hate the spiritual system of the Devil which is behind them.
JESUS EVEN COMMENDED THE EPHESIAN CHURCH for this, saying, "this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans (false apostles), which I also hate." (Rev. 2:6; see also Ps. 97:10)
I WAS SITTING IN "ANAHEIM DELUSION CENTER" (a big church building in California) and the Lord spoke as clearly to me as He ever had: "This is strong delusion!" Deceiving His people!
CHURCHIANITY IS EQUATED WITH GOD and the building with His service. The delusion has become so strong that today the name "church" no longer means anything but a building! The name "Christian" no longer means anything either! It usually means just some kind of hypocritical, self-righteous church person who goes to that building on Sunday!
THE CHURCH TODAY BEARS NO MORE RESEMBLANCE TO JESUS AND HIS DISCIPLES AND EARLY CHRISTIANS THAN CAPITALISM DOES TO COMMUNISM. Yet the church says, "If you aren't going to church and following our way, then you're wrong." How can they be so deceived? Because they rejected the Truth!
WHY DO THEY REJECT THE TRUTH? Because they're unwilling to pay the price! "Because they received not the love of the truth... for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they might believe a lie." (2 Thess. 2:10,11)
THE MAIN LYING DELUSION behind the church system and the way of all false religions is that they are all dependent upon self--righteousness and their own way. Paul said about the Jews, the church system of his day, "They have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness (through grace) and going about to establish their own righteousness (through religion) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." (Ro. 10:2,3)
ALSO, THE CHURCHES HAVE NOT SHARED MUCH WITH THE POOR, but sucked and squeezed the last drop out of the poor to build their fancy cathedrals and idols and live in luxury.
About Jesus?.
I don?t have any intentions to defame someone's belief system.. I ma not religious, (I hate that actually).
One thing to say first.. Muslims believe (strongly) that Jesus were prophet (not god.. and not son of god). However.. Jews never accepted his status e.g. as (GOD, Son of God, or prophet, or promised messiah) that?s for sure?!
Now.. something about Jesus.. (my own meaning and opinion and I am not saying it to offend anyone).
Ok..?
If you follow the Christ and his teachings?.!
Do you believe in ?CHRISTIANITY? OR ?CHURCHIANITY?..??
If you are Christian:
JESUS NEVER SAID TO BUILD CHURCH BUILDINGS. He said to "love God and others and put God's Kingdom first, and forsake all, go, preach the good news." (Matt. 6:33, 22:37-39; Luke 14:33; Mark 16:15)
WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT
JESUS NEVER SAID TO BUILD CHURCH BUILDINGS. He said to "love God and others and put God's Kingdom first, and forsake all, go, preach the good news." (Matt. 6:33, 22:37-39; Luke 14:33; Mark 16:15)
THE WORD "CHURCH" ITSELF COMES FROM THE GREEK WORD "ECCELESIA" AND LITERALLY MEANS THE "CALLED OUT ONES", or the "separate ones" the "set apart one"--or the dropouts! "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing (the System); and I will receive you." (2 Cor. 6:17)
THE TRUE CHURCH ARE THE GENUINE CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS in God who follow Jesus--the born again, saved Body of Christ--not a building or a denomination or a religion. God gave Jesus "to be the head over... the Church, which is His Body." (Eph. 1:22,23) So anyone who believes in Jesus is part of the Church! Anyone or anything else is not the Church!
WE DO NOT HATE THOSE WHO ARE NOT PART OF THE CHURCH, but we do hate the hypocrisy, self-righteousness, lies and deceitfulness of those who claim to be the Church but are not; and we hate the spiritual system of the Devil which is behind them.
JESUS EVEN COMMENDED THE EPHESIAN CHURCH for this, saying, "this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans (false apostles), which I also hate." (Rev. 2:6; see also Ps. 97:10)
I WAS SITTING IN "ANAHEIM DELUSION CENTER" (a big church building in California) and the Lord spoke as clearly to me as He ever had: "This is strong delusion!" Deceiving His people!
CHURCHIANITY IS EQUATED WITH GOD and the building with His service. The delusion has become so strong that today the name "church" no longer means anything but a building! The name "Christian" no longer means anything either! It usually means just some kind of hypocritical, self-righteous church person who goes to that building on Sunday!
THE CHURCH TODAY BEARS NO MORE RESEMBLANCE TO JESUS AND HIS DISCIPLES AND EARLY CHRISTIANS THAN CAPITALISM DOES TO COMMUNISM. Yet the church says, "If you aren't going to church and following our way, then you're wrong." How can they be so deceived? Because they rejected the Truth!
WHY DO THEY REJECT THE TRUTH? Because they're unwilling to pay the price! "Because they received not the love of the truth... for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they might believe a lie." (2 Thess. 2:10,11)
THE MAIN LYING DELUSION behind the church system and the way of all false religions is that they are all dependent upon self--righteousness and their own way. Paul said about the Jews, the church system of his day, "They have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness (through grace) and going about to establish their own righteousness (through religion) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." (Ro. 10:2,3)
ALSO, THE CHURCHES HAVE NOT SHARED MUCH WITH THE POOR, but sucked and squeezed the last drop out of the poor to build their fancy cathedrals and idols and live in luxury.
And even if this is what he indeed was, he is still something good and inspirational to believe in.
I'll do respect for what you said..
Jesus is for believing? or else he is nothing?like me?
Jesus is for believing? or else he is nothing?like me?
Come and go something
Jesus provided leadership to stand up against injustice and equality of humankind.. be it class based, racism or discrimination against the sick (lepers).
Good news there is an religion place on here
Don't ask me to wish you happy Easter, because I don't believe the dame thing?
But have fun anyway???.
But have fun anyway???.
my opinion wat is chirst to me:
1.the son of god ( redeemer of Isreal), Savior...creator of heaven and earth...
2.perfect example of forgiveness.... those who were crying out for his death he asked the father to forgive them ' for they know not what they do'... WOW.. that aint easy....
3. PERFECT example of Humility... washing the feet of his disciples... showing us how we need to be humble and no one is inferior or superior to n e one else..
4. my big bro
hes just BOOMBASTIC....love him to bitz
1.the son of god ( redeemer of Isreal), Savior...creator of heaven and earth...
2.perfect example of forgiveness.... those who were crying out for his death he asked the father to forgive them ' for they know not what they do'... WOW.. that aint easy....
3. PERFECT example of Humility... washing the feet of his disciples... showing us how we need to be humble and no one is inferior or superior to n e one else..
4. my big bro
hes just BOOMBASTIC....love him to bitz
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