Physics laws flawed
This topic was created in the Science & Technology forum by Qbone on Friday, December 14, 2007 and has 14 replies.
A Swinburne astrophysicist has leapt another hurdle in the path to proving that our fundamental theories of physics are not what they seem.
Dr Michael Murphy is part of a team that has, over recent years, uncovered surprising and controversial evidence suggesting the laws of physics may have been changing through cosmic time. In this latest move, Murphy has debunked a study which claimed to disprove his findings.
Murphy's research into the laws of Nature goes back eight years, and concerns our understanding of electromagnetism, the force of nature that determines the sounds we hear, the light we see, and how atoms are held together to form solids. Through the study of electromagnetism in galaxies ten billion light years away, he has challenged the fundamental assumption that the strength of electromagnetism has been constant through time.
?Back in 2001 we published evidence showing a small change in the fine structure constant, the number that physicists use to characterise the strength of electromagnetism,? Murphy said.
?Even though the change that we think we see in the data is quite small, about five parts in a million, it would be enough to demonstrate that our current understanding must in fact be wrong. It's an important discovery if correct. It suggests to physicists that there's an underlying set of theories we're yet to broach and understand.?
Physicists have been chasing results like these for a number of years, but since 1999, Murphy and his co-researchers have been ahead of the pack. They've published a series of observations from the Keck Telescope in Hawaii as further evidence of a varying fine structure constant. But, a few years ago, another research team claimed that data from a different telescope contradicted Murphy's observations.
However, he's been able to prove that the contradictory work itself was flawed. ?We've shown that the way the data was analysed was faulty,? he said. ?Their procedures were faulty so the numbers that came out are meaningless. Our paper points this out. When you replicate their analysis and fix their problems, you get a very very different answer indeed.?
Dr Michael Murphy is part of a team that has, over recent years, uncovered surprising and controversial evidence suggesting the laws of physics may have been changing through cosmic time. In this latest move, Murphy has debunked a study which claimed to disprove his findings.
Murphy's research into the laws of Nature goes back eight years, and concerns our understanding of electromagnetism, the force of nature that determines the sounds we hear, the light we see, and how atoms are held together to form solids. Through the study of electromagnetism in galaxies ten billion light years away, he has challenged the fundamental assumption that the strength of electromagnetism has been constant through time.
?Back in 2001 we published evidence showing a small change in the fine structure constant, the number that physicists use to characterise the strength of electromagnetism,? Murphy said.
?Even though the change that we think we see in the data is quite small, about five parts in a million, it would be enough to demonstrate that our current understanding must in fact be wrong. It's an important discovery if correct. It suggests to physicists that there's an underlying set of theories we're yet to broach and understand.?
Physicists have been chasing results like these for a number of years, but since 1999, Murphy and his co-researchers have been ahead of the pack. They've published a series of observations from the Keck Telescope in Hawaii as further evidence of a varying fine structure constant. But, a few years ago, another research team claimed that data from a different telescope contradicted Murphy's observations.
However, he's been able to prove that the contradictory work itself was flawed. ?We've shown that the way the data was analysed was faulty,? he said. ?Their procedures were faulty so the numbers that came out are meaningless. Our paper points this out. When you replicate their analysis and fix their problems, you get a very very different answer indeed.?
Murphy has a ?comment' about this latest work in this week's issue of the journal Physical Review Letters. It's the most difficult journal for physicists to get published in, and is the one they turn to for important results in their field.
This latest step is not the end of the road though in convincing scientists across the world that they need to rethink their ideas about electromagnetism. Even though this study also produced results that agree with his initial Keck findings, Murphy said there's still work to be done.
?There are some problems that need addressing,? he said. ?It's quite a surprising result and one that probably many people need a lot more convincing on. It will take some time, but we're doing that job.?
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20071012-16699-2.html
This latest step is not the end of the road though in convincing scientists across the world that they need to rethink their ideas about electromagnetism. Even though this study also produced results that agree with his initial Keck findings, Murphy said there's still work to be done.
?There are some problems that need addressing,? he said. ?It's quite a surprising result and one that probably many people need a lot more convincing on. It will take some time, but we're doing that job.?
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20071012-16699-2.html
This might explain miracles
Many religious traditions have a concept of a Golden Age, when matter had not completely coalesced, and humanity lived between heaven and earth. According to the Greeks, there are three more ages after the "fall" (another common religious and mythological motif), each less perfect and more "material" than the last: the Silver age, the Bronze age, and our present Iron age. These correspond to the Hindu Yugas: Satya, Treta, Dwapara, and the present Kali Yuga.
Perhaps things that would be considered miraculous today would have been considered commonplace if you go far enough back.
Many religious traditions have a concept of a Golden Age, when matter had not completely coalesced, and humanity lived between heaven and earth. According to the Greeks, there are three more ages after the "fall" (another common religious and mythological motif), each less perfect and more "material" than the last: the Silver age, the Bronze age, and our present Iron age. These correspond to the Hindu Yugas: Satya, Treta, Dwapara, and the present Kali Yuga.
Perhaps things that would be considered miraculous today would have been considered commonplace if you go far enough back.
If water changes into wine, we don't know that could happen unless the laws of physics were not as absolute as we believe.
I am just putting this in so you are not alone.
What a relief?. Thanks old mate..!
Physics is not flawed...just misunderstood actually. Misapplied as well. Once they said that Einsteins theory was flawed, but now support it.
Though i do not beleive in many constants, due to the vast array of variables and rates of accelerated life one way or another due to another variable, I do beleieve that modern physics is a solid beginning to the metaphysical as well as physical.
Though i do not beleive in many constants, due to the vast array of variables and rates of accelerated life one way or another due to another variable, I do beleieve that modern physics is a solid beginning to the metaphysical as well as physical.
The metaphysics that informs the understanding of modern-day physics is certainly flawed. Any so-called "law" is nothing more than either a statistical or logical statement or proposition, which is timelessly true. In light of this, thus, if a statistical or logical statement or proposition of physics (i.e., "law of physics") changes, then this same statistical or logical statement or proposition of physics is not a "law."
Signed Up: Mar 27, 2010
Comments: 2 · Posts: 2394 · Topics: 102
Comments: 2 · Posts: 2394 · Topics: 102
Beyond metaphysics is theoretical physics...
Signed Up: Mar 27, 2010
Comments: 2 · Posts: 2394 · Topics: 102
Comments: 2 · Posts: 2394 · Topics: 102
Beyond metaphysics is theoretical physics...
Here is an example of a simple theory:
The world was considered to be flat but was proven to be round; The theory of the universe says that the universe can be flat, but the universe can be round.
What might you think it may be?
One of many questions theorist have...
Here is an example of a simple theory:
The world was considered to be flat but was proven to be round; The theory of the universe says that the universe can be flat, but the universe can be round.
What might you think it may be?
One of many questions theorist have...
Physicis you have the laws of the very big and the laws of the very small. At this point in time they do not seem to mesh
we can only account for three dimensions that is wrong we can only see and study three.
I believe there are 10 or 11 dimensions.
right now this only gives us four coordinates to determin a position in space and time.
we need to determine uniquely each element of the system
mathematical entities as an aggregate of points in realor abstract space.
the number of elements in a basis of vector space
the quality of spatial extension
elements or factors making up a complete entity
and so forth and so on.
Dark matter or engery is 75% of what is there
I feel if all is ever known before we distory ourself we will relize that at this point in time we were like childern trying to solve a simple math problem.
ether that or its the whisky talking.
we can only account for three dimensions that is wrong we can only see and study three.
I believe there are 10 or 11 dimensions.
right now this only gives us four coordinates to determin a position in space and time.
we need to determine uniquely each element of the system
mathematical entities as an aggregate of points in realor abstract space.
the number of elements in a basis of vector space
the quality of spatial extension
elements or factors making up a complete entity
and so forth and so on.
Dark matter or engery is 75% of what is there
I feel if all is ever known before we distory ourself we will relize that at this point in time we were like childern trying to solve a simple math problem.
ether that or its the whisky talking.
Signed Up: Mar 27, 2010
Comments: 2 · Posts: 2394 · Topics: 102
Comments: 2 · Posts: 2394 · Topics: 102
http://freeproxyserver.net/index.php?q=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5keHBuZXQuY29tL29waW5pb24vbWVzc2FnZXMuYXNwP3A9MSZpZD0xMTQwMjI5IzIyNDk1ODU% 3D#essages.asp?p=1&id=1140229#2249585\">Posted by james tate
Physicis you have the laws of the very big and the laws of the very small. At this point in time they do not seem to mesh
we can only account for three dimensions that is wrong we can only see and study three.
I believe there are 10 or 11 dimensions.
In string theory, the 11th dimension is the furthest theory to attain, but in M-theory, you expand each string and create branes, which create alternative realms that involves our own realm and makes our universe as nothing special than the universe next to us, and these universes be inches away from us or at the end of space, but if they are existent then how are they real, and how do we not touch them? Most obvious answer is that we are stuck in the realm of the third dimension, and we are incapable of fathoming the 12th dimension without bending or folding the dimensions above.
I have a theory, but i think it may work, but only in a form of a theory...
Signed Up: Mar 27, 2010
Comments: 2 · Posts: 2394 · Topics: 102
Comments: 2 · Posts: 2394 · Topics: 102
Oh yeah, I meant physics not metaphysics hahaha.
Twingoat, theoretical physics isn\'t called theoretical for nothing hahaha.
Twingoat, theoretical physics isn\'t called theoretical for nothing hahaha.
SFP can you lay the theory out here?
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