Beautiful Scorpio Woman: Why art thou so stubborn?

This topic was created in the Scorpio forum by ewashington7000 on Monday, August 9, 2010 and has 208 replies.
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Why art thou, beauteous Scorpio woman, sometimes so resistant to truth, even pertinaciously when protecting your female pride?
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Posted by scorpio_chic
A lot of times, my truth differs from others. So I guess it just depends on what exactly you're talking about and what that truth is. Whether it's your truth or just pure fact.
Your comment was kind of vague... LOL you know scorpios are extreme black or white. No gray areas... you need to be a bit more specific. :]
Or maybe I'm just looking too much into it... lol very scorpio of me. Winking



Truth is not variable; but definitions of truth are. Thus, truth is (logically) equivalent to pure fact.
Nevertheless, my comment refers to the stubborn persistence (or resistance) that some Scorpio women have when facing the truth, especially as it pertains to protecting their (women) prides, respectively. That is to say, some Scorpio women would rather die, as it seems, then to simply speak honestly about what they respectively feel; and this, to many, is considered 'passionate.' (Go figure)
But fret not: You have not been looking 'too much into it': at least not as much as myself....lol smile
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Posted by ScorpioDreamer
Yeah, just explain a tad more so we know exactly what you mean. Thank you. smile



I've left the question 'somewhat' general, that it may produce more specific answers or responses.
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Posted by seavixen2
awww it's so sweet how enamored you are

Methinks I've gotten myself into a romantic quagmire; but the romantic within me, I'm persuaded, will ease this difficulty.
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Posted by ScorpioDreamer
Well, for me it's fear of putting myself out there. I hate feeling vulnerable. I have to really know and trust the person to be able to do this. To know that he wont judge me or reject me. It hurts me too much and I'd just rather not go through it.


So are you saying that instead of revealing your vulnerability, you much rather pretend contrariwise? If so, although understandable, will this not mislead another (possibly including yourself), further complicating matters?
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Posted by ScorpDragon
Posted by ScorpioDreamer
Well, for me it's fear of putting myself out there. I hate feeling vulnerable. I have to really know and trust the person to be able to do this. To know that he wont judge me or reject me. It hurts me too much and I'd just rather not go through it.


I think every Scorpio feels this way, deep down.

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If this is true, then this seems sad to me. Is this not somewhat akin to letting one's fears dictate her or his life?
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Posted by ScorpioDreamer
Well, for me it's fear of putting myself out there. I hate feeling vulnerable. I have to really know and trust the person to be able to do this. To know that he wont judge me or reject me. It hurts me too much and I'd just rather not go through it.


I think every human on the planet feels this way. It takes a lot of guts to lay yourself out on the line. To admit feelings is frightening and there is always the possibility of rejection. Wouldn't life be simple if you could just tell someone you cared about them with no issue?
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Posted by venusianbull
Posted by ScorpioDreamer
Well, for me it's fear of putting myself out there. I hate feeling vulnerable. I have to really know and trust the person to be able to do this. To know that he wont judge me or reject me. It hurts me too much and I'd just rather not go through it.


I think every human on the planet feels this way. It takes a lot of guts to lay yourself out on the line. To admit feelings is frightening and there is always the possibility of rejection. Wouldn't life be simple if you could just tell someone you cared about them with no issue?
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I agree. But such possibilities needn't be frightening. In my experiences, nonetheless, I have learned to just lay my feelings bare (with discretion). For me, that is, to not admit what I feel is equivalent (materially) to emotional constipation. Thus, laying my feelings bare is akin to emotionally moving my bowels. smile
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Posted by scorpio_chic
Or there's always the possibility she simply doesn't feel those things that you think she does.
I make my feelings known loud & clear. Nobody has to guess what I am feeling, and if I'm denying that I feel something, it's probably because I don't feel it. But that might just be me.



In the measure that a thing is not inherently inconsistent or self-contradictory (i.e., necessarily false), it always possible. In other words, if something is not actually impossible, it is possible. smile
Having said this, one can call a dog a pig as much as one's heart desires; but if that dog does not produce pork bacon, then guess what? It not a pig.
But you've spoken on something that I've mentioned some time ago. Namely, that most Scorpio ladies that I know make their feelings "known loud & clear"; and usually, folk do not need to guess what these same ladies are feeling, respectively.
But my experience also suggests to me that, probably, if a Scorpio woman is denying that she feels something for another, she'll make this fact unmistakably known, lest any further distress arises. (It seems to me that the 'distress' is often reserved for the individual that interests her.) (Go figure)
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Posted by LovelyScorp
It's not the fear of sharing the feelings.
It's the fear of the heartache once the feelings are exposed and possibly not reciprocated.


I say fear it's fear that's the cause of so much confusion.
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Posted by venusianbull
Posted by ScorpioDreamer
Well, for me it's fear of putting myself out there. I hate feeling vulnerable. I have to really know and trust the person to be able to do this. To know that he wont judge me or reject me. It hurts me too much and I'd just rather not go through it.


I think every human on the planet feels this way. It takes a lot of guts to lay yourself out on the line. To admit feelings is frightening and there is always the possibility of rejection. Wouldn't life be simple if you could just tell someone you cared about them with no issue?
click to expand


The only people I know who don't seem to mind are fire signs. They just really seem to be okay with throwing all their cards on the table and saying "There it is. You want it?" Especially my Aries friends.
I envy that, actually. I don't know how they do it. ::shrug::
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Posted by ewashington7000
Why art thou, beauteous Scorpio woman, sometimes so resistant to truth, even pertinaciously when protecting your female pride?


Scorpio women are not "stubborn" but rather "strong-willed".
That would indicates that nothing will move or change them
no matter if it is a good idea or not and it is the sure way
to destruction...after enduring a lot of punishment.
Stubbornness is a terrible delusional weakness
that deceives the afflicted into believing they
are strong - therefore they have TWO weaknesses.
Taurus - digs in her heels just to show you she can
Aries - too insecure to be wrong - so she'll argue
that she's right as soon as she sees she is wrong
Scorpio women are STRONG - WILLED.
They won't back down if they KNOW it is right.
They will endure great hardships for a better outcome.
They will hold-out for someone who knows what they
want ( sometimes takes a long time )
But they can be very easily moved to see
that you are it ...IF AND ONLY IF you are.
Because you can only move them through understanding
and giving them what they want.
I know why they have a mean great streak.
They seek one who is stronger and with whom they can be weak
and give their heart of gold.




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@ aquilascorpiusfemina
One's vulnerability can be used against her- or himself, but it is not necessarily true that one's vulnerability 'will' be used against her- or himself. But you say this as though it is a necessary truth or sure thing.
Nevertheless, I have recognized the deep yearnings of some of you Scorpio ladies to fully express yourselves, respectively. But I am not persuaded that insecurity is a positive trait, essential to developing trust.
But if, according to you, Scorpios are dead serious about everything, why are they sometimes not dead serious about removing their sense of insecurity?
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Posted by Beetleguese
Posted by venusianbull
Posted by ScorpioDreamer
Well, for me it's fear of putting myself out there. I hate feeling vulnerable. I have to really know and trust the person to be able to do this. To know that he wont judge me or reject me. It hurts me too much and I'd just rather not go through it.


I think every human on the planet feels this way. It takes a lot of guts to lay yourself out on the line. To admit feelings is frightening and there is always the possibility of rejection. Wouldn't life be simple if you could just tell someone you cared about them with no issue?


Some people do this, I've heard that it's a rather frightening and at the same time enlightening experience.
Food for thought; if you are wrong when you bare your soul and suffer the heartache of rejection, will you not also suffer the same rejection months or years down the road when you do finally trust the person enough to speak up and find out that you are wrong then? If you are right will you not save thousands of hours of torment in wondering if this person loves you? Revealing your feelings as soon as they are within you and you think they might be within them will also cut down on the grieving time if you are wrong.
It's a win/win situation either way. It just takes an entirely different approach to relationships, or so I've heardsmile

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I wholeheartedly agree. Yours is, in my opinion, a more mature position.
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Posted by Sea Siren
Posted by venusianbull
Posted by ScorpioDreamer
Well, for me it's fear of putting myself out there. I hate feeling vulnerable. I have to really know and trust the person to be able to do this. To know that he wont judge me or reject me. It hurts me too much and I'd just rather not go through it.


I think every human on the planet feels this way. It takes a lot of guts to lay yourself out on the line. To admit feelings is frightening and there is always the possibility of rejection. Wouldn't life be simple if you could just tell someone you cared about them with no issue?


The only people I know who don't seem to mind are fire signs. They just really seem to be okay with throwing all their cards on the table and saying "There it is. You want it?" Especially my Aries friends.
I envy that, actually. I don't know how they do it. ::shrug::
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What about Air signs?
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@ scorpiopics
You've just stated that "Scorpio women are not "stubborn" but rather "strong-willed""; but then that this "
indicates that nothing will move or change them no matter IF IT IS A GOOD IDEA OR NOT and it is the sure way
to destruction...after enduring a lot of punishment."
Is this not the (lexical) definition of 'stubborn'? If a person is 'strong-willed' such that 'nothing will move or change them no matter if it is a good idea or not and it is the sure way to destruction...after enduring a lot of punishment," not only is this person stubborn but this person is also pertinaciously stubborn - by definition.
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Posted by DyTryin

Your Scorpio Woman isn't stubborn... she's determined.


You are absolutely right. She is determined to be stubborn. So, 'seems like we are still back to first base - literally.
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Posted by ewashington7000

@ scorpiopics
You've just stated that "Scorpio women are not "stubborn" but rather "strong-willed""; but then that this "
indicates that nothing will move or change them no matter IF IT IS A GOOD IDEA OR NOT and it is the sure way
to destruction...after enduring a lot of punishment."
Is this not the (lexical) definition of 'stubborn'? If a person is 'strong-willed' such that 'nothing will move or change them no matter if it is a good idea or not and it is the sure way to destruction...after enduring a lot of punishment," not only is this person stubborn but this person is also pertinaciously stubborn - by definition.


Ahhh ...I see the problem. I have failed you.
Allow me please a second chance:
Stubbornness is when we don't give-in, even if we "should".
Strong-will is the grit to hold-out when we know we "must".
- For example, she won't "Settle for" anything less than what she wants and needs.
- She is not "easily led" or fooled and is scared if "too happy for her own good".
I can see how one can be confused between "Stubborn" and "Strong-willed"
if you don't know "why" the person won't give-in.
The Scorpio female will absolutely move/change if you give her the right reason.
If you have it ...she will. She LOOKS FOR someone who can GIVE HER the reason.
In fact ... a Scorpio female enjoys TWO THINGS more than anything else in the world
1 - Being showed why your way/idea/direction is better
... she's then safer WITH you than WITHOUT you ...
IF YOU HAVE THE BALLS TO STICK TO IT AND MAKE IT SO.
2 - (This secret I will tell you for $ 1,000,000,000 and a safe place to hide )
( Uh ...yes, that's Billion with a "B". )
Sometimes she needs to think about it for a while
if it is a BIG change or gamble for her to change.
She may even disappear to do this thinking and expect you to wait, solid.
This is a test that she doesn't even know is a test.
It's the one that proves you are not a Sagittarius. lol
But if you DON'T have the right reason to move her
... she may be nice to you and let you think she's just stubborn.
I can assure you that she's not "stubborn".
Any Scorpio females want to second this for him?
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A Scorpio woman's vulnerabilities are not always used against her. Are you telling me that in light of the flawed nature of human beings, there never has been, never is, nor ever will be a person who has NOT used a Scorpio's vulnerable against her or him? I find that highly implausible.
Regarding insecurity, I've commented in response to a notion that insecurity is somehow not a bad trait. Nevertheless, from what are you inferring that I am equating "vulnerability" with "insecurity" ?
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I thought the Libra's had made it official ... Scorps and Libras don't work.
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Posted by LovelyScorp
Posted by ewashington7000
Are you telling me that in light of the flawed nature of human beings, there never has been, never is, nor ever will be a person who has NOT used a Scorpio's vulnerable against her or him? .
Are you inferring that I am equating "vulnerability" with "insecurity" ?


I answer yes to both your questions.
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Then you do know that you sadly mistaken. If you reread my posts, it will demonstrate that neither is true.
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Posted by LovelyScorp
Posted by LovelyScorp
scorpiopics is correct.
stop doing the libra dance and listen to her heart. even if it is silent at the moment. stop trying to figure her out. that will happen later (only if she allows you, of course). let things be, take it slow.



....and by the way don't you have 9 more days to go? Woot! Woot! (I think, sorry if my count is off). Let me know the exact count because I want to give you a proper homecoming smile
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It's T minus 12 days, and counting....lol Thanks....
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scorpionpics is correct u'll need to give us exactly what we need & want...to promote any reaction or interest
there is no middle ground
I wish u much success in ur pursuit ewash
now Sammy baby if I'm ever wrong I'll answer ur question...promise smile
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Posted by ewashington7000
What about Air signs?


I think that, in general, even air signs take a bit more time than fire to lay it on the line, so to speak. smile
Air signs are analytical. They're used to being able to dissect things and reassemble them in order to understand them logically. But when it comes to love and emotions, these things are often irrational and illogical. So Air gets frustrated, because he/she can't take it apart, find what's wrong or what's broken and fix it, and then put it back together again. Air signs also seem to be able to more easily detach from their emotions if their mind tells them that a feeling is illogical, because they are more likely to follow their head than their heart. They seem to trust their head more because that's where they spend most of their time.
With a water person, everything is the opposite. We don't try to intellectually interpret emotion because we know it can't be done. We're just gonna feel the way we feel until we don't feel that way anymore, and that's that. We can't detach either, because we feel, therefore we are - so at times it gets overwhelming.
We all have our own obstacles when it comes to love and relationships. This is just what I've observed over the years, E, and my take on it. I have a ton of air sign peeps in my family, including both of my parents and I was the only water. I love them to death, but we def. see the world through a different lense. smile
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You are too smart for the Scorpio woman .. she wants someone to whom she has control over and how can she have control over a guy who is too strong to tame?
You can easily get her number ... you're not lame enough for her ... the Scorpio only needs to be in total control of a man to be happy.

Again .. the Libras already made it official .. you two won't work.
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Posted by pigeonpie
*loads gunfingaz and aims at water signs*
Tongue


lol Hey, watch where you're pointing that thing! You might hit half of yourself. Tongue
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Posted by pigeonpie
I've shot myself in the foot many a time, Seasiren smile


HAHA! You, too???!! Winking
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Sometimes you can shoot yourself in the foot and THEN it ends up in your mouth. Those days are the worst! It's also tough finding shoes that will fit.
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Beautiful Scorpio Woman: Why art thou so stubborn?

I already answered your question ... it's because they want to control you, and if you resist then they will become stubborn while still leading you on so that you will continue to chase them. Their aim is to eventually wear you down, so that you will cave in and let them have total dominance over you.
If you do cave in, you will have to eye-ball another woman once in a while, or do something to get her upset so that she has something to tame .... because if you don't then she will create paranoid jealousy in you, to make the situatio in which she needs to control.

I hope you are quite prepared to lay under her feet, E
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Posted by P-Angel
Beautiful Scorpio Woman: Why art thou so stubborn?

I already answered your question ... it's because they want to control you, and if you resist then they will become stubborn while still leading you on so that you will continue to chase them. Their aim is to eventually wear you down, so that you will cave in and let them have total dominance over you.
If you do cave in, you will have to eye-ball another woman once in a while, or do something to get her upset so that she has something to tame .... because if you don't then she will create paranoid jealousy in you, to make the situatio in which she needs to control.

I hope you are quite prepared to lay under her feet, E


Your assessment does not consider the fact that I am not given to stubborn mind games, as I am not persuaded by them. Also, my nature is to analyze a matter, but this doesn't preclude the fact that I am quite attuned to my intuitions.
But you speak as though jealousy and control are the governing realities of a woman born underneath the influence of the zodiac Scorpio.
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Posted by P-Angel
You are too smart for the Scorpio woman .. she wants someone to whom she has control over and how can she have control over a guy who is too strong to tame?
You can easily get her number ... you're not lame enough for her ... the Scorpio only needs to be in total control of a man to be happy.

Again .. the Libras already made it official .. you two won't work.


I am never too smart for any woman, let alone a Scorpio. But perhaps you ought to have read some of my rebuttals to claims that a couple's zodiac sign somehow dictates the compatibility between the two . That is to say, there is nothing 'official' about declaring whether two individual will work, aside from the behaviors of those two selfsame individuals.
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Posted by Sea Siren
Posted by ewashington7000
What about Air signs?


I think that, in general, even air signs take a bit more time than fire to lay it on the line, so to speak. smile
Air signs are analytical. They're used to being able to dissect things and reassemble them in order to understand them logically. But when it comes to love and emotions, these things are often irrational and illogical. So Air gets frustrated, because he/she can't take it apart, find what's wrong or what's broken and fix it, and then put it back together again. Air signs also seem to be able to more easily detach from their emotions if their mind tells them that a feeling is illogical, because they are more likely to follow their head than their heart. They seem to trust their head more because that's where they spend most of their time.
With a water person, everything is the opposite. We don't try to intellectually interpret emotion because we know it can't be done. We're just gonna feel the way we feel until we don't feel that way anymore, and that's that. We can't detach either, because we feel, therefore we are - so at times it gets overwhelming.
We all have our own obstacles when it comes to love and relationships. This is just what I've observed over the years, E, and my take on it. I have a ton of air sign peeps in my family, including both of my parents and I was the only water. I love them to death, but we def. see the world through a different lense. smile
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I tend to partially interpret the world through an analytical prism, but then my artistic side tends to vie my attention, persuading me, sometimes, contrariwise.
Nevertheless, for me, the question pertains more so to honest communications between any to zodiac signs. In light of this, there is no insurmountable obstacle in my eyes. But I have a game plan.....
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Posted by ewashington7000


Nevertheless, for me, the question pertains more so to honest communications between any to zodiac signs. In light of this, there is no insurmountable obstacle in my eyes. But I have a game plan.....


No, these aren't insurmountable obstacles. Just the fact that each sign approaches, relates and understands things differently. If you can reconcile the differences to a level of satisfaction for both parties, then voila! So, what's the game plan? smile
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sammy if I can think of anything I'll let u know ;P
ewash sun signs r the least of ur worries with us (where's ur moon?) but if u'd like a story regarding a libra *coughs* who did EVERYTHING completely wrong I'll telll u one

hope he at least enjoyed his carrot Big Grin
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Posted by sdgaf
(which is sthg you seem to enjoy doing)



Where did ya get that idear? smile
j/k, E! lol
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oooh a poster is completely wrong I adore intelligent men who use logic
it's the ones with no emotional control who wear thier hearts on thier sleeves & trip themselves up cuz thier panties get in a bunch when we display disinterest
it's pathetic a scorp woman needs to hold thier man on a pedestal & stand beside him not above him
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Posted by ewashington7000
But you speak as though jealousy and control are the governing realities of a woman born underneath the influence of the zodiac Scorpio.




Excuse me?
I don't speak "as though" ... you do that, obviously.
I stated it unequivocally.
What's the matter .. you speak so much "as though" that you cannot understand directness?
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Posted by LovelyScorp
@ewashington7000
Hope you are having a great day!!!


I hope you do too! I have just come from a company size rehearsal for a historic brigade movement from Iraq to Kuwait. That is, officially, we are the last combat brigade in Iraq, finalizing this useless 7 year Iraqi war! 'Seems like Mr. Obama is being true to his words!
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Posted by sdgaf
you're not gonna make any point/win an argument with your *logic*..
a little emotional blackmail, on the other hand,
might be helpful from time to time..
(unless..
as lovely or aquilascorpius, she's an eagle smile)




Emotional blackmail? That sounds like I ought to be hiring an assassin or something else of the sort to deal with her....?!
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Posted by Sea Siren
Posted by sdgaf
(which is sthg you seem to enjoy doing)



Where did ya get that idear? smile
j/k, E! lol
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There is an individual who has responded to one of my post on here who has been married (happily) to a (male) Libra for 25 years. She is a Scorpio.
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Posted by P-Angel
Posted by ewashington7000
But you speak as though jealousy and control are the governing realities of a woman born underneath the influence of the zodiac Scorpio.




Excuse me?
I don't speak "as though" ... you do that, obviously.
I stated it unequivocally.
What's the matter .. you speak so much "as though" that you cannot understand directness?
click to expand


This calls for analysis. If you've 'unequivocally' stated such a comment, you've just made a categorical claim that isn't necessarily true. In fact, you've just made also a claim that isn't even actually true. Since when is it actually true that every woman born underneath the zodiac of Scorpio has two governing realities: namely, jealousy and control? I know of one who doesn't fall underneath such a categorical claim, falsifying your statement.
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u know of 2 now ewash
I've stated this numerous times here...I've Neva felt jealousy cuz I've Neva felt inadequacy *shrug* idc if it's an astrological breakdown it doesn't apply to me
my aqua moon explanation states "jealousy isn't noted with this placement" so uuummm ya
& dy just touched on what I mentioned earlier I have no desire for control...especially of my man whom I NEED to regard highly to repect!
but power is delicious...& what's more appealling than being part of a powerful couple to a scorp woman?
ssshhhh it's a secret... nothing smile
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Wow you hit it dead on......I could not agree more with this!!!!!
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"The problem is that, in reality, there is too many shady, hypocrite and pretentious people. We simply are very aware of those people and we don't want to get fooled. Many people say that Scorpio people are insecure because of being this way. They consider that to be a negative trait. Why negative? On the contrary, It would be very ignorant to think that every human being has only good intentions; NOT!!!!!Why pretend to be blind of that reality?Me, has a Scorpio cannot pretend to be so ignorant and just open up to people just because. No!!First, trust has to develop, therefore, I will never open up and be stubborn about it.
Hehehe, we Scorpios are dead serious about everything. No fooling around; you'll be burned =/

Wow you hit it dead on......I could not agree more with this!!!!!

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Posted by DyTryin

P-Angel: I thought the Libra's had made it official ... Scorps and Libras don't work.
They did.
But, he'll be weighing the pros & cons years from now, and with the same net result.



Unless there is some type of 'official' pact to which I am not privy, any talk of imcompatibility between Libras and Scorpios is equivalent to logical nonsense to me.
I've been involved with a Scorpio woman a few years back; and 'the' determining factors of that particular relationship has been the interactions between she and I, informed by our respective experiences. Ultimately, I've realized that human behaviors (e.g., relationships) stem largely from socializations. This also accounts for the differing viewpoints between any couple, even from the same society.
But the tendency to act one way or another is hardly attributable to any one factor, let alone some zodiac sign. I've yet to see these 'Libras' who have (allegedly) made anything official.
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Posted by DyTryin

P-Angel: I thought the Libra's had made it official ... Scorps and Libras don't work.
They did.
But, he'll be weighing the pros & cons years from now, and with the same net result.


:::spits out coffee::: LMAO!!
Did a VIRGO just accused someone of overanalyzing?! E, this is serious, indeed. I don't know if we can save you!

Winking
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I know, DY. I just thought the irony was amusing.
Why does nobunny get my sense of humor 'round here? Sad
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Posted by DyTryin

ewash: But the tendency to act one way or another is hardly attributable to any one factor, let alone some zodiac sign.
What was I thinking??
Examining Sun Sign tendencies on an Astrology Forum...
Hope no one else here makes that same mistake!!
Siren: Did a VIRGO just accused someone of overanalyzing?!
Yes... because unlike many Libras, Virgos will eventually make a decision. And, once we're done - we're done.


You were thinking about subscribing to another metaphysically bad theory, euphemizing it as doing 'astrology' on an "Astrology Forum.' Nevertheless, Astrology or not Astrology, bad metaphysics is still bad metaphysics.
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Posted by Beetleguese
Posted by Sea Siren
I know, DY. I just thought the irony was amusing.
Why does nobunny get my sense of humor 'round here? Sad



Awww, I get it, but I'm all kewl like datsmile
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I know - wouldn't expect any less from a Scorp. I guess I'm speaking "marine" to everyone else. BAH!
And I co-sign Dy's comments above!
E, you could be the poster-child for Libra even as you deny astrology. But, I understand you prefer proof you can see. It's the air sign way. Winking
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Posted by DyTryin

ewash: any talk of imcompatibility between Libras and Scorpios is equivalent to logical nonsense to me.
TRANSLATION: I don't like what I'm reading in response to MY QUESTION. Where are my warm fuzzies??


Actually, I am rather dispassionately detached about what I'm reading. One of my main concern is whether a contributor's conclusion follows logically (or statistically) from his or her premise. In light of this, you've seemed to argue for their supposed 'incompatibility.' Clearly, if you are familiar with the notion, to argue in such a manner IS equivalent to 'logical nonsense.'
Further, aside from the fact of whether a contributor's arguments logically (or statically) consistent, I have no care whatsoever for what anyone's says. Merely consider this thread, looking at some of my non-responses to comments that have been made for proof of this.
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