Now, Seriously for a Moment

This topic was created in the Scorpio forum by DyarStra?e on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 and has 48 replies.

My Scorp has been broody, and I think it's more than just postpartum stuff. I suspect that her current internal struggle is over whether she should return to work, or stay home and be a full-time Mom to The Twins.
I'm all in favor of her staying home for as long as she wants, and I've dropped hints to that effect. We can afford it. She can return to civil service without too much pain and suffering at a later date if she wants to. These are things I've kinda / sorta / off-hand brought up when I could wheedle them into a conversation.
Should I just bite the bullet, and lay it out on the table, or should I wait for her to raise the subject?
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What K said...
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"Are you sure about this?"
Yeah, almost 100% sure. I'm not a mind-reader, but I am a very attentive, nit-noid noticing, analytical Virgo...
When she's got something weighing on her, she acts a lot like me - not depressed, just preoccupied.
See, she's fiercely independent (really crappy first marriage, thank you Weasel!), and even though I would never ever think of her as a burden, or take advantage of her dependence on me, I'm pretty sure those are some of the things she's obsessing about.
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No joke. I have to walk a fine line with her. I definitely cannot come across as trying to MAKE her do anything. That's why I've tried to be subtle. But, she only has a few more weeks to make up her mind - for a seamless transition.
That's why I wondered if I shouldn't be more direct. Or, take the coward's route, and have her Mom talk with her about it - at least test the waters.
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fumingli_scorp: "Anyway, best to be straight forward on how you see/feel about things."
Well, sh1t! I thought for sure y'all would say, "Oh, just have her Mom ask her!" - that's a helluva lot easier for me...
OK. I'll give her until Sunday to bring it up herself. If she doesn't, I will.
Thanks, y'all!
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Dy,
I would wait for her to raise the subject. If you've dropped hints (and you've said before how well you guys read each other) I'm sure she knows your opinion.
I hope she stays home. For me, being a stay-at-home mom was one of the hardest things I ever did, but I do know that my daughter benefitted. I found it fun, exciting -- but also incredibly boring at times. And my control freak side did *not* appreciate being at the mercy of my little rugrat.
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MsPisces: "...postpartum depression comes in many forms, and it can in fact, affect the decision making process, including whether or not to return to work."
Yes, and that's been one of MY concerns - how much of this is Normal Debra vs. postpartum Debra. I'm pretty sure I've filtered out the latter, but of course, women think in ways Men don't, and Scorps feel in ways that Virgs won't, so I could be totally wrong - how nice!
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""I have to walk a fine line with her. ""

She's your *wife*. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells around her, or dance around any subject. Furthermore, it is quite unfortunate that you were compelled to seek the advice of absolute strangers regarding the most appropriate way to address YOUR other half.
May I suggest counseling?
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FYI, postpartum depression is infrequent. Or so I've read.
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ScorpSuperior: "May I suggest counseling?"
Certainly, and you wouldn't be the first, but this is not a desperate plea for help from a neurotic male to total strangers.
I've been on DXP for almost 2 years, and lots of these folks know me better than my coworkers - I've shared details here on this anonymous forum that they certainly don't know.
Given that situation, polling the DXP Scorps for opinions makes perfect sense to a Virgo. But your point is taken.
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Very well-stated, Miss.
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Eaglegirl: "I'm sure she knows your opinion."
She does. I'm not shy about stating the facts, as I see them. Yes, we read each other very well, but her ex-husband used to play mind games with her (mostly to cover his whore-hopping ways), and that complicates things to a degree.
"I would wait for her to raise the subject."
Thank you! I want this to be HER IDEA, with my firm support. The holidays are over, so I will compromise, and give her until Sunday.
"I hope she stays home."
Me, too! She's a natural at motherhood - and she's so happy in that role, it would be a shame to change it right now.
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""Regardless, infrequent doesn't mean there isn't a possibility that she is suffering from it.""

I know.
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fumingli_scorp,
I don't mean to pry, but how long were you and your Virgo married?
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"Should I just bite the bullet, and lay it out on the table, or should I wait for her to raise the subject"
Speak now or forever hold your peace. And please, don't have her mom speak for you.
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I do believe that in her heart, she wants to stay home with her babies.
But, she busted her butt to get her college degree, and lots of folks will wonder why she did that, and then didn't use it.
But, this is still The South, and lots of folks will applaud her for putting the babies ahead of her career.
Given all this stuff, I fully understand why she's preoccupied. (And, on a selfish note: I don't want her accusing me of pressuring her for a decision to relieve my own Virgic fretting over the pending deadline - the end of her maternity leave.) So, I will wait for a bit longer. Then, I'll bite the bullet.
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FS: "...be prepared she may test you that you really, truly, deeply want her to stay home..."
May be tested?
Uh, ain't no maybe about it. I can drop hints until the cows come home, but until the Moment Of Truth, it matters not what I say - she'll want to see how I feel...
Frickin' Scorps!
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Your Scorp is gonna figure out what she wants to do. Her brooding may be a manifestation of the conflict going inside her, or not.
If she brings it up, just say, "I'm down with whatever you want to do."
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FS: "...it's a love and hate relation!"
So... Do you Love to Hate Him, or Hate to Love Him??
OK. If I'm still alive when it's over, I'll yak at y'all about it.
Later, taters.
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"He should also express what he would like her to do, IMO. After all, they are married and that decision affects the both of them."
A certain Scorpio breed may suspect his intentions, and possibly be offended that he thinks he knows what she's thinking or feeling. He is a Virgo after all.
Since he's used to having his hands blown off, there's no harm in inquiring.
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Not sure I understood your comment either, MsP.
If you're suggesting he should express himself, I'm suggesting he should wait for her to give him a lead.
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And in only three short years, she can work part-time when the kids are in pre-school. That college degree won't go to waste!
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When you have no choice and in order to feed your kids you have to work...none of this foolish matters.
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The debate on a good mother vs. a good mother.
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DO whats best for you and your family and the rest will work itself out.
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I thought this was about the kids and not about who's better. Both types of moms have good intentions for their kids. They both display love for their kids just in different manners. The topic about which mom is stronger is better left unspoken.
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hola
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will there ever be a post that won't end in a fight?
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"i would try the other boards if you want a piece of normality."
Don't feel bad. I notice the other signs like to come here to vent. When they're done, they go back to their own board and act all nice.
Let's face it. The Scorp board is the dumping ground for everyone.
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Rox, I prefer a more graphic image.
A public toilet facility with no running water in a Third World country.
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Roxi: "sounds alot like france actually"
Wee wee!! Uh, I mean, oui oui!!
"i think the point dyr is making is that debs has a choice in the matter."
Yes, she has a choice, and I believe she's already made her choice, and I agree with F_S that what she'll want from her Virgo husband is validation of the decision she's already made.
fumingli_scorp (about Scorpio + Virgo attraction): "the conflict and the nature of attraction is unexplainable."
Yes, it is. Y'all know, I'm a very "wordy" guy, but even I can't really describe it - it has to be experienced. I can say that she affects me like no other woman I've ever known, but what does that mean? So many of our interactions are nonverbal - a look, a touch, the tone of voice or volume (more important than the actual words most of the time).
And yet. She can cut me in half with a stern look; and, I can crush her with sarcasm. We both realize this, and that's why we both work to keep the peace. No, I don't walk around on eggshells, but I have learned to curb my acid tongue. If y'all could talk to the folks who know us, you'd hear stuff like, "Debra is sweet as she can be... But her husband? Well, he can be a pistol ball!" And yet... some of these same people will say we're a cute couple - crazy!
:: Fingers crossed, hoping she'll bring this up by Sunday. ::
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The Eagle has landed. (or nested, or something like that!)
I jumped the gun, but yesterday afternoon my Scorp was sitting on the loveseat with a baby in each arm, so very peaceful (have I mentioned that The Twins are quieter with her than with me? Well, they are!) -- la mia bella donna! -- so, I took a chance...
HER: What are you smiling about?
ME: Y'all.
HER: (Shakes her head.)
ME: What??
HER: You're so silly!
ME: I am not! I just love my family, that's all.
HER: You better!
ME: I do! Y'all make me very happy... and you know, if you want to stay home with them for a while longer, that's OK by me...
HER: (Through drawn eyelashes.) Is that what YOU want me to do?
[Dammit! - I hate when she does that sh1t! Puts me on the spot!]
ME: Yes. [Thank God! For once, I didn't qualify it - not one HOWEVER, or BUT ON THE OTHER HAND...]
HER: (Brown eyes getting wet.) I knew it.
[Now, I'd rather be punched in the gut than see a woman cry, so I go into full-blown Virgo Emotional Panic Mode.]
ME: (On my knees, with a hand on each of her knees.) Baby, please! You know I want you to do what you want to do! [I'm not quite babbling, but close!]
HER: I know. [Not being dramatic, but she gives me this look, and my heart skips a beat.]
HER: They need me here.
ME: Yeah, but I want you to be happy, too.
HER: I AM happy!
ME: Staying home?
HER: Yes.
ME: OK then. Stay home as long as you want to.
And that was that.
Yeah, there's still a ton of details to be ironed-out, and a new budget plan to be mapped for the coming years, but that's no sweat for a Virgo.
Just don't cry!
~DyarStra?e
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After I had my son, I went thru extreme post partem depression. I think it mostly had to do with having to stay at home with an infant and having no clue what to do with him. I loved my son, but staying home just made me miserable. After a year, I got a part-time job and it made me feel like I was accomplishing somthing, rather than attending to everyone else's needs.
Thats just me though. My moons in Libra.
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emeraldgem: "But, this seems to be bothering you - maybe even more so than her.....?" & "I KNEW......KNEW with all the perception of my cancer moon that your stress over this was knowing you had already come to a decision on your own before she even said a word in either direction."
Well duh-frickedy-huh! I'm a Virgo, so of course I was bothered more by the pending deadline than my Scorp was. However, she may act like she's not thinking about the same damn things I am, but most of the time she is -- but, she'll say I'm the one who thinks too much, frets too much, etc. Aggravates the sh1t outta me sometimes! Anyway, I feel quite certain that she'd made her mind up to stay home at least two weeks ago -- I noted a change in the way she talked about work / coworkers -- which is why I started dropping hints about how I felt.
f_s: "It's just funny to see our differences or perhaps you were just being careful."
I'm a Virgo - we're always careful. Yes, Scorp & Virg have very different style s, and yet we get each other so well - and it's knowing that she knows how I am, and yet will still leave me dangling or guessing, that also irritates me.
Ah! This just hit me: We both are great problem solvers, but Scorpio wants to deliver the solution from a position of strength, whereas Virgo just wants to get the damn job done - no matter who gets the credit.
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P-Angel, in your deleted post you mentioned part-time work as an option. It's really difficult, if not impossible, to set up in civil service - the positions in each organization are set by policy, so that the fiscal year budget can take the cost of each position into account. BUT, Debra could work part time in the private sector. In fact, one of her college classmates was a work at home mom, who transcribed doctor's paper and oral records into electronic format. Debra seemed very interested in it at the time. And you know, it's quite possible that she's kept that in mind all these months, and simply hasn't said anything to me about it.
emeraldgem: "Same thing!" No way! Mine is much more concise and scholarly; plus, yours is about Scorps only, while mine is a comparison between Scorp & Virg. Nice try though.
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While I'm thinking about it: I type these mini-transcripts, and I try to make them vivid, but lots of the communication between Debra & I is nonverbal, so it's hard to convey exactly what's going on through mere words...
Like, when I dropped to my knees, and grasped hers. That's not an act of submission. She's a foot shorter than me, and it puts us on roughly the same eye level. I have a strong grip, and that physical contact is one of reassurance -- nonverbally, I'm saying, "No matter what, I'm gonna be there for you."
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fumingli_scorp,
You warned me about tests - well, I got one last night. We were in bed, and I was just about to doze off, when I got ambushed...
HER: Wayne, you asleep?
ME: Almost.
HER: Wake up. I want to ask you something.
[I start groaning - my default response.]
ME: Whaaaaattttt??? (I roll over on my back, so she's on my left.)
HER: I'm serious!
ME: OK! OK! What is it?
HER: (She's propped up on an elbow, looking at me.) I want to know - Are you sorry you married me?
ME: Huh? Hell no! Why the f0ck do you ask me sh1t like that?!
HER: Do you have to cuss?!
[With The Twins here, she's on this kick to clean up my language. (Good Luck with that!)]
ME: Yeah! Do you have to get me riled this late?
HER: Forget it then. Go to sleep. (She drops her head on the pillow.)
ME: [Oh, hell no!] Baby, I don't know what got this started, but we have to finish it. (Now I'm leaning over her.)
HER: It's over. Go to sleep. (By the tone of her voice, I know she's teetering on the edge of being really p1ssed - I assume with me.)
ME: Debra! Please now! I'm sorry. I just don't understand what you're asking me... There are two big reasons why I married you right down the hall. (The sleeping Twins.)
HER: What?
ME: What I mean is: I wouldn't have had those babies with you if I didn't want to be your husband. I love you. I love them. Y'all are all that matters to me.
HER: (Choked up a little.) But if you were with an older woman - one with grown kids - you'd be free to do things...
ME: Baby, I WAS free, and I chose to marry you, and I sure as sh1t don't regret it -- do you?
HER: No!
ME: OK, then what are we carrying on about??
HER: Nothing. You don't understand.
ME: Baby, OK. I'm just a MAN. Explain it to me. (I roll over on my left side, and slide my head on her pillow.)
HER: You think I'm crazy.
ME: NO, I don't! I know you have a lot on you, and you're run slap crazy all the time, but I don't think you're crazy. (I put my right arm around her, and hugged her tight.) [I almost added that she was driving me crazy, but I figured she wasn't in a joking mood right then.]
HER: But things have changed, and I don't want you to be disappointed in me.
ME: Debra, you amaze me! If you haven't realized by now how much I admire you, there's nothing else I can say about it.
Well, of course, we talked for a good while longer - and I hope we cleared the air. I didn't get as much sleep as I wanted to, but luckily I don't need as much sleep as my Sco
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:: Thanks DXP! For not warning me about the arbitrary cut off! ::
Well, of course, we talked for a good while longer - and I hope we cleared the air. I didn't get as much sleep as I wanted to, but luckily I don't need as much sleep as my Scorp.
So... Did I pass the test?? (Remember: It was a Pop Quiz - no chance to study!)
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irishlibra_,
While I appreciate your concern, I assure you I'm not neglecting my wife or babies. All of my LONG posts these days are written at work, since I rarely have lunch with my Scorp, who is at home out in the country...
If you look at my posting history, you'll see I do a lot of popping in & out when I am on DXP for longer than a few minutes each day (usually on the weekend).
"my ex husband was a 'virgo' who spent all of his time when he came home from work either watching tv or on the computer...relaxxxing."
Lots of guys veg out that way. I don't. Before The Twins, Debra & I had our afternoon walk together after work; then dinner together, and cuddle time downstairs before serious cuddle time upstairs. WAY more relaxing for me than anything on TV or the Internet. We've had to make some adjustments, but plopping down in front of the Boob Tube isn't a problem in our house.
"i would think that your new babies and wife require and deserve your love and attention rather than putting your energy into a lot of strangers on a computer...."
Are you sure you were married to a Virgo?
I can get sh1tloads of stuff done between daybreak and sundown, and still find time to chat with the folks on DXP who directly / indirectly helped me get married again. As for asking their opinions: This forum is great for a wide variety of views, and you should know that Virgs like to consider as many options as possible before making a decision.
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emeraldgem,
Not to regurgitate too much history, but I had a lot of reservations about rushing right into pregnancy when we hadn't been a couple for all that long. But, the biological clocks were running down. There were other factors as well, and I had made comments to her back when we first started dating about us traveling while we were still young enough to really enjoy it. That's kinda what shes referring to. Plus, she wanted more reassurance from me that her staying home was alright - that I wasn't just going along with her because she is a Mom again.
(Bear in mind: Though I have a good memory, my transcripts are not verbatim. I offer them in part to show how Scorp & Virg interact, which is reflection of how each interprets the other - or, misinterprets the other, as the case may be!)
Night, y'all!
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Dy: Yes, Scorp & Virg have very different style s, and yet we get each other so well - and it's knowing that she knows how I am, and yet will still leave me dangling or guessing, that also irritates me.
But I'm glad that you're smart enough to let her have her "process" -- we Scorps need that private, intuitive time to think....and when you let her know that you know, she'll love you even more....

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HER: But things have changed, and I don't want you to be disappointed in me.
ME: Debra, you amaze me! If you haven't realized by now how much I admire you, there's nothing else I can say about it.
Wow, Dy, now I know she's in love with you.
I'm going to share a Scorp secret -- we love and need change, but are afraid of it, too. Becoming a mom again is a lifechanging event, and it will change you and her, too. Your Deb is still "settling in" to the change on her many intuitive levels, and she wants to resettle the image of you in her mind as well. Old insecurities are coming up, and you, baby, can heal them with your words. She's not trying to rile you, just wants your reassurance.
The words of a husband are very powerful to a woman -- especially if she's just had his babies.
This sounds exactly like the kind of question I ask my boyfriend when I feel insecure too.
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fumingli_scorp: "However, what seems to be a pattern is that my ex virgo always has to say ?NO? or finds some disinterest first for anything I want to tell or propose. Until I am able to explain why I think the way I think, he has no patience listening to me. He keeps on interrupting and thinks he already knows what I have to say."
I hate to admit it, but I'm guilty of this as well. You really have to stand your ground, because your Virgo is of the Sarcastic variety. Me and my VirDad are of the Grump variety - we'll fuss & cuss, but it's rarely personal, and easier to ignore.
I think it's telling that you want to get back together with him. There really is a powerful - almost overwhelming! - attraction between Scorpio Women & Virgo Men. So many things we see and admire (and love!) in each other.
F_S, if you start something back with your VirGuy, make sure you're in the position of strength!! Odds are, he wants you as much (or more!) than you want him, so you should set some rules on your terms. We respect strong women. Yeah, we'll try to lead, and there are areas in the relationship where we should lead - but don't let him get the upper hand, or it will go badly for both of you.
It is a delicate balance - maybe all couples are this way over the long term - between two adults with Strong Centers. But, it does work. Debra & I don't have a perfect marriage, and I hope that by posting our experiences, others can see where we succeed, and where we fail -- and can learn by our examples...
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S-I-L: "DyarstraBe(?)- Why all the name changes?? Are you all ducking the law???"
Uh, it wouldn't be the first time... but in this case, no. I'm purging my old dyrstr8z stuff of all material that my ScorpWife would find too personal. My new persona is supposed to be more discreet (can't you tell?) - especially regarding her activities...
Where the heck have you been??
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S-I-L,
I am so very sorry to hear about your father-in-law, and your VirGuy's loss. He's lucky to have you at his side - thank God for the miracle that is Scorpio woman...
I am in awe of mine - even while I'm fussing at her!
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"even though I suspect it's just the scotch talking..."
NO, ma'am. That's almost 2 years of life-changing experience talking... so, accept it, with grace!
Take care, our dear S-I-L, and don't be a stranger to these waters...
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S-I-L: "I just try to hard to shield him from any additional worry and stress while he regains his equilibrium."
And we appreciate the way y'all cover our backs - makes us love you even more (if that's even possible!).
Roxi: "he is a lucky man indeed SIL."
Yep! And I feel quite certain that he knows it.
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fumingli_scorp,
You asked if there's a DyarStra?e in Bitburg, Germany... no, I don't think so. (The screen name is another play on words - you know how us Mercury types are!)
I was born in Deutschland while my VirDad was stationed at Bitburg AB, but we returned to the CONUS while I was a toddler. I've been back there several times, but as a tourist, not as a resident...
But damn! I sure do like my German beer!
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