Question Scorps and Non Scorps
This topic was created in the Scorpio forum by Karima27 on Tuesday, February 6, 2007 and has 130 replies.
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Okay...
My question is this. Scorps do you think sometimes we can come across as too judgmental or to blunt with our words?
Non Scorps-What do you think about the Scorps you run across? Are we too judgmental towards your actions or to blunt and cut throat with our words?
I had two people tell me (guys of course) that I feel as though I am better than them. That I don't know how to speak to people. I honestly do not belive that. One "friend" really thought he laid into me last night but I believe he feels intimidated and that really is not my problem. He is a sensitive, whiny ass Pisces. I love Pisces but god I hate that they are so damn sensitive.
He basically told me to change how I speak to him or we can't be friends. So of course. We are no longer friends. He hung up on me too much anyway. I really cannot figure out people...
My question is this. Scorps do you think sometimes we can come across as too judgmental or to blunt with our words?
Non Scorps-What do you think about the Scorps you run across? Are we too judgmental towards your actions or to blunt and cut throat with our words?
I had two people tell me (guys of course) that I feel as though I am better than them. That I don't know how to speak to people. I honestly do not belive that. One "friend" really thought he laid into me last night but I believe he feels intimidated and that really is not my problem. He is a sensitive, whiny ass Pisces. I love Pisces but god I hate that they are so damn sensitive.
He basically told me to change how I speak to him or we can't be friends. So of course. We are no longer friends. He hung up on me too much anyway. I really cannot figure out people...
"He is a sensitive, whiny ass Pisces."
That sayz it all.
That sayz it all.
LMAO! No Notso he is NOT gay. I mean usually when people tell me things about myself. I try to take a step back to re-evaluate. But sometimes people's issues are just that. Their damn issues.
I would not say that we are judgemental, at least I try not to be, I do except people for who/what they are it is just that I don't believe that people should throw stones if they don't live in a glass house.
"Blunt" Well that's what makes me who I am. People tell me I need to think before I talk but then I say "if I do that then I won't be me".
I think a scorpio's bluntness especially when happy makes for a lot of fun, but when mad, our bluntness can be detrimental.
"I had two people tell me (guys of course) that I feel as though I am better than them".
Thats your Pride that they can deal with.
"Blunt" Well that's what makes me who I am. People tell me I need to think before I talk but then I say "if I do that then I won't be me".
I think a scorpio's bluntness especially when happy makes for a lot of fun, but when mad, our bluntness can be detrimental.
"I had two people tell me (guys of course) that I feel as though I am better than them".
Thats your Pride that they can deal with.
Well, I guess I am a sensitive, whiney ass Cancer LOL BUT, from the experience I have with Scorpio guys, I would have to say yes. My ex was very judgemental and blunt all the time with me (and others). I spent most of my time with him crying into my pillow at night for fear that he would chew me up and spit me out if he knew I was upset by something he did. With Scorpio it's 'do as I say, not as I do', in other words, they can think nothing of acting a certain way but, if you call them out on it, they will not tolerate it and don't think they did anything wrong. The most recent example I have of this happened the other night with the Scorpio I am kind of having a 'thing' with. He showed up to where I was with my friends and basically stood on the other side of the room pretending not to see me. When he did finally acknowledge that I was there, he waved. The next minute, I see him walking out the door! So....I was of course PISSED and I called him on the phone and let him know how upset I was at his rude behavior. He then proceeded to give me reasons as to why he did what he did and that I was taking it too personal. I told him that he would not have liked it if I had done that to him (and I know for a fact he wouldn't have) and he said to me that I must have him mistaken for someone else. OUCH! The next day we worked it all out HOWEVER, he continued to justify what he did. Then in the very next breath, he told me that he has no room in his life for rude people and just throws them away. It's a one way street with Scorpio.
WOW...moonmaiden I hate to say it but Scorps hate to compromise. At least I do. I am so doggone stubborn. We are a "do as I say, not as I do" set. It is very one way with us sometimes...I am trying to work on that. But only for the right person. Some people get downright ridiculous with some of their requests though.
Scorpionlady! You hit the nail on the head! I told him "If I need to walk on eggshells when I am around you then we definitely do not need to talk"! To hell with that. Holding my tongue might give me a headache. Either develop a thicker skin or get the hell over it. I mean-Really If one of my good friends told me I have hurt them in any way or made them feel a certain way. Then I try to rectify the situation almost immediately.
Notso-The two men that told me. One is my ex-boyfriend whom I could care less what he thinks. He still calls me and this guy that told me this time.We just met in...November. I mean he's okay but I think there are some deeper issues there. He got mad because I called him retarded. But it was in jest. Not in a mocking manner.
I don't know guys. It's hard being a Scorp sometimes. People do not understand us. The ones that do love us. The others...sadly will never get it.
Scorpionlady! You hit the nail on the head! I told him "If I need to walk on eggshells when I am around you then we definitely do not need to talk"! To hell with that. Holding my tongue might give me a headache. Either develop a thicker skin or get the hell over it. I mean-Really If one of my good friends told me I have hurt them in any way or made them feel a certain way. Then I try to rectify the situation almost immediately.
Notso-The two men that told me. One is my ex-boyfriend whom I could care less what he thinks. He still calls me and this guy that told me this time.We just met in...November. I mean he's okay but I think there are some deeper issues there. He got mad because I called him retarded. But it was in jest. Not in a mocking manner.
I don't know guys. It's hard being a Scorp sometimes. People do not understand us. The ones that do love us. The others...sadly will never get it.
I have a girlfriend who is a judgmental Scorpio. We come from different sides of the tracks so she behaves one way and I another and sometimes her judgmental side shows. Me on the other hand. Not so judgmental. I could really care less what another person does. I am a friend first. Always! I am not God...I am here on this earth to support and honor. Not Judge...
Well its no secret that I find all scorps to be evil. I would've guessed they were a fire sign rather than water.
They have to be handled with care from an arms distance...
"Well its no secret that I find all scorps to be evil."
Evil=blunt+judgmental?
Evil=blunt+judgmental?
maybe...
I had a similar situation with a scorp as Moommaiden68. The one I knew was doing things behind my back and lying about it. When I found out, she was lying to me I dumped one of her "little secrets" out into the ear of the appropriate company.(I knew it would get back to her). She got so pissed at me we haven't spoken since, but I called her on the carpet for her own underhanded actions and she never replied....just ducked out. Yeah, and she kept the "Miss Innocent" act up too. Made me out to be the bad guy. For real though, I think this is a very very immature female scorp, even though she's in her 40's. I have had many friends, in all signs, and this scorp is the only one I know who would rather loose a good friend than apologize. (Her loss). I luv most scorps tho!
Sorry *Moommaiden=Moonmaiden
Just for the record this particular scorp also had a habit of always saying how much the world was against her, and how she could never "keep" anybody in her life..now I know why.
She does sound a bit immature, JWalker.
I don't think I've had anyone tell me I'm judgemental. (At least not to my face) I am one of those people that everyone comes to with problems because:
1. I don't judge
2. I don't offer unwanted opinions or advice
3. I am very open minded
4. I don't gossip
My grandmother was a person that EVERBODY went to when they had a problem and she was the best shoulder to cry on. I have always tried to be like her. My daughter is a scorp and she is the same way. It's a quality you have to work on at times because I hate playing therapist, but I feel if someone trusts me with secrets then I should respect that.
I don't think I've had anyone tell me I'm judgemental. (At least not to my face) I am one of those people that everyone comes to with problems because:
1. I don't judge
2. I don't offer unwanted opinions or advice
3. I am very open minded
4. I don't gossip
My grandmother was a person that EVERBODY went to when they had a problem and she was the best shoulder to cry on. I have always tried to be like her. My daughter is a scorp and she is the same way. It's a quality you have to work on at times because I hate playing therapist, but I feel if someone trusts me with secrets then I should respect that.
If we have a world population of 6.5 billion people, then roughly each sign would have 540 million natives. Of course U cant expect to have as many saints among scorpios...Hence variety in experience. I hope the distribution doesnt get horribly skewed towards the bad ones though.
"He is a sensitive, whiny ass Pisces."
"That sayz it all."
i've seen almost every sign be this way, at some point.
"That sayz it all."
i've seen almost every sign be this way, at some point.
I know a 37 year old virgo who is a whiny ass. You should see the temper tantrums when he doesn't get his way!
""He is a sensitive, whiny ass Pisces."
"That sayz it all."
i've seen almost every sign be this way, at some point. "
I wanted to say that comment showed how judgemental a scorpio can get, is Karima was actually serious.
"That sayz it all."
i've seen almost every sign be this way, at some point. "
I wanted to say that comment showed how judgemental a scorpio can get, is Karima was actually serious.
"naturally...nobody likes that their sign is put down(in their eyes that is).. "
I agree...And itz because U identify urself with Ur sign - at least here on DXP.
I agree...And itz because U identify urself with Ur sign - at least here on DXP.
""He is a sensitive, whiny ass Pisces."
"That sayz it all."
i've seen almost every sign be this way, at some point. "
I wanted to say that comment showed how judgemental a scorpio can get, is Karima was actually serious.
^^^^
That's being judgmental to you?! You must be kidding. I made an observation I don't believe all Pisces to be whiny but sensitive! Hell Yes! They will tell you that themselves!
"That sayz it all."
i've seen almost every sign be this way, at some point. "
I wanted to say that comment showed how judgemental a scorpio can get, is Karima was actually serious.
^^^^
That's being judgmental to you?! You must be kidding. I made an observation I don't believe all Pisces to be whiny but sensitive! Hell Yes! They will tell you that themselves!
I wasn't really putting Pisces down but the sensitivity issue is trying at times and I did base him being sensitive on his zodiac sign. Maybe it's just him. Hey I can admit if I am wrong.
"That's being judgmental to you?! You must be kidding."
And now you criticize his definition of judgmental...
I hope you did that on purpose...
And now you criticize his definition of judgmental...
I hope you did that on purpose...
LOL, 'just a lil lost in translation for a moment' ...'i getcha now Gaurav..! 
"Non Scorps-What do you think about the Scorps you run across? Are we too judgmental towards your actions or to blunt and cut throat with our words?"
The only thing that I would say that needs adjusting in this particular area is when it comes to "first impressions". For the most part, the Scorpio's I know aren't overly critical or judgemental .. on the contrary, they seem to be very tolerant of others and try to be diplomatic .. they seem to be very aware of their words and whether they will hurt another or not. However, first impressions aren't always the right ones.
Sometimes, when you first meet someone, people can be awkward because they feel umcorfortable with new people .. this is where the Scorp's I know fail a tad. Their words can be harsh, they do judge .. only to find out later that this new person wasn't what they thought at all and then feel bad because they didn't allow for this whole, "first impression" flaw.
Other than that .. they don't seem harsh or too blunt for this whiny ass Pisces.
The only thing that I would say that needs adjusting in this particular area is when it comes to "first impressions". For the most part, the Scorpio's I know aren't overly critical or judgemental .. on the contrary, they seem to be very tolerant of others and try to be diplomatic .. they seem to be very aware of their words and whether they will hurt another or not. However, first impressions aren't always the right ones.
Sometimes, when you first meet someone, people can be awkward because they feel umcorfortable with new people .. this is where the Scorp's I know fail a tad. Their words can be harsh, they do judge .. only to find out later that this new person wasn't what they thought at all and then feel bad because they didn't allow for this whole, "first impression" flaw.
Other than that .. they don't seem harsh or too blunt for this whiny ass Pisces.
What do scorps do if the "first impression" is second hand information. Like say, someone hands them some line of crap about a third party (good or bad). Are scorps inclined to make a decision on that info about someone they have never even met? Of course this assumes that the scorp trusts the person giving them the info. Or would they be more inclined to hold off on judgement until they see for themselves?
Still, I keep in mind that there are 3 sides to every story: his, hers, and the truth.
AMEN to that!
AMEN to that!
"Are scorps inclined to make a decision on that info about someone they have never even met?"
Not from what I've noticed with the Scorp's in my life (father, brother, son). In fact, the opposite .. of course, everyone is different, but, 3 out of 3 in my life are the same in this aspect, so I'd tend to believe that it's present in the majority.
They appear to be very discerning, probably more so than other's I know .. it's pretty uncanny, actually, the way they can "see" beyond what is oblivious to most people and get straight to the heart of the matter .. this comes even with their close friends, they don't just rely on their friends judgements because their friends aren't as "in tune" as they are ..
Not from what I've noticed with the Scorp's in my life (father, brother, son). In fact, the opposite .. of course, everyone is different, but, 3 out of 3 in my life are the same in this aspect, so I'd tend to believe that it's present in the majority.
They appear to be very discerning, probably more so than other's I know .. it's pretty uncanny, actually, the way they can "see" beyond what is oblivious to most people and get straight to the heart of the matter .. this comes even with their close friends, they don't just rely on their friends judgements because their friends aren't as "in tune" as they are ..
the scorps i've known have MASSIVE egos, are somewhat self-involved, aren't super supportive of friends ("oh you won't be able to do it, i guarantee it"... stuff like that), somewhat intolerant and narrow minded and harbor a belief that anything you do, they can do better.
judgemental? everyone is judgemental. if you're saying you're not, then you're lying. i don't think the scorps are more judgemental off the bat than anyone else though.
the thing that bothers me the most with the ones i've known is this: scorps are honest, but realism in their honesty is not always accurate. perception is subjective and scorps seem to think that their perception is objective and it bothers me that they don't see that.
judgemental? everyone is judgemental. if you're saying you're not, then you're lying. i don't think the scorps are more judgemental off the bat than anyone else though.
the thing that bothers me the most with the ones i've known is this: scorps are honest, but realism in their honesty is not always accurate. perception is subjective and scorps seem to think that their perception is objective and it bothers me that they don't see that.
P-Angel
"first impression"
Yes I live by first impressions but it has yet to fail me. I still see the same women that I met over a year ago, and I have not gotten any closer to her than when I met her.
WhY? I just don't see it nor do I feel it, I don't want to be her friend like that there is something about her that I am not comfortable with.
When I see her I speak and make small talk but that is it. I don't want her has a friend. My guard is up and she cannot get in.
On the flip side when I was at the Super Bowl Party I was there with some people I didn't know and I mingled and laughed and just had every body laughing and enjoying themselves.
I would call it just being very cautious....must be my (Cap Rising Sun)
"first impression"
Yes I live by first impressions but it has yet to fail me. I still see the same women that I met over a year ago, and I have not gotten any closer to her than when I met her.
WhY? I just don't see it nor do I feel it, I don't want to be her friend like that there is something about her that I am not comfortable with.
When I see her I speak and make small talk but that is it. I don't want her has a friend. My guard is up and she cannot get in.
On the flip side when I was at the Super Bowl Party I was there with some people I didn't know and I mingled and laughed and just had every body laughing and enjoying themselves.
I would call it just being very cautious....must be my (Cap Rising Sun)
We are very sure of ourselves - not too good... and yes we are blunt... We know what we want and don't want and that comes accross as intimidating, especially to guys that are not sure of themselves. I get this a lot. Ofcourse after they guy gets to know me, they say, when I first saw you I never knew you would be soo cool. I guess it is our confidence that we can't help but show...
Pisces waaaaayyyyy tooo sensitive for me too whiney YES!!! Can't do it!!! Now, Taurus or Libra, especially Libra (because they are so crazy and it is always a challenge)
Pisces waaaaayyyyy tooo sensitive for me too whiney YES!!! Can't do it!!! Now, Taurus or Libra, especially Libra (because they are so crazy and it is always a challenge)
Even Virgo guys are OK, but Libras keep finding me and I can't resist them.
Oh, mind you some of my best friends are Pisces girls. The boys, I can't be in a relationship with at all though.
"They appear to be very discerning, probably more so than other's I know .. it's pretty uncanny, actually, the way they can "see" beyond what is oblivious to most people and get straight to the heart of the matter .. this comes even with their close friends, they don't just rely on their friends judgements because their friends aren't as "in tune" as they are .. "
I have noticed this too, and found that when I concentrate on what they are doing (like in a social scene) I see that they are observing every little detail about people. The shoes, type of jeans, hair style , eye movement, body language, etc.. and they do it smoothly, yet openly. Kind of like a sponge soaking up all the info they can. I got a leaf stuck in my sandle once, and a scorp I knew gently bent over and took the leaf out, which I thought was a "nice" gesture (which it was), but then she started talking about how slim my feet were, and the bone structure etc...observed everything about my FOOT!
I have noticed this too, and found that when I concentrate on what they are doing (like in a social scene) I see that they are observing every little detail about people. The shoes, type of jeans, hair style , eye movement, body language, etc.. and they do it smoothly, yet openly. Kind of like a sponge soaking up all the info they can. I got a leaf stuck in my sandle once, and a scorp I knew gently bent over and took the leaf out, which I thought was a "nice" gesture (which it was), but then she started talking about how slim my feet were, and the bone structure etc...observed everything about my FOOT!
I'm not saying that if it were me I wouldn't have noticed the foot, but it probably wouldn't have mattered much to me. I think by observing things as simple as that they can tell alot about your grooming habits and other details of your inner personality. It's like seeing someone with really dirty fingernails and coming to the conclusion they need to wash more...except for the scorp is goes into a deeper meaning than just that. They may go into deducing wether he may be a mechanic or gardener or just dirty. Then maybe from there they might just say..."are you a mechanic?" and wala you are going to say what your occupation is. (Info obtained). Subtle digging.
Hmmm...Really nice observations Jwalker, if it actually happens that way.
Whew!
When I was younger, a friend..a good friend who I really loved..told me I was the most arrogant person he ever knew...
Looking back, I see the truth in his statement...
I can honestly say that I have changed...having children was what did it...and showed me that I had a real problem with stubborness, pride, ego, needing to be in control etc. etc. all the negative problems Scorps have...
The harshness that some Scorps show is a massive defense mechanism. The fact is, we are meant to be *the* most loving sign in the Zodiac.
My ability to bend to another, to see them, and *not* try to change them with harsh words (though I have my moments, as has been seen occasionally on dxp!) but simply to accept them for where they are at...knowing the *love* is really the only power than anyone has...
And I am so happy and relaxed in my femininity now, whereas I was scared before...
But I must say it took a few death/rebirth scenarios in my life before this "snake" was able to shed many layers of the false self, to come to the true heart of my Scorpioness!
When I was younger, a friend..a good friend who I really loved..told me I was the most arrogant person he ever knew...
Looking back, I see the truth in his statement...
I can honestly say that I have changed...having children was what did it...and showed me that I had a real problem with stubborness, pride, ego, needing to be in control etc. etc. all the negative problems Scorps have...
The harshness that some Scorps show is a massive defense mechanism. The fact is, we are meant to be *the* most loving sign in the Zodiac.
My ability to bend to another, to see them, and *not* try to change them with harsh words (though I have my moments, as has been seen occasionally on dxp!) but simply to accept them for where they are at...knowing the *love* is really the only power than anyone has...
And I am so happy and relaxed in my femininity now, whereas I was scared before...
But I must say it took a few death/rebirth scenarios in my life before this "snake" was able to shed many layers of the false self, to come to the true heart of my Scorpioness!
I'm giving the perspective of a non scorp here, who has known several well, loves scorps, and who's most serious relationship has been with a scorp.
Yes, you can be a rather judgemental and insensitive at times, however I have noticed that most scorps usually aren't like this to be hurtful, or don't mean to be. A lot of times it is their way of showing someone that they are doing something wrong, or looking at something the wrong way. It is more a corrective action for the other persons bennifit in their mind.
However, sometimes it is a one way street. I have known some to have pretty demanding expectaions of others, yet do not follow those same rules themselves. I don't think all scorpios are like this, but I don't like this trait at all in those scorps who do. As mentioned above I have heard from a scorpio girlfriend the very words "do as I say, not as I do", my response was "do as you say I and I will give your words credit". She was PISSED at first, but I don't think she realised until I said that how she was being unfair in her expectations of me and she needed to hear that I wasn't going to tolerate one-sidedness.
Like someone else mentioned, the bluntness is adorable when a scorp is in good spirits, but can be very ugly when angered. Sometimes the original point is lost in the sheer stubbornnes, which can be a bad thing.
the only time I think it gets out of hand with a Scorpio is when someone is judgemental and stubborn enough to think/say....If they don't understand it is their problem not mine. which someone said earlier. Luckily, most scorpios aren't that close minded, to assume you have all of the answers, or are rightous enough to be the end all be all say in anything is simply rediculous, but I digress.
It would do a lot of good for both the scorpio and the people they are with to look past that tough outer exoskeleton and realize that behind that toughness, they are extremely sensitive and caring. All that mush inside has to be protected by something
It can be utalized as a defense mechanism, but I think it comes down to them "correcting" people, showing them how they want to be treated.
Yes, you can be a rather judgemental and insensitive at times, however I have noticed that most scorps usually aren't like this to be hurtful, or don't mean to be. A lot of times it is their way of showing someone that they are doing something wrong, or looking at something the wrong way. It is more a corrective action for the other persons bennifit in their mind.
However, sometimes it is a one way street. I have known some to have pretty demanding expectaions of others, yet do not follow those same rules themselves. I don't think all scorpios are like this, but I don't like this trait at all in those scorps who do. As mentioned above I have heard from a scorpio girlfriend the very words "do as I say, not as I do", my response was "do as you say I and I will give your words credit". She was PISSED at first, but I don't think she realised until I said that how she was being unfair in her expectations of me and she needed to hear that I wasn't going to tolerate one-sidedness.
Like someone else mentioned, the bluntness is adorable when a scorp is in good spirits, but can be very ugly when angered. Sometimes the original point is lost in the sheer stubbornnes, which can be a bad thing.
the only time I think it gets out of hand with a Scorpio is when someone is judgemental and stubborn enough to think/say....If they don't understand it is their problem not mine. which someone said earlier. Luckily, most scorpios aren't that close minded, to assume you have all of the answers, or are rightous enough to be the end all be all say in anything is simply rediculous, but I digress.
It would do a lot of good for both the scorpio and the people they are with to look past that tough outer exoskeleton and realize that behind that toughness, they are extremely sensitive and caring. All that mush inside has to be protected by something
It can be utalized as a defense mechanism, but I think it comes down to them "correcting" people, showing them how they want to be treated." had/ still have a lot of scorp friends and love interests too."
LOL...Exactly how many love interests do U have at the momnent ?
LOL...Exactly how many love interests do U have at the momnent ?
"guru... minus one than what every you have "
haa haa...I never thought there can be any comparison
"lol you fire signs are wanderers in love "
All falacy...And perhaps due to flighty Sags
haa haa...I never thought there can be any comparison
"lol you fire signs are wanderers in love "
All falacy...And perhaps due to flighty Sags
"oh no... I meant the last time i knew there was a scorp.. (months ago)... since then i have no idea, just now... anyone ?"
Cap has decided to punish all the men for what that Scorp did to her I guess.
Cap has decided to punish all the men for what that Scorp did to her I guess.
Why are Sagis considered slags of the zodiac?
"Also i feel he is not the kind of person who would be with me in my bad times"
Hmmm...I guess some scorpios are indeed not the best of buddies in bad times.
Hmmm...I guess some scorpios are indeed not the best of buddies in bad times.
LOL..It wasn't meant in an offensive manner..I just heard a few people say Sagis are slags (male & female) was just wondering why that is..Maybe the roaming eye thing they have..dunno..I have yet to come across promiscuous members from this sign..
So your no sticking with the Virguy? didn't you have two of them and you were deciding between the two?
So your no sticking with the Virguy? didn't you have two of them and you were deciding between the two?
now*
Yeah some Scorps are really horrid creatures..
Yeah some Scorps are really horrid creatures..
"just heard a few people say Sagis are slags (male & female)"
They just have a casual approach towards sex I guess.
They just have a casual approach towards sex I guess.
Yeah I guess..who cares...was just curious..
We all know who the real slags are eh G
We all know who the real slags are eh G
"We all know who the real slags are eh G"
If U wanted to say Aries - No we are machines.
My experience says Aqua though.
If U wanted to say Aries - No we are machines.
My experience says Aqua though.
" think so too.Its very important to me to know that the person would care even when i am not doing good"
Thatz some socialist criteria which most of the people look for. But guess Scorpioz are more Capitalistic in nature - Survive only with the fittest.
Thatz some socialist criteria which most of the people look for. But guess Scorpioz are more Capitalistic in nature - Survive only with the fittest.
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@RainingPeanuts
Joined: Aug 19, 2006 · Topics: 31 · Posts: 800
Fellow Aquas, this topic is for you. I'm interested in finding out what type of jobs my fellow Aquas are interested in.
@Wings
Joined: Dec 29, 2006 · Topics: 22 · Posts: 443
Do you believe that people do things out of the kindness of their heart or for self-interest. For example, if you we
@187
Joined: Aug 30, 2006 · Topics: 38 · Posts: 184
greetings earthlingz (RC's gonna have my ass for stealin' her line)....been wonderin' all, or at least MOST of the zodia
@VIRGOEXALTED
Joined: Jul 11, 2006 · Topics: 123 · Posts: 3318