Scorpio Guns or Pills or Something Deeper?

This topic was created in the Scorpio forum by MrFirebird on Tuesday, February 19, 2013 and has 34 replies.
Something for Scorpios and those who have been involved with Scorpios and have
lost their marbles. Winking
Seriously, though, this is worth a read for everyone or someone they know who may be
suffering PTSD, Depression and other psychologically challenging conditions.
http://ssristories.com/
Guns or anti-depressant pills, which caused the violence?
1) the individual was suffering depression prior to being prescribed the medication.
2) the individual's dependency on the drug is a state of weakness induced by the drug.
3) the individual may have already owned the gun prior to being prescribed the Rx.
4) Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
5) People kill people for a reason. Things don't just happen, they are caused.
It is necessary to find out that cause, and get to the heart of the matter.
6) What is unfortunate is that the young, possessed by the spirit of invincibility, which
is a false security and a deception, are not so inclined to get to the bottom of such matters.
7) Most people are driven to commit crimes. Sometimes by force, sometimes due hardships, sometimes
other influencing factors - Usually a suicide or violent crime occurs when the child or adult has
met their wit's end.
Solution: I believe if people try to understand other people a bit better than they do, they might
save a life of such an individual or the lives of their friends, family, and associates.
People who suffer from mental/emotional issues should not be teased or insulted as do thus, can
wreak havoc.
Those are just some random thoughts. I could go on, but I will stop here.
What say you concerning the article?
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None of the above.
People kill because of ONLY 2 reasons;
1. They want too, the reasons r merely details, and why bother with the details when u already hv the reason?
2. Too protect, the reasons r merely details, and why bother with the details when u already hv the reason?
More confusion?
Good.
I am usually correct.
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"Guns or anti-depressant pills, which caused the violence?"

The person who chooses to inflict violence. Pharmaceuticals are covered with their 57+ disclaimers on tv and on paper. Sad
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Posted by Spectre
None of the above.
People kill because of ONLY 2 reasons;
1. They want too, the reasons r merely details, and why bother with the details when u already hv the reason?
2. Too protect, the reasons r merely details, and why bother with the details when u already hv the reason?
More confusion?
Good.
I am usually correct.



Not this time.
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Posted by LetltB
"Guns or anti-depressant pills, which caused the violence?"

The person who chooses to inflict violence. Pharmaceuticals are covered with their 57+ disclaimers on tv and on paper. Sad



But why do they "choose" to inflict violence? That's the question I am raising.
I know that there are a squillion reasons. But there IS a common denominator.
I am taking a look at the violence and tracing the steps backwards, from the
actual crime, to the perpetrator, to observe the causes.
You've heard the saying "the straw that broke the camel's back".
That is Stress.
Stress led many of those people to resort to the pharmaceuticals industries
to "band-aid" their mental ills.

Legal Aspect:
Those products with all those disclaimers are really nothing more than a far more potent drug
than alcohol. But under the guise of "professional healthcare", the pills are even distributed
to minors...., Legally!
It IS quite amazing that in spite of the fact that on the one hand, the drug eases the pain in the
afflicted, on the other hand, it influences the patient who is at risk of falling into addiction.
The reality is that many of these drugs are simply mind altering drugs.
BIG money is a "fringe benefit" for some, and prime motivator for others.
People making money off of someone else's ills. Not unlike the mainstream news media
(word-of-mouth/newspaper/radio/tv/internet)... which... constantly report on negative conditions and
situations day after day, year after year.
While you or I or others may not listen to the media, the poison is still being injected into society.
Sooner or later someone will be talking about x bad news at work, at home, or wherever they may be.
Sooner or later, bad news hits home. Pharma, Medicine, Law, News Media, Bankers stand to benefit
from the exploitation of minds. - Recall that those born 100+ years ago, didn't always have a steady diet of
bad news that we have today on top of the many other stressors in life.
There is something much deeper at work, here.

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^Continued
Truth, though, we cannot live under a rock and hide from those things. BUT we can make some adjustments
to guard against those stresses.
Again, I do NOT believe for one minute that every last act of violence is restricted to someone making
a choice one fine day to carry out violent acts. I am convinced that people are also pushed to resorting
to violence.
You've heard the saying "running out of options" and "all options were on the table" - Goose and gander goodness considerations and walking a mile in someone else's shoes.
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^ with what Dr. Levine says about these drugs, I was reminded of cigarettes.
In the 1990s Big Tobacco was enemy #1. It used to be you'd see cigarette ads
in magazines and tv and on the billboards. Now... we see these drugs being
pushed. I think it's time for a major campaign against these drugs.
Especially the drugs being distributed to minors... Ritalin for example..
Young people and new parents need to appreciate the devastating consequences
for child neglect. Putting a child on a mind altering drug so the parent can
function is a sign of a dysfunction in the parent. I am concerned about
your future, kids.
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There r so many possibilities on WHY.
Why does a lion kill?
Why does a Shark kill?
Why does a Serial Killer kill?
Why does a Dictator kill?
Why does anything kill anything?
Merely DETAILS..
Thus my above posting, WHY look into the details, WHEN the results and reasons are there.
Work around the reasons and results.
Simplify it.
The problems r always simple.
So is the solution.
The more complex u make it the more complex the solution will be.
Once it is complex, the probability of it's success is also low.
U think 2 much grasshopper..
More Confusion?
Not this time huh?
I am usually irritatingly correct !


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Posted by Ellybean
^even as often as they are overused and over prescribed and as harmful as they can be to a lot of people, I still think a lot of the prescribed drugs are healthy. And with proper care I'd even go as far to say they are more helpful than they are harmful for what they do for people.
Proper care I being the key words. Drugs are drugs. They don't force themselves into people's bodies. The doctors that over prescribe for sake of laziness or lack of care or just want to make money off companies and punching quickest time tickets for time spent with patients make those drugs unhealthy. Patients also need to have advocacy for their own health too, puts for better care, granted that is near impossible with some mental illnesses since the nature of the illness itself makes it near impossible for you to be accountable if a marker of your illness is to not care about your health at all.



You've just said a mouthful. One of the Columbine shooters was on Luvox and as a result, Luvox was all but removed from the market. Luvox actually works quite well for OCD, but won't do a damned thing against someone that deeply disturbed. Drugs won't do a damned thing for a psychopath with a God complex.
The key issue here is that SSRIs and SNRIs are definitely overprescribed by any type of doctor..I've heard of dentists, gynecologists and not to mention family doctors handing out these drugs. They shouldn't be so easily available. Zoloft might be in the same class as Prozac, but that doesn't mean they're interchangeable.
The other key issue, and I'll say this again: I'm a military trained expert shot. There is simply no civilian need for assault rifles nor for high capacity magazines. There isn't anything wrong with instantaneous background checks prior to their purchase nor a mandatory safety course before purchasing any weapon.

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"The other key issue, and I'll say this again: I'm a military trained expert shot. There is simply no civilian need for assault rifles nor for high capacity magazines. There isn't anything wrong with instantaneous background checks prior to their purchase nor a mandatory safety course before purchasing any weapon."
It doesn't matter if you are military trained expert shot. What matters is if you have the weapon to defend yourself, your family, your property, your land, from all enemies foreign and domestic. That is the Constitutional RIGHT of the American people. What you are suggesting is treasonous against that Right and thus against that Constitution and.....
that nation of people for which that Constitution was written for. Plain and simple. By denying access to the weapons
that balance the playing field, you are encouraging governmental dominance and therefore, Tyranny.
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http://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/20/the-aurora-colorado-tragedy-another-senseless-shooting-another-psychotropic-drug/
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^ I surely do foresee the day wherein the American people are disarmed. And many herded like cattle to the slaughter.
Complacent attitudes and minds controlled by academia and mass media will surely see to that.
Only a simpleton would choose to not be bothered by the details. For without the details, there is nothing.
Such simple minds who cannot be bothered are part of the problem and for this, they are confused and cannot
see why they perish. Alas, for the love of simplicity, the snake feeds upon itself.
Everyone is free to join in that foolishness, but the consequences are certain and in that day and hour, death
of the soul and the fire thereafter shall surely consume them in an hour they think not.
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Indeed, death is certain. That's a truth.
To fear it, is wasteful. To prepare for it, is wise.
Spectre, how do you prepare for death? Tell the truth, ONLY if you know it.
Indeed, it is a very SIMPLE Truth which you ought to already know.
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Posted by MrFirebird

It doesn't matter if you are military trained expert shot. What matters is if you have the weapon to defend yourself, your family, your property, your land, from all enemies foreign and domestic. That is the Constitutional RIGHT of the American people. What you are suggesting is treasonous against that Right and thus against that Constitution and.....
that nation of people for which that Constitution was written for. Plain and simple. By denying access to the weapons
that balance the playing field, you are encouraging governmental dominance and therefore, Tyranny.



Yes, I'm afraid my training does matter, and it matters a lot. Without training, you speak from a position of ignorance and it sounds like you're parroting NRA talking points rather than thinking rationally. Read the Federalist Papers for yourself. The Founding Fathers didn't intend for a personal arsenal, rather a well regulated militia by the state and a military at the federal level. This means regulation, and yes, intervention by the government, not tyranny.
Now, why does it matter that I'm a military trained expert shot? Let me ask you these question: Can you hit what you're aiming at with an automatic rifle, even semi automatic rifle? The answer is simply no. Fully automatic weapons with a large capacity magazine are not meant for self defense. They're meant for psychological warfare or terrorism. Even an AR-15/M-16 A2 or an Ak-74/47 popping off 3 round bursts make it impossible to hit what you are aiming at. Even someone weighing 250+ is spraying at the sky after the second round goes off. In other words, in the hands of an untrained and overly confident user, these type of weapons are pure danger for the user and those around them. No, ifs, ands or buts.
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Details
The point of any homicide investigation is to collect and examine all possible evidence, and witness(s) in order to
to build a solid case for purposes of prosecution and conviction of the TRUE suspect in a court of law by a jury
of their peers (US).
Throughout the process of evidence collection, all the way through to closing arguments, "DETAILS" is everything
for both the prosecutor and the defendant.
To think otherwise, not only IS Confusion but promotes Confusion!
When prescribed psychiatric drugs are present in the system of a killer, the exact product, and the indications, thereof needs to be identified.
IF a drug is known to have potentially serious side effects such as homicidal tendencies.... it should NEVER be approved by the FDA, let alone prescribed to a patient suffering from mental instability to begin with!
Who is truly responsible for these killings???
The gun is simply a weapon of choice. A fully complimented military is a choice, as is a stone.
The mind altering drug, is a catalyst, a contributing ingredient, if you will, that destabilizes the mind and
thus, arms that mind to commit the crime.
1) The Pharmaceutical Company makes the drug, is complicit in arming the mind to commit the crime.
2) The Food and Drug Administration (FDA), a US Federal Institution, approves of the drug, is complicit
in arming the mind to commit the crime.
3) The Psychiatrist, prescribing the drug is complicit in arming the mind to commit the crime.
4) The Pharmacist, preparing and dispensing the drug, is complicit in arming the mind to commit the crime.
It should be noted that each of the above are partially to blame for the crime as much as the individual
who perpetrated the crime. Behind EACH of those 4 entities are individuals engaged in Politics and Banking
operations, worldwide.
It should also be noted that alongside politicians and bankers, those 4 are said to be "Educated" and
"Highly Trained Professionals".
Inordinate Greed also, is a mental and spiritual sickness.
It lurks in the shadows behind other objects of desire.
Sex, Money, Material Wealth, and Power to protect it all, and for some, Fame, are the prime objects
of Greed.
Now, "Pride" blinds the mind from observing and comprehending these underlying components that contribute to
so much of the world's ills. In fact, it may be safe to conclude that pride is behind the greed.
And where does that Pride come from?
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^ What caused the individual to become disturbed, to begin with? His/her defenses broken down and become
searchers for relief from the inner turmoils, that dog them, to resort to "professional" psychiatric healthcare
that resorts to prescribing the medication capable of sealing their fate?

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Posted by DazedScorp
Posted by Scorp73

Now, why does it matter that I'm a military trained expert shot? Let me ask you these question: Can you hit what you're aiming at with an automatic rifle, even semi automatic rifle? The answer is simply no. Fully automatic weapons with a large capacity magazine are not meant for self defense. They're meant for psychological warfare or terrorism. Even an AR-15/M-16 A2 or an Ak-74/47 popping off 3 round bursts make it impossible to hit what you are aiming at. Even someone weighing 250+ is spraying at the sky after the second round goes off. In other words, in the hands of an untrained and overly confident user, these type of weapons are pure danger for the user and those around them. No, ifs, ands or buts.



errr... That's the point I was trying to make, and accidently left it out.
A handgun, seems like it would be much more accurate, than 3 round bursts/automatic fire from an AK-47/M-16. I would think those rifles are meant more for cover fire/keeping an enemy pinned down without actually expecting to hit the target.
click to expand


It's all good. Hand guns are actually LESS accurate than a rifle, believe it or not. However, for close range, I'd take a hand gun or a shot gun for self defense over an automatic weapon any day. Another slant to this is, what is the purpose of the gun? Assault rifles and handguns have 1 purpose: To kill people, not defend yourself. Hunting rifles can be used for sport, but an Ak-47? Give me a break...
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Posted by MrFirebird
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IF a drug is known to have potentially serious side effects such as homicidal tendencies.... it should NEVER be approved by the FDA, let alone prescribed to a patient suffering from mental instability to begin with!
Who is truly responsible for these killings???
The gun is simply a weapon of choice. A fully complimented military is a choice, as is a stone.
The mind altering drug, is a catalyst, a contributing ingredient, if you will, that destabilizes the mind and
thus, arms that mind to commit the crime.




Go back to what I was getting at the first time: Someone who is that deeply disturbed won't be helped by an SSRI. Now what CAN happen is suicidal ideation as a result of these drugs, and that is why they shouldn't be treated as one in the same and that is a fault of the medical field. An improper diagnosis will cause more damage than any drug. Prozac is an SSRI, so is Zoloft, but you can't give them to a psychopath and expect a sane individual to appear.
Here's a nuance you're missing. A gun isn't simply a weapon of choice. It's a tool that has only one purpose, and that is to kill. True, there are other weapons in the world or things you can use to kill one another, but they are multipurpose. A gun isn't. It's single purpose is death. To think otherwise disrespects the weapon for what it is.
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Posted by MrFirebird
Indeed, death is certain. That's a truth.
To fear it, is wasteful. To prepare for it, is wise.
Spectre, how do you prepare for death? Tell the truth, ONLY if you know it.
Indeed, it is a very SIMPLE Truth which you ought to already know.


You sound like a nerd, which means you will need my credentials.
On Death;
In my teens to adulthood - modern weapons plus hand to hand combat - I am military trained.
Pre teen - Traditional weapons plus hand to hand combat - Tribal training.
Every few months i will head into the rainforest to go on the hunt, to sharpen my predatory skills, to heighten it. I have been doing this for many years. In the jungle, there is no preparations for Death, there can only be the hunter and the hunted.
I know Death, it is the cycle of life - the Law of nature.
On Details;
I am a certified Black Belt holder in Six Sigma, Lean Manufacturing..etc..etc...etc.
I am really incredibly good with details.

Currently;
I am the top gun of a MNC in my part of the world.
Boardroom wars, wheeling and dealing jet setting life, you name it, i've done it.
I employ people like you into my teams...
So now that you have SOME of my credentials;
Will my knowledge be useful?
If so.....
Go back to my earlier postings, understand it this time.
The details are not important, the results are, work around the result that you desire to have.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again... There is no solution.... If you can't control the actions of sane free minded people from killing people... How can you be anymore effective at controlling insane people? We just have to accept the fact that when we wake up and interact in this world we are at the mercy of each other. No law or government tyranny could stop you from killing someone if you wanted to and even if they got lucky.... We're they really successful??? I mean the root cause was you and your own mind and they certainly failed in stoping you from wanting to kill.
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Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
I've said it before and I'll say it again... There is no solution.... If you can't control the actions of sane free minded people from killing people... How can you be anymore effective at controlling insane people? We just have to accept the fact that when we wake up and interact in this world we are at the mercy of each other. No law or government tyranny could stop you from killing someone if you wanted to and even if they got lucky.... We're they really successful??? I mean the root cause was you and your own mind and they certainly failed in stoping you from wanting to kill.


The human being truly lacks empathy.
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Posted by Ellybean
Idk, if the government truly wanted to go full out tyranny on our asses, I don't think any amount of guns we have access to now would protect us. Chemical warfare, production power, disorganized masses with only pockets of a few trained individuals going against the military machine, nukes. Those end-of-dayer types might be able to survive, but most of us would be sol.



That's right, EB.
Military superiority is already in place. But Mil. Super. and Mfg of War Materiel aren't the only reasons
it's over for Americans. A majority of Americans, like the rest of the world, have been dumbed down.
What has been going on in Syria will, one day, be going on in the US.
It's only a matter of time. There will no doubt be pockets of resistance
but even IF the resistance held control of the reduced US military, the generation will
NOT be able to exploit it wisely.
There is nothing anyone can do.
What I am talking about is something deeper. Something that cannot be fought against via conventional
weapons from the humble stone to the ghastly NBCs.
Which is why I told 73, his military training is irrelevant.

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The ROOT cause lies in the spiritual realm.
Why people commit the crimes they do is because they yielded to the temptations that broke down their
strength to resist. The temptations came from all directions, over the course of their lives.
Some fought and fought and fought but they fell by the wayside.
The consequences bear heavily upon them and for many, physical manifests itself in the way
of these capital crimes of murder and murder/suicide and suicide.
But remember, their journey may have begun a lonnnnnng time before the final act is played.
Physically strong, yet spiritually weak.
The Spirit IS the Infrastructure and is why Psychological Warfare is favored over mechanized warfare.
Hard power is expended only after soft power has run it's course and objectives have not been
fulfilled to the satisfaction of the powers that be.
Once the soul is possessed, it can be controlled and as a consequence, the body, too, can be
controlled.
The most foolish thing a man can ever do, is convince himself that he cannot be demonically possessed.

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Posted by MrFirebird
Posted by Ellybean
Idk, if the government truly wanted to go full out tyranny on our asses, I don't think any amount of guns we have access to now would protect us. Chemical warfare, production power, disorganized masses with only pockets of a few trained individuals going against the military machine, nukes. Those end-of-dayer types might be able to survive, but most of us would be sol.



That's right, EB.
Military superiority is already in place. But Mil. Super. and Mfg of War Materiel aren't the only reasons
it's over for Americans. A majority of Americans, like the rest of the world, have been dumbed down.
What has been going on in Syria will, one day, be going on in the US.
It's only a matter of time. There will no doubt be pockets of resistance
but even IF the resistance held control of the reduced US military, the generation will
NOT be able to exploit it wisely.
There is nothing anyone can do.
What I am talking about is something deeper. Something that cannot be fought against via conventional
weapons from the humble stone to the ghastly NBCs.
Which is why I told 73, his military training is irrelevant.


click to expand


You're shifting gears a bit. If we slide down the slippery slope into anarchy, or more likely some sort of fundamentalist Christian theocracy in this day and age, then SSRIs and gun control aren't going an issue. However, before we wander away from it: The point stands. Automatic weapons serve no purpose in civilian hands. If you don't want to believe me, go fire one and tell me how accurate you were.
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Posted by Scorp73
Posted by MrFirebird
Posted by Ellybean
Idk, if the government truly wanted to go full out tyranny on our asses, I don't think any amount of guns we have access to now would protect us. Chemical warfare, production power, disorganized masses with only pockets of a few trained individuals going against the military machine, nukes. Those end-of-dayer types might be able to survive, but most of us would be sol.



That's right, EB.
Military superiority is already in place. But Mil. Super. and Mfg of War Materiel aren't the only reasons
it's over for Americans. A majority of Americans, like the rest of the world, have been dumbed down.
What has been going on in Syria will, one day, be going on in the US.
It's only a matter of time. There will no doubt be pockets of resistance
but even IF the resistance held control of the reduced US military, the generation will
NOT be able to exploit it wisely.
There is nothing anyone can do.
What I am talking about is something deeper. Something that cannot be fought against via conventional
weapons from the humble stone to the ghastly NBCs.
Which is why I told 73, his military training is irrelevant.




You're shifting gears a bit. If we slide down the slippery slope into anarchy, or more likely some sort of fundamentalist Christian theocracy in this day and age, then SSRIs and gun control aren't going an issue. However, before we wander away from it: The point stands. Automatic weapons serve no purpose in civilian hands. If you don't want to believe me, go fire one and tell me how accurate you were.
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^
The US military is controlled by civilians. But NOT the American people.
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How's that for accuracy? Pretty shitty, huh.
Accuracy coming to an American hometown near you.

btw, autos have a simi-auto select. Great for versatility.
What you're going on about regarding full auto accuracy sounds pretty stupid, considering the military uses 'em...... after how many years and wars??? IF they use 'em, don't you think they'd want them to be a bit accurate? ammo don't come cheap or as fast as the gun can expend them.

Imagine what would happen if you were forced to give up your child.
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IMHO, Iraq was a surefire way of telling the American people who remotely even think they can wage a "revolution"
they are screwed. Because Iraq is EXACTLY what it would like. A Turkey Shoot!
IMHO, the last time the people remotely had a chance was the Civil War and we all know how that turned out.
Hows about a nice "multi-functional" cremation container? This ain't your father's bobsled.
Multi Functional Cremation Container For by Jason < class="scribd__embed" ="http://www.scribd.com/embeds/17690179/content?start_page=1&view_mode=scroll&access_key=key-2fbcn94rutolv9n5sczj" data-auto-height="false" data-aspect-ratio="0.680756395995551" scrolling="no" id="doc_91914" width="100% " height="600" frameborder="0">
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Posted by MrFirebird
^
The US military is controlled by civilians. But NOT the American people.
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How's that for accuracy? Pretty shitty, huh.
Accuracy coming to an American hometown near you.

btw, autos have a simi-auto select. Great for versatility.
What you're going on about regarding full auto accuracy sounds pretty stupid, considering the military uses 'em...... after how many years and wars??? IF they use 'em, don't you think they'd want them to be a bit accurate? ammo don't come cheap or as fast as the gun can expend them.

Imagine what would happen if you were forced to give up your child.
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U go round after round of details...
Putting blame on so many fronts..
You seem really intelligent.....but the focus is wrong, the obsession in the wrong place.
You could be of great use if only you fear less and be courageous.
Your life must really suck...
Because I see you for what u r.....a consistent whiner.
Be a doer....
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Do not disgrace a warrior.
Even if he is your enemy...
Respect him.
To do so otherwise is a great dishonour.
Without honour u r nothing...
Worst then a worm..

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Posted by DazedScorp
Posted by Scorp73

I'm not going to wade into your red herrings, strawmen, and slippery slopes anymore, and your slight on my service deserves an apology and gratitude instead of your insults. I have three combat tours under my belt, and have seen and done things you casually hear about on Fox News or have paraphrased into conspiracy theories by Alex Jones. For what it's worth, I loathe what Bush and his neo-conservatives did to the military and the world, but am not really interesting in debating your fringe politics. You sound ridiculously naive and gullible - a conspiracy chaser to be perfectly honest.



I'm really happy that someone finally said this. And very well put actually.
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*tips hat* I do try. I realized half my post got cut off. I hate it when I lose half of my rants.
What I was saying: Even with an automatic rifle set to semi-automatic, 3 round bursts are also inaccurate and not meant for close quarters combat, e.g. self defense. So, when the G-men kick your door down to take away your AM radio, use a shotgun, and load it with bird shot. Hell, it doesn't even matter which gauge you use. It will clear the room out really nicely and quickly and you won't kill your family, next door neighbors or yourself in the process.
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73
Apology? Gratitude?
I neither owe you an apology nor yet, gratitude.




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Posted by MrFirebird

73
Apology? Gratitude?
I neither owe you an apology nor yet, gratitude.







Oh, you do. You've just isolated yourself too deeply in some paranoid political fringe and as a result, you don't seem to know any better. Let me put it this way for you since you've had trouble reading and responding to what I've said previously - I think I've asked you 4 times if you've ever fired an automatic weapon, and each time you attacked me personally in response. I'll take that as confirmation that you are just parroting what someone like Glenn Beck told you to say about weapons, SSRIs, a coming disintegration of society, etc, etc, etc. Furthermore, you are comfortable with the idea that your ignorance and repetition of propaganda is somehow better than actual first hand experience, mine or your own. I couldn't personally give a rat's patoot what you really believe; however, if you attack my military service again, I'll drop to your level and respond in kind. I don't think it's really necessary to go that low, but you're making it difficult.


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