—

I've just become involved with another Virgo (known him for 8 years, but we weren't particularly close). We get along on an intellectual level so well, it's unbelievable. What I was hoping to get some advice on is this: we've been seeing each other for about a month and whenever he's drunk (which has been twice) he tells me he loves me, which I find really odd, because his behaviour sober is much more reserved. Is he just saying this or does he actually mean it? I mean, it kind of freaks me out a bit because although we've known each other a long time, it takes a while to build up to that for me, especially since he is so reserved normally. He is a lovely guy and I really do like him. And I haven't actually mentioned to him that he tells me he loves me when he's drunk. So should I mention it, or will it mortify him too much?! I'm a Taurus by the way.

What do you think?

Do you know right from wrong?

What the hell you asking us for?

Why does anybody come on here and ask anybody anything if they already know right from wrong?

I'm sorry, don't mean to take this out on you, but, my God . . you've known him for eight frigging years . . what the hell do we know about what will, or won't mortify him?

I dont' understand people, I try, but, grasping why people prefer to make theirsevles look stupid and helpless . . is beyond me. I know, people would say, "P-Angel, it's just curteous to be nice and supportive of people." What? When they're being stupid? Is that it? Supportive of what? I don't get it.

He's been a friend for 8 years, now, you're dating him . . . what the fuck could we possibly know about how he would react to situations. Of course, people will come on here and say all kinds of wonderful things to make you feel better . . but, they are all false speculations . . . we don't know this man . . you do.

Will he be mortified? You answer the question, he's your boyfriend.

Alright, that was mean of me, copperhead, and I apologize for being so bitchy.

But, I still don't get it. What could any of us possibly know about this man, in comparison to you knowing him? Any and all answers will really mean "nothing" as far as you're personal relating with him . . . so why ask?

Angry? I'm not sensing that emotion in the description.

Roxi, now you've lost me even further. He says he loves her when he's drunk because he's angry? And doesn't mean it?

Damn, I need to find an understanding pill somewhere because none of this makes sense to me.

I asked the question because that's what people seem to do on these boards! Also, although I have known him for 8 years, we've never been particularly close at all, sometimes not seeing each other or speaking for a year or more. Obviously I don't expect anyone to truly understand what he is doing, but I never expected that. I only expected people to reply if they'd had experience with an issue like this. I asked the question because I was interested in what others had to say, not because I'm a moron.

And no I suppose it doesn't matter whether he meant it, but it matters no more or less that the majority of questions people throw in these boards, didn't realise my question would be so offensively mundane and moronic.

Ah well...we live and learn!!

"I asked the question because I was interested in what others had to say, not because I'm a moron."

We probably all are morons at some point in our lives. Probably more than we even realize, for it's natural to block these moments from ourselves.

I realize you asked the question because you were interested in what others had to say, for that's the reason any of us ask any question of another, lol, that wasn't my point.

When a person reacts, expresses, responds, to anything in their lives, they do so with a physical display they aren't aware of; beit, the eyes flashing, brows narrowing, jaw going slack, hands twirling, shoulders slumped or squared, stroking fingers through their hair, thier eye contact or lack thereof, shifting from foot to foot . . countless subconscious things, appropriately.

If any of us had an experience of a person spilling guts to us . . the experience is different for each of us, because we were moved differently by each person.

This is your experience, only you know what this means of this man.

Now, apply alcohol to this . . . when this man says that he loves you while drunk, what do his subconscious reactions tell you? Can you detect anything from another situation while sober? Do his eyes shift back and forth when he's telling the truth, or lying? Are his inebriated googly eyes, trying to shift while saying this, or; Is he, in his stupor, trying to look firm and deep? Naturally, he's laid-back, composed and reserved while sober . . that's a given for a V.

Even when we're drunk, our subconscious expresses itself as it really feels . . until we drink ourselves unconscious, lol

copperhead, don't be offended . . it's normal for me to look at things differently from everyone else in the world, for I am. Even to myself, I ask these questions . .
A question, to me, does not have a definitive answer, I just work that way. So, when you asked this question, my mind went to . .

My point . . . why would anyone ask a complete stranger for a reason why someone, they don't even know exists, would behave a certain way?

I know, I know . . imagine having to live inside my head, lol

People think they have issues . . what would your life be like if there were no faces? Not real ones, anyway . . most are masks. How then, can you decipher between reality and fantasy? The psyche . . underneath the piles of crap that we insist on carrying with us in life. The surreal doesn't have baggage . .

Am I insane? Prolly !!!!

What's sane?

oh, lol

Pissed . . that means angry.

Communication barrier between U. S&K, sorry I misunderstood.

DAMN P-A that was a bit harsh don't you think—? We're all entitled to ask questions aren't we....If we're not you should submit that tp the bylaws of dxp and have them add it as an addendum that all questions must be approved by the intelligence committee before a new forum is created!

Copperhead.....trust me he knows he said it and it probably waiting for you to bring it up. He says it when he's drunk so that he may hide behind his inebriation in case you don't feel the same way. No adult...at least one that isn't in need of a serious intervention...gets soooo drunk that they totally forget what they do or say, especially twice in one month! You can do one of two things...You can bring it up to him and see what he says....but bring it up semi- lightheartedly (which is probably what he's hoping you will do) or you can wait for him to work up the courage to say it without the help of his liquid backbone.

I personally would wait for the latter.....let him take the first leap and show that he is sure of your relationship...so sure he doesn't have to hide his feelings behind a bottle and a latenight phone call!

then got drunk . . so . . that would make you pissing pissed

Pissed really means drunk?

So, when you have to pee, is that called piss?

Harsh? lol

Perspectives are all different, that really is apart of my answer . . so, harsh would be one . . thank you, that was apart of my point

How each person sees something is different, because . . we are.

"Copperhead.....trust me he knows he said it"

lol

I actually find it quite odd that if a person percieves something as non-conclusive, hence: open-minded . . yet, another will have it closed-ended, hence: narrow

That the open part is bad because it allows the own mind to satisfy itself with the right answer, yet, the closed part is good because it passifies and gives a sense of closure, though, that hasn't happened because it came from somewhere outside of your own mind.

Actually Roxi.....Pissy is pretty universal..... We in Detroit/Ann Arbor/Lansing etc refer to someone when they are super drunk as Pissy Drunk....you're not alone!

Perspectives are all different, that really is apart of my answer . . so, harsh would be one . . thank you, that was apart of my point

Understood....just had a little difficulty moving past the first post..... u were a little out of pocket on that! Sorry just callin' it like I see it!

That the open part is bad because it allows the own mind to satisfy itself with the right answer, yet, the closed part is good because it passifies and gives a sense of closure, though, that hasn't happened because it came from somewhere outside of your own mind.

Very true....damned if you do and damned if you don't. We all know the right answer to our questions we just look for reassurance to do what it is we want to do which at sometimes may be different than what we know we should do! Most of us know there's no way anyone could possibly answer a question about another person whom no one knows inner most feelings. We know as the question askers that it is up to us to decide what is right based on ourselves, beliefs and what we know about that person. However sometimes the asnwer we come up with is not the answer we like...thus we turn to others for an opinion.

Also it is our families, peers, environment and culture that helps us to form our decision making processes and assist us in deciding the way we approach an issue. Which is why DXP is so unique. You have so many people from different cultures, backgrounds, countries, religions etc. that can give you so many different perspectives on how to reach your decision or tackle your issue.

Detroit/Ann Arbor/Lansing, Michigan U.S.
or we just say when we're going to drink or have plans to drink that we are going to get "Pissy"

I feel ya girl!

"However sometimes the asnwer we come up with is not the answer we like...thus we turn to others for an opinion."

Yes, I'm very much aware of this . . that was the very reason why I even repsonded to this. Because people turn to others for answers because they don't LIKE what is right.

Think about that for what it means . . not as an explanation, rather what it means.

That was my whole point . . if we ask another for an opinion, then we don't like what is right for us and want to find something else to "use" as an explanation, but, that's not real. If we liked our conclusion, we would then be in here going, "Hallelujah, I'm so happy. Look at my life, isn't it beautiful"

It can be beautiful, even with our errors and flaws . . but, not by another and their view. That is the problem with the question . . the answer belongs to someone else.

When our guard is down, we are defenseless . . alcohol does this, to all of us. At this time, he throw caution to the wind the let himself be free. If he wasn't so drunk that he passed out completely snoggered, then it's likely that he's perfectly aware of what he said. He's Virgo, he's cautious . . it's likely that he's waiting for some clue as to how she feels about his endearment.

If something wonderful has happened, something that all us females strive to have and we desire to hear, such as: This man told his woman he loved her.
But, it is related to strangers as though there's a potential problem lying underneath, then is it really within HIM that the issue lies?

This was the reason why I approached this thread the way I did . . because the issue isn't within him, rather HER . . that is where I'm trying to get her to look, because her man that she's known for 8 years and is now the boyfriend she adores, has come clean with his feelings. "I love you", he has admitted . . and she see's this as though there must be something wrong . .

By her own admition, it takes her a long time to get to the, 'I love you', part . . so, this is what triggered the search for an answer other than her own fear, or insecurity, or whatever it is. If it can be confirmed that he was just drunk, then his words can be dismissed, so they don't have to be dealt with. If these words were wonderful to hear and bliss was sure to follow, then this thread wouldn't be asking people if he really meant it . . what do we know . . nothing.

Within herself is the answer . .

Reality is harsh

yes a pee is piss too............you can take the piss out of someone too.....piss in the wind.......

pissing useful word!!

rox


Useful, yes . . and messy . . pissing in the wind. A golden shower orgy !!!

This was the reason why I approached this thread the way I did . . because the issue isn't within him, rather HER . . that is where I'm trying to get her to look, because her man that she's known for 8 years and is now the boyfriend she adores, has come clean with his feelings. "I love you", he has admitted . . and she see's this as though there must be something wrong . .

By her own admition, it takes her a long time to get to the, 'I love you', part . . so, this is what triggered the search for an answer other than her own fear, or insecurity, or whatever it is. If it can be confirmed that he was just drunk, then his words can be dismissed, so they don't have to be dealt with. If these words were wonderful to hear and bliss was sure to follow, then this thread wouldn't be asking people if he really meant it . . what do we know . . nothing.

Within herself is the answer . .

Reality is harsh


P-Angel, I can see both sides. I can see Copperhead being scared because they have only been involved romantically for a month! Also because he's said it to her drunk.....enough to make any RPOP second guess that. I also know it's easier to love when you're drunk. Hell I love Taco Bell, my car, my bed and my girls etc.....

However I also know that when you are drunk you have the courage to say things that you have wanted to say for awhile and also feel more free to tell the truth.

I think she just wants what any woman would want.....a nice simple sober I Love You from the heart....Not some Drunk Ass soliloquoy!

um, ladies, I thought the whole point of this was to remain imparitial....you girls obviously have take a liking to to this virguys drunken word vomit...😛
obviously, one could tell that this guy has emotional troubles, but let's try to find a solution, or at least a speculation as to why? Emotions aren't an easy thing to deal with for some, but if she finds worth in all the drunken promises, then I guess our hands are tied. 😢

Hey VE,

You are absolutely correct. For what purpose is there to try and find an answer for his endearment, whether, it was real, or, false. The only person who can figure this out, is her.

"I think she just wants what any woman would want.....a nice simple sober I Love You from the heart"

Who's to say, from what part one person's heart speaks?

For instance, take me, I am usually brutal, direct and unapproachable to people while straight . . like now. However, when I'm drunk, I'm all sweet and loving, warm, smiling, and asking forgiveness for every foot I've stepped on.

From where is my true heart speaking? Sober and cold, or, drunk and warm?

The fact remains, this man proclaimed his love for his woman . . is it enough? Is one's heart enough . . IF . . it isn't what you want to hear? Because you don't WANT to hear it, does that make his feelings false? Who is the sincere one in this scenerio? Alright, so they've only been dating for a month, but, they've known each other for 8 years. If you knew someone for that long - even if it wasn't closely - you still observe and interact . . wouldn't you have a clue as to his integrity?

Branh said a couple weeks ago, something about looking for problems that don't exist. I'm not positive to the whole conversation, at the moment, but, this is what he was referring to.

There isn't a problem here.


I know this seems harsh, cold and insensitive. That is the intent, for . . provoking the subjective is the ONLY way to get a person to look at the "meaning", rather than how it appears. It appears the way we design it, so we can hide from whatever it is that frightens us . . when our backs are pushed up against the wall, we take notice, and defend our positions.

In whatever fasion works, I will continue to attempt to get people to look at who they are . . no matter the end of how they feel about me.

Now, that the conclusion has been posed, the problem is the woman and her own issues . . she'll defiantly defend (and others, such as yourself) which allows her to see ALL the reasons why she's not like that, rather than being closed-minded to just the one posibility . . . he was drunk and didn't mean it.

I know you probably don't get me, most people don't.

🙂

Odds are, he's using the "drunk confession" as an ego shield to protect against rejection. It is entirely possible that he's secretly carried a flame for you over all these years of knowing you, even on what you might have considered to be a "casual" basis...

Thank you Dyr...Sensible as usual... that's all I was trying to say in the first place.

Who's to say, from what part one person's heart speaks?

For instance, take me, I am usually brutal, direct and unapproachable to people while straight . . like now. However, when I'm drunk, I'm all sweet and loving, warm, smiling, and asking forgiveness for every foot I've stepped on.

I don't know maybe.....something is getting twisted around that I am saying. But I never said nor attempted to say what part of his heart was saying I love you! I don't know that no one does but CH! As for your personality change when you've been drinking... if that works for you and your loved ones so be it....IT is what it is! I'm not here to JUDGE! I simply stated my opinion and what I would think from my limited perspective of the situation.....you don't have to like or agree with it makes no difference to me at all!


Now, that the conclusion has been posed, the problem is the woman and her own issues . . she'll defiantly defend (and others, such as yourself) which allows her to see ALL the reasons why she's not like that, rather than being closed-minded to just the one posibility . . . he was drunk and didn't mean it.

I know you probably don't get me, most people don't.


I'm glad that in this limited thread of 32 posts (including the topic post) that you were able to clearly and concisely break down both mine and CH's way of approaching issues and our possible view of different situations........Thank you wise and brilliant Clinical Psychologist for coming to the conclusion that it WAS our outlook on life and situations and not just throwing out hypothesis based on the facts given!

I know you probably don't get me, most people don't.

Don't know you enough to try........wouldn't want something incorrect to be inferred from the analysis/conclusion I come to!

lol,

"break down both mine and CH's way of approaching issues"

Silly . . that's my approach, not yours . .

"Thank you wise and brilliant Clinical Psychologist"

You're very welcome, it works wonders, even when you don't know that you don't know.

"wouldn't want something incorrect to be inferred"

Meaning that my conclusion is incorrect, lol . . not very bright, are you?

If you had the mental ability to understand my words for what they meant, you'd see that the incorrect conclusion is what was intended, to force the mind to expand beyond a pre-disposed answer.

lol, that's ok.

Meaning that my conclusion is incorrect, lol . . not very bright, are you?

If you had the mental ability to understand my words for what they meant, you'd see that the incorrect conclusion is what was intended, to force the mind to expand beyond a pre-disposed answer.

lol, that's ok.

Actually very much to the contrary.......why would I go back and forth with some twice my age?
My point was why make it a personal attack obviously you didn't get what I was saying which was dxp is an open forum for questions, opinions, viewpoints so.....why be so judgmental as you were when saying both ch and myself are women with issues? Why make it personal? That was my point you may not like what I have to say just like I may not agree with some of the things you say but to take it to a personal level is immature and ridiculous.

You are obviously a very intelligent woman P-Angel....to which you painfully try to make apparant and that's cool it works for you. However the issue I have is when you allow your superiority complex to pass judgment on people you don't know, never will know and probably never meet.

It's find to not agree....look at Dyr for example. No matter the question I have have never seen make a personal attack on a person just because he did not agree with their viewpoint I have never seen him take his disagreement to a personal level unless the other person did......but you two are different people and I guess gratiousness and a superiority complex are antonyms but hey that's what makes you the wonderful woman you are! Keep doing you!

As for me.....The only thing I have to prove right now is that I know Torts, Criminal Law and Contracts...for my law school finals!

some

someone

P-Angel,

I almost forgot to thank you for the lovely compliments you paid me. Thank you so much and I hope you and your family have a wonderful, happy, healthy and blessed holiday season!

menaremysteries,

When I speak, and I say, "you", I am meaning you as in all people.

Just like people say, "they" . . who the hell is they, anyway?

If you CHOOSE to take something personally, and then get insulted, then that's not my problem.

"but to take it to a personal level is immature and ridiculous."

Yes, it is . . so stop.

Think about it . . I don't even know you, how could I possibly know what kind of issues you have in your life, lol, that is ridiculous.

If you choose to read my posts and you take it personally, when common sense would tell you that I don't even know you . . then, oh well, so be it. That's your choice.

If you had the mental ability to understand my words for what they meant, you'd see that the incorrect conclusion is what was intended, to force the mind to expand beyond a pre-disposed answer.

lol, that's ok

That's not personal—?? ok p-angel

If you choose to read my posts and you take it personally, when common sense would tell you that I don't even know you . . then, oh well, so be it. That's your choice.

How many posts have you made on here? How many times have I responded as if you were speaking to me personally, until now?

The only time I take your posts personally is when you are directing them at me personally in a negative manner. But you know as you said that's your choice and personal decision to do that and you are more than welcome too. It is ridiculous and unreasonable to expect one not to respond on a personal level when you make personal attacks!

Message posted by: menaremysteries on 12/5/2006 11:41:04 AM ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.234
DAMN P-A that was a bit harsh don't you think—? We're all entitled to ask questions aren't we....If we're not you should submit that tp the bylaws of dxp and have them add it as an addendum that all questions must be approved by the intelligence committee before a new forum is created!

The first person between the two of us who posted something with the intention of having a negative, derogatory slant . . was you my, friend.

Up until that point, I never spoke to you.

Do you know how to battle?

Message posted by: P-Angel on 12/5/2006 11:44:32 AM ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.94
Harsh? lol

Perspectives are all different, that really is apart of my answer . . so, harsh would be one . . thank you, that was apart of my point

How each person sees something is different, because . . we are.



Above was my response to you . . sound negative . . hmmmmmmm?

Message posted by: menaremysteries on 12/5/2006 11:27:45 PM
Thank you wise and brilliant Clinical Psychologist for coming to the conclusion that it WAS our outlook on life and situations and not just throwing out hypothesis based on the facts given!

Here's the next derogatory statement made between me and you, which again, you were the first to voice.

Message posted by: menaremysteries on 12/5/2006 11:27:45 PM
Thank you wise and brilliant Clinical Psychologist for coming to the conclusion that it WAS our outlook on life and situations and not just throwing out hypothesis based on the facts given!

Here's the next derogatory statement made between me and you, which again, you were the first to voice.

You're a law student?

Do you know the difference between "attack" and "retaliate"?

Hmmmmm . . . what does this mean?

If a person approaches another with the intention of stirring something, then once they get the response they were looking for, however, excuses themselves from having responsibility in initiating, so that they can come back and say, they were the victim in this scenerio . . . what does that make them?

A sociopath ??

Criminal law will certainly expose you to this kind of behaviour, it would be prudent for your career to comprehend this tactic.

DAMN P-A that was a bit harsh don't you think—? We're all entitled to ask questions aren't we....If we're not you should submit that tp the bylaws of dxp and have them add it as an addendum that all questions must be approved by the intelligence committee before a new forum is created!


Who's battling and for what? This isn't a battle.....or anything worth becoming one there's too many important battles to fight in life...you should know this!

That was a statement based on your post.....not a personal attack on your intelligence! Get your mind right...(that is a slang saying FYI not an attack on your mental ability) No one doubted your intelligence, capacity or capabilities!

Hmmmmm . . . what does this mean?

If a person approaches another with the intention of stirring something, then once they get the response they were looking for, however, excuses themselves from having responsibility in initiating, so that they can come back and say, they were the victim in this scenerio . . . what does that make them?

A sociopath ??

Criminal law will certainly expose you to this kind of behaviour, it would be prudent for your career to comprehend this tactic

Actually it would make them the agressor....to which there is no complete defense! Depending on the offense (Malum in se or Malum Prohibita) is when you would bring in intent...or mental state i.e. the issue of whether or not someone is a sociopath.

In most cases seeing as a response to a comment on an open forum online is not a crime... and neither common law or the model penal code addresses the fact pattern you have presented.....unless where you reside they have statutory laws regarding this...you are in the wrong area of law my dear!

Thanks for the helpful hint on my career....I'll make sure to keep your advice in mind! lol

Thank you wise and brilliant Clinical Psychologist for coming to the conclusion that it WAS our outlook on life and situations and not just throwing out hypothesis based on the facts given!

Was said in response to the delightful diagnosis you posted below........

Now, that the conclusion has been posed, the problem is the woman and her own issues . . she'll defiantly defend (and others, such as yourself) which allows her to see ALL the reasons why she's not like that,

they were the victim in this scenerio.....

Here we go making personal assumptions again...a dangerous thing.....For the record when I first responded to your post it was not to stir a debate with you...For what? It was simply saying that I thought what you posted was a little harsh. You of all people should know that even though this is an anonymous board you are still vulnerable when talking about matters of the heart! Especially when talking about a personal relationship! Sure in other aspects of life, work, school, acquaintance relationships etc the question of intent and meaning would not be second guessed.

However I thought the words used was a bit harsh considering the sensitivity of the situation....it was not the overall point you were trying to deliver but the manner in which it was delivered. Not a personal attack nor a challenge for a DXP duel...lol

How hilarious!

See how much more you can get out of "provoking the subjective"?

It allows them to expand away from the barriers they've constructed around theirselves. There are many facets, exploring them all, rather than just the ONE, or the few, encourages evolution.

Where do you get from grossly padding the injuries, that are in most cases, self-inflicted because feelings were allowed to influence rational thought?

Nowhere, because a lifetime is spent, responding to each mysterious infliction, rather than looking deeper for a purpose.

Licking wounds feels good, at the moment, but, what if those came more often than epiphony's? Where are you going? What design are you making for yourself?

People, for the most part, refuse to look inside themselves, because it scars the hell out them, and maybe it should. I have found that if I, or you, or anybody, cuddles people when there is no need for emotional nurishment, then it programs the person to close their minds to their own accountability. People, by nature, are compassionate, so they will aid another when there is distress . . but, what if it isn't? What if it's just a display for something else, ego-based?

Through calling somebody out on something they did . . then that wouldn't be unreasonable, IF you knew for a fact that the person was guilty?

What if it's on the subconscious level . . how do you get that out? By, putting someone on the spot . . thier minds will expand. If you don't put them on the spot, their minds will stay closed. It doesn't really matter to me if this girl ever responds to my posts . . because I know that her mind is now viewing this from all different angles, instead of just the answer she was looking for.

She was looking for one answer . . now, she has many. How she, or you feels about me, is irrelevant because I don't care because I don't take it personal. My aim is to open the mind, in any fashion that works.

I'm sure no one including me has any sort of personal feelings towards you....which is what I was saying in the beginning! All the points you made were good and your conclusion was basically what I was trying to say. I'm glad we are on the same wavelength! GVery good point