Confused...
This topic was created in the Virgo forum by love4ever on Monday, December 25, 2006 and has 31 replies.
My Virgo has been giving me the best of his attention and care since I declared my deep feelings. (His first reaction was silence, but after three weeks he made a complete u-turn). I am 100% sure that he likes me.
But...
I feel like he has drawn some kind of invisible line and he's holding me behind it no matter how deep he looks and how hard he tries to make me happy. He plays a loyal servant. He agrees to whatever I say, and does whatever I ask from him, almost immediately (he is behaving like he should not question my wills
). But still, there is this line that I am not allowed to pass. He has parried all my attacks so far, but has not changed his loving treatment either.
What does that mean? Any ideas?
But...
I feel like he has drawn some kind of invisible line and he's holding me behind it no matter how deep he looks and how hard he tries to make me happy. He plays a loyal servant. He agrees to whatever I say, and does whatever I ask from him, almost immediately (he is behaving like he should not question my wills
). But still, there is this line that I am not allowed to pass. He has parried all my attacks so far, but has not changed his loving treatment either. What does that mean? Any ideas?
"I feel like he has drawn some kind of invisible line and he's holding me behind it no matter how deep he looks and how hard he tries to make me happy."
love4ever, I think that most people do this. It's called . . our own standards. At times, it's conditions placed on another to direct the path of relating. There's no doubt in my mind that you are "feeling" this invisible line . . it seems apparant in most relationships.
"He plays a loyal servant. He agrees to whatever I say, and does whatever I ask from him, almost immediately."
Ah, the Virgo . . maddening, isn't it, at times? This is how they work . . playing the loyal servant . . that's it. Personally, I'm not liking this trait in the Virgo. Most people, me included, don't like it when a person is just sucking up to me, just agreeing . . . that's not being real to me . . disagree if that's how you feel. But, the Virgo won't do this . . they'll comprimise their own feelings, just to be a loyal servant . . that's not real enough . . that's just giving me something that sparkles to look at.
loves4ever . . you've described the Virgo, pretty much . . and that's just they way they are. You won't get much more than what you've stated from him. You spoke of your feelings to him and now he is just a dog, lapping at your feet, agreeing with whatever you have to say . . that's as good as it gets.
love4ever, I think that most people do this. It's called . . our own standards. At times, it's conditions placed on another to direct the path of relating. There's no doubt in my mind that you are "feeling" this invisible line . . it seems apparant in most relationships.
"He plays a loyal servant. He agrees to whatever I say, and does whatever I ask from him, almost immediately."
Ah, the Virgo . . maddening, isn't it, at times? This is how they work . . playing the loyal servant . . that's it. Personally, I'm not liking this trait in the Virgo. Most people, me included, don't like it when a person is just sucking up to me, just agreeing . . . that's not being real to me . . disagree if that's how you feel. But, the Virgo won't do this . . they'll comprimise their own feelings, just to be a loyal servant . . that's not real enough . . that's just giving me something that sparkles to look at.
loves4ever . . you've described the Virgo, pretty much . . and that's just they way they are. You won't get much more than what you've stated from him. You spoke of your feelings to him and now he is just a dog, lapping at your feet, agreeing with whatever you have to say . . that's as good as it gets.
At first, it seems so sweet . . here's this man who will be a loyal servant to you and it makes you feel like he likes you so much . . it doesn't take long, though, to realize that this isn't being REAL. Then, this feeling of joy turns sour and a person realizes that they can just push the man around, walk over top of him and still he'll be sitting there with a delightful look on his face, ready to be of service.
In his Virgo mind, he sees this as not wanting to argue, trying to be cheerful and only desiring to emphasize the positive side . . when in reality, it's being a lap-dog that becomes tiresome . . he thinks he's trying to show you love. Most people have a pretty dis-satisified reaction to this kind of behaviour in the Virgo, becase we want someone who isn't afraid of the negitive side of a person . .
Inevitably . . this is the cause for the destruction. Even in the beginning of this relationship, it's apparant . . he "plays" like the loyal servant, but, it's obvious that there is some unspoken condition.
Plays?
Yes, that probably would be accurate . . funny, Virgo's demand people be real to them, but, they don't necessarily give back thier own standards. That's not being very real, is it? Actually, that's being fake.
love4ever . . people are very complicated. I'm thinking that most people jump into relationships without really knowing the person inside . . how can there be any other way, especially if the person is only showing one side of themselves? In the case, the humble servant . . if you fall in love with a person like this . . how real can the love be if the only thing you get from them is obediance?
Still trying to figure them out . . I'm just rambling here, talking out loud some things that surface when I read your post . .
In his Virgo mind, he sees this as not wanting to argue, trying to be cheerful and only desiring to emphasize the positive side . . when in reality, it's being a lap-dog that becomes tiresome . . he thinks he's trying to show you love. Most people have a pretty dis-satisified reaction to this kind of behaviour in the Virgo, becase we want someone who isn't afraid of the negitive side of a person . .
Inevitably . . this is the cause for the destruction. Even in the beginning of this relationship, it's apparant . . he "plays" like the loyal servant, but, it's obvious that there is some unspoken condition.
Plays?
Yes, that probably would be accurate . . funny, Virgo's demand people be real to them, but, they don't necessarily give back thier own standards. That's not being very real, is it? Actually, that's being fake.
love4ever . . people are very complicated. I'm thinking that most people jump into relationships without really knowing the person inside . . how can there be any other way, especially if the person is only showing one side of themselves? In the case, the humble servant . . if you fall in love with a person like this . . how real can the love be if the only thing you get from them is obediance?
Still trying to figure them out . . I'm just rambling here, talking out loud some things that surface when I read your post . .
If someone just agreed with everything I said, just the loyal servant . . then, I would have doubts . . he says "this", but, feels "that".
I would run from that . . that is being false.
I would run from that . . that is being false.
"he is behaving like he should not question my wills"
"Sit" . . the dog sits, without question.
This is how it looks to others.
How we view ourselves, isn't necessarily how others percieve us.
Who the hell wants a servant as a partner . . not me, and it's apparant that most others feel this way, for issues that are similiar to this thread appear daily.
"Sit" . . the dog sits, without question.
This is how it looks to others.
How we view ourselves, isn't necessarily how others percieve us.
Who the hell wants a servant as a partner . . not me, and it's apparant that most others feel this way, for issues that are similiar to this thread appear daily.
Of course . . we all know ignorance is bliss . .
That should make it go away, Branh . . brilliant comment.lol
Generalize . . brilliant, since that's all we can really do in here. To even ask people in here what something means, when it was in fact, a man to whom none of us know, is essentially asking us to make assessments according to our perception of the Virgo in it's whole, hence: generalizing.
lol, my mind is delving . . have to get it out before I sink, completely. Do we know what we say, before we say it? Everybody thinks that they think that they know what they are thinking . . but, do we?
"Has anyone successfully got this point across to their partner and change the relationship for the better?"
Is that even possible? Can we change another? Especially, if what we're talking about is a subconsious action . . which I believe it is, for if a person realized they were doing it . . would they still do it?
My words here, aren't necessarily a conclusin on how the Virgo is, rather, how they are percieved by others.
That should make it go away, Branh . . brilliant comment.lol
Generalize . . brilliant, since that's all we can really do in here. To even ask people in here what something means, when it was in fact, a man to whom none of us know, is essentially asking us to make assessments according to our perception of the Virgo in it's whole, hence: generalizing.
lol, my mind is delving . . have to get it out before I sink, completely. Do we know what we say, before we say it? Everybody thinks that they think that they know what they are thinking . . but, do we?
"Has anyone successfully got this point across to their partner and change the relationship for the better?"
Is that even possible? Can we change another? Especially, if what we're talking about is a subconsious action . . which I believe it is, for if a person realized they were doing it . . would they still do it?
My words here, aren't necessarily a conclusin on how the Virgo is, rather, how they are percieved by others.
LOL! I guess Branh is right. You could dump him. Problem solved.
It's kinda sad to hear how these guys act. I haven't been around a lot of Virguys and never dated one so I don't know exactly how they are, but I know how I am.
Lapdog? No. But when I love someone, a lot of my happiness lies in their happiness. I wouldn't go against myself, hurt, or belittle myself for someone else's happiness because that's just masochism. But I would want to do as much as I could to see them smile. I do the same with my family and friends, not just romantic attachments.
I guess if someone saw me as "sucking up", a "servant" and a "lapdog" because I would go out of my way to make them happy then they probably aren't right for me and don't appreciate what I have to offer.
I've also known people who felt it wasn't "real" as P-Angel stated. For those people, giving to the extent that I did ***would*** be unnatural and unreal *FOR THEM*. They would never do the things that I would do, or be open to a point of view other than their own unless they were trying to get something in return or they were being FAKE. However, it IS natural for me. I am normally generous and open minded. Just because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't make them wrong. It makes US different.
Some of them also felt undeserving of such treatment and questioned it because of this. I feel that anyone that I love is deserving of the best I have to offer. Unfortunately, it's usually more than they can handle and more than they feel they have a right to get.
Again, Branh is actually kinda right. If you don't like how this guy is treating you, then you should dump him. You could be happy with a different guy and his actions might make someone ELSE happy.
It's kinda sad to hear how these guys act. I haven't been around a lot of Virguys and never dated one so I don't know exactly how they are, but I know how I am.
Lapdog? No. But when I love someone, a lot of my happiness lies in their happiness. I wouldn't go against myself, hurt, or belittle myself for someone else's happiness because that's just masochism. But I would want to do as much as I could to see them smile. I do the same with my family and friends, not just romantic attachments.
I guess if someone saw me as "sucking up", a "servant" and a "lapdog" because I would go out of my way to make them happy then they probably aren't right for me and don't appreciate what I have to offer.
I've also known people who felt it wasn't "real" as P-Angel stated. For those people, giving to the extent that I did ***would*** be unnatural and unreal *FOR THEM*. They would never do the things that I would do, or be open to a point of view other than their own unless they were trying to get something in return or they were being FAKE. However, it IS natural for me. I am normally generous and open minded. Just because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't make them wrong. It makes US different.
Some of them also felt undeserving of such treatment and questioned it because of this. I feel that anyone that I love is deserving of the best I have to offer. Unfortunately, it's usually more than they can handle and more than they feel they have a right to get.
Again, Branh is actually kinda right. If you don't like how this guy is treating you, then you should dump him. You could be happy with a different guy and his actions might make someone ELSE happy.
Think about this the other way around, love4ever, just for the sake of viewing all angles before making a decision to someone's sinceriety . .
"My Virgo has been giving me the best of his attention and care since I declared my deep feelings."
Since, the key word . . SINCE . . you've declared your feelings . . not before. And suddenly, you're on a pedalstool and can do no wrong.
If you had a girlfriend who was living this situation, how would you percieve that? Would it be bordering on a false sense of emotions? Would it seem suspect to you that NOW this man is all loving and shit . . would that not appear false if you weren't involved?
Why on a pedalstool? Why not just treat me normal, I would ask of myself while trying to discern whether his intentions were true. There must be some kind of gain for a person to just agree blindly . . what is that gain?
Is it because once declaration was made of love, now I'm a queen, a Goddess, who has no faults? Does he believe I have transcended above humanity, or, is there an ulterior motive? Either way . . is that being real, or, playing on my feelings?
An equal, gentlemen . . we want equality . . not dominance, and that is what it is, isn't it? If a man just agreed with everything a woman said, then she is master of his domain.
I would ask these questions of myself and his intentions . . ASAP. But, that is me and I hold myself to myself.
If it looks too good to be true . . it probably isn't. We err, all of us.
"he is behaving like he should not question"
In this place, if I were in your situation . . red flags would be waving, horns honking, light flashing . . . I'm human, I err, why is he "acting" like I am a goddess?
It doesn't look true . . it looks submissive, subserviant. It looks as though he will just give me whatever I want for his own purpose . . what is that purpose? To have a place to call your own? Is it yours if you're the underdog, living up to HER wishes. To have regular rumbles in the hay without having to put forth effort? What?
For what purpose would a man be pretending to be whippped like a dog, if he's not?
Why, if I'm not God, would you do this?
Perhaps, this is how the Virgo loves, in most cases, but, that's not how they are percieved by me, in this scenerio.
"My Virgo has been giving me the best of his attention and care since I declared my deep feelings."
Since, the key word . . SINCE . . you've declared your feelings . . not before. And suddenly, you're on a pedalstool and can do no wrong.
If you had a girlfriend who was living this situation, how would you percieve that? Would it be bordering on a false sense of emotions? Would it seem suspect to you that NOW this man is all loving and shit . . would that not appear false if you weren't involved?
Why on a pedalstool? Why not just treat me normal, I would ask of myself while trying to discern whether his intentions were true. There must be some kind of gain for a person to just agree blindly . . what is that gain?
Is it because once declaration was made of love, now I'm a queen, a Goddess, who has no faults? Does he believe I have transcended above humanity, or, is there an ulterior motive? Either way . . is that being real, or, playing on my feelings?
An equal, gentlemen . . we want equality . . not dominance, and that is what it is, isn't it? If a man just agreed with everything a woman said, then she is master of his domain.
I would ask these questions of myself and his intentions . . ASAP. But, that is me and I hold myself to myself.
If it looks too good to be true . . it probably isn't. We err, all of us.
"he is behaving like he should not question"
In this place, if I were in your situation . . red flags would be waving, horns honking, light flashing . . . I'm human, I err, why is he "acting" like I am a goddess?
It doesn't look true . . it looks submissive, subserviant. It looks as though he will just give me whatever I want for his own purpose . . what is that purpose? To have a place to call your own? Is it yours if you're the underdog, living up to HER wishes. To have regular rumbles in the hay without having to put forth effort? What?
For what purpose would a man be pretending to be whippped like a dog, if he's not?
Why, if I'm not God, would you do this?
Perhaps, this is how the Virgo loves, in most cases, but, that's not how they are percieved by me, in this scenerio.
Pretty much a perfect match for the Aries . . someone to push around who'll not even take the abuse, but, feel pride in it.
SG- You know the situation that you're in and the people that you and he are better than anyone else on this forum, so you'll know what's best. I agree that just dumping someone because you don't like how someone treats you may never lead to successful relationships, but I tend to come from the view that you will NEVER change another person. The only person you can change is yourself. So if you don't like how someone treats you and you've spoken with them about it to no avail, then you can either move on or change your own perspective and accept them for who they are.
I can't speak for your guy, but knowing how *I* am, I would probably wait until I had the "green light" so to speak before showing someone how I felt about them and giving them my all. So your telling him of your feelings might have been all the encouragement he needed to feel comfortable enought to show you how he feels.
Good luck with everything.
I can't speak for your guy, but knowing how *I* am, I would probably wait until I had the "green light" so to speak before showing someone how I felt about them and giving them my all. So your telling him of your feelings might have been all the encouragement he needed to feel comfortable enought to show you how he feels.
Good luck with everything.
scopiogoat,
No, he has not given me any response yet, neither verbal nor in writing.
P-Angel,
I am actually happy with his behavior (except the invisible line). Every action creates a reaction. I told him how I felt for him, and if this is how he reacts, then I am okay. I shoud be grateful that I havenot gotten something else. Indeed, I feel like I am surrounded by his unconditional love and understanding. Even though it is a bit overwhelming (maybe since we are not used to that), it is very comforting. It's like you are becoming a part of him, he is internalizing you and would like to be one with you. You feel the power and generosity of love. And you see that the thing you have given him is the reason why all these are happening. It is you, that made this. This is the best feeling I have ever had.
I understand that what I say might seem the complete opposition to you thoughts, but no. This is my perception and to tell you the truth, I was so charmed by his behavior that I could never have thought the things you said. You have opened me another window. You might be right in telling that what he does and what he feels might not be the same. But still, if that is how he is, then he is welcome.
branh0913 and leo/virgo75,
No, dumpin' him certainly is not an option I am just trying to understand the facts that are holding him back. He may need some more time, some more clarity (he might be thinking that us working at the same place could create problems for example). I am sure he has thousands of other things to count before he takes the next step. I just wondered if there are others who is experiencing this, or is it just my worries?
No, he has not given me any response yet, neither verbal nor in writing.
P-Angel,
I am actually happy with his behavior (except the invisible line). Every action creates a reaction. I told him how I felt for him, and if this is how he reacts, then I am okay. I shoud be grateful that I havenot gotten something else. Indeed, I feel like I am surrounded by his unconditional love and understanding. Even though it is a bit overwhelming (maybe since we are not used to that), it is very comforting. It's like you are becoming a part of him, he is internalizing you and would like to be one with you. You feel the power and generosity of love. And you see that the thing you have given him is the reason why all these are happening. It is you, that made this. This is the best feeling I have ever had.
I understand that what I say might seem the complete opposition to you thoughts, but no. This is my perception and to tell you the truth, I was so charmed by his behavior that I could never have thought the things you said. You have opened me another window. You might be right in telling that what he does and what he feels might not be the same. But still, if that is how he is, then he is welcome.
branh0913 and leo/virgo75,
No, dumpin' him certainly is not an option
I am just trying to understand the facts that are holding him back. He may need some more time, some more clarity (he might be thinking that us working at the same place could create problems for example). I am sure he has thousands of other things to count before he takes the next step. I just wondered if there are others who is experiencing this, or is it just my worries?"my virguy has been agreeing with me since the day we met so this does not apply to my situation too much ..."
So, has mine . . what does that mean?
"so I think maybe this is just the way he is and I like him for being kind and nice... maybe he will show more of himself after we get closer given that the politeness usually go away after a while after a relationship evolve into more than a friendship..."
I'm still waiting . . it's been over 24 years . . and STILL . . just acceptance, obediance, not questioning. Sometimes, when patience runs thin, there will be an explosion, but, it's not aimed at anything in particular, just a pot that's boiled over . . it could be for a minor infraction, there's no direction of venting emotions if every decision is made by someone else . . chaos . . while a major infraction could take place, but, at that time, the pot was only simmering . . nothing, no reaction at that time, eventhough the situation was huge . . just whatever is told to them . . because they have control of their emotions and won't express them because acceptance of the other person is a mature thing to do . . that is, until the pot boils over again . . and who knows what will be the icing on the cake . . a fingernail broke.
There's no meaning to views . . they go nowhere, because they belong to another.
Seems directionless to me, to only react according to your own inability to suffer further with such resolve in the control of emotions - and not the severity of the incident. To view it as, 'I'll just endure her bitching (whatever) until I explode', attitude, but, not really understanding why something is important to her . . . will never be acceptable as a trusting guide to me. That's not real . . that 'lead' goes nowhere . . except uncontrolled bursts, inbetween stagnation.
I know my path . . and venturing aimlessly isn't a road I want to take . . the reason why I know in my heart, I must part ways with my Virgo . . he's lead goes nowhere except accepting me no matter what . . it has hindered my growth because my partner is blinded to my inequities.
But, then again, I expect more from people, then they can deliver in most cases . . I expect them to be true. And that is my biggest downfall in life . . for, most people, have no clue as to who they really are, so how can it possibly be delivered?
So, has mine . . what does that mean?
"so I think maybe this is just the way he is and I like him for being kind and nice... maybe he will show more of himself after we get closer given that the politeness usually go away after a while after a relationship evolve into more than a friendship..."
I'm still waiting . . it's been over 24 years . . and STILL . . just acceptance, obediance, not questioning. Sometimes, when patience runs thin, there will be an explosion, but, it's not aimed at anything in particular, just a pot that's boiled over . . it could be for a minor infraction, there's no direction of venting emotions if every decision is made by someone else . . chaos . . while a major infraction could take place, but, at that time, the pot was only simmering . . nothing, no reaction at that time, eventhough the situation was huge . . just whatever is told to them . . because they have control of their emotions and won't express them because acceptance of the other person is a mature thing to do . . that is, until the pot boils over again . . and who knows what will be the icing on the cake . . a fingernail broke.
There's no meaning to views . . they go nowhere, because they belong to another.
Seems directionless to me, to only react according to your own inability to suffer further with such resolve in the control of emotions - and not the severity of the incident. To view it as, 'I'll just endure her bitching (whatever) until I explode', attitude, but, not really understanding why something is important to her . . . will never be acceptable as a trusting guide to me. That's not real . . that 'lead' goes nowhere . . except uncontrolled bursts, inbetween stagnation.
I know my path . . and venturing aimlessly isn't a road I want to take . . the reason why I know in my heart, I must part ways with my Virgo . . he's lead goes nowhere except accepting me no matter what . . it has hindered my growth because my partner is blinded to my inequities.
But, then again, I expect more from people, then they can deliver in most cases . . I expect them to be true. And that is my biggest downfall in life . . for, most people, have no clue as to who they really are, so how can it possibly be delivered?
This is great stuff . . and the beauty of it is . . it's just an object. Not many people let another voice, without taking it to heart.
So many things, Dyr and others have said to me, where it was something I was lacking within my scope . . I'm thankful that there are others (all the Virgo's and some of the other lurkers in here) who can relate in a way that's contrary to the sparkles of the outer-skin.
We go deep, so should the angles.
So many things, Dyr and others have said to me, where it was something I was lacking within my scope . . I'm thankful that there are others (all the Virgo's and some of the other lurkers in here) who can relate in a way that's contrary to the sparkles of the outer-skin.
We go deep, so should the angles.
"fishes are too slipery .."
And, Archer . . I spend a gross amount of time, slicking it up . . so, how ludicrious would a person have to be to be proud of that shit?
And, Archer . . I spend a gross amount of time, slicking it up . . so, how ludicrious would a person have to be to be proud of that shit?
The irony of your statment, archer, is we're both already authors.
Together? We'd probably spend all our time, disputing . . maybe if what we wrote was structured in Good Cop/Bad Cop mode.
Together? We'd probably spend all our time, disputing . . maybe if what we wrote was structured in Good Cop/Bad Cop mode.
I agree the only person I can change is myself. I have been doing that. And you know what, I do realize that although I'm honest and straight forward, when it comes to hurting loved one's feelings, I "dance" around what I say and I "hold back". So maybe this is not his problem but our problems. I have the same trait . vgurl made me realized this a few days ago... got to assert myself timely for the sake of our relationship.
don't be sad. 80 percent of all the choices we make if motivated by fear. it changes our perception, it changes our behavior, it changes our reactivity. it changes our state into becoming paranoid self-preservation that will contaminate any relationships we get into.
maybe right now you are starting to think that all men that you met are losers because you met inappropriate ones such as the man you're dealing with right now. tthis is getting more exciting because you are growing. you are learning to know more about yourself and what you need/want in a partner so never settle for less and i'm sure you know how you should be treated. have some boundaries get to know your real tastes and don't simply listen to the you in you that always say you can't stand alone. it's better to be alone than long to be with someone who only cause you misery.
don't be sad. 80 percent of all the choices we make if motivated by fear. it changes our perception, it changes our behavior, it changes our reactivity. it changes our state into becoming paranoid self-preservation that will contaminate any relationships we get into.
maybe right now you are starting to think that all men that you met are losers because you met inappropriate ones such as the man you're dealing with right now. tthis is getting more exciting because you are growing. you are learning to know more about yourself and what you need/want in a partner so never settle for less and i'm sure you know how you should be treated. have some boundaries get to know your real tastes and don't simply listen to the you in you that always say you can't stand alone. it's better to be alone than long to be with someone who only cause you misery.
"I'm excited about the growing knowledge of myself and others"
Me too . . even when we're not expecting it, watching the growth in someone else could spawn a new direction for ourselves.
Me too . . even when we're not expecting it, watching the growth in someone else could spawn a new direction for ourselves.
i have reading over this thread and pondering my virgo guy 'relationship' and i have to say i disagree -- about the 'change yourself for them' rationale....
you shouldn't change yourself for anyone or anything.... especially if you are a fully formed adult with built-in morals, ideals, dreams, etc. in place.... you can't "change" yourself to be something the Virgo guy wants....
for one thing, you don't know what he wants cuz he can't even tell you what he wants!!!
Virgos are deep and analytical, but messed up.... on the onehand when it's early on in the relationship and they are pursuing you, they are sweet, wonderful, pursuing, fun....
then you tell them how you feel about them -- i love you or i want to see you or be with you, etc... whatever...
all of a sudden, they don't respond as often, they are silent strangers, etc...
I have realized IT'S NOT ME -- IT's THEM -- they are the ones who need to change.... or become REAL like they want everyone else to be, instead they become CLOSED OFF and CUT YOU OFF.....
Scopiogoat -- has he responded to you about meeting you for your b-day? that's a pretty big thing.... don't you think... what is his problem that he can't respond? Sorry, i think that's being mean, not a nice surprise.... but he just can't figure it out for himself --i guess he's torn and he shouldn't be, right?
Anyway, just my two cents...
you shouldn't change yourself for anyone or anything.... especially if you are a fully formed adult with built-in morals, ideals, dreams, etc. in place.... you can't "change" yourself to be something the Virgo guy wants....
for one thing, you don't know what he wants cuz he can't even tell you what he wants!!!
Virgos are deep and analytical, but messed up.... on the onehand when it's early on in the relationship and they are pursuing you, they are sweet, wonderful, pursuing, fun....
then you tell them how you feel about them -- i love you or i want to see you or be with you, etc... whatever...
all of a sudden, they don't respond as often, they are silent strangers, etc...
I have realized IT'S NOT ME -- IT's THEM -- they are the ones who need to change.... or become REAL like they want everyone else to be, instead they become CLOSED OFF and CUT YOU OFF.....
Scopiogoat -- has he responded to you about meeting you for your b-day? that's a pretty big thing.... don't you think... what is his problem that he can't respond? Sorry, i think that's being mean, not a nice surprise.... but he just can't figure it out for himself --i guess he's torn and he shouldn't be, right?
Anyway, just my two cents...
Hell I'm just logical, and emotional stuff is cool with me; I just like playing and not taking it as deeply and as quickly as another sign. I like playing with the idea of love, and knowing that she loves me no matta what! But being close is hard becuase I haven't had a touchy feely warm, and life affirming childhood; for me it was a fight, one of mental wits, and acuity. being sentimental, and soft is inviting pain in my logical state of thought; I also am not cofortable with physical sensations.
also, consider his childhood, his roots. people blew in and out of my life so it just naturally enhanced my detatchability. I hold no one man to no one thing. people can do what they want regardless of your feelings and probably damned well will, so that's it.
i have reading over this thread and pondering my virgo guy 'relationship' and i have to say i disagree -- about the 'change yourself for them' rationale....
you shouldn't change yourself for anyone or anything.... especially if you are a fully formed adult with built-in morals, ideals, dreams, etc. in place.... you can't "change" yourself to be something the Virgo guy wants....
for one thing, you don't know what he wants cuz he can't even tell you what he wants!!!
Virgos are deep and analytical, but messed up.... on the onehand when it's early on in the relationship and they are pursuing you, they are sweet, wonderful, pursuing, fun....
then you tell them how you feel about them -- i love you or i want to see you or be with you, etc... whatever...
all of a sudden, they don't respond as often, they are silent strangers, etc...
I have realized IT'S NOT ME -- IT's THEM -- they are the ones who need to change.... or become REAL like they want everyone else to be, instead they become CLOSED OFF and CUT YOU OFF.....
i don't need to impress anybody here just to save my a $ $ by being a virgo, but i admit i am one of these people. in my past experience, i test my potential partners and even my ex boyfriends how far can they go or fight for me. i realized that it was me who needs help. i don't know what i want, and even if i doo think know what i want i'm always confused. worried. scared. full of regrets. i dint jump into any relationships and i even kissed dating goodbye after all these. then i met my leo, i once again opened my heart and did alot of growing up by swallowing my pride. it works, and it's more fun when you stop pretending afraid that you might lose your partner the next day. i had a more fulfilling, (it's best to talk things through with your partner though because that's the only way it can give you peace) intense relationship with my spouse.
you shouldn't change yourself for anyone or anything.... especially if you are a fully formed adult with built-in morals, ideals, dreams, etc. in place.... you can't "change" yourself to be something the Virgo guy wants....
for one thing, you don't know what he wants cuz he can't even tell you what he wants!!!
Virgos are deep and analytical, but messed up.... on the onehand when it's early on in the relationship and they are pursuing you, they are sweet, wonderful, pursuing, fun....
then you tell them how you feel about them -- i love you or i want to see you or be with you, etc... whatever...
all of a sudden, they don't respond as often, they are silent strangers, etc...
I have realized IT'S NOT ME -- IT's THEM -- they are the ones who need to change.... or become REAL like they want everyone else to be, instead they become CLOSED OFF and CUT YOU OFF.....
i don't need to impress anybody here just to save my a $ $ by being a virgo, but i admit i am one of these people. in my past experience, i test my potential partners and even my ex boyfriends how far can they go or fight for me. i realized that it was me who needs help. i don't know what i want, and even if i doo think know what i want i'm always confused. worried. scared. full of regrets. i dint jump into any relationships and i even kissed dating goodbye after all these. then i met my leo, i once again opened my heart and did alot of growing up by swallowing my pride. it works, and it's more fun when you stop pretending afraid that you might lose your partner the next day. i had a more fulfilling, (it's best to talk things through with your partner though because that's the only way it can give you peace) intense relationship with my spouse.
"i'm always confused. worried. scared. full of regrets"
vgurl, perhaps, we all do that. There's no absolution when relating to another, for another person can't be directed to live up our expectations . . we can only live up to ourselves.
vgurl, perhaps, we all do that. There's no absolution when relating to another, for another person can't be directed to live up our expectations . . we can only live up to ourselves.
we can only live up to ourselves.
as good as it gets.
sometimes getting real with ourself and to others especially to the one we love/the one who matters most to us. it's the only thing that can bring us peace. me and my husband fight over petty things, that leave scars in our hearts but i love him and i love my family, he doesn't want to let go of me, neither do i, no matter how painful is it.
perhaps, if ever there comes a time that he chooses to cheat on me by having an affair, that's the time i'll give up on our marriage. it's a different thing already, below the belt.
i've been betrayed by my ex-lovers (virgo and sag) they had an affair, i understand that men are not monogamous, but there are also possibility that not all men are the same there can still be some who can be monogamous or celibate.
as long as the problem evolves within us, then there's always a reason to negotiate it and live up with the union with have for better or worse.
as good as it gets.
sometimes getting real with ourself and to others especially to the one we love/the one who matters most to us. it's the only thing that can bring us peace. me and my husband fight over petty things, that leave scars in our hearts but i love him and i love my family, he doesn't want to let go of me, neither do i, no matter how painful is it.
perhaps, if ever there comes a time that he chooses to cheat on me by having an affair, that's the time i'll give up on our marriage. it's a different thing already, below the belt.
i've been betrayed by my ex-lovers (virgo and sag) they had an affair, i understand that men are not monogamous, but there are also possibility that not all men are the same there can still be some who can be monogamous or celibate.
as long as the problem evolves within us, then there's always a reason to negotiate it and live up with the union with have for better or worse.
vgurl -- YES there are many men out there that are NOT cheaters -- that ARE Monogamous -- and just because your H is a man does not mean he will cheat on you --- it depends on the man and his basic morals and values i think... cuz if he loves you and the family, he will not want to lose that, unless it's already gone in his mind/heart...
anyway, i should start a new thread -- but maybe i will ask it here -- don't you think that people never leave a relationship/marriage or partnership unless they have another person lined up (or have been having an affair with someone or feel in love/lust or infatuated with someone and think they may have some kind of future with them)? I think it is a RARE situation if it exists at all (unless they are being totally abused and beaten) that a Man or Woman leaves w/o having someone else that they are going to....
anyway, i should start a new thread -- but maybe i will ask it here -- don't you think that people never leave a relationship/marriage or partnership unless they have another person lined up (or have been having an affair with someone or feel in love/lust or infatuated with someone and think they may have some kind of future with them)? I think it is a RARE situation if it exists at all (unless they are being totally abused and beaten) that a Man or Woman leaves w/o having someone else that they are going to....
don't you think that people never leave a relationship/marriage or partnership unless they have another person lined up (or have been having an affair with someone or feel in love/lust or infatuated with someone and think they may have some kind of future with them)?
yes because nowadays (especially when you compare it from the good ol' days when things are just pretty simple. that when they say they love someone they really mean it and earn that love even if that means fighting for it, painful adjustments). makes me think about my grandparents and parents. the love they have for each other.
people are so afraid to be alone even if that mean comparing the one they've got to another, people these days are not contented with what they have, and have tendencies to be ungrateful for their partners.
"he will not want to lose that, unless it's already gone in his mind/heart..."
what you feed your mind is the result of our own perceptions and actions.
yes because nowadays (especially when you compare it from the good ol' days when things are just pretty simple. that when they say they love someone they really mean it and earn that love even if that means fighting for it, painful adjustments). makes me think about my grandparents and parents. the love they have for each other.
people are so afraid to be alone even if that mean comparing the one they've got to another, people these days are not contented with what they have, and have tendencies to be ungrateful for their partners.
"he will not want to lose that, unless it's already gone in his mind/heart..."
what you feed your mind is the result of our own perceptions and actions.
"he will not want to lose that, unless it's already gone in his mind/heart..."
what you feed your mind is the result of our own perceptions and actions.
perhaps, that's the reason why i see a person (esp a man) when choosing a long term partner or rather know someone's personality from how he behaves -- mentally. his words and actions as well.
if he's been all mocked up with all the confusions, worries, doubts, fears, misery, womanizer. doesn't know what he want in life, even if he does he fear he may not have it or he doesn't deserve to be happy, then our relationship won;t last because this issue will keep pressing as years and months go by because that's already his behavior.
this will give me a choice if i i will have to live with it by taking the job on how i can take away all these to him and leave be very draining and tiring and i will end up losing myself and my sanity.
i admire men who can stand up for me when i am confused, worried and scared, because after all, that's the way they should be.
what you feed your mind is the result of our own perceptions and actions.
perhaps, that's the reason why i see a person (esp a man) when choosing a long term partner or rather know someone's personality from how he behaves -- mentally. his words and actions as well.
if he's been all mocked up with all the confusions, worries, doubts, fears, misery, womanizer. doesn't know what he want in life, even if he does he fear he may not have it or he doesn't deserve to be happy, then our relationship won;t last because this issue will keep pressing as years and months go by because that's already his behavior.
this will give me a choice if i i will have to live with it by taking the job on how i can take away all these to him and leave be very draining and tiring and i will end up losing myself and my sanity.
i admire men who can stand up for me when i am confused, worried and scared, because after all, that's the way they should be.
yes, i think particularly in long-term relationships, after awhile we tend to take our partners for granted at times....
yes, relationships have become more like our society in general -- they toss away - get a new one mindset, rather than fix, repair in the days of our parents..
if it doesn't work or if it is too difficult to get to work or if it needs repair its just easier to toss it and buy/get new one....
being in a relationship for over 20 years i know it's incredibly hard/difficult at times and you definitely have times when you are not happy and don't like that other person, the key is if you can get back to the love or closeness connection somehow, then you'll be okay, if not, then you suffer in silence or have affair...
it's hard....
yes, relationships have become more like our society in general -- they toss away - get a new one mindset, rather than fix, repair in the days of our parents..
if it doesn't work or if it is too difficult to get to work or if it needs repair its just easier to toss it and buy/get new one....
being in a relationship for over 20 years i know it's incredibly hard/difficult at times and you definitely have times when you are not happy and don't like that other person, the key is if you can get back to the love or closeness connection somehow, then you'll be okay, if not, then you suffer in silence or have affair...
it's hard....
i wonder why it's hard for people not to make their relationships work. does it also mean that they don't know how to deal with themselves either?
honestly, i haven't thought of having an affair even if that affair is platonic or just a casual flirting thing ever since i got married.
for men, i can't speak for them.
honestly, i haven't thought of having an affair even if that affair is platonic or just a casual flirting thing ever since i got married.
for men, i can't speak for them.
then you must be happy and satisfied in your relationship, cuz i think that is truly why people have affairs -- they are lonely, unhappy and not being fulfilled in some way in their relationship - so they seek what is missing outside it...
but yeah, men do seem to be more prevalent in the 'affair' department -- but society is a'changin -- women are having more affairs what with being out in the working world and being around men all day.....
anyway, relationships are hard and marriage is difficult...
do you think we were meant to be with someone for 40 60 or 80 years? i dunno...
i think life expectancies were only to 40 in old days... so maybe we should change partnerships/relationships every 20 years -- maybe would be easier, happier.... but for the kids.... ha!
but yeah, men do seem to be more prevalent in the 'affair' department -- but society is a'changin -- women are having more affairs what with being out in the working world and being around men all day.....
anyway, relationships are hard and marriage is difficult...
do you think we were meant to be with someone for 40 60 or 80 years? i dunno...
i think life expectancies were only to 40 in old days... so maybe we should change partnerships/relationships every 20 years -- maybe would be easier, happier.... but for the kids.... ha!
Happy new year to everyone!
I just wanted to take a moment and let you know that on the new year's eve, I got the best present from my Virgo: A sweet kiss on the cheek! (I am thrilled because we have known each other just over a year and this was our first physical contact ever).
P.S.: The line was still there, because he hesitated for a second. But he kissed and _ suddenly realized that the line was not there "for me", it was something he draw "for himself".
I just wanted to take a moment and let you know that on the new year's eve, I got the best present from my Virgo: A sweet kiss on the cheek! (I am thrilled because we have known each other just over a year and this was our first physical contact ever).
P.S.: The line was still there, because he hesitated for a second. But he kissed and _ suddenly realized that the line was not there "for me", it was something he draw "for himself".
I've heard in some cultures they kiss on the cheek three times, (and I do not understand how do they manage to stop themselves after that, LOL)
The kiss was very sweet, but what I really wanted was a hug. A big, warm hug lasting for a couple of minutes... I'll go for that for the next time!
The kiss was very sweet, but what I really wanted was a hug. A big, warm hug lasting for a couple of minutes... I'll go for that for the next time!
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