hot & cold

Yeah, I'm getting it. It was about time I say...

Mr. Virgo got really sentimental towards me after I sent a book for his father and contacted him a few times offering help while he was away taking care of his dad. Before he was back from his last trip (2 weeks ago), I had a small incident, which I hurt my arm and I told him that. When he was back he was soo kind and asking me every day how was I and he was telling me how to keep my arm rested etc. It was wonderful. Then, last week we had two conversations which I teased him and made him laugh like little kids. He was so relaxed and comfortable. But the next day whatever happened, happened with him and when I emailed him for something, he acted completely cold towards me. He said he was busy so I said "I understand, see u later" and he said "Thanks I appreciate, bye". (He always says he's busy online but when I say "Ok I let you work then" he goes "No problem, I can talk" but this time he said "thanks, bye"). Same thing happened yesterday. He was online and I dropped him a message (but not immediately, after like an hour later) and he was like "Oh, i did not see you". Then I started to talk and tried to cheer him up (not sure but I thought he might have been down for some other reason). He said he was just resting and then asked me how I was and I started to tell him about my latest project and how excited I am but he did not show much interest. He was gone after 10 mins without even saying bye. I felt like a total stranger.

I know all this is normal. So I am not worried, He was either really busy, or down, or panicked of coming closer. (We were planning to go out this week, but we had to cancel after I hurt my arm). And I know it will last for a while. All I need to do is to give him assurance, stay calm and get busy with other things.

shaking my head

Cause you're and you're cold
you're yes and you're no
you're in than you're out
you're up than you're down...

Lol Katy Perry is a Scorpio and I'm pretty sure the guy she sang about was a Virgo.


Are you guys an item now gemmygem?

Well, i dont like the word "item". We're now just two people who care about each other.

i dont mean i want his attention on me completely all the time, thats too much. and i dont like being too dependent on someones affection. i just wanted to say when a virgo does hot & cold, for whatever reason, it's obvious and interesting because it happens all of a sudden, not gradually.

lol

Wow you certainly have alot of patience with this one!!! But keep posting, I'm following and best of luck you might end up with a Denny V ending...(but that almost made me puke!!) lol

You're right, it looks like this is going to be a looooong story...

I sent him an email last night telling him sorry if I was too pushy in the past week, I just wanted to understand if he was ok not. I said I won't be around for a while (I am helping a friend to set up a new business, and my evenings are almost full) but if you need anything please let me know. No reply. Then, this morning we saw each other in a customer meeting just by coincidence. I was talking to a lady in the room right before the meeting started and suddenly I heard someone calling me behind. I turned my head and saw him smiling at me. He was just coming in and he came straight up to me although there were several other people in the room that he knew much longer & better. His smile was so bright and he was looking at me very deeply, I mean, it was like he had locked his eyes to mine. It was soo heavy! Oh and he almost touched my shoulder (I was sitting and he was standing, so he approached and hold my chair behind my back and stretched his arm towards my shoulder but then pulled it back). He asked how I was, we exchanged just a few words but I was completely shocked so could not talk much. I said talk to you later and got back to my conversation. He sat two seats next to me and I felt during the meeting he was glancing at me from time to time. He was also looking very tired.

Unfortunately I had to leave early to catch up another meeting. I did not want him to think that I was pulling away, therefore I sent him a short message on my way telling that I was sorry for not being able to stay and hope he is fine. Guess what. No reply to that either.

He is definitely caring and interested, I can feel it without any doubt. But why he is not returning my calls, and sometimes acting soo distant. This, I think I will never fully understand, even though I can learn to live with it.

If a Virgo likes you, where does he show it better: when you are alone or when you are surrounded with many people?

I agree with starfish and I also feel he's ambivalent because he's not interested in anything but what he wants which seems like nothing from you. I would suggest you stop chasing him with the emails and text messages, he's not replying so why keep messaging, I'm sure the rejection has to sting only for him to turn around and make it seem like he's interested again, he's feeding you crumbs, yuck, returning messages/contact would be an implication of interest in you and that seems to be part of what he's avoiding.

bit like dejavu from this end.....yep, knowing what I know now? Id not chase, Id not make a single effort more.

Anybody who simply does not reply for whatever reason does NOT deserve you chasing even more so, thats just contemptuous....WTF? You say you can learn to live with him being distant? oh please...you will NEVER learn to live with it, you will stew and stew each and everytime...again, somebody who is interested/cares does NOT leave you hanging time and time again.

Take it from me, the biggest emotionally unavailable man chaser....Ive learnt the hard way. This does not at all sound like an easy "relationship" and I say go where it is easy. You shouldnt have to chase a man anyway, not like you have been doing but like me and dozens and dozens of other women you will have to learn the hard way.

What you describe above is not so much a Virgo trait but that of a man who simply isnt interested in anymore than what he wants when HE wants it. He will ALWAYS control the relationship unless you decide enough is enough and walk away. He will either let you go if he didnt feel anymore for you or he will step up to the plate and show what he is made of...problem is most of us dont want to risk it but as Ive learnt what are we really risking by walking away? NOTHING because no longer will we sit there waiting for THAT call or THAT text that simply wont come anyway, we'll be getting on with our great lives not coming on this site asking why is he doing this and that because we'll be enjoying being without them. Are you really enjoying this rollercoaster?

Why should you learn to live with something you dont like or understand? why should you change who you are to keep him?

Blah

Great words of wisdom Chatz, I will also make sure I take this all into account personally next time round...to avoid being hurt like last time🙂

Amen Chatz...powerful words of wisdom

Sorry I was too quick to jump into a conclusion -again-. I said this was going to be long one.

This Virguy really keeps me guessing! He did not reply immediately and I was almost sure that he would not but he texted me at midnight! It's a pretty long message, he says he is sorry for the weekend that he was not available to talk much and he promises to make time for me next time. He also says he and his friends from work went to a bd party right after the meeting and he thought about inviting me too if I had stayed. Then he says he knows it's late but he wanted to reply as soon as he could so that I would not worry. Nice, isn't it? 🙂

After I read your comments last night I thought I should not have sent that message, then this text came in and I was puzzled again. I am not sure what exactly I did or did not do, I was just who I was but it looks like it is working -at least for now- and he is cool with the way things flow...

gemmygem your so full of shit, you do this all the time, this back and forth crap because you don't want to admit he's not replying to you, you make so many excuses for his crappy behavior towards you, do you honestly believe that we believe you, well I don't, can't really speak for anyone else. Let's say he did text you, he text you at midnight when most people would be in bed, he says he's sorry like he always seem to do yet never backs his apology up with a tangible lunch date away from work or any activity away from work, he's not physically in your life in any sort of way and doesn't appear to be interested in you or your life at all, him texting at midnight is rude and unless you stop being desperate you will continue to get played.

and he "thought" about inviting you? had he given you real thought he would have text you prior to going because he WANTED you to be his guest but he CHOSE not to and then gives you the afterthought...Ive heard all those stories myself...Im the queen of gobbling up those crumbs but not anymore 🙂

They're just enough stories to keep you hooked, keep you hoping.....wake up he's not treating you right

Yeah Chatz, this is great advice! Why dont you post it on relationships for all to see. It really needs to have it's own thread as so many here are in this type of relationship!

tiki, I do not have to convince you but all this is real. I have this guy in my world, him and everything that's going on between us is my reality. Yes, I am like a ping pong ball but I dont like being this way, neither do i like what happens. Many times I feel insecure and almost an idiot after I read what people write here, then he makes something that sooths my heart. I know it might be a mistake to trust him but I want to trust him, part of me says be careful and the other part says he's true... He's just being himself, but I am an impatient person and I am questioning everything. So maybe I am the problem when I feel down because of him. I should not be(and this is exactly what Chatz's trying to say I think).

I saw him again yesterday afternoon for like 5 minutes and he did another thing for the first time. When we talked, he held my hand and caressed. I was about to die! I could not speak any word. He was just so friendly, nice and respectful. His hands were so soft that I did not want to leave. He asked me how I was and if I needed anything and when I said "I am fine" he asked "Are you sure?". Then he said he must go.

He looks like he's tired (because of work probably) and he also appears to have lost some weight and I am worried about him. I think he knows it and therefore he tries to put on a happy face when he's around.

I'm beginning to think I'm interpreting you and your issue all wrong gemmygem, maybe your here to vent moreso than get help, it's your choice how you deal with him, if your happy chasing and waiting well that is all that matters.

you've gotten some really great advice from tiki and chatz and i suggest you take them. otherwise don't get upset when he's treating you like shit because that's all he really is doing. he's a dick for continually stringing you along.

What Im saying is that he's doing EXACTLY what all the emotionally unavailable men Ive dated did to me and I sat there and made excuse after excuse and ate the crumbs, those very few crumbs that kept the "relationship" alive....Now I just go out for the main course hehehe.

Why do you think he's tired? work? really? do you know what he does in his spare time? do you know if he's seeing anybody else? perhaps he's tired coz he's dating multiple women? It does get tiring for them too sometimes LOL.

I dont know, you seem to be where I was so many months ago - making excuses for bad behaviour instead of going out and enjoying your life. You're in awe of him and thats not a healthy place to be - you couldnt speak coz he touched your hand? you're just smitten and you're going to get your heart broken.....its your choice though but again, knowing what I know now? Id not settle for one man, Id be dating and dating which of course does NOT mean sleeping with multiple men but it means getting on with life, not waiting for crumbs to fall at your feet when HE's good and ready.

Why does he not call you just for no reason? why doesnt he reply to your calls/texts? who does that? commitment phobic men do that

Venting?? I dont think that I vent more than anybody else on this board. Im just trying to understand the guy and share my experience, good or bad.

Some of you questioned that him only "thinking" about inviting me to the birthday party of his friend is not good. Well, I learned from him that he was invited there as well just the day that we coincidentally met at that meeting. So he could not let me know in advance. Even if he did, I suspect he would invite me because it was more like a private thing, there would only be people from his company. Im thinking that he had the idea after he saw me in the room, maybe thats why he came to me directly but I was talking to that lady so he did not have the chance to ask. He decided to wait for the end of the meeting but then I left early.

Posted by Chatz
What Im saying is that he's doing EXACTLY what all the emotionally unavailable men Ive dated did to me and I sat there and made excuse after excuse and ate the crumbs, those very few crumbs that kept the "relationship" alive....Now I just go out for the main course hehehe.

Why do you think he's tired? work? really? do you know what he does in his spare time? do you know if he's seeing anybody else? perhaps he's tired coz he's dating multiple women? It does get tiring for them too sometimes LOL.

I dont know, you seem to be where I was so many months ago - making excuses for bad behaviour instead of going out and enjoying your life. You're in awe of him and thats not a healthy place to be - you couldnt speak coz he touched your hand? you're just smitten and you're going to get your heart broken.....its your choice though but again, knowing what I know now? Id not settle for one man, Id be dating and dating which of course does NOT mean sleeping with multiple men but it means getting on with life, not waiting for crumbs to fall at your feet when HE's good and ready.

Why does he not call you just for no reason? why doesnt he reply to your calls/texts? who does that? commitment phobic men do that

I dont know if hes seeing anyone, but I know he does not have any steady GF or fiance, I did my research on that long ago 🙂

Maybe he does see some people but i am sure not multiple women at a time. Hes most likely tired because of work, I heard that from his colleagues and his manager several times and he often works at home at night catching up with his emails, reviewing reports, etc.

When he goes out and later we talk, he always says he was with a group of friends, he never mentioned going out with someone alone. And he spends many Fri/Sat nights at home (I see him online and he says hes either working or resting). Hes been also spending a lot of his time lately with his family. And he did not go on a vacation or does not make any plans for one soon, I asked about it.

Yes, he does not call me for no reason, and thats what makes me worry the most. It's the missing element in this picture and if Im still holding my guard and not falling for him completely (although im smitten) its because of it.

He replies to my calls/ texts in delay and if he can not respond, he always mentions that in a later conversation showing that he did not forget

you know what? My last crazy "relationship" was like this....he was always tired, he was always busy when I got a little too emotionally involved...he kept his distance and all that did was make me come on stronger.

You know what else? he was online every night too but you know what else? he was on every damned singles site and chatting to every other woman but me. He was tired because he'd be toying with them until 2.00am and then had to get up at 6.00 to go to work. We even IM'd eachother at work - it was great til I got too attached, then he distanced himself and Im assuming chatting with other women at the same time..new ones, ones that werent attached.

NO man who loves you and/or wants you around is TOO tired to give you a quick chat and ask how your day was and tell you how his day was, no man who cares about you tells you he couldnt reply to your calls/texts that very same day....if he truly cared/loved you he would stop at NOTHING to make contact with you. He wouldnt be going out with "a group of friends" without you if he truly cared. Ive made these excuses, I know what you're doing, I felt like a complete fool when it was all spelled out to me and Im still peeling away those layers and Ive had to relearn so much thanks to somebody wonderful who showed me the way and is still showing me the way.

OMG I have to cringe at the excuses I made for these men....going out with friends? thats all well and good but do you get invited to meet friends and family? big red flag after a considerable amount of time of seeing one another...do you only see him privately? why dont you go out in public? why do you think he's online? work? puhleeeese!!!! Ive made all these excuses and I spent 6 months with the last one and you know I never met a single friend or family member, I was never invited to a party - there were always excuses as to why he would go alone. He even declined spending a single day on a long holiday weekend with me and what did he do? he stayed home alone (so he said)...he was tired of having people around him, he felt like being alone - yeah right!!!

You are so wrapped up in this man you cant even see how foolish you are being. All over the dxp boards you see these same stories (I was one of them, I openly admit that), women WAITING on me, women MAKING EXCUSES for bad contemptuous behaviour.....would we allow our friends to treat us the way we allow these men to do so? not on your life, they'd be out the door

so fast they wouldnt know what hit them....but nup, we have to go through this, we have to learn the hard way, we dont listen to good advice.

Of course he always mentions he couldnt reply straight away or even that day and that he was still thinking of you - THAT is the very thing they do...tell you they were thinking of you when in actual fact you werent even a passing thought. There you are hanging on to every damned word he says, believing with your naive ears/eyes what he's saying when in fact you know NOTHING about what he's doing with his life when you're not around. Trust me he aint sitting at home thinking of you - he's getting on with his life and you have only a very little part of his life. It wont change unless you walk away - then see what he does but Im pretty sure you wont do that. I had to and I found it was the best thing I ever did and there's no turning back 🙂

Do you really think you can do this for another 6 months? dealing with his ambivalence? his silence? his contemptuous ways? I did it for way too long, I was the fool.

If a man isnt making you an important feature in his life, if he isnt inviting you out when there's functions/things on, if he's not introducing you to his family/friends, if he's not spending time with you like YOU want he aint worth it, he isnt in it for the same reasons you are. Let him go, be free...he is only one man - look outside, there are thousands upon thousands...the world wont end nor stop because you've let him go.

Its Friday night over there right? and I bet you're sitting at home hoping/waiting for him to be online.....oh boy do I remember those days well - one even blocked me so he could chat to other women...there he was online, 3 singles sites that I knew of, online on msn (yet I was blocked) and then the following week he'd suddenly pop up coz I was online and asked if we could hook up....its just a game to these men yet you cant see it.

And you will no doubt come back with something like 'but he's such a nice guy, he's honest and sincere and I believe him when he says he's tired from work, blah blah blah'...done it, been there, seen it with my own eyes, felt the pain that one of these men can inflict.

You dont know if he's seeing anyone? of course he's seeing somebody, perhaps multiple - you will NEVER know because he will NEVER open his world to you for that to be seen - he's a first class commitment phobic man. Time to understand that before you get in any deeper.

You are NOT being impatient, you are desiring what you desire but this man clearly does not wish to give you more than a few words to keep you hanging while he goes and looks for something better - you know it but you dont want to. You say those few words soothe your heart? how the hell are you going to feel when he does find that better option and dumps you like a hot potato and you have nothing else in your life?

Not trying to be mean but I was you, like so many women on here trying to give you advice...they were you.

Chatz... You are simply amazing. It takes a strong person to dig deep within themselves and root out the things you did. Further more you took a stand and did something to change yourself for the better. Wow. VERY well done 🙂

I don't think this man is a jerk or even leading her on. I think she has such tunnel vision that she isn't seeing the big picture. I believe she is misinterpreting his actions.

Clearly Gem you like the guy but Idon't think he likes you in that way. I think he is responding to you out of being polite and trying not to hurt your feelings. You have made it very obvious that you like him ALOT (you "researched" him!!!) so he is trying to manuver through this delicate and very akward situation with some form of politeness. He probably would have no problem with having a friendship with you but your actions of chasing him will have that out the window before for long. You are coming across as very desperate and frankly creepy. That won't win him over.

I'm not trying to be mean but damn girl. Everyone is just trying to help you see the situation for what it is.

he doesn't spend weekends with you, he goes out with HIS group of friends and doesn't invite you and he mostly ignores your texts. Does this sound like a guy who is really into you?
You keep saying that he stares at you and smiles at you but you got all excited about a shoulder touch so maybe you are reading into it too much. even if he IS meaningly doing these things he still isn't backing up his actions AT ALL.
I really think you need to let it go. He's not into you.

Oh my God, Chatz I am so sorry for what you've been through...

I put a lot of thought on whats happening last night. Yes you, tiki, Gingerscorp and others are probably right, my wishes are shadowing my thoughts and im forcing myself to see things much more positive than they really are. He's aware of my interest and he's most likely been patiently waiting for me to understand that he cant be more than a friend.

I did a small test this morning: I called him for no reason (for the first time). He was driving and the line was not good so we could not speak. But he was surporised. Later, I sent a text saying "Just wanted to check. Yesterday we could not talk much and I realized you've lost some weight... Anyway, sorry, I know I sound too much like your mom sometimes 🙂". He replied about an hour later with only this: "No problem. Thanks for your concern".

That statement has cleared my thought and sealed my decision. Im going for a trip out of town tomorrow. I'll try not to think about him. In fact, I'll try to forget him.

Chatz loved loved loved your post, somebody taught you well *wink*

Gemmygem is this a break through?!! LOL I hope so, I truly hope you get on with your life and stop eating crumb cake, if this guy likes you then let him step up to the position and claim you, thus far he has not done so, that is your que to let him go on and allow other men into your life, date, go out to social functions, grab coffee, there does not have to be sex involved, there just has to be men around that make you feel good about being a beautiful woman, that is OPEN to the possibility of dating you and giving you what you deserve, this man clearly has no interest in any of that. He will constantly feed you crumbs if you eat them. You deserve more but you have to KNOW it or you invite bad men into your life, you invite mistreatment.

Tiki and chatz have hit the nail on the head with this one. We have all learned the hard way. My dad used to always tell me when I was in my early 20s, stop making excuses for these guys, if a man wants to be with you he will! There is no I'm too tired, I'm too sick, my dog ate my homework. Lol. Now at 27, it finally clicks. When a man begins making these types of excuses it is safe to say that either he does not want to be in a relationsip or he doesn't want to be in one with that woman. In either case, its best to just go on with life. As painful as it maybe...

We as women dictate what we deserve, if a woman thinks a touch on the shoulder and 1 text message every other week is all she deserves that is all she will ever get. We show men our worth by what we accept from them and if women accept mistreatment, accept being ignored, stood up, accept hot and cold behavior, accept lame excuses from men then that's all your EVER GOING TO GET.

You can only say so many times a man is a bad boy, a jerk, a commitment phobe but at some point you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you need validation from these type of men in the first place especially when there are so many good men that will treat us right. When I was going through my assclown phase I said to myself after the last assclown, yes he's bad, a psychopathic jerk, a commitment phobic emotionally unavailable clown but what does that say about me if I choose man after man after man the same kind of man, something is wrong with me for even wanting to be with a man that treats me lousy and I fixed it and haven't had to deal with it since.

I suggest to women that find themselves with men that just don't care, dig deep inside and find a way to heal and love yourself, SELF LOVE and KNOWING YOUR WORTH is the key to stay out from around these kind of men so you can graduate from emotionally unavailable commitment phobic assclown school and move on to men, real men that know how to GIVE, how to give love, how to not leave you hanging, how to be there no matter, how to give attention and mental stimulation etc etc. Stop chasing these damn men, chasing and giving to a men that don't want it for whatever reason, the more you give to these kind of men the more you chip away and kill your self esteem.

I don't care what you look like, hump on your back, skinny, fat, lonely, vulnerable, tall, short, one eye, none of it matters as long as you love yourself because if you love yourself you will never allow men to take advantage of you.

Lol @ assclown phase. Very well said tiki....its all so true!!

lol, seems like when someone mentions girl being doormat, story changes to include a romantic gesture on his part, so girl can make justification that it is alright for her to be a fool.

How are things going Gemmygem?

Wonderful Advice Tiki and Chaz! I just been through the same shit for 8 months with my newly ex Virgo! Once they act this way don't ever expect them to change their ways, cut them cold out of your life as it will only keep happening over and over like a vicious cycle. I told my Ex Virguy upon break up he had his own Mood Swing in his front Garden and I did not want to ride on it anymore lol.. He hated that comment hahaha!

Posted by gemmygem
You're right, it looks like this is going to be a looooong story...

I sent him an email last night telling him sorry if I was too pushy in the past week, I just wanted to understand if he was ok not. I said I won't be around for a while (I am helping a friend to set up a new business, and my evenings are almost full) but if you need anything please let me know. No reply. Then, this morning we saw each other in a customer meeting just by coincidence. I was talking to a lady in the room right before the meeting started and suddenly I heard someone calling me behind. I turned my head and saw him smiling at me. He was just coming in and he came straight up to me although there were several other people in the room that he knew much longer & better. His smile was so bright and he was looking at me very deeply, I mean, it was like he had locked his eyes to mine. It was soo heavy! Oh and he almost touched my shoulder (I was sitting and he was standing, so he approached and hold my chair behind my back and stretched his arm towards my shoulder but then pulled it back). He asked how I was, we exchanged just a few words but I was completely shocked so could not talk much. I said talk to you later and got back to my conversation. He sat two seats next to me and I felt during the meeting he was glancing at me from time to time. He was also looking very tired.

Unfortunately I had to leave early to catch up another meeting. I did not want him to think that I was pulling away, therefore I sent him a short message on my way telling that I was sorry for not being able to stay and hope he is fine. Guess what. No reply to that either.

He is definitely caring and interested, I can feel it without any doubt. But why he is not returning my calls, and sometimes acting soo distant. This, I think I will never fully understand, even though I can learn to live with it.

If a Virgo likes you, where does he show it better: when you are alone or when you are surrounded with many people?

the part about the meeting is funny lol...so school girly.

Posted by P-Angel
lol

looool!

Posted by gemmygem
Well, i dont like the word "item". We're now just two people who care about each other.

i dont mean i want his attention on me completely all the time, thats too much. and i dont like being too dependent on someones affection. i just wanted to say when a virgo does hot & cold, for whatever reason, it's obvious and interesting because it happens all of a sudden, not gradually.

it is interesting?...hope you dont change your mind because(it's really annoying attitude)