On course? or adrift?
This topic was created in the Virgo forum by rowing2theisland on Sunday, November 12, 2006 and has 22 replies.
I need some rational persons i.e. virgos to give me a clue as to whether or not I am on the island, on course towards the island or just adrift at sea with my virguy. From the inside and being a cancer female, I just can't see things as clearly as I'd like. And I do not want to make a move from which I can not recover.
So, the back story:
About 10 yrs ago I met the old virguy (can't call him an ex-because we were never "together"). 2 yrs into the friendship, things changed and I fell for him-hard. Then cue fast forward, with me having no clue as to how virguys worked, him dangling the carrot (and just enough fooin' around and sex) and giving just enough of himself to keep me along for the ride, and me wanting to fix him (show him he could trust women again) and 8 yrs later I was done, towel thrown in. Finito. We're still good friends and I occasionally do some contract work for him, but the fantasy is over. It was a longshot anyway, but it was worth attempting because he is basically a great guy, but he is screwed up (before the dander gets up-his words, not mine). He is 18 years my senior and divorced with two grown kids. I want kids. Not going to happen. so end of that story...don't I wish...Oh and for the record, I did earn his trust: I have the key to his new house, I have access to his bank accounts and know most of his passwords and he has had me check his email too. This is a lot of trust for a Virgo right? He knows that I would never harm him in anyway and I wouldn't. No matter what he did, not my style .
The current story:
During the time that I was "involved" with the old virguy, he was working with another virguy (the one I want now). When the old virguy and I would talk about his work, he would bring up the other virguy and he'd say that the other virguy wanted to meet me. I would say sure! I was trying to play it cool because he and I were not physical yet. But the meeting of the other virguy never panned out. So for the next 10 years, I would occasionally hear about the other virguy and know just enough to know what was going on in his life. Unbeknownst to me, the other virguy was hearing about me too. Fastforward to last Nov/Dec (05): I made the decision that I needed to start meeting men in earnest. THat coincided with the old virguy talking about how the new virguy was ready to get married....hmmmm...
So, the back story:
About 10 yrs ago I met the old virguy (can't call him an ex-because we were never "together"). 2 yrs into the friendship, things changed and I fell for him-hard. Then cue fast forward, with me having no clue as to how virguys worked, him dangling the carrot (and just enough fooin' around and sex) and giving just enough of himself to keep me along for the ride, and me wanting to fix him (show him he could trust women again) and 8 yrs later I was done, towel thrown in. Finito. We're still good friends and I occasionally do some contract work for him, but the fantasy is over. It was a longshot anyway, but it was worth attempting because he is basically a great guy, but he is screwed up (before the dander gets up-his words, not mine). He is 18 years my senior and divorced with two grown kids. I want kids. Not going to happen. so end of that story...don't I wish...Oh and for the record, I did earn his trust: I have the key to his new house, I have access to his bank accounts and know most of his passwords and he has had me check his email too. This is a lot of trust for a Virgo right? He knows that I would never harm him in anyway and I wouldn't. No matter what he did, not my style .
The current story:
During the time that I was "involved" with the old virguy, he was working with another virguy (the one I want now). When the old virguy and I would talk about his work, he would bring up the other virguy and he'd say that the other virguy wanted to meet me. I would say sure! I was trying to play it cool because he and I were not physical yet. But the meeting of the other virguy never panned out. So for the next 10 years, I would occasionally hear about the other virguy and know just enough to know what was going on in his life. Unbeknownst to me, the other virguy was hearing about me too. Fastforward to last Nov/Dec (05): I made the decision that I needed to start meeting men in earnest. THat coincided with the old virguy talking about how the new virguy was ready to get married....hmmmm...
So, I decided to email the new virguy (henceforth virguy) and ask him some advice about my home remodel. It was a legitimate question. With a short intro about who I was, I sent it off. He replied and asked that I call him. I did and over two weeks we had 2-3 phone conversations of about one to two hours each. What was the topic? Relationships. He brought it up. He stated what he wanted and what he didn't want. I disagreed on some points and opened his eyes to some fallacies about a certain demographic. He agreed and said he had not thought about it that way. Towards the end, I realized that there was not an invitation forthcoming, so I gracefully let contact drop. (During this time the old virguy was still my housemate, he was renting the top floor of my home as a home base because his job has him out of town for most of the year).
In Jan, old Virguy found a girlfried and decided he needed to move out and buy a new home. That did upset me because I don't like change and I would miss him. The other woman part did not, because I want him to be happy. So he broke the news to me, I cried, he talked AND in a weird segment of the conversation (which is significant now) he said: "You know Virguy said that the kind of guy you want to marry is either him or me." I really don't know why that had to be said. It was a kind of non-sequitur. I replied that I wouldn't marry him because he was screwed up and Virguy isn't interested.
Feb-July, I am still working for and speaking with old virguy. He occasionally brings up Virguy. In the meantime I am meeting new guys and online dating and such, putting myself out there but nothing clicks... Oh $ #it! Confession time: old virguy needed me to pick him up from a eye surgery at the end of July, I did. He spent the night since he couldn't drive. And we unfortunately had sex. But it was lousy because my heart wasn't in it. At the end I was like "not doing that again, not worth it".
1st wk of Aug, a girlfriend and I were going to go to a baseball game with a friend of hers, but the friend backed out at the last minute. I needed a replacement, some one nice and neutral. I have some guy friends but none were right. The best candidate was unfortunately doing his best to get into my pants, so I was not going there. Then I had a flash! Virguy! He was in my mind because old virguy had put him there recently...
In Jan, old Virguy found a girlfried and decided he needed to move out and buy a new home. That did upset me because I don't like change and I would miss him. The other woman part did not, because I want him to be happy. So he broke the news to me, I cried, he talked AND in a weird segment of the conversation (which is significant now) he said: "You know Virguy said that the kind of guy you want to marry is either him or me." I really don't know why that had to be said. It was a kind of non-sequitur. I replied that I wouldn't marry him because he was screwed up and Virguy isn't interested.
Feb-July, I am still working for and speaking with old virguy. He occasionally brings up Virguy. In the meantime I am meeting new guys and online dating and such, putting myself out there but nothing clicks... Oh $ #it! Confession time: old virguy needed me to pick him up from a eye surgery at the end of July, I did. He spent the night since he couldn't drive. And we unfortunately had sex. But it was lousy because my heart wasn't in it. At the end I was like "not doing that again, not worth it".
1st wk of Aug, a girlfriend and I were going to go to a baseball game with a friend of hers, but the friend backed out at the last minute. I needed a replacement, some one nice and neutral. I have some guy friends but none were right. The best candidate was unfortunately doing his best to get into my pants, so I was not going there. Then I had a flash! Virguy! He was in my mind because old virguy had put him there recently...
Thanks for reading shaka, getting there... one more part hopefully and then the exposition will be over!
I called him on Monday (game was for friday), he didn't answer, left him a message inviting him to go. CAlled him Wed to withdraw the invite since I hadn't heard from him, in order to invite someone else. He answered and agreed to go.
Hello! Immediate attraction! My friend said later, that he was skewed towards me all evening. We did not stop talking, debating, standing on the soapbox all night. He did say I was very analytical, ha. Later he and I went to the bar and had some drinks. Once again, he brought up relationships. He said I should go to Law school, so I could meet and marry a lawyer. He said, "I need to impregnate someone". I made no comment. I try not to go into too much relationship talk because that is what most men think a woman wants to talk about and really, once you go down that path most men's fears and thoughts are confirmed. So I kinda veered away from that. It got late, he drove me to my car. He thanked me and both said we were glad to finally meet each other. I said "Well, you have my number" (mistake? I think so)
Middle of September, I call him (since he had not called me). Hey, I held out for over 5 weeks. He answers and sounds happy to hear from me, we talk for 2 hours about everything. We leave it at, I am planning on making cookies and I will call him so he can come get some. Week later, he comes over. I am making some to send to old virguy (he was having a bad week) and I give some to Virguy. He wants to know why I am sending cookies to old virguy and that he doesn't need them etc. He also doesn't understand why I had to pick him up from the eye surgery...He goes home. huh.
A week later, I call to thank him for a referral he gave me. We talk for an hour, he tells me I should see his house sometime. Another two weeks later, I decide I want to go hiking, I decide to invite him. I call and ask him if he wants to go hiking sometime. He says yes.
Late Oct, we go hiking. We spend about 10 hours together. On the way back home, he says that I need to be impregnated. (inwardly I grin and think: Ah, progress!)
1st week Nov, I stop by the house he is building (at his invitation) and we go to lunch. Spend 5 hours together, he says I have a great sense of humor. On the way back home, he says that I need to get laid. (more progress?)
2nd week Nov, he calls me (FINALLY) and formally invites me to his home to watch a football game. I go last night... and here comes the questions...
Hello! Immediate attraction! My friend said later, that he was skewed towards me all evening. We did not stop talking, debating, standing on the soapbox all night. He did say I was very analytical, ha. Later he and I went to the bar and had some drinks. Once again, he brought up relationships. He said I should go to Law school, so I could meet and marry a lawyer. He said, "I need to impregnate someone". I made no comment. I try not to go into too much relationship talk because that is what most men think a woman wants to talk about and really, once you go down that path most men's fears and thoughts are confirmed. So I kinda veered away from that. It got late, he drove me to my car. He thanked me and both said we were glad to finally meet each other. I said "Well, you have my number" (mistake? I think so)
Middle of September, I call him (since he had not called me). Hey, I held out for over 5 weeks. He answers and sounds happy to hear from me, we talk for 2 hours about everything. We leave it at, I am planning on making cookies and I will call him so he can come get some. Week later, he comes over. I am making some to send to old virguy (he was having a bad week) and I give some to Virguy. He wants to know why I am sending cookies to old virguy and that he doesn't need them etc. He also doesn't understand why I had to pick him up from the eye surgery...He goes home. huh.
A week later, I call to thank him for a referral he gave me. We talk for an hour, he tells me I should see his house sometime. Another two weeks later, I decide I want to go hiking, I decide to invite him. I call and ask him if he wants to go hiking sometime. He says yes.
Late Oct, we go hiking. We spend about 10 hours together. On the way back home, he says that I need to be impregnated. (inwardly I grin and think: Ah, progress!)
1st week Nov, I stop by the house he is building (at his invitation) and we go to lunch. Spend 5 hours together, he says I have a great sense of humor. On the way back home, he says that I need to get laid. (more progress?)
2nd week Nov, he calls me (FINALLY) and formally invites me to his home to watch a football game. I go last night... and here comes the questions...
He has dissected, interrogated and probed me at all levels.Never had that kind of interest in me, my views, family, marriage, politics, etc. from anyone (virgos included). We have progressed from no contact to one sided hugs (from him) goodbye when we went hiking and had lunch. From him needing to impregate, to me needing to be impregnated, to me needing to get laid. He has given me "virgo" compliments: analytical, organized, button done, good sense of humor.He makes comments of what he has to do to get me attracted to him.
Now I finally make it to his home, where we will be alone. He is nervous as h@ll! He wont stop talking as he shows me the whole house he built. The pictures of his siblings and mother etc. We sit down and watch the game. I try to snuggle or give him the opportunity to snuggle (cause Dyr says touch is the next step). He finally puts the hand on my lower back, but then moves to rear. Sigh, we both had alcohol, loosened my inhibitions slightly, But I did tell him, we were NOT having sex. Listed reasons, no bc pill, condoms break, I don't know him that well etc. I can't tell if he is disappointed or not,he tried to be non-chalant about it. Well, we still kept petting, he went for the breasts. Anyway, at some point, I couldn't take his innuendo anymore and decided to up the ante. So I sat astride him and said that I think he wasn't ready and I knew that because he hadn't kissed me yet. Then I kissed him, on the lips, and he did respond, but there was no tongue or intimacy at all. (yeah, earlier in the evening I had thought about the Pretty Woman reference about kissing being personal -self-fulling prophecy there). At this point he is on overload, he gets up goes to the kitchen, comes back and starts muttering incoherently, I did make out him telling me not to go and start analyzing all this and that we should not be getting into this etc. I know enough to try to calm him down, which I do. He is breathing again. We stop. And then we start with the stroking again, which we move to his bed. Again at some point, we stop, he tells me we should put our clothes on (no, we weren't fully naked). We sit on the couch, we lose the game, I fall asleep on couch, he later covers me up, goes to bed. I wake up, go home. Feel bad, come back the next morning to apologize for teasing him and to thank him for the evening. He says "We're both adults. No apology needed. He seems okay, he gives me two arm hug. Where am I at here? Pointers? You screwed up?
Now I finally make it to his home, where we will be alone. He is nervous as h@ll! He wont stop talking as he shows me the whole house he built. The pictures of his siblings and mother etc. We sit down and watch the game. I try to snuggle or give him the opportunity to snuggle (cause Dyr says touch is the next step). He finally puts the hand on my lower back, but then moves to rear. Sigh, we both had alcohol, loosened my inhibitions slightly, But I did tell him, we were NOT having sex. Listed reasons, no bc pill, condoms break, I don't know him that well etc. I can't tell if he is disappointed or not,he tried to be non-chalant about it. Well, we still kept petting, he went for the breasts. Anyway, at some point, I couldn't take his innuendo anymore and decided to up the ante. So I sat astride him and said that I think he wasn't ready and I knew that because he hadn't kissed me yet. Then I kissed him, on the lips, and he did respond, but there was no tongue or intimacy at all. (yeah, earlier in the evening I had thought about the Pretty Woman reference about kissing being personal -self-fulling prophecy there). At this point he is on overload, he gets up goes to the kitchen, comes back and starts muttering incoherently, I did make out him telling me not to go and start analyzing all this and that we should not be getting into this etc. I know enough to try to calm him down, which I do. He is breathing again. We stop. And then we start with the stroking again, which we move to his bed. Again at some point, we stop, he tells me we should put our clothes on (no, we weren't fully naked). We sit on the couch, we lose the game, I fall asleep on couch, he later covers me up, goes to bed. I wake up, go home. Feel bad, come back the next morning to apologize for teasing him and to thank him for the evening. He says "We're both adults. No apology needed. He seems okay, he gives me two arm hug. Where am I at here? Pointers? You screwed up?
THanks Dyr! I am "detailed" ; ) Sorry about that, but in order to make an informed opinion, you need the facts!
I do respect your views. I can only hope that he is a mature virgo like you. I am/was just afraid that I pushed past a line that that I could not recover from. He had that terrified/petrified look that the older virguy had. I just really like him a lot.
I do wonder about something though...he had no problem getting and giving "kisses below the belt" which I did not do. I would have really been a goner then. But he could do that without kissing me first? What's up with that? Is it really that personal for you virgo guys?
I do respect your views. I can only hope that he is a mature virgo like you. I am/was just afraid that I pushed past a line that that I could not recover from. He had that terrified/petrified look that the older virguy had. I just really like him a lot.
I do wonder about something though...he had no problem getting and giving "kisses below the belt" which I did not do. I would have really been a goner then. But he could do that without kissing me first? What's up with that? Is it really that personal for you virgo guys?
>He's not related to Ferghus Clydelover by any chance, is he? (Inside DXP joke!)
Wha? You guys crack me up, LOL...
Ok, it is odd that he didn't kiss you on the lips first... at least for me, mouth kissing is first and foremost. It's WAY intimate and so sensual. I can kiss and French kiss for hours, then move below the belt, and back to the mouth... it's all good.
But DY could be on to something... maybe he does have bad teeth.
But your Virguys behavior really puzzles me, since I had a ten year LTR with a Cancer gal and we were really tight. If you look back on my posts on the subject, you'll see that I pursued her, over a several month period but gave up when it only seemed that we'd only ever be simple friends. Then one day she grabs me from behind and we end up making out down by the river, and sleeping together that night.
Anyway, at his age, he should be on you like a Duck on a June bug, LOL... so I'm puzzled. Maybe he still needs to get to know you a little better? I have this hang up concerning horses, and will not go far with a gal who is not into horses like I am. At one point with my new Scorp gal, I misunderstood something she said and thought she was burnt out on riding, and I told her I wasn't interested in going any further or even being lovers... but she quickly straightened me out and we went riding and a week later spent the night together = ))
>Now I finally make it to his home, where we will be alone. He is nervous as h@ll!
To this I can relate a little. I was excited all week as Scorp gal and I talked of spending Friday night together at my place. I was calm, confidant, ready. When she came over, everything was fine. We had a glass of wine, chatted a bit, then got to work kissing, and soon she said Shall we go into the bedroom? We went in, undressed and started playing... but very odd... I was suddenly nervous for some reason... no idea why. Well, this was the first time I'd been with a gal in two years, but... don't know. We had fun, did it twice over an hour or two... I still felt odd. She was great... I think I just need to get back in practice, LOL... then all will feel normal again. So maybe your Virguy was having a simular reaction?
Wha? You guys crack me up, LOL...
Ok, it is odd that he didn't kiss you on the lips first... at least for me, mouth kissing is first and foremost. It's WAY intimate and so sensual. I can kiss and French kiss for hours, then move below the belt, and back to the mouth... it's all good.
But DY could be on to something... maybe he does have bad teeth.
But your Virguys behavior really puzzles me, since I had a ten year LTR with a Cancer gal and we were really tight. If you look back on my posts on the subject, you'll see that I pursued her, over a several month period but gave up when it only seemed that we'd only ever be simple friends. Then one day she grabs me from behind and we end up making out down by the river, and sleeping together that night.
Anyway, at his age, he should be on you like a Duck on a June bug, LOL... so I'm puzzled. Maybe he still needs to get to know you a little better? I have this hang up concerning horses, and will not go far with a gal who is not into horses like I am. At one point with my new Scorp gal, I misunderstood something she said and thought she was burnt out on riding, and I told her I wasn't interested in going any further or even being lovers... but she quickly straightened me out and we went riding and a week later spent the night together = ))
>Now I finally make it to his home, where we will be alone. He is nervous as h@ll!
To this I can relate a little. I was excited all week as Scorp gal and I talked of spending Friday night together at my place. I was calm, confidant, ready. When she came over, everything was fine. We had a glass of wine, chatted a bit, then got to work kissing, and soon she said Shall we go into the bedroom? We went in, undressed and started playing... but very odd... I was suddenly nervous for some reason... no idea why. Well, this was the first time I'd been with a gal in two years, but... don't know. We had fun, did it twice over an hour or two... I still felt odd. She was great... I think I just need to get back in practice, LOL... then all will feel normal again. So maybe your Virguy was having a simular reaction?
Also, many of us V-Guys want sex asap, if we are attracted to you, and do not feel badly towards a gal if she is as horny as us.
I know some guys won't respect a gal who gives in too soon, but I never felt that way. For me, having sex, even on the first date, only strengthened the bond I felt with a woman.
Maybe you coming on to him, yet saying NO sex... was too much for him to handle at the moment?
I have very good control in such situations, but it took me years to learn such control in both mind and body.
I've also learned from my experience with the Cap gal, that in a new relationship, only about two months can go by with no sex, before I give up and figure it ain't gonna happen and move on emotionally, even tho I may still be friendly to that gal.
I know some guys won't respect a gal who gives in too soon, but I never felt that way. For me, having sex, even on the first date, only strengthened the bond I felt with a woman.
Maybe you coming on to him, yet saying NO sex... was too much for him to handle at the moment?
I have very good control in such situations, but it took me years to learn such control in both mind and body.
I've also learned from my experience with the Cap gal, that in a new relationship, only about two months can go by with no sex, before I give up and figure it ain't gonna happen and move on emotionally, even tho I may still be friendly to that gal.
No, we did not have oral, But He definitely wanted it! I was puzzled somewhat through the alcohol haze that he had no problem going for the goodies, even though he had skipped from barely touching to wanting serious contact. I was like huh? No kissing? That's when I said I wasn't ready and I thought neither was he because HE had not kissed me (on the mouth). Shortly thereafter he continued to incoherent melt down.
I dunno. He had previously told me, a couple times at least, that I should stop by his place and see it. He is a builder and is very proud of his handiwork. I have stopped by the home he is currently building but not the home he lives in. I told him that I was not just going to stop by with out an invitation. (He has one of his best friends and family living with him while their home is finished being built). I said that if I just stopped by I could incovenience him and his friends. He said dont worry about it, come see my house. I knew I wouldn't with out a formal declaration. So...he waited a week, and called me and left a message (a first). I called him back, we chatted and he said something about his home. THEN he said, THATS right you HAVENT seen it yet. I laughed and said I wouldn't unless he asked me to come over a specific day/time. So we settled on this past Sat, since his friends would be out of town.
Now as for the sex part. We have discussed sex. He is one of the many virgos I know who are catnip to women. They throw themselves at him, because he is so aloof. He had an ugly incident with his neighbor (she moved away). Basically his policy is this: sex costs too much. He'd rather go home and take care of his own business than have bad sex. I can relate to that. When I saw him last weekend, he made a big deal about how I was the only woman who had been to his jobsite. He also said that if I came over to his home, it would be a big surprise to his friends because he had not brought anyone home in over 5 months (timing coincides nicely with right before we went out for the first time). He knows that my policy is that I can't have sex, unless I am emotionally involved.
So, I dont know, I was sure anticipating the evening, maybe he was too. We both worked ourselves up to extreme nervousness from there?
I dunno. He had previously told me, a couple times at least, that I should stop by his place and see it. He is a builder and is very proud of his handiwork. I have stopped by the home he is currently building but not the home he lives in. I told him that I was not just going to stop by with out an invitation. (He has one of his best friends and family living with him while their home is finished being built). I said that if I just stopped by I could incovenience him and his friends. He said dont worry about it, come see my house. I knew I wouldn't with out a formal declaration. So...he waited a week, and called me and left a message (a first). I called him back, we chatted and he said something about his home. THEN he said, THATS right you HAVENT seen it yet. I laughed and said I wouldn't unless he asked me to come over a specific day/time. So we settled on this past Sat, since his friends would be out of town.
Now as for the sex part. We have discussed sex. He is one of the many virgos I know who are catnip to women. They throw themselves at him, because he is so aloof. He had an ugly incident with his neighbor (she moved away). Basically his policy is this: sex costs too much. He'd rather go home and take care of his own business than have bad sex. I can relate to that. When I saw him last weekend, he made a big deal about how I was the only woman who had been to his jobsite. He also said that if I came over to his home, it would be a big surprise to his friends because he had not brought anyone home in over 5 months (timing coincides nicely with right before we went out for the first time). He knows that my policy is that I can't have sex, unless I am emotionally involved.
So, I dont know, I was sure anticipating the evening, maybe he was too. We both worked ourselves up to extreme nervousness from there?
Oh, no bad breath, no other issues I can tell. Oh it may have been three months in calendar time but. It has only been me inviting him on a baseball game, going hiking, and seeing the home he is building. with maybe 5 other phone calls thrown in between? Hell, I need more than that. Dont get me wrong, the juices are definitely flowing but my heart is not ready. I need more from him before I can go there. But I tell you what. If he had gone to serious stroking and kissing, he could have gotten a lot further along.
The other issues that may be affecting this is that we have known of each other for 10 years now. Could that be creating a sense of intimacy for him more so than for me? I don't know how much was said about me from the older virguy. And then, yeah, there is the older virguy. Just how much did he share? And is that affecting Virguy? I mean the first six times we spoke or saw each other, he would bring up older virguy and feel me out. Sort of got a jealously vibe. But the last three times we've spoken, he has not brought him up and I can sense that that is not an issue anymore.
The reason I can't be rational about this is because I was put through the wringerfor years with the older one and now I can potentially be in the same situation. Yet, I believe he could d@mn well be worth it. We are very similar and I adore his mind. That was the first thing that turned me on, then it was his eyes, then his mouth. Yeah, I need sex.
And yeah, I have avidly followed Dyr and FC and VPM stories. I need as much help as I can get. And Dyr, I have easily put in as much time as Deb into studying my guy.
The reason I can't be rational about this is because I was put through the wringerfor years with the older one and now I can potentially be in the same situation. Yet, I believe he could d@mn well be worth it. We are very similar and I adore his mind. That was the first thing that turned me on, then it was his eyes, then his mouth. Yeah, I need sex.
And yeah, I have avidly followed Dyr and FC and VPM stories. I need as much help as I can get. And Dyr, I have easily put in as much time as Deb into studying my guy.
Oh and cr@p, let me make this more complicated. Before we went out for the first time, I told him that he was going because I knew he wouldn't try to get into my pants, like the other guy friends I had. We discussed this a little further again when we went hiking. About how my friend kept pushing a sexual relationship and that the friend said I was simply scared of my feelings for him. Virguy said that the other guy was reading me wrong.
Argh! I think of FC and his "pursuit" of his cancer gal. Sometimes I think that virguys believe they are in pursuit but because you are so understated, we women don't realize it and you end up thinking we are not interested!
In my case, he has gone verbal in his pursuit, I have flirted back acknowledging said pursuit. We get alone, he has trouble making first move, then he moves in for the kill. However, I did not get the steps I needed to move along with him. And now he may be in deep cover forever, and I am left feeling like it's all my fault.
Argh! I think of FC and his "pursuit" of his cancer gal. Sometimes I think that virguys believe they are in pursuit but because you are so understated, we women don't realize it and you end up thinking we are not interested!
In my case, he has gone verbal in his pursuit, I have flirted back acknowledging said pursuit. We get alone, he has trouble making first move, then he moves in for the kill. However, I did not get the steps I needed to move along with him. And now he may be in deep cover forever, and I am left feeling like it's all my fault.
>I was puzzled somewhat through the alcohol haze that he had no problem going for the goodies, even though he had skipped from barely touching to wanting serious contact. I was like huh? No kissing?
So how much did you both have to drink? I know in my case, I have to limit myself to only a couple drinks, otherwise my brain gets too foggy to really enjoy the whole sexual experience.
Going for the goodies and skipping kissing... he could just be way out of practice and was nervous... or is VERY inexperienced?
So how much did you both have to drink? I know in my case, I have to limit myself to only a couple drinks, otherwise my brain gets too foggy to really enjoy the whole sexual experience.
Going for the goodies and skipping kissing... he could just be way out of practice and was nervous... or is VERY inexperienced?
He had 2-3 light beers. I don't even know if he was feeling it or not. I had two beers and one strong mixed drink. Enough to lower my inhibitions but not my control. I think what should have happened was that we moved to the touching phase and maybe kissed at the end of the evening. Somehow, we moved passed that and I hope that this does not derail us.
As for experience, you know, I don't think he has a lot. I hadn't considered that. That may very well be the case or I am really reaching.
As for experience, you know, I don't think he has a lot. I hadn't considered that. That may very well be the case or I am really reaching.
>Argh! I think of FC and his "pursuit" of his cancer gal. Sometimes I think that virguys believe they are in pursuit but because you are so understated, we women don't realize it and you end up thinking we are not interested!
Yes... in those days ( I was 21 ) and still pretty green and shy. I never out and out asked her to go for a walk with me or anything... instead, chatted with her, smiled at her, always gave her a very close hug at the end of an event. I guess hoped I'd see interest in her eyes or something. It had happened with other gals... but just didn't seem to pan out with her. It took her coming up behind me one night, putting her arm around my waist... then asking me to go for a walk with her... and directing me to a spot by the river, sitting down then... don't remember who kissed who first... but after the ice was broken... it was open season, LOL. We kissed for hours and made love in her tent.
>We get alone, he has trouble making first move, then he moves in for the kill. However, I did not get the steps I needed to move along with him.
Hm.... really sounds like he has had very little experience in matters sexual. Sounds like me when I was a teenager!
Yes... in those days ( I was 21 ) and still pretty green and shy. I never out and out asked her to go for a walk with me or anything... instead, chatted with her, smiled at her, always gave her a very close hug at the end of an event. I guess hoped I'd see interest in her eyes or something. It had happened with other gals... but just didn't seem to pan out with her. It took her coming up behind me one night, putting her arm around my waist... then asking me to go for a walk with her... and directing me to a spot by the river, sitting down then... don't remember who kissed who first... but after the ice was broken... it was open season, LOL. We kissed for hours and made love in her tent.
>We get alone, he has trouble making first move, then he moves in for the kill. However, I did not get the steps I needed to move along with him.
Hm.... really sounds like he has had very little experience in matters sexual. Sounds like me when I was a teenager!
Do you virguy find that you rarely make the first move? I asked him last night if he usually made the first move and he said sometimes. But usually it's the woman, same for the older virguy. I don't have a problem making it and since I kissed him last night (damn alcohol) apparently I did. But I need to know he truly wants me and is not just along for the ride. At this point of my life I need to know without a doubt that he wants to be with me. What do you think constitutes unequivocal virgo interest and intent?
>As for experience, you know, I don't think he has a lot. I hadn't considered that. That may very well be the case or I am really reaching.
I can tell you how I was... self pleasure since before puberty.
First kissed at age 16, by a 21 year old gal.
First had sex at age 19... BJ first, then straight sex.
Treated that GF rather badly... liked her, but felt guilty because of my faith at the time... and only saw here like once a month when the need got so bad I couldn't stand it any longer... she finally dumped me after like a year... I still feel bad about it. She was a really nice gal... I was just a dumb kid.
Started having lots of GF's and regular sex from age 20 on... met Cancer gal at age 21 and she was 36. She taught me a lot, but I also was experienced a little in other ways that I was able to teach her a little too, heh.
Think I had around 40 lovers total over the years... I'm 46 now.
Got married at age 27 to a 29 yo gal. Kept learning about sexual interactions.
Divorced at age 32, hooked up with Cancer gal again... still learned new stuff sexual.
Thru our 10 years together I kept learning... don't most of us?
On my own again now and know all there is to know about matters sexual! LOL... well... I know a lot any way. = ) But still have an open mind... My new Scorp gal even taught me something new Friday that I'd never considered before... so you're always learning new stuff... I guess when you stop learning, you die, heh.
I was always interested in matters sexual, even as a kid... reading... YES READING my dads Playboys... so many good articles there about how to be a good lover, and please your lover.
I can tell you how I was... self pleasure since before puberty.
First kissed at age 16, by a 21 year old gal.
First had sex at age 19... BJ first, then straight sex.
Treated that GF rather badly... liked her, but felt guilty because of my faith at the time... and only saw here like once a month when the need got so bad I couldn't stand it any longer... she finally dumped me after like a year... I still feel bad about it. She was a really nice gal... I was just a dumb kid.
Started having lots of GF's and regular sex from age 20 on... met Cancer gal at age 21 and she was 36. She taught me a lot, but I also was experienced a little in other ways that I was able to teach her a little too, heh.
Think I had around 40 lovers total over the years... I'm 46 now.
Got married at age 27 to a 29 yo gal. Kept learning about sexual interactions.
Divorced at age 32, hooked up with Cancer gal again... still learned new stuff sexual.
Thru our 10 years together I kept learning... don't most of us?
On my own again now and know all there is to know about matters sexual! LOL... well... I know a lot any way. = ) But still have an open mind... My new Scorp gal even taught me something new Friday that I'd never considered before... so you're always learning new stuff... I guess when you stop learning, you die, heh.
I was always interested in matters sexual, even as a kid... reading... YES READING my dads Playboys... so many good articles there about how to be a good lover, and please your lover.
Going back to previous comments both you and dyr have made, I have to agree. NO BETTER KISSERS than Virgo. My god! Older virguy, just, my god! And I don't know about Virguy, since he didn't deepen the kiss I gave him. And yes, Virguys do believe in pleasing the female. Whew! I highly recommend virsex to those who have not tried it.
>At this point of my life I need to know without a doubt that he wants to be with me. What do you think constitutes unequivocal virgo interest and intent?
I would say the fact that he's talking about sex with you, even if it's friendly talk... is a sign he's interested.
Having you over to his place is a good sign. Only gals I really like get invited over. If I wasn't attracted to a gal a LOT, she'd never get an invite to my place.
If he's not making the first move, he may be inexperienced and you need to do it. If he likes you, he will be into kissing you... you just may need to slow him down a little.. again, because if he's inexperienced, he may not understand how great and important kissing is, before going on to other things.
If he hasn't called you after the bad date at his place... you could try asking him if he'd like to "start over" and go a little slower? Tell him you ARE sexually interested in him, but you need to get to know him a little better... that will give him hope. Just don't drag it out too long... more than a month or so and he will likely lose interest... well, that's me anyway.
If he thinks you really like him... that could stir his feelings... it worked for me. I actually fell in love with Cancer gal the day I realized she really cared about me as more than a lover... that was the day I was sick in the morning after a night with the Witch woman, hehe... I think I posted about it here.
I would say the fact that he's talking about sex with you, even if it's friendly talk... is a sign he's interested.
Having you over to his place is a good sign. Only gals I really like get invited over. If I wasn't attracted to a gal a LOT, she'd never get an invite to my place.
If he's not making the first move, he may be inexperienced and you need to do it. If he likes you, he will be into kissing you... you just may need to slow him down a little.. again, because if he's inexperienced, he may not understand how great and important kissing is, before going on to other things.
If he hasn't called you after the bad date at his place... you could try asking him if he'd like to "start over" and go a little slower? Tell him you ARE sexually interested in him, but you need to get to know him a little better... that will give him hope. Just don't drag it out too long... more than a month or so and he will likely lose interest... well, that's me anyway.
If he thinks you really like him... that could stir his feelings... it worked for me. I actually fell in love with Cancer gal the day I realized she really cared about me as more than a lover... that was the day I was sick in the morning after a night with the Witch woman, hehe... I think I posted about it here.
Thanks FC. I feel better. I hope that there was enough there that he will call. How long to wait? A week more or less?
I have told him that I enjoy spending time with him and that I like him. And I did have my tongue all over his chest, neck and earlobes. Can he possibly believe I am NOT interested sexually? I just was not ready to have oral, though I do love to give it. I like pleasing my partner very much. And not intercourse for sure. huh. What to do but the Virgo wait now?
I have told him that I enjoy spending time with him and that I like him. And I did have my tongue all over his chest, neck and earlobes. Can he possibly believe I am NOT interested sexually? I just was not ready to have oral, though I do love to give it. I like pleasing my partner very much. And not intercourse for sure. huh. What to do but the Virgo wait now?
If he doesn't call within a week, you may have to contact him and see how it goes... ask him out.
Only reason he wouldn't call within that time would be if he was super busy with work. You may need to poke him a little, heh.
>And I did have my tongue all over his chest, neck and earlobes. Can he possibly believe I am NOT interested sexually?
Me and Cap gal spent literally 3 or 4 hours the fourth date and much more the fifth date FRENCH kissing. She was a Great kisser. And I know good kissers... but I could get nothing more out of her. And when I asked what was wrong, she would say she was interested in me.. but didn't know why she wasn't ready for sex and didn't know when she would be... every time I asked later, she'd say don't rush me.
Humans are weird.. = )
Only reason he wouldn't call within that time would be if he was super busy with work. You may need to poke him a little, heh.
>And I did have my tongue all over his chest, neck and earlobes. Can he possibly believe I am NOT interested sexually?
Me and Cap gal spent literally 3 or 4 hours the fourth date and much more the fifth date FRENCH kissing. She was a Great kisser. And I know good kissers... but I could get nothing more out of her. And when I asked what was wrong, she would say she was interested in me.. but didn't know why she wasn't ready for sex and didn't know when she would be... every time I asked later, she'd say don't rush me.
Humans are weird.. = )
In reading your other posts about virgo control, let me posit something... He had called me on Friday to see what I was doing. THe family who lives with him was originally supposed to be gone Friday. But I didn't return his call until much later that evening and the family's plans fell through, so he ended up not alone. On Saturday, I'd noticed he'd shaved but had a day's growth (he shaves about every three weeks or so). Is it possible he had this scenario set up for Friday instead? And when things began falling apart and probably further compounded with my not behaving along the lines he wanted, did this loss of control freak him out? Because when I got there and he gave me the tour, he could not stop talking fast. A speed monologue for about 30 minutes. Even I, in my naivete, could tell he was nervous... Once again, I pray for a recovery.
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