Uh-oh. How to break-up with Virguy?

Alright, so in our relationship, we've been treading rocky waters for some time now. I'm so exhausted with all of the guess work that's required, and how much effort seems to be coming exclusively from my side.
Emotionally, we couldn't be further apart. He's affectionate, but cold at the same time. I like him a lot (a lot, lot, lot, lot, lot!!), but that's part of the problem.

I feel like I've found myself in a bind because I'm investing a lot more of myself into him than he's willing to invest in me. I know if we continue down this path, I'm the one that's going to get hurt because he seems so detached. Another problem; "SEEMS detached." He internalizes so much, that other than me intuitively knowing how he feels, he never expresses his happiness or sadness to me.

Despite the fact that we've been seeing one another for 5 months, things seem very, VERY casual and still in the preliminary (almost high school) stages of a relationship. Every time we pass a relationship milestone and become closer (a closeness that, strangely, HE initiates) he withdraws for days at a time afterwards.

I told him I'd like things to get more serious, and he told me he isn't ready for that commitment ,despite the fact that earlier, he had told me he's 'committed' to me. I don't want to be strung along and wait for him to POTENTIALLY be ready for something more serious, if down the line, it isn't going to mean squat.

I should add that he's only ever had long-term relationships which have ended in him enduring heartbreak...something he wasn't even willing to admit to me until I urged him to open up LAST WEEK. Yeah...I was oblivious to this until only a few days ago. So, having this kernel of insight, I sympathize with WHY he would be so hesitant to pursue something heavier with me. But that should further highlight the fact that we are mismatched in our partnership. My heart is entirely intact and ready to welcome him, while his is still bruised and thawing.


I'm not going to give him an ultimatum, because imagine what terrible grounds that would be to advance a relationship. I think I just need to break away free so neither of us spend a second more wasting time with one another.

I was just wondering the best way to approach this break-up, or even if I SHOULD break-up with him in the first place.
Ah, any kind of perspective would be greatly appreciated.

Well, if you're going to break-up, make it clean. Be sure to list every reason why you feel the need to do so and make sure they all make sense. Don't make it over-dramatic and be 100% honest. However if you choose to stick around, you have to have the patience of a saint. Some of us poor virguys are misunderstood, we indeed have emotions. We're just cautious and even more so if we've been hurt before. You can tell him that you love him a million times but until he works it out in his head and heart by himself, it's just wasted breath. That's the way I see it anyway.

Posted by SomeRandomVirgo
Well, if you're going to break-up, make it clean. Be sure to list every reason why you feel the need to do so and make sure they all make sense. Don't make it over-dramatic and be 100% honest. However if you choose to stick around, you have to have the patience of a saint. Some of us poor virguys are misunderstood, we indeed have emotions. We're just cautious and even more so if we've been hurt before. You can tell him that you love him a million times but until he works it out in his head and heart by himself, it's just wasted breath. That's the way I see it anyway.

Thank you for the advice! And you're right about Virguys; the men tend to LIVE inside their head. Their emotions always seem suppressed by their logic. It's so difficult for them to just feel something without picking apart the reason as to why it is they're feeling it. As a Libra, it's so frustrating. I imagine me being so open with my emotions bothers him as well, but I don't know how to be anything else. Neither does he. We aren't at fault for being ourselves, but who we are does seem to be meant for one another.

Though, I have heard the reward for being patient in regards to a Virguy is worth the price you pay to get there.
Hmm.

So confused.

does NOT seem to be meant for one another.*

True, I tend to treat a girl like a queen if she can put up with my constant analyzing. I dunno how other virguys are but when it comes to me, I don't know how to "just feel", that's just reckless and frightening in my opinion. I like to figure out the "why" behind everything. There's no hamster on the wheel in my head, it's a full blown freakin factory lol

Posted by LibraLove
Alright, so in our relationship, we've been treading rocky waters for some time now. I'm so exhausted with all of the guess work that's required, and how much effort seems to be coming exclusively from my side.

Another problem; "SEEMS detached." He internalizes so much, that other than me intuitively knowing how he feels, he never expresses his happiness or sadness to me.

Libras are often guilty of this too.
He just might be following the pace you set.

Despite the fact that we've been seeing one another for 5 months, things seem very, VERY casual and still in the preliminary (almost high school) stages of a relationship. Every time we pass a relationship milestone and become closer (a closeness that, strangely, HE initiates) he withdraws for days at a time afterwards.

It's the Virgo Man way, in his early years.

I told him I'd like things to get more serious, and he told me he isn't ready for that commitment ,despite the fact that earlier, he had told me he's 'committed' to me. I don't want to be strung along and wait for him to POTENTIALLY be ready for something more serious, if down the line, it isn't going to mean squat.

I should add that he's only ever had long-term relationships which have ended in him enduring heartbreak...something he wasn't even willing to admit to me until I urged him to open up LAST WEEK.

He said he's committed, so he is.
He said he's not ready for that kind of commitment, meaning that he sees how serious you are and is unsure and unprepared to give as much as you give at this early stage.

I sympathize with WHY he would be so hesitant to pursue something heavier with me. But that should further highlight the fact that we are mismatched in our partnership. My heart is entirely intact and ready to welcome him, while his is still bruised and thawing.

Don't you think that's pushing it a bit?

I'm not going to give him an ultimatum, because imagine what terrible grounds that would be to advance a relationship. I think I just need to break away free so neither of us spend a second more wasting time with one another.

click to expand

They key with a Virgo man is patience.
This action you propose will simply devastate him, again.

I HAVE been patient. Painstakingly so, with little to no payoff. He always avoids emotional aspects and opts to push a sexual agenda instead. That also pisses me off.

Honestly, I don't think it's worth my time to be patient. It's a grueling task waiting for him. I'm ALWAYS waiting.
I wouldn't mind so much, if he gave me some incentive, maybe showed me that things will progress or pick up, but he's yet to show any signs.

Not even conducive of being a Libra, but being a GIRL, I need some form of positive reaffirmation from time-to-time. I praise him all the time, and it's a genuine act, not because I feel the need to, yet he hasn't complimented me to my face once. I know it's petty to need to HEAR someone tell you they like things about you, but when you don't, it's a lot easier to submit to uncertainty.

We obviously expect entirely different things from a relationship, so I guess I'm having a difficult time trying to see why it'd be beneficial for either of us to remain where we are. It's like being in a rowboat with each of us paddling in different directions and just winding up in circles instead.

I don't think he'll have his heart broken again, as some of you state, because his heart doesn't even seem involved. He's so detached. He asked if I feel emotionally involved, and after 5 months, almost 6, I said "obviously" which seemed to have scared him and gave me the impression that he didn't feel the same way.

With all that said, at the end of the day, I still like him so much. So despite all of the logic I see persuading me to move on, my brain just plays a secondary role to how I actually feel.

Incompatible signs! haha

Posted by domino_O

Posted by LibraLove
I HAVE been patient. Painstakingly so, with little to no payoff. He always avoids emotional aspects and opts to push a sexual agenda instead. That also pisses me off.

Well if you feel that way, ditch him now. Relationships based on sex are pathetic and useless and only contribute to hurt children due to emotional strains for their parents.

What level of "commitment" in this perspective are you talking about. It seems like you guys probably had sex already; unless these days that is just some commercial/social event, I'm assuming you mean some sort of emotional connection with this man? Don't ever have sex with a man, if in the end you want commitment or something more, before that talk actually happens (commitment talk before sex).

I would never commit to a woman after 5 months, not in the terms were it is like: I want to be married or have kids with. I want to spent at least a year with a woman, living together, before actually going that route. I'd be committed not to see anyone else (i.e. cheat on her) but I will never commit under such short notice.

click to expand

We haven't had sex, but done virtually everything else. Uh...
/tugs uncomfortably at collar
That's kind of awkward to admit on a public board haha.
But it's important because I've already expressed to him I wouldn't have sex unless I knew he considered us as boyfriend/girlfriend, which I THOUGHT he did, until he brought up being "scared of commitment." I asked what would change if he were to just nominally be my "boyfriend" and even he admitted that nothing would. With that said, when I told him my guidelines for sex (wow, I'm starting to sound as systematic as a Virgo), he said he respected that and was willing to wait.

I'm 21-years-old, I'm not looking for HEAVY commitment here. I would just like the confidence of being in a relationship where I know the person I'm with isn't leading me on and isn't going to walk away at the drop of a dime. To me, for him to recognize me as his girlfriend would be a security blanket of sorts. It would mean to me that I wouldn't have to hold back and I'd be able let my guard down entirely without the fear of getting hurt. Of course, getting hurt is inevitable in most relationships, but I would trust, that if he were my boyfriend, he would give more co

consideration to things that could hurt me, and I would do the same for him. I would know that he'd hesitate before breaking things off and pursuing things with another girl, whereas now, I feel if he were to do that, I'd technically have no grounds to be upset since we're not even officially together.

Thank you for your help (and kind strokes of my ego ha!), domino_O.
I'm sure if I took his pants and literally wore them, that would convince him IMMEDIATELY. There is no logistical counter to somebody doing that.

I feel uncomfortable giving him an ultimatum, but thinking this through, and taking into consideration what you've said, it seems like an appropriate compromise. If I want to break up, I should at least give him an opportunity to convince me otherwise. If he doesn't want nor care to stop me, then my mind will have been made up.

Posted by CappyLuv30
You know my cousin had a similar thing happen to her. She started hanging out with her boss. They became quick friends. Going out after work and what not. Both single. He had just gotten out of a 5 year relationship and she out of a 2 year one. They developed feelings for each other but both were not ready and decided to keep things casual. This continued for a year and a half. Hanging out, hooking up, all casual. Just fun. But she reached a point where she was done with it.

She sat him down one day, had a talk with him and basically gave it to him straight, "I'm not that girl anymore that doesn't know what she wants, I want a serious relationship now and I understand that you don't or are not ready but I am. We can't keep seeing each other unless you want that too. We can be friends but I need some space to 'get over you'." And all he said was "I understand"....and that was that.

Two months later, she had moved on, was living it UP with her girls, the single life, and she gets a random text from him after BARELY hearing from him (even if she saw him often at work, they made it a point to NEVER make things awkward at work) and the text said "I miss you". She was shocked. She really didn't think she'd ever hear from him again. So she was on her way back from a trip from CA with her friends and when she gets home, he was parked outside her house and he said, "I can't live life without you, I want you as my girlfriend." She met the family that same week and it was official.

Sometimes it takes something drastic to make a guy realize what he has (or could lose/lost) so maybe having a talk like domino suggested would be either the closure or the spark necessary to move forward.

Good luck 🙂

This is exactly what I've been articulating in my mind in terms of what I'd like to say to him.

I've asked what he would do if I were to just abruptly end things (though, I brought it up in a joking fashion, before I knew we'd end up here), and he told me his natural response would be to just respect what I want. Saying "I understand" seems cold, but it's sweet when you consider the intention behind it. It isn't done out of apathy, but out of care to save the person proposing the action any more complications.

However, things would be simpler for everyone if both parties did and said what they meant as opposed to what they thought

@25thDecan
Okay, either you didn't read the other posts I made, or you misunderstood where I'm coming from.

I don't hold these idealized notions of romance. I don't EXPECT hearts, and roses and chocolates, and meaningless compliments thrown my way all the time. All I'm asking for is some, SOME form of recognition. He has never EVER complimented me. On anything. Ever. I understand his actions to a degree make up for the lack of verbal positive reaffirmation, but not entirely. Everybody is different, and I am just such a person that requires verbal signals of affection. Some people prefer the physical, others the mental, but I don't understand why I'm being criticized by the men on this board for simply stating my preference and expressing that I'm unhappy with the fact that my needs/wants are not being met.

Furthermore, I never once referred to him as "my Virgo," if the quotes around "Virgo" in your opening remarks are indicative of that. I don't lay claim to another human being. NoBODY is mine. And in terms of not officially being together, it's because he says things then takes them back. He told me we're in a relationship, then when confronted with being my boyfriend, told me he wasn't ready. Yes, we aren't "officially" together, but we've developed enough intimacy that in some terms, this would be a "break-up." It's the cleanest, most fitting word I could think of in lieu of having to cram "Breaking up, but-not-really-breaking-up-since-we-aren't-officially-together with a Virguy?" into the title.

I don't think who have grounds or proof to tell me I want to "get rid of this guy" when everything I've posted in this thread has been in direct contrast to that claim.

I've stressed again and again that it would seem best FOR BOTH OF US if we moved on, yet because I care so profoundly for him, that it would be hard and hurtful for me to do.

I think it's unfair to paint me in such a selfish light, when you recognize that I am young. Yes, it's self-serving to leave behind something that doesn't satisfy me, but what person, regardless of age, willingly endures constant discontentment when they have a more favorable alternative (being single) to turn to.

I believe I've done my part, and am waiting for him to do his. You mentioned I didn't state what I wanted (in terms of commitment), but in that allegation you answered your own question. That is what I want...COMMITMENT. I want him to stop tip-toeing around both of

our emotions and either tell me he wants or does NOT want to pursue something more serious. I hate occupying this middle-ground that is wrought with uncertainty.

Consequently, I'm not just going to up and leave, that is why I stated that I will give him an opportunity to tell me what he thinks and how he feels and then HOPEFULLY, both of us will be better for having talked about it.

This is exactly what I've been articulating in my mind in terms of what I'd like to say to him.

I've asked what he would do if I were to just abruptly end things (though, I brought it up in a joking fashion, before I knew we'd end up here), and he told me his natural response would be to just respect what I want. Saying "I understand" seems cold, but it's sweet when you consider the intention behind it. It isn't done out of apathy, but out of care to save the person proposing the action any more complications.

However, things would be simpler for everyone if both parties did and said what they meant as opposed to what they thought

their partner would want.

Thank you for sharing your story, though, and wishing me good luck✨*

The only compliments I've heard from him have been second-hand. As in, our mutual friends will tell me that he told them how he finds me attractive and thinks I'm "rad" (God, I hate that word. It makes me think I'm dating a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle...which, in light of recent events, may not be so bad). I brought it up in a light-hearted manner that the nice things he had said about me had gotten back to me, and instead of laughing about it, he became VERY awkward and immediately changed the subject.

Oh well, such is life.

Thanks for your perspective on matters, 25th.

@virg_goki

This is definitely the first time I've been this invested in a boy before. Prior to this, I went from one boy to one another, no emotional attachment, and had little issue 'dating' more than one at once (granted, they felt comfortable with that arrangement).

I don't know what it is with him that has made me want to become more serious, but it's a little disappointing to feel that the first time I make myself vulnerable is also the time I'm setting myself up to potentially get really, really hurt.

Part of the reason with why I was so guarded and emotionally distant from the people I dated beforehand was a defense mechanism to serve my immense fear of ending up broken hearted.

Like you would with any other guy, \"fuck it or what\"?

Posted by sorti-fantastic poney
Like you would with any other guy, \"fuck it or what\"?

Very direct.

Might as well just link him to this thread.
I'm certain he'll love reading 25th's posts.

The fact that you're hearing things second hand, shows he doesn't believe in himself.

Hell, I'd be baffled If you were into me too. I think he's teetering between trying to show his emotions and not look like a wuss infront of you.

Fear of loss can drive people to belittle themself and make them over cautious. He sounds like a younger, less experienced me.

I wish he were comfortable enough to show his emotions. I've told him on several occasions that I would love for him to open up. I understand how difficult this is for someone so introverted, but I would hope that he knows by now I wouldn't think less of him for it. On the contrary, I'd think a great deal more!

Man, with all the guessing I've done, it feels like I'm dating Criss Angel because I keep getting Mind Freak'd!

Posted by domino_O

Posted by Cajunspirit

Posted by LibraLove
Alright, so in our relationship, we've been treading rocky waters for some time now. I'm so exhausted with all of the guess work that's required, and how much effort seems to be coming exclusively from my side.

Another problem; "SEEMS detached." He internalizes so much, that other than me intuitively knowing how he feels, he never expresses his happiness or sadness to me.

Libras are often guilty of this too.
He just might be following the pace you set.

What are you talking about? She is telling you something else and based on astrology you are assuming something else? It is clear she is pushing it and not "feeling", i.e., her opinion, that it isn't being reciprocated. Probably due to her not getting what she wants.

What you stated does not even remotely reflect what she said.

You say yourself be patient, and then you are saying she is being patient, i.e., she is being detached, internalizes a lot, etc., those are related to patience in your terms. Her pace does not reflect what the hell you are saying.

._. like seriously?

click to expand

so, yeah, as a fellow libra, i totally agree with what cajun is saying here. i was gonna say the same thing. we tend to hold back A LOT when we like somebody. or really, in general. we don't like giving them things they can use against us. we're diplomats. we want to win in the negotiations. we like to be enigmatic. we send mixed messages, even when we think we're being clear. all it takes is a grin, and people will think we're joking.

to the OP, you clearly don't want to break up with him. you clearly like him. you clearly want this to work. stop asking how to break up with him. you need to be honest with yourself about how you feel. you need to trust your instincts about how he feels, even though he holds back so much. if he were coming on strong, i'd say run. virgos rarely come on strong unless they're bullshitting you. there's a reason virgos fall for sagittarians so damn much, and it's NOT because they're compatible. it's because the sags come on STRONG, and virguys need that. libras barely come off at all. a sag puts it out there, and she's just as likely to pull away and find another adventure.

(i knew i'd get cut off, but it didn't give me the pop up for some reason?)

libras invest a lot of feeling, but hold back on expressing it. we'll even go so far to send contradictory messages. it's fucked up. we're the queens of chill. but to the guys who need girls to come on strong, chill can just come off as disinterested.

virguys will basically go where they are led, if they like the person leading them. it's the sign of service. they'll do what you want, when you want it. kind of like libra, actually, but for different reasons.

you need to open up before you can expect him to open up. and you need to be honest about what you want. you need to be honest with yourself about WHY you want it. he's ignoring the social norms that you expect him to follow. like compliments. you know damn well how cocky libras can be. you don't need him to reassure you of how awesome you are.

you need to boss him around more. the libra version, i mean. lol. an aqua will come off as bossy just chitchatting and straight up domineering when she's telling somebody what to do. the libra idea of bossy is more along the lines of speaking up and being clear. to most people, it sounds pretty neutral. only we hear it as bossy.

you're letting him decide too many things. you need to be able to say "ok, you're my boyfriend now". or start introducing him to people as your boyfriend. shit like that. you can't let him decide. if you let them make a choice, they become afraid that they'll make the wrong choice and they'll look stupid. the fact that he chooses to even speak to you and be around you is about all he's willing to risk. and if other people knew what a big deal THAT is, he probably wouldn't even do that.

and like i said elsewhere, if you want him to compliment you, tell him to admit that he thinks you're hot/rad/smart/whatever. tease him a little. they eat that shit up. don't act like you need it. libras can get a long way pretending to need stuff we don't, but with virgos it's best to be like "i know you want to". because they fucking do. or you have to just tell him. then he can pretend he's being bossed around, when really you're just reading his mind. lol.

note: while i totally back my advice, i probably wouldn't take it. libras are such shit at taking good advice. we'd rather vacillate til time decides for us.

Posted by domino_O

Posted by curious visitor


so, yeah, as a fellow libra, i totally agree with what cajun is saying here. i was gonna say the same thing. we tend to hold back A LOT when we like somebody. or really, in general. we don't like giving them things they can use against us. we're diplomats. we want to win in the negotiations. we like to be enigmatic. we send mixed messages, even when we think we're being clear. all it takes is a grin, and people will think we're joking.

You are taking what was said out of context.

LL states characteristics of the "Virgo". Cajun states that Libras are guilty of this too. This implies that in his opinion she is being detached, internalized, and going in a slow pace; these characteristics are the route of her current situation. He then later states that she should slow down.

Do you see the contradiction? He is inserting information that did not exist in her current situation. If I have misinterpreted his response then he is stating irrelevant information.

click to expand

caj has experience with libra women. so he knows from personal experience how reserved and passive we can be, and how it's very easy for a virgo to feel hurt by the miscommunication this creates.

she is going at a slow pace in her behavior, while moving too fast in her expectations of him. that's how i read what he said, and i agree with that. if she wants him to move faster, she needs to come on stronger, consistently over time, and wait for him to feel safe enough to open up more.

so no, i don't see any contradiction.

libra needs fairy tale to be honest with herself and him about how she really feels, without detaching and talking like an anthropoligist studying an exotic culture's mating rituals. virgo needs her to be honest about her feelings before he'll give her the fairy tale. one of them has to break. virgos will do all sorts of things, but this isn't a compromise they make. like, ever. so she has to start it. that's just how it is. otherwise, it's a stalemate.

ending it and running away is usually a lot easier for a libra than dropping the facade of chillness. but if she really likes him, she needs to work on showing him her real self, in all its tempestuous glory. libra emotions are like a tsunami. in open ocean, it's just another wave, but as i

Posted by domino_O

Posted by curious visitor


libras invest a lot of feeling, but hold back on expressing it.

Based on her perspective alone, I do not see where you are getting this?

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she is expressing it to us. she might feel like she is expressing it to him. virgos need girls to come on strong. she is a libra. unless she feels like she's bashing him over the head with all her demands and affection, she is holding back. this is why i used the sagittarian woman example. virguys like them because they come on so strong. they're almost always very incompatible with one another. but virguys like them because they throw themselves at men shamelessly. libras are very reserved. and yes, i'm definitely getting that from what she said.

Posted by curious visitor

libras invest a lot of feeling, but hold back on expressing it. we'll even go so far to send contradictory messages. it's fucked up. we're the queens of chill. but to the guys who need girls to come on strong, chill can just come off as disinterested.

Yup

you need to open up before you can expect him to open up. and you need to be honest about what you want. you need to be honest with yourself about WHY you want it. he's ignoring the social norms that you expect him to follow. like compliments. you know damn well how cocky libras can be. you don't need him to reassure you of how awesome you are.

Ding ding ding!!!
We have a winner 🙂

you need to boss him around more. the libra version, i mean. lol. an aqua will come off as bossy just chitchatting and straight up domineering when she's telling somebody what to do. the libra idea of bossy is more along the lines of speaking up and being clear. to most people, it sounds pretty neutral. only we hear it as bossy.

Bingo

if you let them make a choice, they become afraid that they'll make the wrong choice and they'll look stupid.

Oh my... you know too much lol

but with virgos it's best to be like "i know you want to". because they fucking do. or you have to just tell him. then he can pretend he's being bossed around, when really you're just reading his mind. lol.

Bravo

note: while i totally back my advice, i probably wouldn't take it.
libras are such shit at taking good advice.
we'd rather vacillate til time decides for us.

click to expand

*standing ovation*

Libras always seem to make the wrong choices...

Posted by 25thDecan
Send him to me and you'll get laid......

Lol...I love you Decan!

Alright, I spoke to him! The talk went really, REALLY well.

I approached him, led us to a nice secluded nook outside, and eased into things.
I asked him how his weekend went, knowing he'd ask about mine. When he did, I used it as an opportunity to tell him that I spent the weekend thinking about certain things I wanted to talk to him about now.

I basically told him that I'm at a place where I want something more serious. I've done the casual thing, and I'm through with it. I understand that due to his past heartaches, he'd be hesitant to pursue a real relationship, but I don't want to be strung along. We should address where we're at and let the other know where we're coming from, or else we'll both be plagued by ambiguity. I know what I want and I want to give him an opportunity to tell me what he wants. If it's the same thing as me, awesome, we can continue seeing one another--if not, that'll suck initially, but we'll have closure and be able to move on.

I also told him to take his time and think about things, since I understand me springing this on him is overwhelming. I've had a lot of time to ruminate over these matters, and it's only fair he's given as much time to consider them.

He'd told me he's really glad I brought this up since it's so difficult for him to speak about these things, and that he knows he doesn't always show how much he likes me, but he would really like to be my boyfriend. I told him I appreciate that, but he should go home, think about it as much as he can, and then reach a decision. I don't want for him to feel pressured into any choice.

Anyways, I just got home, checked my messages, and found this link from him:

He knows how much I love cheesy boybands, so I thought that was sweet haha.

And thank you for everyone who actually bothered to read through all the "woe is me" rants in this thread and gave feedback!

He doesn't know how to bring things up in that regard. He's very intelligent. He could discuss politics, religion, philosophy, etc. to a great depth, with perfect articulation, but when it comes to conversations that deal with feelings, he's at a loss for words. Or rather, I speculate, he has so many words circulating in his mind, that he doesn't know which ones to use. He's a bit of a perfectionist as well. If he can't use the IDEAL words, he'd rather not use any.

He said that he would officially like to be my boyfriend. He expressed he was scared before, and he didn't really know why. One concern he had is that, even though he can conjecture from my personality so far that I wouldn't be like this,he wouldn't want a needy girlfriend. He wouldn't want to become that couple that spends ALL of their time together. Well, I don't want to be that couple either! It's very important for me that the people involved in a relationship maintain their own independence and socialize outside of themselves. He was relieved to hear that, and from there, we talked about what we want from a relationship, and our expectations coincided with one another.

I feel like we're finally beginning to see eye-to-eye; hopefully neither of us will be blindsided!

Libralove: I think you should move on. Do you really want to give your virginity to this wishy washy dude? I think 5 months is plenty of time for him to have moved from his prior heartbreak and give you ALL his attention. You are young and beautiful. I know you have strong feelings for him LL, but there are a lot of guys that would LOVE to be with you and show you how they feel every day. Make you feel beautiful, loved and cherished. You deserve it!! You should not have to guess at what a man is thinking. He is not worth it.

wow. domino. you are so fucking off, it's scary. you don't seem to understand her situation at all. and you aren't even trying. something must be bothering you in your own life for you to read so many wrong things into someone else's situation.

He didn't give me a "wishy washy" response; he clearly articulated to me that, yes, he would like to be my boyfriend. He told me that he doesn't want me to think him saying it immediately after our talk is because he feels pressured to, but rather because he wants to. Regardless, I told him to go home and think about it.
When I got home and checked my messages, he gave me another indication (sending that video, despite its cheesiness) that he really would like to be together.

Yes, I mentioned he pushes a sexual agenda, but most guys this age typically do. That doesn't make his actions right, but it makes them more understandable in the greater scope of things. Additionally, he's a lot more confident and secure when it comes to sexuality, so it's something that's easier for him to express. He has this dichotomy where he's sooo reserved and shy in the public realm, but very extroverted and self-assured in private matters, such as kissing and other sexual acts (tmi, I know, sorry).

Like I mentioned earlier, he is affectionate, but with his actions, rather than words. I took issue with this since I'm somebody that prefers verbal indications. His lack of words made me insecure when we weren't in an "official" relationship, but knowing that he wants to take things seriously makes it easier for me to overcome my petty need for compliments. I can now appreciate what he shows me, rather than tells me.

I'm certain we'll run into other issues in the future, just because our communicative approaches are so different, but recently, he's made an effort to be more open. I'm the type of person that when I deem someone worth my time, I'm not willing to let them go so easily. I'm more prone to trying to find a resolution and discover a compromise that suits both parties best.

I didn't classify his affection as sexual signs. When we're out in public, he'll lean over and kiss my cheek. He'll always extend his palms to hold my hand. He'll coyly kiss the tops of my shoulders, or when we're holding hands, he'll raise mine and kiss the back of it. When we're sitting down, he'll scoot over closer to me, or physically pull me in closer to him.
And he does like to just cuddle without any sexual precursor. And of course there is "that look," where he'll just stare at me in a certain way. It's these little things that I undervalued because I was so hung up on him not being able to tell me to my face if he finds me appealing.

I'm young, and with age, granted a certain degree of stupidity/obliviousness, but I wouldn't ever stay with someone who I felt was using me. If he were only interested in the sexual facets of a relationship, don't you think what I mentioned above would seem superfluous? And he's an attractive guy. If he wanted to go and have no-strings-attached sex, he presumably would not have chosen to stay with me and instead, would have found someone who isn't asking him to wait.

When I made this thread, I wrote it with the bias to state all of the negative attributes first, probably to convince myself that it'd be best I move on. But with further deliberation, I realized that I wouldn't be happy with that choice.

Posted by CappyLuv30

"But that is based on my moral system, a true relationship consists of: emotions"

Actually any relationship that is lead by pure emotions is just as bad as urges. To me, they're relative. What this guy needs to do is show her commitment. Hands down. LibraLove, you need this man to tell you straight up ,b>"YOU ARE MY GIRLFRIEND AND I AM YOUR BOYFRIEND"....until it is spoken to you like that, where even my 8 year old niece would comprehend then it's clear as mud :-/

.

He did state it that clearly when we spoke yesterday :} . His trepidation about commitment stemmed from his heartbreak due to past relationships. The fact that he's willing to put himself in a position where he knows he might get hurt again is impactful to me. We're making ourselves vulnerable to one another and trusting that the other doesn't handle our emotions haphazardly.

"When I made this thread, I wrote it with the bias to state all of the negative attributes first, probably to convince myself that it'd be best I move on. But with further deliberation, I realized that I wouldn't be happy with that choice."


LL: So glad you are going to work things out. You are of course ultimately in control of whatever decision you make. Sometimes its good to hash things over a little to get a better perspective...Good Luck with your Virgo, hope mine lasts as long as yours...(fingers crossed).

@TheLadySagittarius Thank you! Best of luck to you in your endeavors with your Virgo, too. 😉

@domino_OHe's sexual, but it doesn't outweigh his affection. I have the best idea of what goes on between us, and like I mentioned earlier, I can see how my initial bias would given the wrong impression. However, from what I can assess, he does little non-sexual things far more frequently than the sexual.

I never mentioned he isn't a social butterfly. I remarked on the fact that he's reserved, meaning he's more prone to be conventional about how he treats me in public. The reservations I brought up were in reference to him in a romantic sense; my mistake for not clearing things up. In terms of friends, he's in a fairly popular local band, and has waaay more friends than I do. He isn't loud and obnoxious, but he's also not a hermit haha.

Hope that cleared things up.

Posted by domino_O
Where wishy washy is stemming from. Like is a very informal term. It isn't direct, it isn't absolute.

to feel inclined; wish

He feels inclined to have a relationship with you. He wishes for it to happen. He doens't "want" per say the relationship, but he does wish. Which is a desire to have something. Something he could do without but doesn't want to force you but desires. In a sense that is par. But for 5 months, he is just doing what you want him to do, he wants to eff you but will do it on your terms.

click to expand

I'm not quite certain where you're drawing this from. His response about what he wanted was neither "wishy washy" nor diluted; it was direct. He said "I'm really glad we had this talk, and I want to be your boyfriend. I know now it might look like I'm saying it just in the moment, but I hope you don't think that. I really do want us to be boyfriend and girlfriend."

And later, he even asked if I would be his girlfriend after our initial conversation.

Posted by domino_O
It is as clear as day:

He always avoids emotional aspects and opts to push a sexual agenda instead.

He has this dichotomy where he's sooo reserved and shy in the public realm...

click to expand

These statements run in the same vein for him (no, not that vein).
You can't discard the last half of the second comment I made, because it provides context to the first half.
He's self-assured in private matters, making it much easier for him to bring those to light, because well...he's really good (and knows it) at those things, so he has confidence to draw on in that area.
In the emotional department, he has no confidence left because it's virtually been dried up by his past relationships.

Certainly, there are some things I questioned which I'm justifying now, but what point is there to dwell on the negative when I've already made up my mind?

Posted by domino_O
LL, don't leave out information then. This is what you said after he talked with you.

He'd told me he's really glad I brought this up since it's so difficult for him to speak about these things, and that he knows he doesn't always show how much he likes me, but he would really like to be my boyfriend. I told him I appreciate that, but he should go home, think about it as much as he can, and then reach a decision. I don't want for him to feel pressured into any choice.

click to expand

"Like" and "want" in that context, given what he said, embody the same definition for me.
Just because I didn't provide a word-for-word transcript of what he said doesn't mean I gave a completely different account of things.

I think you may be reading too much into the (non-existent) nuances of what I wrote, but I do appreciate the feedback.

Yes, it is a public board. Where have I made any objections to that? You have as much right to say what you want as I do.

I'm not being argumentative, I'm simply defending my point of view.

I feel as though you're misunderstanding what I wrote and taking it out of context to express something that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

I think we should just agree to disagree, because, while I'm thankful for you taking the time to respond with your perspective on matters, I've already reached a decision that I'm not likely to go back on any time soon.