Virgo Advice Appreciated

To try and cut a long story short, I felt an instant spark for a Virgo male, almost five years ago. Being very shy, and totally unsure of how to approach him, I simply watched and told others that I liked him, who in turn told him, and well, obviously that was not the right way to approach the situation. But anyway, I caught him at a time in his life when he had been going hell, to say the least, and his reaction to my intense interest was to swing between these extremes, giving mixed messages. He would alternately hover around me and watch me, then avoid me completely and tell people he would flush my head down the toilet if I spoke to him. I withdrew for a period of time, got my head together, focussed on my own stuff, but the feelings never went, not over that entire period of time.

Cut to late last year, when I emerged after keeping away for 8 months and he started sitting next to me on benches(not speaking), staring into my eyes, and generally being nearby when I spoke to people. I would look up from my coffee in the mall, and he would just be looking at me, disappearing as soon as I spotted him. I was very confused as he had reacted so differently to me before then.

Anyway, just under four weeks ago, he started talking to an elderly man I chat to a lot, and finally one day, approached the table we were sat at having coffee, and asked both of us how our days had been. Since then, we have spent extensive time together, talking about many, many things, going to various shared interest events, and after 3 weeks he invited me round to his place, where we just sat talking, and he gave me various foods to try. He takes me shopping, encouraging me to change over to eating natural foods and considering he has not had anyone in his place in 15 years, and has remained single for 20 years, because, as he said, he was so involved in so many things and people, I am quite surprised he has trusted me so quickly. (cont)

There are difficulties however. I do not know why, but he is adament that he does not love anyone. He takes a very dim view of romantic love, and the word 'love' in general, and says he does not love anyone, because if he does not love anyone, he cannot hate them. He even at times, tries to suggest he has no feelings at all, even though it is obvious that he does, simply from his eyes and the things he says. I can deal with this, I am quite a strong person and let it wash over me, and accept that is how he is at this point in time.

He has started being quite critical of me, in fact, that started pretty soon in. He kept saying I should not take anyone too seriously, and that I take things too seriously, and that I should get rid of emotions as I'd feel better, lol. I made it clear I would not be changing myself for anyone, emotions and all. Some of the things he says are hurtful. For example, the other day he told me he has not seen me in any clothing that suits me, that suits my unusual features and body structure. It is hard to not take such things to heart, especially as he gives indication afterwards that he knows it will play on my mind.

He walks me home in the evenings, he puts out his arm when we cross roads if something is coming, loves feeding me, and is otherwise great fun to be with, but why oh why, does he comment on such things as my muscular shoulders (which I can't change), my clothing never suiting me, and how he wants to walk down the road with a pretty woman. I cannot work him out at all. I have no idea, to be honest, what the nature of our connection is, how he feels. I take it as it comes. I am a Taurus, with a pisces moon, pisces ascendant, pisces mars, gemini venus/mercury. He was born 1st Sept, virgo sun, leo venus, leo merc, taurus mars, prob leo ascendant. Any advice appreciated, from Virgos.

I'm not a Virgo, but have had experience with several virgo men.

here's the deal...they are very critical of people's flaws...or what THEY (virgo) considers YOUR flaws. you mentioned about how he commented on your clothes and your muscular shoulders etc. I had similar comments directed my way about my weight (which was perfect for my body type (very athletic and as you, more muscular than most women) but still feminine. My virgo guy was obsessed with my weight and actually monitored what i hate. at first, i thought it was just a one time deal. but it got old fast and started pissing me off.
he didn't do this to anyone else. at the time, i thought he hated me but in retrospect, he did it because he liked me. but it embarrassed me and made me feel bad about myself.
there was NO need for him to be this way for so long.

I can't speak for virgo guys on this forum, however, I noted that MOST virgo men who feel the need to critique you so closely often are projecting their own self obsessions/insecurities etc. they want everyone to be perfect and think as they do. yet rarely do virgo men ever consider that maybe they should consider other people's opinions etc a bit more often. it's just the way they are wired.

honestly, i'd be very offended if some guy from any sign knocked my looks, build, emotions, passions, experiences when considering he was so lacking in personal relationships for so many years. how can he question your emotions/perspectives when in fact, he was limited by his own?

You come across as a strong, confident and centered individual. If anyone in the scenario needs some refinement and advice, this guy does imho. I would walk away so fast from this guy because if he's already criticizing you without having a clear relationship with you, do you think it's going to get better when you date more?

Relationships are about appreciating your date/partner's personal characteristics and flaws. It's about connecting and making each other feel good about them self. It's about sharing and building cohesive bonds. Reading your post about how he has treated and judged you thus far, do you really think he's relationship material? There are too many good men out there for you to limit yourself to someone who berates your build and your emotions. Life, life and pursuit of happiness is ABOUT emotion. That's what makes us human. Maybe you should remind him of that fact. If he wants a relationship with someone is who NON EMO

darn got cut off again.

meant to say, life, love and the pursuit of happiness is about emotion. that's what makes us human. if this guy wants a non emotional being to date, he should consider a vulcan.

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
I don't know why he is as he is. He is not a young man, he is actually 52 years old.
But he did grow up in a pretty unpopulated area, and has seemingly, according to himself, never even felt close to his family. He is aware that he is a bit bad for some of his ways, or that is how he puts it, that he is wicked sometimes for having not kept regular contact with his family. I am pretty sure he has feelings, he can tell me until he is blue in the face that he does not feel, but it is quite obvious to me he does when he talks about some very bad experiences he had a few years ago, where he was attacked physically. Maybe this might be a turning point for him? I don't know. I am accepting things as they come, although obviously if he became too mean, I would have to put my foot down or express my hurt in a more obvious way to him. I don't see signs that he actually sets out to hurt me, there are too many things he does that are decent and giving for me to believe that for a moment. I simply don't think he has ever attempted to control his critical tongue and has allowed himself the extremes, without allowing himself to consider the impact on the feelings of others. I have at times wondered if he is on the autistic spectrum too, actually, because of this apparent lack of empathy. I think he would have to actually visually see an emotional reaction, to understand the impact of his words. I think his words have bought him a lot of trouble in his past, including yes, violence from others. I told him he most likely hits peoples nerves when he is so outspoken, and he isn't just outspoken, he doesn't think at all before he says things usually. He has been ejected from Art galleries for his outspoken criticisms, lol. I myself used to be quite outspoken and got myself into trouble for it, but it is something I have learnt to tame, because you learn that it does affect others' feelings and can bite you in the backside in the long run.

I have known other Virgos, and I never run into such an extreme of criticism with them. I suppose to be fair, it isn't that often he does say something hurtful to me. He does seem to be getting slightly better about it. I told him that some of the things he says hurt and that I don't let him know because I do not want conflict. I really dislike conflict and anger, so I guess I have my own stuff to deal with in that sense. Maybe we can help each other, who knows?

Yes Decan, he is a highly, highly intelligent man, I just think he has not had any level of closeness with anyone his entire life, just about. I do not know why that is changing at this point in time, but he admitted tonight that it seems to be since he has been inviting me round, the first person in twenty years. I am a strong willed person and will certainly point out when he oversteps the mark, but in a way that is non conflictual. (The Pisces in me hates conflict totally) For the most part, I am enjoying time spent with this man immensely. He also tells me he enjoys the time we spend together. Everyone is a work in progress, though not everyone makes much effort to improve more negative qualities in themselves.

I just joke about a lot of his ways. For example, he gets a bit obsessive about hygiene and germs, and so I would joke about how I could see him running around his place, spraying everything I had sat on with disinfectant, lol. If I can simply bring some added joy into his life, by being in his life, that is a good thing to me. I am not the kind of person to just walk away at the first hint of an issue. I prefer to gently broach the subject and try and work through things by communicating. After waiting five years, always keeping small hope that one day he would talk, I am not about to stop now. If he does indeed decide that he is happiest alone, then I shall accept that, but I will always be there for him at some level. That is just the way I am, for better or for worse.

Finding it quite tough going at this point in time, with this man.
He was so critical tonight, of absolutely everything. He criticises absolutely everything, giving a negative slant on anything such as television, films, computers, theatre...everything. He says how everything is all the same, and if there is anything he can criticise, he will, and we are talking major, major way. Tonight he said how friends aren't real and that they are just an image thing. He says a lot of things are image things, even going out to a restaurant. I have honestly not ever met anyone so cynical and who seems to see no wonder or joy in anything really. I consider myself to be pretty strong, I am very controlling of my own emotions, so I was sat there for several hours working very hard at not crying.(something I don't do all that often in truth) When he later mentioned he had noticed I looked down and depressed, and all of this, he again told me I should change and get rid of my emotions. The issue is, I myself already struggle with this at times, thinking I am weak for having or showing emotions, so when he says that, it just drives in deeper this sense that my being sensitive and still having the capacity to be hurt by the words of others, makes me a weak and rather sad person.

I am definitely going to have to take a break from him for a while to gather myself, as I am at a more emotionally vulnerable time, and can see issues arising (ie - bursting into tears under the barage of criticisms). It isn't that he is exactly criticising me, but his words in a sense, suck all the joy out of the things I enjoy in life, making them appear pointless and meaningless. I don't judge him, this is the way he is, or has become over the years for some reason, but I have no idea how to react when he is tearing apart everything and anything, with no regard at all to the effect it might have on another. He only realises the impact when he is done with the outpouring and realises the mood has changed to this heavyness on my part, because yes, I am human and i do get impacted if I am hearing endless negative judgements of everything from friendship, to marriage, to theatre to astronomy. Something has to give, and although he seemed eager to see me again tomorrow evening, I honestly think it is best I walk away for now as I am not strong enough to deal with back to back criticisms of the things I love doing and that bring me pleasure in what has been a very difficult life.

Posted by 25thDecan
if he critiques, call him on it and nip it in the bud. Ie "babe, I am who I am. If you care, don't mold me into what I'm not"

You're giving a guy who is such a loner, the opportunity to be loved

Yes. Good points. If he is going to critque you then he should be able to handle it when you laugh and say, "hey, so my shoulders are muscular, huh? You've been alone for how long? My shoulders shouldn't even be an issue babe." LoL. No, don't say that.....Hahaha! But yea, I agree with Decan.

Posted by Grael1975
There are difficulties however. I do not know why, but he is adament that he does not love anyone. He takes a very dim view of romantic love, and the word 'love' in general, and says he does not love anyone, because if he does not love anyone, he cannot hate them. He even at times, tries to suggest he has no feelings at all, even though it is obvious that he does, simply from his eyes and the things he says. I can deal with this, I am quite a strong person and let it wash over me, and accept that is how he is at this point in time.

He has started being quite critical of me, in fact, that started pretty soon in. He kept saying I should not take anyone too seriously, and that I take things too seriously, and that I should get rid of emotions as I'd feel better, lol. I made it clear I would not be changing myself for anyone, emotions and all. Some of the things he says are hurtful. For example, the other day he told me he has not seen me in any clothing that suits me, that suits my unusual features and body structure. It is hard to not take such things to heart, especially as he gives indication afterwards that he knows it will play on my mind.

He walks me home in the evenings, he puts out his arm when we cross roads if something is coming, loves feeding me, and is otherwise great fun to be with, but why oh why, does he comment on such things as my muscular shoulders (which I can't change), my clothing never suiting me, and how he wants to walk down the road with a pretty woman. I cannot work him out at all. I have no idea, to be honest, what the nature of our connection is, how he feels. I take it as it comes. I am a Taurus, with a pisces moon, pisces ascendant, pisces mars, gemini venus/mercury. He was born 1st Sept, virgo sun, leo venus, leo merc, taurus mars, prob leo ascendant. Any advice appreciated, from Virgos.

Lord have mercy girl.....he is a what? A virgo? With leo in venus, mercury AND ascendant— And you are a who? Taurus with pisces in moon, mars and ascendent. You match on so many levels. Except on the pisces and leo ascendants between you two. Virgos and taurus are supposed to be good matches. Both earth signs but with you have so much pisces in your chart, that is what is making his critical eye more unbearable for you. He has not matured enough to use tact.


Do you know why it took him so long to approach you? He wa

(Cut me off)....He was shy/insecure. He didn't know whether or not you liked him. He would come close and stare but he was too afraid of being rejected. He used the old man to get to you. It only takes one initial conversatin to get the ball rolling. You are probably a sweet woman. He plays on that fact. Everything that he is insecure about is being thrown on you. He may not mean to do that and that is what is unfortunate. See with virgos we like to say things in jest a lot. Our sense of humor can be a little dry and it takes someone with a great sense of humor to grasp it. You need to just let his a $ $ know. Don't sit there and allow it to continue. Trust me, when he is home alone in his bed he is probably saying to himself, "I am going to try and sweep her off of her feet tomorrow." At times he becomes aware of what he is doing and really wants to try not to be so critical then he defeats himself. You are going to shock the hell out of him when you start telling him that you don't like it when he talks about your body in that way. Don't start an arguement. Don't raise your voice, but be serious though. Let him know this, "You cannot dress me. You never will be able to. Before we started going out, you saw my damn shoulders and the way that I dressed. Where are you now?"

If he tells you that he doesn't believe in love and that you shouldn't take things so seriously, tell him that his point of view is how he sees things. Tell him that you listen to advice but you always come to your own conclushion.

Anyway, in a nutshell, virgos are known for criticism. But they are also known for taking someone for who they are. He wouldn't be with you if he didn't. Just speak up.

Thanks Mercury girl. I am pretty strong willed, fortunately and tend to bounce back. To give him credit, he does at least tell me not to take anything he says seriously, and I am trying not to. He seems to swing between being slightly softer and making an effort to curb his criticisms, to out and out critical mode where everything in the world seems to be wrong. He often says 'now you know why I had no visitors for 20 years'. There has been no talk of what exactly we are, in terms of friends, acquaintances or more. It doesn't bother me too much, as we just seem to get on with it and come together most days at the moment. Tonight he said that his bike had been his wife, and it was more useful than a woman,lol. That is the sort of comment he often comes up with, and 'why would I need a wife?', out of the blue... nothing I say brings on these spoken out loud thoughts. To use a terrible cliche, I followed my heart when it comes to him, and followed it for a long time. The reason he initially did not speak to me was that, well, being quite shy myself, and also fearful of rejection,instead of outright approaching him, I sort of hovered wherever he was, which in turn made him think I was a stalker and well, it is quite amusing really; he says it is certainly an interesting way to meet someone. Initially he ran away, and then after a few years, I sort of disappeared, and it was when I emerged again that he began to observe me and walk around me, and keep making eye contact, as if he was trying to work me out.

A lot of people locally know about the situation, as we both went to a place where the staff tend to gossip. I told them I liked him, and he told them I stalked him and so you can imagine their reaction on seeing us walking around together after such a long time. I knew we would clash on some things. I am quite sensitive at heart, and I like to live in a dream world at times, and have a passion for music, theatre and film. He, for some reason, turned his back on all of that some years ago to try a life with next to nothing material in it, even though he is quite obsessive about money and beating the money system. I presume he must find something interesting in me, to be spending so much time with me, having never been close to anyone in all those years. I try to speak up, and joke back. I think I am worried about scaring him off if I become too serious when he upsets me. In ways he is an unknown quantity to me, yet in others I feel I know him so well. App

How old is this guy? That is totally effed up that he is telling people that you are stalking him. He cottles his negative traits more than his positive ones. He said that his bike is his wife? The next time he asks why would he need a wife, say, "you don't....." and ask him about a current event on the news. Just dismiss the ish. He is afraid of getting hurt so he is hurting you with the types of things that he is saying. What he is really saying is that he doesn't think that anyone would love him enough to marry someone like him. I notice that everytime you respond to something that someone has said on this thread, you reply with a very long explanation. You're an open book and it is clear that this relationship (or whatever it is) is not healthy for you. You might say that you are strong but you are justifying his negative behavior. With this type of guy, why would you worried about scaring him off?

He is 52. From what I can gather, he has only had one relationship, a long time ago, that involved a child. He does not say I am stalking him anymore, he did that early on when I seemed to be everywhere he was. I do tend to give long replies, it is just the way I am, quite verbal. I do not feel damaged by the relationship, it does not leave me going home in tears, or getting upset that much at all to be honest. It has only been the odd thing that has left me feeling a bit hurt. I would be more concerned were he constantly saying these negative things,with nothing positive to balance it out, but it isn't constant and he does say some positive things too. I don't know I used the right turn of phrase about scaring him off... I think like many with a lot of Pisces, I fear any conflict and so avoid it as far as I can. Remember, we have only actually been talking and spending time together since the beginning of March, not all that long really. But yes, I know I have to put my foot down when he says things I consider unacceptable personally, or he will continue doing it and thinking it is ok. Legacy of spending most of his life alone, other than acquaintances, I suppose. Obviously if he becomes too intolerable for me and it does become unhealthy, I shall have to step away and let him be alone. I do sometimes wonder if maybe that is the only way that is suited to him, given the time he has spent alone.