Message Posts by DoThatSaggie
Posted by R1g0rM0rT1s
you mean to heal from the feelings associated with the memories? they're not illusions, they're very real. it's like when you catch a smell from something or have a deja-vu experience and it takes you back to a specific memory and you find yourself feeling the way you felt then.
it fades with time. no-one can ever say how long. it depends on the nature of whatever it was that caused the pain.
i think when it's someone close you has unintentionally hurt, the fact that you 'didn't mean it' is neither here nor there. in some respects it's worse that you did it unintentionally cos it means you failed to understand him well enough to KNOW if it was gonna hurt him.
it's a toughie but i don't know what happened...i'm only basing what i say on what you tell us.
Oh I see. It could also mean he doesn't know me well enough to take offense, knowing I never want to hurt him. You know like if someone says a comment, you take it the wrong way and in that moment decide if that's what the person meant. You think of who the person is and realize, it's not them, it's you because you choose your reaction. in that moment decide that person never hurt you before and has always wanted what was best for you.
Posted by R1g0rM0rT1s
last time i checked i wasn't a man BUT.....i think the answer is open and honest communication.
to let go of anything you have to drag it from inside you and put it out there. it's a process that can take time but often, if it's a love situation where that love is deep that time can help you remember where that love came from
So acknowledgement is ideal? How about when it's clear the hurt caused wasn't with bad intent and you forgive but the idea or image is still there. What are ways to heal from the illusions?
If someone hurt you not intentional really bad but you never told them and they truly had no idea and you finally express that hurt as well as your own contribution to the cause that lead to falling out of love although you still love the person, what is your healing process to let the hurt go and move forward with the person with a new start/connection, who obviously loves you deeply and you also love deeply? Men answers preferred.
Posted by MrFirebird
Ok thank you for the clarification.
At this time, I am considering/thinking/suspecting the following:
1) He loves you and cares about you and doesn't want to hurt you
2) He is trying to get you to leave him so he can deal with whatever it is he is facing.
"Find someone else who is better for you"
I'd put $ 500 down that says that he's
a)a closet queen/bi
b) a philanderer (friends with benefits)
c) someone who has a mission in life.
d) got religion and is trying to change his ways according to his faith.
e) simply downright scared of the responsibilities of a family.
f) he's joined the Intelligence Community
g) testing your commitment to the relationship
h) fill in the blank
He wants out of the relationship, but he wants you to be emotionally adjusted to break it
up, hence the head games, because he sincerely doesn't want to hurt you but he is ravaged
by his demons. You can try to save him or you can turn your back on him and go your own
separate ways.
You might use that list and ask him, IN PERSON, not over the phone or text, so you can see
how he reacts. The reaction in his expression that stands out the most is likely to be the one.
He may or may not confess.
Just be prepared to be hurt. But know the pain will subside at some point and whatever happens,
will happen, thereafter.
All I can say I am sorry to hear of your heartaches.
Thank you for this FireBird.
Posted by MrFirebirdPosted by DoThatSaggiePosted by MrFirebird
"Ok. Also note the previous post of cheating was him playing mind games. He didn't ever cheat, just very mad at me and made it up."
Ok a clarification request at this time:
In your original post, you said:
"He does Kee mentioning not being obligated to anyone."
Please elaborate and clarify that sentence, for me.
I will try to find that post about cheating/mind games in the meantime.
It's "He keeps mentioning not being obligated to anyone."
That seems to be a common term used for not wanting a relationship. It seems he has gotten into this thing about being selfish for himself, as if having a relationship hold too much work an obligation etc for him. We have been together for many years, he caused the complications in the relationship with making me upset. I learned later in the End were all games to make me mad an leave, why wouldnt he just leave before, well your guess is good as mine. he also expressed he felt I didn't care for him or whatever. I could choke him. He is trying to figure out why did he do that as well as why did he allow it to carry on so long.
Specific Clarification Requested
what is Kee?
a drug???
click to expand
It's a typo. The word should be "keeps"
Posted by MrFirebird
"Ok. Also note the previous post of cheating was him playing mind games. He didn't ever cheat, just very mad at me and made it up."
Ok a clarification request at this time:
In your original post, you said:
"He does Kee mentioning not being obligated to anyone."
Please elaborate and clarify that sentence, for me.
I will try to find that post about cheating/mind games in the meantime.
It's "He keeps mentioning not being obligated to anyone."
That seems to be a common term used for not wanting a relationship. It seems he has gotten into this thing about being selfish for himself, as if having a relationship hold too much work an obligation etc for him. We have been together for many years, he caused the complications in the relationship with making me upset. I learned later in the End were all games to make me mad an leave, why wouldnt he just leave before, well your guess is good as mine. he also expressed he felt I didn't care for him or whatever. I could choke him. He is trying to figure out why did he do that as well as why did he allow it to carry on so long.
Posted by MrFirebirdPosted by DoThatSaggiePosted by MrFirebird
I guess you don't want a Scorpio MAN's translation, after all.
Women really know what's like to be a man, you know.
So you can ask them, if you want but... If... you change your mind, you can ask me.
Sure, I've been waiting for your actual input.
Very well, I will begin by saying.... I need a little time.....
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No seriously.click to expand
Ok. Also note the previous post of cheating was him playing mind games. He didn't ever cheat, just very mad at me and made it up.
Posted by MrFirebird
I guess you don't want a Scorpio MAN's translation, after all.
Women really know what's like to be a man, you know.
So you can ask them, if you want but... If... you change your mind, you can ask me.
Sure, I've been waiting for your actual input.
To make sure this doesn't get sidetracked. I am questioning any idea on the behavior?. I don't want to move on just too fast and he is just having a "moment"
Posted by Jynja
Wait. The relationship is done and over with, right? So all the talk is going nowhere?
Not exactly. He still is in contact with me.
Posted by P-AngelPosted by DoThatSaggie
... don't I define the way I want to be loved or not?
You apparently choose "not" since from what you've described, you lay back acting indifferent, waiting for him to decide.
But, the below is what really stands out ....
Posted by DoThatSaggie
He doesn't want intimacy with me because of the emotions, he rather be with others with no emotion he says. But frankly it's not about being with someone else.
You don't seem to mind that he doesn't want to be intimate with you, in fact, you've made an excuse as to why it is acceptable to you, and you even say that it's not about him being with someone else.
The problem with your relationship is in the fact that you don't care, and that is paramount to a Scorpio. If you don't give a shit about his intimacy ... then you're yesterdays news.click to expand
I didn't say this. This is what he told me himself. I do in fact mind but if we are not together what am I supposed to do, it's his decision. I'm questioning the reason being.
When I say "indifferent", I'm saying I never pressured him for marriage. If he wants to we can, I'm all for it but if he doesn't want to that is fine also.
Posted by ellessquePosted by DoThatSaggiePosted by Sunrays
"What do you do when he is the cookie initiator first? Obviously, I'm the logical one and I compromise more but there are those limits I'm surely not having it, so there, i can't promise to always be PROACTIVE. Not every time. He compromises a lot, I admit. He doesn't want me acting up too much. But the starting point of the discussion is tricky."
You call yourself the logical one and are frustrated that NO logic of yours seems to work in this case. In asking the above question you are trying to see if anyone can give you a logic that you have not thought of yet. Is that correct?
Maybe logic is not the answer! Try someting else that you can wrap your mind and heart around.
I'm referring that I use more intellect on it than that of his emotion. I used logic in the beginning it worked, I just didn't continue because I assumed he got it well enough but overtime I didn't keep up with it, so now there is a cycle of defense on the topic, so yes I'm looking for ways from this point but frustrated, I'm not. I love him we been together more than 5 years, I'm open to new angles although technically this would be the first attempt.
you think he's stupid.
do you also think he hasn't caught on to that?click to expand
Caught on to what? I'm blunt. There was nothing to catch on to. I told him of course.
<"`dbk`e.
Posted by Sunrays
"What do you do when he is the cookie initiator first? Obviously, I'm the logical one and I compromise more but there are those limits I'm surely not having it, so there, i can't promise to always be PROACTIVE. Not every time. He compromises a lot, I admit. He doesn't want me acting up too much. But the starting point of the discussion is tricky."
You call yourself the logical one and are frustrated that NO logic of yours seems to work in this case. In asking the above question you are trying to see if anyone can give you a logic that you have not thought of yet. Is that correct?
Maybe logic is not the answer! Try someting else that you can wrap your mind and heart around.
I'm referring that I use more intellect on it than that of his emotion. I used logic in the beginning it worked, I just didn't continue because I assumed he got it well enough but overtime I didn't keep up with it, so now there is a cycle of defense on the topic, so yes I'm looking for ways from this point but frustrated, I'm not. I love him we been together more than 5 years, I'm open to new angles although technically this would be the first attempt.
Posted by Sunrays
It is so interesting to see how different people tackle the same situations
Always go with your strength.
_??_
Posted by DMVPosted by Sunrays
"the point is NOT to wait for him to go into passive aggressiveness. be proactive!!"
LOL DMV that is a tall order! I cannot say that i have not tried that, but even after all these years i cannot predict his reactions at all times. I restrict myself soo much because of that.
But i agree, regaridng any touchy topic, it is better to go in millimeters rather than taking large inches off the path just because you can. lol
i know why my scorp goes passive agressive. cause im a bitch, i smile and laugh with his friends and not him. those giggles are HIS giggles dammit. i dont spend every waking hour stroking his ego which leaves him feeling insecure. so i throw him a bone every now and then. i go the extra mile when i have to.
its quite easy to manipulate him into staying in a good mood. just have to be genuine about it. imo, if you really like him, youll make the adjustment.click to expand
What do you do when he is the cookie initiator first? Obviously, I'm the logical one and I compromise more but there are those limits I'm surely not having it, so there, i can't promise to always be PROACTIVE. Not every time. He compromises a lot, I admit. He doesn't want me acting up too much. But the starting point of the discussion is tricky.
Posted by Sunrays
I have a scorp husband. I know what you are talking about ;P
Talking does not help with my husband. Talking only means you are trying to make him understand your POV ... so somehow glossing over his feelings in the name of rational talk! just my experience ;P
PA is a good things LOL. At least he is showing you that there is a problem even if it is not helpful. Let him work it out of his system being that way.
Start with accepting him. That means not reacting badly to what he does to irritate you.
Let him finish what he wants to do to irritate you and then approach the situation again! persistence
You might have an idea (at times) as to what could be the bothersome point. Change something regarding that so that he can be comfortable or feel like he is understood or he has the upper hand. After all he is your partner and his wellbeing should be important to you even if he irritates you ;P
Eventually he will get bolder and start pointing you to what you need to change (almost a demand and accusing you of playing with him LOL) That??s ok, look at it as progress. He is now telling you at least what the problem is.
Give take and love .... and hope for the best
I would love to hear if anything else works!
Ah yes, someone who understands. You make good points!
Posted by DMVPosted by DoThatSaggiePosted by ellessque
you are very thick headedI mean that in a nice way.
do you even care why he does it or are you more concerned with him stopping?
what would you do if your child wet the bed every night? simply tell him to stop? there has to be a REASON why he's doing it. something is triggering it. whether it be you directly....something at work....his family....SOMETHING is creating this behaviour in him.
Yes and you don't seem to comprehend very well yourself, fixed in your own ideas by dismissing the facts of my situation. Of course, I would like to know why he carries such a behavior but in order to do this, I would need a technique to discuss it in a mature manner. A starting point. This simple idea, is not so simple when dealing with a person prone to defense. So i can ask again. Considering you seem to know best of how to handle this, what tips would you suggest in having the conversation on the topic. Keep in mind, he gets defensive in non defensive conversations so it is not ideal to ask what or where this is coming from. It must be another route. The reason being is to eliminate a hostile conversation and not get an open calm discussion.
Anyone, who has serious tips to go about discussing the issue with a passive aggressor based on the facts I've stated, feel free to share. Thanks
its a defense mechanism. he is defending himself from something your doing.click to expand
I'm sure he is defending himself for whichever reason I'm unaware of as we'll but what are tips to have the discussion when he goes into defense to determine the cause. A starting point?
Posted by everevolvingepithet
Just explain yourself or whatever you've done and let him listen, none of this passive aggressive malarky. Srs, it's an ancient method of communication/resolution and it works. I think the Victorians were the ones that first brought it to the masses but don't quote me on that one lol.
Please elaborate.
Excuse me, and "get an open calm conversation"*
Posted by ellessque
you are very thick headed
do you even care why he does it or are you more concerned with him stopping?
what would you do if your child wet the bed every night? simply tell him to stop? there has to be a REASON why he's doing it. something is triggering it. whether it be you directly....something at work....his family....SOMETHING is creating this behaviour in him.
Yes and you don't seem to comprehend very well yourself, fixed in your own ideas by dismissing the facts of my situation. Of course, I would like to know why he carries such a behavior but in order to do this, I would need a technique to discuss it in a mature manner. A starting point. This simple idea, is not so simple when dealing with a person prone to defense. So i can ask again. Considering you seem to know best of how to handle this, what tips would you suggest in having the conversation on the topic. Keep in mind, he gets defensive in non defensive conversations so it is not ideal to ask what or where this is coming from. It must be another route. The reason being is to eliminate a hostile conversation and not get an open calm discussion.
Anyone, who has serious tips to go about discussing the issue with a passive aggressor based on the facts I've stated, feel free to share. Thanks
Posted by ninjamu
People can learn to change their perspective if they want to. Nope, it's not easy. I'm a fixed sign as well and have been known to be stubborn. However, even I can be yielding because I make a conscious decision to do so. One can learn to not be passive-aggressive. All it takes is practice. Sometimes it takes me years to fully incorporate a new way of living but I know it can be done and in the end I feel better for it. I still have my moments of condescension but it's mostly reserved during times of hormonal fluctuations. Those who defend these behaviors are not holding themselves accountable to themselves. The excuses are a sign of the refusal to put in the work because it's "too hard".
I agree. I have a fixed moon and changing my mind is never easy but I do know as a person, growth is required therefore no point in holding on to traits that do me no good. I will at least look consider, when I'm not mad at least. The basis of my question is the fact HE HAS practiced communication for the relationship. It worked, he agreed but there has been a LOSS of communication over time and a return of passive aggressive behavior he once had before. So, yes he can do it at his own discretion. What I am trying to get tips on is how to get back to that place, I believe it is loss because of life and career consuming us both and not placing communication #1 as we use to. Now that I have noticed, it's gone on for a great deal of time. Not to say he isn't making great efforts in many others ways.
Posted by ellessque
if passive aggressiveness is in his nature, wouldn't it make more sense to find the root cause to the passive aggressiveness and what triggers it, and work on that, instead of trying to "fix" it?
if i'm provoked, i can be passive aggressive as long as the day is long. that's not going to change. it's not like we say "okay, self, turn on the passive aggressive switch now" like a power ranger
if you piss me off and i can no longer explain to you why your behaviour is pissing me off because it's like talking to a brick wall...I'll become passive aggressive
if you make me uncomfortable and you are not approachable....I'll become passive aggressive
if you say something offensive and I don't know how to confront you...I'll become passive aggressive
if i've reminded you a MILLION times to do something and it still isn't done and I could have done it MYSELF but you INSISTED....I'll become passive aggressive
basically, anytime you piss me off and I want to avoid confrontation.....I'll be a passive aggressive snot.
Yes, this is ideal but if I'm not yelling or confronting and coming from a good place of love and he does this, that is not ideal. That is all in his head. It's fear. Resentment like a teenager has when they know the parent is right but they choose to rebel anyhow, to exert independence or control. Child like. When one partner tries a lot to look at themselves and changes but the other isn't making the same efforts for a healthy communicative relationship, it's difficult. What ways would be good in handling you to even discuss the fear, Elle?
Posted by Samiamascorpio
I dated a fellow Scorpio only once and briefly and it was so intense it was too much. With him it was my way or no way at all, I could not reason with him so I walked away.
However, not to say yours is that level of maddening...
Just be honest, if he's being passive aggressive call him on it.
I myself have always appreciated the cold blunt truth even if it hurts.
He might not be aware of what he's doing, but more than likely he is. You will have to be the mature person and calmly point out his bs right when it happens...and just in case I'd wear a bullet proof vest :p (just kidding)
Yeah I don't think I do this as much anymore to avoid a fight and my time being scarce i think it has contributed to him carrying on more in it. As I mentioned, he did stop this before but over time I didn't reinforce the need to communicate and he has built up this wall of passive aggressiveness, although he vocally express how immature he thinks it is for other to do. I don't think he aware of himself, so I will tell him probably when we both calm. Since he a walking paradox, he goes into not wanting to be in a relationship when mad but when calm expressing how much he doesn't want to give up his relationship.
I think my Scorpio man has began his old behaviors of passive aggression. I'm thinking its partly due to the fact he can't communicate very well. In the beginning we were good with communicating, this was something he was not good at and we worked on. I stressed the importance of being comfortable enough in doing so. I'm finding over years of other distractions in career and life, I think we have developed a pattern of not taking it as serious as we use to which resorted to where we are now. We can talk about anything but the relationship issues or what I define as issues. The constant passive aggressive behavior comes into play. Or shall I call it teenage behavior. Walking out when communicating, getting defensive when the other partner is not confronting nor yelling. The silent treatment for moments of control. He claims he has lost the patience he had before. its butter to me. he doesn't like when someone is passive aggressive with him, yet he does it to me. I don't think he is conscious of seeing him as being the aggressor though. Just learned behavior he got from mom. All that kid stuff. I don't doubt his love for me but we need a resolution to avoid disaster from him or I.
Anyhow, this question is for Scorpio males or anyone who has exprerienced this with a Scorpio and found effective ways to maturely encourage their Scorpio male to get out of the cycle of passive aggression when in fear of not knowing how to handle communication. Please share your techniques. Serious answers only please, thanks.
Anyhow, this question is for Scorpio males or anyone who has exprerienced this with a Scorpio and found effective ways to maturely encourage their Scorpio male to get out of the cycle of passive aggression when in fear of not knowing how to handle communication. Please share your techniques. Serious answers only please, thanks.
I found a very good article that was clearer to me I have shared it here for future reference for any who may like to read. Thanks everyone for the previous feedback.
http://www.anewmode.com/dating-relationships/boyfriend-flirts-women/
http://www.anewmode.com/dating-relationships/boyfriend-flirts-women/
I found a very good article that was clearer to me I have shared it here for future reference for any who may like to read. Thanks everyone for the previous feedback.
http://www.anewmode.com/dating-relationships/boyfriend-flirts-women/
http://www.anewmode.com/dating-relationships/boyfriend-flirts-women/
Posted by LunarMaiden
DTS, if your Scorp is still hanging around random women and is oblivious (or just doesn't care) to your distress then I think it's time you drop him! Have you told him how you feel?
He knows but I don't think he really understands because he isn't bothered by the same stuff as me. He wouldn't get bent out of shape if I didn't what he does because he trust me and secure with himself, so he believes. Also you know you can't demand a scorp to stop doing anything, if they don't feel they doing anything and refuse to cater to what he sees as me being insecure when there is nothing to be insecure about. I don't think he gets it really, I don't want to seem jealous or even possessive because I'm far from that. He tries to reassure me by always letting everyone know I'm his girlfriend and checking in with me because of the situation.
It's a bit complicated because what I am explaining is a surface summary which makes him seem very bad but he is not. The good times far outweigh the bad with us, we rarely disagree except with this and I'm strong willed woman and pretty much things go my way most of the time and he's laid back and goes along with what I want except with this. He cares about what I want but hes a stubborn type and also wants me to trust him like I said I would if I'm going to stay with him. I can't say I'm gonna work it out and still hold it over his head every second. It was my decision to stay since we have invested a lot of time and we have a deep connection. We both have actually grown closer which I didn't think we could get any closer from working out the bad situation. He has many gal friends because that's just him, he attracts people and I understand this and it didn't bother me much untill I see some flirting or found a few with interest, I mean he feels he just don't stop being friends with them because they developed crushes, so its a weird thing to say the least that I can't figure out how I should handle it. I'm really looking for male scorp perspectives.
I am really looking for the perspective of scorp males only please on the issue.
Thank a lot
Thank a lot
Sorry somehow my post made duplicates and I don't know how to delete the others.
Any scorps males perspective on this is appreciated.
Any scorps males perspective on this is appreciated.
I've been with my Scorpio boyfriend for many years. I have this constant circle of upset moments due to his friend girls and what I define as flirting or suggestive comments. I can't figure out what is it all about and why he just won't stop allowing them to do it knowing it pisses me off. If I knew years ago that he had so many gal friends I would have ran. It's so annoying having to basically monitor why is his online gal friends thinking this is ok and he feels no need to correct all of them them or place direct boundaries. He feels he knows he not going to do anything, so its like a game sort of speak I assume with him. He never truly corrects it, for me to find someone flirting from woken in his text inbox is more common then I like. It gets bad as to where he takes my access to it away feeling I'm over reacting since he not exactly flirting back or meeting up but he may have said something that borderline I didn't like.
He has admitted cheating before on me and I forgiven and moving on the best I can. We had a deep relationship and I don't question his love for me. I do want him to stop putting himself in potential situations that can lead to other things with women. This type of thing usually starts simple and nice as friends but for a reason I can't understand he doesn't and i dont know if this because he won't or don't truly know how. He's had plenty of girl before me but I'm the first he has ever been really really serious with and I think this is one element to this issue. I understand the cheating had nothing to do with me as his girlfriend and about him and his own battles and he since found a spiritual understanding regarding the situation and has decided under his own law he doesn't need to act out in pursue in sex with others. This aspect makes it just difficult to not just brush it off since I want the repeat prevented. He has come to terms with himself knowing it will not, not by my demand but his own. So I'm trying to let it be and not hold on to old wounds but as I said, it gets hard with the women. To be fair here, he has addressed some but not all. Any Scorpio males out there can shed light as to how to handle him at this stage? Of course people say what they want and he's an adult and I can't demand how he should talk but there are unsaid rules for respecting a relationship. I don't get what he don't understand as to why I don't appreciate the women.
He has admitted cheating before on me and I forgiven and moving on the best I can. We had a deep relationship and I don't question his love for me. I do want him to stop putting himself in potential situations that can lead to other things with women. This type of thing usually starts simple and nice as friends but for a reason I can't understand he doesn't and i dont know if this because he won't or don't truly know how. He's had plenty of girl before me but I'm the first he has ever been really really serious with and I think this is one element to this issue. I understand the cheating had nothing to do with me as his girlfriend and about him and his own battles and he since found a spiritual understanding regarding the situation and has decided under his own law he doesn't need to act out in pursue in sex with others. This aspect makes it just difficult to not just brush it off since I want the repeat prevented. He has come to terms with himself knowing it will not, not by my demand but his own. So I'm trying to let it be and not hold on to old wounds but as I said, it gets hard with the women. To be fair here, he has addressed some but not all. Any Scorpio males out there can shed light as to how to handle him at this stage? Of course people say what they want and he's an adult and I can't demand how he should talk but there are unsaid rules for respecting a relationship. I don't get what he don't understand as to why I don't appreciate the women.