Spite Club
This topic was created in the Aquarius forum by MellowDee on Thursday, December 7, 2006 and has 14 replies.
Logging into my hotmail acocunt and again came across a pretty insightful article about how to avert the pattern of big rows that tend to dog married couples. I thought it was pretty good anyway and had some simple yet useful and effective tips and guidelines on avoiding the triggers that typically lead to a row.
Anyway here it is:
He who lives without quarreling is a bachelor." ?St. Jerome
You should see a videotape of your last fight. No, not the one you had with that loudmouth at the Giants game. I'm talking about the argument with your wife.
Do you have any idea what you looked like? I do. I recently spent 3 days with some marriage experts, watching couples fight. The arguments were all on tape, so I didn't have to duck any glassware being hurled across the kitchen, but the participants were real couples having real fights. And one thing became very clear: Fighting is a waste of time. Nobody wins. Everyone looks pathetic.
Every marriage has its disagreements, and we all argue about the same handful of issues (mostly money and kids, followed by housework, sex, in-laws, jobs, and time). That doesn't matter. What matters is how you argue. And if the pattern is destructive, it will surely kill a marriage. Bad feelings will crowd out good feelings, until each partner feels like this: An opportunity to be with you is a chance to be hassled instead of loved and supported. That's the tipping point, when things turn sour.
Ninety-three percent of couples who fight dirty will be divorced in 10 years. This statistic comes from therapists who have investigated the causes of marital distress and failure. They videotape couples fighting; then they call these couples years later to see what happened. And what happened is shockingly predictable.
Two marital therapists who've conducted this sort of research at the University of Denver are Howard Markman and Scott Stanley. They now teach couples?both newlyweds and folks who've been married for years?how to fight better, how to clear the air without clearing the room. And they've been remarkably successful. Five years after participating in one of Markman and Stanley's courses, couples are twice as likely to still be together compared with couples who didn't take the course......
Anyway here it is:
He who lives without quarreling is a bachelor." ?St. Jerome
You should see a videotape of your last fight. No, not the one you had with that loudmouth at the Giants game. I'm talking about the argument with your wife.
Do you have any idea what you looked like? I do. I recently spent 3 days with some marriage experts, watching couples fight. The arguments were all on tape, so I didn't have to duck any glassware being hurled across the kitchen, but the participants were real couples having real fights. And one thing became very clear: Fighting is a waste of time. Nobody wins. Everyone looks pathetic.
Every marriage has its disagreements, and we all argue about the same handful of issues (mostly money and kids, followed by housework, sex, in-laws, jobs, and time). That doesn't matter. What matters is how you argue. And if the pattern is destructive, it will surely kill a marriage. Bad feelings will crowd out good feelings, until each partner feels like this: An opportunity to be with you is a chance to be hassled instead of loved and supported. That's the tipping point, when things turn sour.
Ninety-three percent of couples who fight dirty will be divorced in 10 years. This statistic comes from therapists who have investigated the causes of marital distress and failure. They videotape couples fighting; then they call these couples years later to see what happened. And what happened is shockingly predictable.
Two marital therapists who've conducted this sort of research at the University of Denver are Howard Markman and Scott Stanley. They now teach couples?both newlyweds and folks who've been married for years?how to fight better, how to clear the air without clearing the room. And they've been remarkably successful. Five years after participating in one of Markman and Stanley's courses, couples are twice as likely to still be together compared with couples who didn't take the course......
But you don't have to attend one of Markman and Stanley's workshops?or even read their book, Fighting for Your Marriage?to improve your relationship. Just start practicing these five strategies for keeping your arguments under control.
1. Stay Off the Escalator
The first sign of destructive fighting is what Markman and Stanley call escalation. The idea is simple: Even though you and your wife may start out arguing about something small, inevitably tempers flare, voices get louder, and that "little thing" disappears in an exchange of big threats.
To avoid such encounters, Markman and Stanley suggest a technique called "active listening," in which partners take turns talking and paraphrasing what the other is telling them ("What I hear you saying is . . ."). Yes, you'll feel dorky and self-conscious when you do this, but in a way that's the point. Active listening slows you down, makes you listen to what the other person is really saying, and stops you from blasting away with both barrels.
Okay, so what if you're willing to stay on fighting's first floor, but your wife is the one constantly hopping on the escalator? Don't tell her to calm down. That just makes you come off as patronizing, which fuels her anger. Instead, you make the effort to calm down. Keep your expression serious and say something like, "How about if I just listen to you for a few minutes, and you can tell me what you're thinking."
2. Be Her Mirror
Another sign that you're fighting ugly is invalidation. This occurs when you move beyond arguing about issues and start committing character assassination and name-calling. You know, the really fun stuff.
Lay off these tricks yourself. And if your wife slings one of those personal assaults your way, call her bluff. She's saying horrible things, but she doesn't really mean any of it. (If she did, she'd be gone by now.) Stanley suggests a very successful tactic that works in just about any contentious situation. "When someone's on the attack, paraphrase them. Gently reflect what she's saying so she can hear it." You could say, "Let me get this right. You think I've never really cared about you at all?"
Just be sure to sound sincere, not sarcastic. If you can do this, it's like holding up a mirror, which is gentler, and far more effective than saying, "Look in the mirror, bitch."
1. Stay Off the Escalator
The first sign of destructive fighting is what Markman and Stanley call escalation. The idea is simple: Even though you and your wife may start out arguing about something small, inevitably tempers flare, voices get louder, and that "little thing" disappears in an exchange of big threats.
To avoid such encounters, Markman and Stanley suggest a technique called "active listening," in which partners take turns talking and paraphrasing what the other is telling them ("What I hear you saying is . . ."). Yes, you'll feel dorky and self-conscious when you do this, but in a way that's the point. Active listening slows you down, makes you listen to what the other person is really saying, and stops you from blasting away with both barrels.
Okay, so what if you're willing to stay on fighting's first floor, but your wife is the one constantly hopping on the escalator? Don't tell her to calm down. That just makes you come off as patronizing, which fuels her anger. Instead, you make the effort to calm down. Keep your expression serious and say something like, "How about if I just listen to you for a few minutes, and you can tell me what you're thinking."
2. Be Her Mirror
Another sign that you're fighting ugly is invalidation. This occurs when you move beyond arguing about issues and start committing character assassination and name-calling. You know, the really fun stuff.
Lay off these tricks yourself. And if your wife slings one of those personal assaults your way, call her bluff. She's saying horrible things, but she doesn't really mean any of it. (If she did, she'd be gone by now.) Stanley suggests a very successful tactic that works in just about any contentious situation. "When someone's on the attack, paraphrase them. Gently reflect what she's saying so she can hear it." You could say, "Let me get this right. You think I've never really cared about you at all?"
Just be sure to sound sincere, not sarcastic. If you can do this, it's like holding up a mirror, which is gentler, and far more effective than saying, "Look in the mirror, bitch."
3. Don't Dis Her Memory
Often, in the heat of an argument, the first thing that each partner will try to invalidate is the other's memory. If it turns into a who-remembers-it-better shouting match and she says, "Oh, no, you said blah-blah," don't respond in kind. You'll only imply that her memory is more defective than yours (which it may be, but . . . ). Instead, say this: "I'm not sure what I said. What I meant was. . . ."
The point: It doesn't really matter who remembers it better. "Bring it into the present," says Markman. "And stop arguing about what was said or not said."
4. Don't Let Her Read Your Mind
If she claims you were secretly hoping her mother wouldn't stay all weekend, you could say, flat out, "Don't read my mind." But that's risky. "You're labeling her behavior, and that could be dynamite," says Stanley. Instead, try this: "That's not what I was thinking. Can I please just tell you what I was thinking?"
You? Thinking? The shock might be so great that your wife will drop her fighting gloves immediately.
5. Don't Put a Sock in It
Markman and Stanley's third fighting danger sign, withdrawal, involves a clear and documented difference between the genders. Women value any interaction in a relationship, even if it's negative. Men tend to value instrumental, problem-solving interactions, and we shut down when the volume goes up. Our physical response to the stress of yet another argument is the classic fight-or-flight reaction, and most men take flight. Especially if she's the verbally skilled one in the marriage?and most women have been a step ahead of us verbally since preschool.
All this leads to a lethal dynamic: She brings up a problem; you don't want to talk about it. She gets angry; you fear more conflict and close up tighter. She interprets that to mean you're detaching from the marriage. For the past 25 years, this scenario has been noted by marriage experts for its reliability in predicting marital instability and divorce.
Often, in the heat of an argument, the first thing that each partner will try to invalidate is the other's memory. If it turns into a who-remembers-it-better shouting match and she says, "Oh, no, you said blah-blah," don't respond in kind. You'll only imply that her memory is more defective than yours (which it may be, but . . . ). Instead, say this: "I'm not sure what I said. What I meant was. . . ."
The point: It doesn't really matter who remembers it better. "Bring it into the present," says Markman. "And stop arguing about what was said or not said."
4. Don't Let Her Read Your Mind
If she claims you were secretly hoping her mother wouldn't stay all weekend, you could say, flat out, "Don't read my mind." But that's risky. "You're labeling her behavior, and that could be dynamite," says Stanley. Instead, try this: "That's not what I was thinking. Can I please just tell you what I was thinking?"
You? Thinking? The shock might be so great that your wife will drop her fighting gloves immediately.
5. Don't Put a Sock in It
Markman and Stanley's third fighting danger sign, withdrawal, involves a clear and documented difference between the genders. Women value any interaction in a relationship, even if it's negative. Men tend to value instrumental, problem-solving interactions, and we shut down when the volume goes up. Our physical response to the stress of yet another argument is the classic fight-or-flight reaction, and most men take flight. Especially if she's the verbally skilled one in the marriage?and most women have been a step ahead of us verbally since preschool.
All this leads to a lethal dynamic: She brings up a problem; you don't want to talk about it. She gets angry; you fear more conflict and close up tighter. She interprets that to mean you're detaching from the marriage. For the past 25 years, this scenario has been noted by marriage experts for its reliability in predicting marital instability and divorce.
"The biggest mistake women make is getting angry at us," says Markman. It fails to solve the conflict and succeeds only in eroding the entire marriage. Here's what you can do about it. The next time you withdraw and she starts yelling about your pushing her away, say something like, "I don't want to shut you out. But I hate to fight with you." The exact words are unimportant. Just make her realize that you're not pulling away from her (the standard rap on men). You're just avoiding conflict. The first time you say this will be such a paradigm shift in your marriage, she'll be more affected by your change than the wording of it. In fact, your wife may be so stunned that the fight will stop right there. Make-up sex, anyone?
Forget about those nutcases. The best make up method is sex.
haffoo: the article is not focusing on the best make-up methods but rather at how to avoid having bad rows in the first place.
I think it's interesting the difference between how men and woman instinctively approach and react to rows. I think also that this applies to other aspects of male-female relationships.
For example there are loads of posts from women users who seek advice and enlightenment as to why their men are not calling back or seem distant or non communicative. I too am prone to this insecurity and I'm wondering is this partly to do with being a female and as such am pre-programmed to want nest with a man as soon as I have decided that he fits all my criteria of what I want in a man. So that when they are not returning my call as much as I think they should, it sparks all these doubts and insecurities which ironically do more to disrupt the relationship than the fact that the guy wasn't attaining his quota of phonecalls for the day, totally unaware that he was doign anything wrong.
For example there are loads of posts from women users who seek advice and enlightenment as to why their men are not calling back or seem distant or non communicative. I too am prone to this insecurity and I'm wondering is this partly to do with being a female and as such am pre-programmed to want nest with a man as soon as I have decided that he fits all my criteria of what I want in a man. So that when they are not returning my call as much as I think they should, it sparks all these doubts and insecurities which ironically do more to disrupt the relationship than the fact that the guy wasn't attaining his quota of phonecalls for the day, totally unaware that he was doign anything wrong.
I don't think you can avoid such things. After all we have to "discharge" from time to time, which is required for good mental health.
And fights are required to make sure problems are heard.
Well communicating your difference in opinion and your feelings is very different to shouting them in a hostile manner. The main difference being that the first is effective and progressive and the latter causes more ill feelings widens the rift of misunderstanding.
Here's another good dating article I came across from the same site:
At 27, I found myself standing on a Manhattan sidewalk, staring into the scruffy face of yet another huge dating disaster. Lied to, mistreated and cheated on, I'd been publicly humiliated. My ego was crushed. Having loved and lost and lost again, I felt frustrated, beaten down and so very tired of this thing called love. And I was full of the why-me's.
More from iVillage
Should You Break Up with Your Friend?
Exes: Keep in Touch or Cut Ties?
Common New Relationship Mistakes
Why didn't he love me? Why did this happen to me? Why does this always happen to me?
Several weeks after my breakup, the pity party was still in full swing. Lying on my living room sofa, in a mess of soggy tissues and gooey Fudgsicle sticks, I was spending the umpteenth consecutive night communing with Netflix and my misery. It was ugly. But then, right in the middle of all that feeling sorry for myself, something pretty amazing happened: I heard a song. Actually, it was just one line from a song:
"It's not going to stop 'til you wise up."
It was a line from Aimee Mann's "Wise Up," and after hearing the song just once, I made it my anthem. I downloaded it to my iPod, hit repeat and then commuted to it, cried to it, showered to it... until the day I was ready to do some actual wising up. I had learned from my experience, but it took my listening to those lyrics, articulated in just the right way, before I understood it.
Bad relationships didn't just happen to me. I allowed them to happen.
And it was time to put a stop to it. I would set boundaries - a set of relationship resolutions - for myself and for those I spent time with, and I would stick to them.
At 27, I found myself standing on a Manhattan sidewalk, staring into the scruffy face of yet another huge dating disaster. Lied to, mistreated and cheated on, I'd been publicly humiliated. My ego was crushed. Having loved and lost and lost again, I felt frustrated, beaten down and so very tired of this thing called love. And I was full of the why-me's.
More from iVillage
Should You Break Up with Your Friend?
Exes: Keep in Touch or Cut Ties?
Common New Relationship Mistakes
Why didn't he love me? Why did this happen to me? Why does this always happen to me?
Several weeks after my breakup, the pity party was still in full swing. Lying on my living room sofa, in a mess of soggy tissues and gooey Fudgsicle sticks, I was spending the umpteenth consecutive night communing with Netflix and my misery. It was ugly. But then, right in the middle of all that feeling sorry for myself, something pretty amazing happened: I heard a song. Actually, it was just one line from a song:
"It's not going to stop 'til you wise up."
It was a line from Aimee Mann's "Wise Up," and after hearing the song just once, I made it my anthem. I downloaded it to my iPod, hit repeat and then commuted to it, cried to it, showered to it... until the day I was ready to do some actual wising up. I had learned from my experience, but it took my listening to those lyrics, articulated in just the right way, before I understood it.
Bad relationships didn't just happen to me. I allowed them to happen.
And it was time to put a stop to it. I would set boundaries - a set of relationship resolutions - for myself and for those I spent time with, and I would stick to them.
I will learn to say "next!"
Plain and simple, the world is full of men. Everywhere you turn, there's a man. Look - there goes one now! A wise woman once told me that men are like city buses: If you miss one, there will always be another. I decided that, from now on, I would not assign any man too much meaning too early on. I am not going to worry that I won't find "it" again. I will not worry that I'll end up in a rocking chair surrounded by cats and empty wine bottles. I will remember that there will always be another.
I will expect more and tolerate less
Not all men are self-loathing, egocentric, cheating bastards. In fact, most people have a lot more good to them than bad, and by and large, will live up to the expectations you set for them. Not since junior high have I worried that a friend would hurt or disappoint me. But with men, it's been a constant fear. I realized that this was all because of expectations. If I did not expect - or even demand - that a man treat me right, he probably wasn't going to. I'm not talking about princessy stuff here, like buying me dinner or calling by Tuesday if he wants to see me on Saturday. I'm talking about basic good treatment. Like following through with plans. Or being aware of my feelings. Or not leaving his cell phone on another girl's nightstand and telling me he'd lost it. You know, common consideration. And when common consideration is breached? Next!
I will get busy
Because men are wired differently and may as well live in a different time zone, playing the "why hasn't he called?" game is a guaranteed express trip to Crazytown. Why hasn't he called? Who knows? But I do know that I should be too busy to worry about it. Untapped potential was like my emotional saddlebags - unattractive even if no one noticed it but me. I resolved to make plans, resurrect my hobbies and spend my time doing and thinking and being. If he calls, great! If not, I will be way too occupied with all my fabulous self-fulfillment to notice.
Plain and simple, the world is full of men. Everywhere you turn, there's a man. Look - there goes one now! A wise woman once told me that men are like city buses: If you miss one, there will always be another. I decided that, from now on, I would not assign any man too much meaning too early on. I am not going to worry that I won't find "it" again. I will not worry that I'll end up in a rocking chair surrounded by cats and empty wine bottles. I will remember that there will always be another.
I will expect more and tolerate less
Not all men are self-loathing, egocentric, cheating bastards. In fact, most people have a lot more good to them than bad, and by and large, will live up to the expectations you set for them. Not since junior high have I worried that a friend would hurt or disappoint me. But with men, it's been a constant fear. I realized that this was all because of expectations. If I did not expect - or even demand - that a man treat me right, he probably wasn't going to. I'm not talking about princessy stuff here, like buying me dinner or calling by Tuesday if he wants to see me on Saturday. I'm talking about basic good treatment. Like following through with plans. Or being aware of my feelings. Or not leaving his cell phone on another girl's nightstand and telling me he'd lost it. You know, common consideration. And when common consideration is breached? Next!
I will get busy
Because men are wired differently and may as well live in a different time zone, playing the "why hasn't he called?" game is a guaranteed express trip to Crazytown. Why hasn't he called? Who knows? But I do know that I should be too busy to worry about it. Untapped potential was like my emotional saddlebags - unattractive even if no one noticed it but me. I resolved to make plans, resurrect my hobbies and spend my time doing and thinking and being. If he calls, great! If not, I will be way too occupied with all my fabulous self-fulfillment to notice.
I will not play it cool
To keep myself from feeling exposed and vulnerable, I'd gotten very good at using the phrase "that's okay" when it was really, really not okay. There were so many times I didn't get angry when I should have, for fear of coming off as too emotional or unhinged. Well, you know what? Unhinge this! If the situation calls for it, and the difference between sucking it up and having a bit of a blowup could be months of festering in a foul mood, I'm going to let him have it. The same goes for positive emotions. If a man does something to delight me, I'm going to act delighted. Forget cool sophistication! And if he gets weirded out by all of my emoting? You guessed it: Next!
I will lighten up
The pursuit and maintenance of coupling may have made me do surprising things, but even more astounding was what it made me forget. I am pretty damn awesome. I am funny and talented, and I look pretty smokin' in jeans and stilettos. Getting caught up in the worry of trying to please a man, and working overtime to postpone an inevitable breakup is a huge time-waster. And a killjoy. A man's opinion of me is not more important that my own opinion of myself, so I shouldn't take it so seriously. I will remember to laugh more, worry less and like who I am - man or no man - and to redirect some of that energy into pleasing myself.
Unlike New Year's resolutions, which last only as long as my dieting attention span (six weeks max), my Relationship Resolutions have become ironclad. They've become a safety net and are a constant reminder that I don't need to second-guess myself or feel insecure. By wising up and following my resolutions, I might spend more time by myself than I did in the past. But on the upside, I've discovered that I like the company a whole lot more.
To keep myself from feeling exposed and vulnerable, I'd gotten very good at using the phrase "that's okay" when it was really, really not okay. There were so many times I didn't get angry when I should have, for fear of coming off as too emotional or unhinged. Well, you know what? Unhinge this! If the situation calls for it, and the difference between sucking it up and having a bit of a blowup could be months of festering in a foul mood, I'm going to let him have it. The same goes for positive emotions. If a man does something to delight me, I'm going to act delighted. Forget cool sophistication! And if he gets weirded out by all of my emoting? You guessed it: Next!
I will lighten up
The pursuit and maintenance of coupling may have made me do surprising things, but even more astounding was what it made me forget. I am pretty damn awesome. I am funny and talented, and I look pretty smokin' in jeans and stilettos. Getting caught up in the worry of trying to please a man, and working overtime to postpone an inevitable breakup is a huge time-waster. And a killjoy. A man's opinion of me is not more important that my own opinion of myself, so I shouldn't take it so seriously. I will remember to laugh more, worry less and like who I am - man or no man - and to redirect some of that energy into pleasing myself.
Unlike New Year's resolutions, which last only as long as my dieting attention span (six weeks max), my Relationship Resolutions have become ironclad. They've become a safety net and are a constant reminder that I don't need to second-guess myself or feel insecure. By wising up and following my resolutions, I might spend more time by myself than I did in the past. But on the upside, I've discovered that I like the company a whole lot more.
Well, think whatever you want, wether it real fight or just a heated discussion, sex is still the best make up method.
It all comes to the method you use to deal with your partner. If you always cold and talk shit, your words might be taken as real threats, not just complains. If you are the opposite of that, this method works the best.
It all comes to the method you use to deal with your partner. If you always cold and talk shit, your words might be taken as real threats, not just complains. If you are the opposite of that, this method works the best.
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