In the shell or moving on??? How can you tell?

This topic was created in the Cancer forum by Rosepetals on Thursday, August 4, 2011 and has 112 replies.
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I'm heart broken and am trying to sort out my emotions and even more confusion that was added to the whole picture within the past few weeks.
My Crab ex and I started communicating again going on 7 months ago. There was lack of trust between us (nothing cheating related) and so a slow yet consistent progression of him coming closer and opening up took place. We got to the point of totally acting like we're in a relationship, nothing sexual though.
We would talk for 4-5 hours almost every night, sharing our goals, passions, fears, pasts, hurts etc with one another. He was making tons of effort and consistency with us and trying to make it a point to show an improved him... Improvements on things that had partially caused the failed relationship in the past. He would constantly telling me I have his heart while being a little emotional. I sent him a care package at one point of his favorite candy (can't find it in many places), my favorite movie, and a book that would help him. Well my hair got into the package as well. He was SO grateful in receiving this little package where he said he was kissing my handwriting, and everything else as well as saving the piece of my hair he found lol.
We still deeply loved one another yet friendship was insisted from his end even though he would continue to act like we're together. This offer was made twice and the second time around, I decided to end communication telling him friendship was too risky for me. He broke down in tears saying his heart is breaking remembered us and had hope (two weeks ago), yet is the one who kept suggesting friendship. His actions and words totally going against each other......
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We still remained on each others' FB. He uploaded heartbreak songs, adding jealousy posts - male friend of mine is interested in me, makes it obvious. I've made it clear to Mr. Crab I only want him. A few days ago he lashes out and deletes every sentimental thing he had shared on my profile. I felt rejected, sent him a message of disappointment, & let him know he was acting like I had broken up w/ him when I was the one wanting a relationship w/ him. Emotions and hormones got the best of me and I allowed myself to get sucked into the childish action/reaction, and deleted every loving post I had posted on his profile (I know totally immature). He then deletes every single thing on HIS profile, including all his friends except for 5 (me one of the five) so now there's just a blank page and he later posted a post saying it's nothing personal - he's just simplifiing and his friends could continue to leave comments share links etc (I'm the only one out of the five left who would post anything). I called him and left a message suggesting we handle this maturely since clearly there are unresolved issues - this was on Sunday. He didn't call me back. I called him last night and still no response. Not even a I'm moving on, leave me alone, etc.

He's acting like I've broken up with him, when I wanted to be with him. Really bazaar. What gives?
How can you tell if a Crab is in their shell (hurt, angry etc) or moving on?

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http://www.dxpnet.com/opinion/relationships/Hearing-the-Just-want-to-be-friends-response-2615089.asp
Here's the link to the full story of why he says he wanted to be friends.
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I agree Cesar. I also think the best way to combat going through the same cycle with an ex is to openly express the issues you had the first time around. And yes, I'm totally against putting labels on a union unless we vow to be husband and wife. I'm not 12, you dont have to be my "boyfriend". The only thing I need to have for certain is monogamy if and when it gets to that level. Otherwise, my actions and his actions are all the reasurrance I need to know if things will progress.
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Posted by PiscesFebFish
I agree Cesar. I also think the best way to combat going through the same cycle with an ex is to openly express the issues you had the first time around. And yes, I'm totally against putting labels on a union unless we vow to be husband and wife. I'm not 12, you dont have to be my "boyfriend". The only thing I need to have for certain is monogamy if and when it gets to that level. Otherwise, my actions and his actions are all the reasurrance I need to know if things will progress.


me too. labels are restrictive, they weigh you down with expectations when i feel you should be enjoying the other person. the 'boyfriend' title? don't run before you can walk, i would say.
at least monogamy indicates a willingness to take each other seriously.
i don't know why i seem to be running up against guys who take this title business so seriously. and then get shocked when it falls apart because we both aren't in the same place.
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CK, I get these actions are coming from a hurt/angry place. But why so? Why the nonsense afterwards and why ignoring me?
While I hear what you are saying, I was the one who orginally asked him where our communication, 'building trust', and effort was going because I was getting mixed signals (months ago). I wanted to know if all of it was leading to a relationship eventually, otherwise the need of protecting myself emotionally had to take place. At the time, he said he liked things the way they had been and sounded threatened of losing me. His reason for remaining the way it was, was because he had tons of things going on emotonally, financially, and had healing to do so he doesn't hurt me or anyone he loves which was understandable... Unfortunately you never know if that is an excuse regardless.
So, that was the first time the friendship title was brought up. I went with the flow for the next two months. He progressively started coming even more closer, opening up even more, and acting way way more than just a friend. During the last week of speaking (two weeks ago, I brought it up again because of the confusion I was feeling - he said he didn't want to put any labels). I told him a label was necessary in order to add or take away certain boundaries. We decided to speak on another day about this subject and another issue regarding our past we were resolving. Last we spoke, most of our time was taken up with resolving the other issue. By the time we got to talking about our relationship situation, he had 30 mins left before he left for work. He's the type of person who would never cheat or leave me for another woman IF we were commited, but we don't have anything solid so he easily has the option to be with another woman if he wanted to. This was my concern and other then telling me he doesn't seem himself dating etc, nothing solid was offered again except for friendship again along with saying he could give me time to think about it. I didn't need anymore time and suggested we end our communication and not contact one another again as being just friends was too painful. He started crying (badly) and so it all began....
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maybe the only way to handle this is to step all the way back to gain some clarity?
it sounds so heavy and like you're both moving in spirals...you could probably use some fresh perspective with this matter...
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Posted by caesarkreshen


There a a million people in the world that someone can be just friends with, why did they choose you? I think it's a test. A qualifier. If you want it, do it... play the part. See what happens. It's painful but you know it's like a right of passage.
I bet you get another chance.
-CK


I've heard a few times on here that when a Cancer ex comes around and wants to be just friends, that they are just using you to lean on especially when they are going through a tough time. I've also heard they will do the friends thing because it's hard for them to fully let go and being friends gives them a chance to slowy and more easily move on from you. I'm not sure if this is true?
Also, he had said: How can you forget about someone you've loved so deeply and had such a intimate connection with? (something to that nature). Me: If the relationship is over then why hold on? (regarding having the all or nothingness). Again, he didn't give me reassurance.
Even if I wanted to test the waters with him, I don't have that oppertunity as he is ignoring the two calls and two FB messages I left trying to resolve what just happened. Not even giving a clear signal at what in the world he wants/if he's moving on etc... Nothing.
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oh, i get it now. you're revelling in the drama. have fun with that.
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Posted by PiscesFebFish
I agree Cesar. I also think the best way to combat going through the same cycle with an ex is to openly express the issues you had the first time around. And yes, I'm totally against putting labels on a union unless we vow to be husband and wife. I'm not 12, you dont have to be my "boyfriend". The only thing I need to have for certain is monogamy if and when it gets to that level. Otherwise, my actions and his actions are all the reasurrance I need to know if things will progress.


I see your point, but I also don't think having labels is childish at all. It adds or takes away boundaries knowing where you stand with another. Yet I always felt odd calling him my boyfriend, because he was so much more to me than that and he felt the same too... It was a title of monogamy though and either one of us crossing it, meant our relationship would be over. Now, he could do what ever he wants presently or eventually regardless of whether or not both of us not dating others right now.
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Honey, he can and will do whatever he wants regardless. Do you think that not being more than friends will gurantee you anything? Becuase it does not. Ask all the married men and women who have been cheated on. Ask all the ladies on here who had a definition of their relationship as being more than just friends and were still cheated on. With the exception of his immature actions on FB; the problem is you, not him. My good friend Mike has a line he says to females who are pushy and flip out when they want to hear magical words to put their relationship in a neat little box with a pretty ribbon- "chill the fuck out" Its not like you were sleeping with him, which would certainly constitute the monogamy talk. Then you said what you felt was more than being just a boyfriend. So why dont you find a word or term to clearly define what you think you two are, or should be and then say "Babe, I need to hear you say that we are _________" and all will be right with the world. Oy Vey!
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Posted by nimbue
oh, i get it now. you're revelling in the drama. have fun with that.


No, that's not what's going on. But you can think that if you would like.
It's way of a more complicated situation than the average Joe & Jane. I love him deeply, I know he loves me and I'm hurt, he's hurt and I'm trying to resolve this, but obviously can't with indirectness.
I want to be with him. He's offering friendship, yet was confusing me by completely being more than that. I end the friendship. He behaves as though I've broken up with him, crying, hurt and lashing out the past. Now ignoring me once I fed into his lashing out.
I would like to get a clearer understanding as none of this makes sense to me. It's weighing on my heart and is why I'm here.
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Posted by caesarkreshen
He mad... lol.
Look, I really don't believe there is such a thing as just friends. Looking back at this chic I knew who kept coming back as just friends (most of the time...) and then finally came back one last time (ostensibly.)
I now believe that if someone loved you and they don't have a boyfriend/girlfriend and they come back as "just friends" that they want a relationship but are scared to admit it and want to go through this weird ritual of testing it.
Things that can mess this up is labeling... because if you label something then it becomes more serious and requires the other person to think about it (even as just friends, could be seen as a rejection of the ultimate goal.) If you really want to deal with someone and you were "acting like you were together", you should have both just let it flow.
There a a million people in the world that someone can be just friends with, why did they choose you? I think it's a test. A qualifier. If you want it, do it... play the part. See what happens. It's painful but you know it's like a right of passage.
I bet you get another chance.
PS: There are those that say you should never fuck with an ex because it always turns into the same cycle of BS that it did before. And while I haven't proven this theory wrong, I still continue to try... because I believe it's wrong.
-CK


ck already said it all here. you're both water signs. why not go with the flow? actually, forget that. forget astrology. he's a man, you're a woman. he can't offer you a relationship right now. what's more important, the title or your connection?
you put so much weight onto what he's doing and not doing when you could be enjoying his presence in his life, in the capacity it is now. forget that you're 'acting' like a couple. you are a couple. a couple of people with loving felings towards each other.
and another thing. when you analyse, chew everything over and spit it back out does it make you feel better? i doubt it. if you really feel you can't be a friend to him when you want more, isn't that selfish? you should be questioning your own motives as much as his. sounds like he's laid all cards on the table. have you?
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Posted by PiscesFebFish
Honey, he can and will do whatever he wants regardless. Do you think that not being more than friends will gurantee you anything? Becuase it does not. Ask all the married men and women who have been cheated on. Ask all the ladies on here who had a definition of their relationship as being more than just friends and were still cheated on. With the exception of his immature actions on FB; the problem is you, not him. My good friend Mike has a line he says to females who are pushy and flip out when they want to hear magical words to put their relationship in a neat little box with a pretty ribbon- "chill the fuck out" Its not like you were sleeping with him, which would certainly constitute the monogamy talk. Then you said what you felt was more than being just a boyfriend. So why dont you find a word or term to clearly define what you think you two are, or should be and then say "Babe, I need to hear you say that we are _________" and all will be right with the world. Oy Vey!


+1
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Posted by PiscesFebFish
Honey, he can and will do whatever he wants regardless. Do you think that not being more than friends will gurantee you anything? Becuase it does not. Ask all the married men and women who have been cheated on. Ask all the ladies on here who had a definition of their relationship as being more than just friends and were still cheated on. With the exception of his immature actions on FB; the problem is you, not him. My good friend Mike has a line he says to females who are pushy and flip out when they want to hear magical words to put their relationship in a neat little box with a pretty ribbon- "chill the fuck out" Its not like you were sleeping with him, which would certainly constitute the monogamy talk. Then you said what you felt was more than being just a boyfriend. So why dont you find a word or term to clearly define what you think you two are, or should be and then say "Babe, I need to hear you say that we are _________" and all will be right with the world. Oy Vey!


Lol, I like the little box! smile You're are right in a lot of points. It does give me commitment however, and having his heart with me. It just all comes down to fear. Fear of progressing and getting attached again as we were but only to remain that way. I was cheated on for years by a man and didn't know, but can now smell it if a man were that way. Cancer guy isn't. At all, when giving his heart away. This was only when we were commited. When we had something solid.
I don't see how the problem was me. We could take all the time if he wants to. Slowly, if eventually that is where he sees himself with - with me, with us. I told him I didn't expect to jump into a relationship with a snap of a finger right now as I felt we both had other things to focus on, but would like for everything that was taking place between us to eventually lead to a relationship. I needed to hear this Is what He wanted as well. But he said he didn't know what the future held.
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Posted by caesarkreshen
I think I'm a pretty perceptive person, but I'm going to invoke the "I wasn't there" card. So I dunno. We only know your side of the story; the person who knows what is up and why it's happening, I believe, is YOU. So, do what you think is right.
I told you what I believe and I believe it's true.
One more nugget; I've known plenty of people in my life... been close to a lot. Coming back to someone when you need them is not a "cancer" trait; everyone does that. I used to take it pretty hard when I thought people "used" me, but being the last person on someone's list... the one someone knows will be there for them, is actually kind of a compliment. So, don't send someone away just because of that.
If you don't want to be used, then don't give them any more than they require, but as a friend, you should be there.
Lastly, I know the feeling of "how can you forget about someone you were so close to" and if you told him that you did forget about him in some way, you got a major negative point, I'm sure.
oh and I like nimbue so far.
-CK


CK, I'm just simply freakin' confused, am not able to see things clearly at the moment, and my inuition is asleep. I'm generally cautious of people and reading so much on this board has made me even more so. There was a balance with the give and take between us. I wasn't the only one being leaned on as he was there for me as well. But things I've read around the forums/relationship info - An ex/male will only use you to lean on until he finds someone new etc, creep up in my mind.

What I meant in the response to him was why be friends (hold on) as it's too painful if there is no chance of being romantically involved. Towards the end of the entire conversation, when he was crying, I tried calming him down and told him I would always love him, that he'd always have a little house inside my heart. He said the same, continued crying and said he understood it all.
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ck already said it all here. you're both water signs. why not go with the flow? actually, forget that. forget astrology. he's a man, you're a woman. he can't offer you a relationship right now. what's more important, the title or your connection?
you put so much weight onto what he's doing and not doing when you could be enjoying his presence in his life, in the capacity it is now. forget that you're 'acting' like a couple. you are a couple. a couple of people with loving felings towards each other.
and another thing. when you analyse, chew everything over and spit it back out does it make you feel better? i doubt it. if you really feel you can't be a friend to him when you want more, isn't that selfish? you should be questioning your own motives as much as his. sounds like he's laid all cards on the table. have you?


I wish I could give him unconditional love, by just being his friend even though I want all of him... And yes, maybe that is selfish, but who's going to protect my heart if I don't? I was really enjoying him in my life - the more attached I would become the more fear kicked in because we weren't commited. And the closer he would get to me without exclusivity, again the more fear I felt. So the topic was brought up... And I didn't push but let him know I eventually would like to head towards that direction. He still wouldn't give anything by telling me he sees himself with me in the future.
How has he laid all the cards on the table and I haven't? Just trying to get a clearer picture.
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By reading the comments here, it seems like you guys are saying I'm being pushy! Yes? If so, how do you establish what you want without being that way?
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Is it too late, as he's chosen not to communicate with me, and should I take this as he's moving on and do the same myself?
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it looks like your expectations are backing him into a corner. seems you both hold commitment to a high level of importance. your side- 'i can't deal with having some of you. i need it all.' his side- 'i can't fully commit to you now, if ever.' so...do you want to end the friendship? that would be within your rights, if you genuinely can't move forwards without the promise of a commitment. saying that, a commitment is a formality, i would say. i assume you'd both know if either wanted an outside romantic relationship and deal with that accordingly.
it also seems like there's a big dollop of co-dependency on both sides.you keep bringing up the fact 'he cried for ten mnutes'. does this make you feel reassured somehow? that you can emotionally move him, i.e hold some power in this covert battle of wills? if you're being honest about your own intentions, you know you can't be just a friend to him whilst he goes through his stuff. that doesn't make you a bitch. you can love him from a distance.
and more than anybody on this site, you know him. so you shold be able to know if he's being deceptive or untruthful. granted, maybe not based on facts. but based on gut instinct and common sense. cancer boy can't have his cake and eat it and i'm getting the selfish vibes on both parts.
so, again. you really have two options here. either continue as you are, being more relaxed/open about the situation. or move forwards, knowing he can't give you what you want. as for protecting your heart...how is that so? you've already emotionally invested, sounds like game, set match to me :/
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Basically he's sulking because he can't have it his way...He can't have her on his terms, he wants all the perks and benefits of having her as a friend but clearly those boundaries are crossed he's doing and saying boyfriend stuff which would confuse any woman.
I can understand her confusion, it's a hard transition when a person is reaping the benefits of a relationship, emotionally tying her up and at the same time wanting his freedom to pursue other women and focus on all his problems...It's selfish behavior but it's what he wants.
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I'm curious...Can you elaborate on "a little different situation...not with a cancer man..."
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i find it fascinating that the thoughts/comments from the air/fire signs are so different from the water signs. air/fire... very cut and dry. water... takes a deeper look at the dynamics between the two people.
very interesting
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Posted by Noosiekins
Posted by tiki33
I'm curious...Can you elaborate on "a little different situation...not with a cancer man..."



been seeing a leo... been 3.5 months...we have been intimate... i've asked him a month in exactly what he wants... said he came from a messed up relationship and doesn't want to jump into another...asked to keep things low key for a while...
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listen to what a man says. he told you straight up in the beginning... but you thought by sleeping with him it would turn into something more?
if you want sex... sleep with someone you're not emotionally invested in and don't plan on becoming so in the future.
if you want a relationship with a man... don't sleep with him until you are BOTH emotionally involved and you know his intentions
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Noosie...I'm curious....Why did you proceed to be intimate and turnaround 3.5 months to ask him what he wanted? I'm wondering why you didn't tackle these hard issues before being intimate with him?
Honestly if you go along with a man you've basically set the tone of how the relationship is going to be from that point on and thus when you turn around a few months later and have to question a man were it's going the NATURAL response you get will probably be same and replayed over and over in different ways with different excuses from different men until you understand it's not really the men that's the problem but your delivery and approach to intimacy and relationships that's not really effective, change that and the outcome and experience would be much more positive, you're going about it the hard way and taking the longest route.
Try a new approach, one thing you can try out is not being intimate until you actually are in a real exclusive relationship (if exclusivity is your purpose and desire) another approach is not bringing up the "were are we going talk" ever instead trying letting him do it first so until then you can assume if he's not bringing it up first that you are just sex buddies (FWB) and then give yourself permission to pursue other relationships outside of him. There are so many things that you can do to help you feel in control over your dating life, it's your life so make rules and boundaries that work for you and not against you. Right now it seems you have none and so men just come in and out of your life as they please.
Where I'm going with this is that you don't have to experience so much disappointment if you begin to assert your own rules and adjust them as you go along, right now what your doing isn't working so stop doing it.
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Good post moon but in his case his intentions are misleading and her reaction to that is confusion, hurt etc. It would be different if he communicated how much he wanted to be with her and all the effort is building up to that space were they both can be one again, so please be patient with me but to say I only want friendship and then proceed to treat her like a love interest, I dunno something doesn't sit right with that.
Maybe he's not being clear with his intentions but it sure seems he's pretty clear to me about what he wants and doesn't want and in this case he wants friendship with the benefits of real relationship stuff and that's a bit unfair because that puts her on hold and that in itself is a selfish approach....I guess it's more about what she wants, she'll have to define that for herself.
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I noticed you are a fire sign Noosie....You probably just go with it, some fire signs can be really impulsive in the beginning of romance, you'll have to tame that fire down so you can get a favorable outcome were you and the man of your desire is both winning.
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Posted by nimbue
it looks like your expectations are backing him into a corner. seems you both hold commitment to a high level of importance. your side- 'i can't deal with having some of you. i need it all.' his side- 'i can't fully commit to you now, if ever.' so...do you want to end the friendship? that would be within your rights, if you genuinely can't move forwards without the promise of a commitment. saying that, a commitment is a formality, i would say. i assume you'd both know if either wanted an outside romantic relationship and deal with that accordingly.
it also seems like there's a big dollop of co-dependency on both sides.you keep bringing up the fact 'he cried for ten mnutes'. does this make you feel reassured somehow? that you can emotionally move him, i.e hold some power in this covert battle of wills? if you're being honest about your own intentions, you know you can't be just a friend to him whilst he goes through his stuff. that doesn't make you a bitch. you can love him from a distance.


Yes, we both do hold commitment very high. I won't fully give myself to a man; mind/body/spirit unless I first know he fully wants me and wants to make it solid. He doesn't sleep with a woman unless he fully trusts/feels safe/and is commited. We're old school in certain ways. We both haven't been involved with anyone else and our focus was on one another as far as his actions were shown.
Him crying isn't anything knew. He only shows that side to his mother, and I. What throws me off gaurd is WHY would a man be so devestated If all he says he wants is friendship? It's like the proper emotions have switched where I should be the one in tears in my love only wanting that when we love one another on a deeper level.
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Posted by tiki33
Basically he's sulking because he can't have it his way...He can't have her on his terms, he wants all the perks and benefits of having her as a friend but clearly those boundaries are crossed he's doing and saying boyfriend stuff which would confuse any woman.
I can understand her confusion, it's a hard transition when a person is reaping the benefits of a relationship, emotionally tying her up and at the same time wanting his freedom to pursue other women and focus on all his problems...It's selfish behavior but it's what he wants.


Why is he acting like a boyfriend when he says he wants friendship? I currently do not think he's looking for other women, but my fear in staying friends is that he has the option eventually to do that if he pleased (generally speaking on a male/female dynamic such as this).
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Posted by wineaux
Posted by tiki33
Basically he's sulking because he can't have it his way...He can't have her on his terms, he wants all the perks and benefits of having her as a friend but clearly those boundaries are crossed he's doing and saying boyfriend stuff which would confuse any woman.
I can understand her confusion, it's a hard transition when a person is reaping the benefits of a relationship, emotionally tying her up and at the same time wanting his freedom to pursue other women and focus on all his problems...It's selfish behavior but it's what he wants.


+1. times infinity. he's emotionally unavailable, but still wants to have what he's not capable of. it's a terrible situation for both of them because they're hurting, just in different ways. something has deeply affected his life that he's trying to face and then not face and then just lose it. heart wrenching.
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wineaux, thank you. Is you response based on his background I had shared with you?
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"Why is he acting like a boyfriend when he says he wants friendship?"
I'm going to reverse the question and say why not?
"I currently do not think he's looking for other women, but my fear in staying friends is that he has the option eventually to do that if he pleased (generally speaking on a male/female dynamic such as this). "
Very perceptive and you're right.
"Yes, we both do hold commitment very high."
No offense to him or to you but it seems the only person holding commitment very high is you, he seems perfectly content being your friend and getting the benefits of a noncommittal romantic relationship.
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Posted by moongirljj
Here is the exact quote, it was written by a member of tarot.com is name is Lawdawg...
"I am a Cancer male and have dated Libra women and know of many. The basic thing to remember and this is only from an astrological prospective, libra is an air sign and their interaction with love is ruled by the head. Cancer is a water sign and their interaction with love is ruled by the heart. That's not to say that libra does not have feelings and her love is not heartfelt. What it means is that libra tends to map out the course of her relationship as it fits into the pattern or definition of what a relationship should look like. Cancer, however, is waiting for the feelings and emotions of love to swell up in him until it bursts thrusting him forward to serious committment.
Therefore, telling him that you needed more quality time bursted whatever bubble of loving emotion he thought you two shared. It made him believe that this love was not unfolding with an escalating buildup of feelings or emotions; but that he was somehow inadequate in his role. You had a duty for him (i.e. spent more quality time with me). So by the conversation, something was missing in the relationship and he was the one gulity of withholding it. Now, instead of building upon a strong sexual attraction, he is in the relationship repair mode that probably felt too familar after his relationship failures in the past. The better way to handle these types of requests is to pose them to him in a way that suggest you want more loving time with him. "I've like to see you this evening, I miss you lips". You know, something that gets him over to your house, but doesn't make it a chore.
It's natural for the Cancer to reaccess whether he is ready to be in a particular relations. Not because you requested more quality time, but he fears getting deeper into a relationship where it needs to develop based upon some preconceived relationship paradigm instead of allowing you two to be sweeped away by the loving, heated emotions of the heart. Two many time outsiders think Cancers only retreat to prevent themselves from being hurt. Sometimes it's because they don't feel like they are get the emotional intimacy they want and need. Sometimes, it because they don't want to hurt others. Not saying this behavior is ideal; however, it far more sophisticated that "teenage behavior"


Although we already are de
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Moon, (continuing)... Thank you for sharing the article! smile Although we already are deeply emotionally connected, I could see what he means in the article in the progression Mr. Cancer was making. I wonder if staying 'friends' would have led it into us as a couple after a level of trust/safety/and steadyness took place? Fear kicked in of course in what if not.
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tiki & wineaux called it. you know why he cried, he's playing you and himself in the process. as in, denying himself something in verbal terms which he has with you anyway. obviously what you have between you isn't a friendship in the traditional sense. it's a relationship without the title. thus, both of you are emotionally invested.
what are you anyway, his comfort blanket? i'm starting to think now, he knows how you feel about committing. so he's holding back either out of genuine fear or some mad, manipulative power trip. think about it. he's having his cake and eating it, (everything's on his terms) where does that leave you? of course you're confused.
i guess if you love him he needs to be friend zoned. like, properly. not this half in, half out bs. i don't think it's fair to either of you.
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Posted by tiki33
Good post moon but in his case his intentions are misleading and her reaction to that is confusion, hurt etc. It would be different if he communicated how much he wanted to be with her and all the effort is building up to that space were they both can be one again, so please be patient with me but to say I only want friendship and then proceed to treat her like a love interest, I dunno something doesn't sit right with that.
Maybe he's not being clear with his intentions but it sure seems he's pretty clear to me about what he wants and doesn't want and in this case he wants friendship with the benefits of real relationship stuff and that's a bit unfair because that puts her on hold and that in itself is a selfish approach....I guess it's more about what she wants, she'll have to define that for herself.


What I want, to me, is pretty simple. I do not want to have the title of a friend or simply only be that. Nor was I asking him to jump into a relationship with a snap of a finger as I feel we had rebuilding to do. I wanted everything that was taking place to slowly lead to a relationship eventually and to know that was where HIS desire was.
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Posted by caesarkreshen
No offense to him or to you but it seems the only person holding commitment very high is you, he seems perfectly content being your friend and getting the benefits of a noncommittal romantic relationship.
^ Disagree with that.. haha.
I think they both want the same thing. People will forever waste time by playing stupid games.



I don't see them wanting the same thing, I see they are both demonstrating romantic relationship feelings with one another yet he's defining it differently for himself, it's clear they are doing the same relationship stuff but he's calling it friendship....Or maybe he's wanting the same thing without the label and thus this creates confusion which it should, he sure can throw that friendship title around but doesn't appear open to any other title other than that lol
Either way it sucks...I feel for her
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Posted by Rosepetals
Posted by tiki33
Good post moon but in his case his intentions are misleading and her reaction to that is confusion, hurt etc. It would be different if he communicated how much he wanted to be with her and all the effort is building up to that space were they both can be one again, so please be patient with me but to say I only want friendship and then proceed to treat her like a love interest, I dunno something doesn't sit right with that.
Maybe he's not being clear with his intentions but it sure seems he's pretty clear to me about what he wants and doesn't want and in this case he wants friendship with the benefits of real relationship stuff and that's a bit unfair because that puts her on hold and that in itself is a selfish approach....I guess it's more about what she wants, she'll have to define that for herself.


What I want, to me, is pretty simple. I do not want to have the title of a friend or simply only be that. Nor was I asking him to jump into a relationship with a snap of a finger as I feel we had rebuilding to do. I wanted everything that was taking place to slowly lead to a relationship eventually and to know that was where HIS desire was.
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Does he desire it rosepetals? What I mean is you say you desire a certain outcome and did he agree that he too wanted the same outcome?
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Posted by nimbue
tiki & wineaux called it. you know why he cried, he's playing you and himself in the process. as in, denying himself something in verbal terms which he has with you anyway. obviously what you have between you isn't a friendship in the traditional sense. it's a relationship without the title. thus, both of you are emotionally invested.
what are you anyway, his comfort blanket? i'm starting to think now, he knows how you feel about committing. so he's holding back either out of genuine fear or some mad, manipulative power trip. think about it. he's having his cake and eating it, (everything's on his terms) where does that leave you? of course you're confused.
i guess if you love him he needs to be friend zoned. like, properly. not this half in, half out bs. i don't think it's fair to either of you.



Based on his personal past and us breaking each others heart in the past, he has said many times he's afraid and that he is also afraid of letting me down as he hasn't fully healed. When he speaks, he is very vulnerable and emotional at times, like it's coming from a deeper level; his heart.
Thank you for your comments, I'll be reading everyones again the next few days to get a clearer understanding.
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Posted by tiki33
Posted by Rosepetals
Posted by tiki33
Good post moon but in his case his intentions are misleading and her reaction to that is confusion, hurt etc. It would be different if he communicated how much he wanted to be with her and all the effort is building up to that space were they both can be one again, so please be patient with me but to say I only want friendship and then proceed to treat her like a love interest, I dunno something doesn't sit right with that.
Maybe he's not being clear with his intentions but it sure seems he's pretty clear to me about what he wants and doesn't want and in this case he wants friendship with the benefits of real relationship stuff and that's a bit unfair because that puts her on hold and that in itself is a selfish approach....I guess it's more about what she wants, she'll have to define that for herself.


What I want, to me, is pretty simple. I do not want to have the title of a friend or simply only be that. Nor was I asking him to jump into a relationship with a snap of a finger as I feel we had rebuilding to do. I wanted everything that was taking place to slowly lead to a relationship eventually and to know that was where HIS desire was.


Does he desire it rosepetals? What I mean is you say you desire a certain outcome and did he agree that he too wanted the same outcome?
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He said he didn't know what the future held. Confusing again.
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"i guess if you love him he needs to be friend zoned. like, properly. not this half in, half out bs. i don't think it's fair to either of you."
Totally agree with this statement, he can't do what you don't allow, if you allow yourself to play out these romantic feelings and talks and then proceed to still struggle with the idea that he only wants friendship until he's comfortable with the idea that you are totally invested then the only person that'll end up deeply hurt and disappointed is you...
You have to decide if he's worth the risk, take a chance or bail before you get too invested to let go no matter what he's doing and saying and thus you'll find yourself stuck on a phobic man that won't budge out of the friend zone.
Honestly men who are ready just don't behave this way.
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Posted by Rosepetals
Posted by tiki33
Posted by Rosepetals
Posted by tiki33
Good post moon but in his case his intentions are misleading and her reaction to that is confusion, hurt etc. It would be different if he communicated how much he wanted to be with her and all the effort is building up to that space were they both can be one again, so please be patient with me but to say I only want friendship and then proceed to treat her like a love interest, I dunno something doesn't sit right with that.
Maybe he's not being clear with his intentions but it sure seems he's pretty clear to me about what he wants and doesn't want and in this case he wants friendship with the benefits of real relationship stuff and that's a bit unfair because that puts her on hold and that in itself is a selfish approach....I guess it's more about what she wants, she'll have to define that for herself.


What I want, to me, is pretty simple. I do not want to have the title of a friend or simply only be that. Nor was I asking him to jump into a relationship with a snap of a finger as I feel we had rebuilding to do. I wanted everything that was taking place to slowly lead to a relationship eventually and to know that was where HIS desire was.


Does he desire it rosepetals? What I mean is you say you desire a certain outcome and did he agree that he too wanted the same outcome?


He said he didn't know what the future held. Confusing again.
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Then you have to decide if that's good enough...Can you live with that answer rosepetals?
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Posted by moongirljj
Posted by caesarkreshen
No offense to him or to you but it seems the only person holding commitment very high is you, he seems perfectly content being your friend and getting the benefits of a noncommittal romantic relationship.
^ Disagree with that.. haha.
I think they both want the same thing. People will forever waste time by playing stupid games.



Yeah it's not typical for a Cancer to invest so much time and energy if there aren't real feelings there. Plus his reaction to it ending was very emotional indeed. I think he's playing the abandoned victim right now, but he needs to snap out of that. Maybe he is just afraid of the vulnerability it would involve to fight for you. I have let people walk away from me out of fear, but I usually came to my senses eventually, or they came back.
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I'm going to go away for a mini vacation 2 hours north of him in a few weeks. He had said he wanted to drive up and see me, expressed he was excited yet afraid. I asked him why he was afraid, he said because seeing me face to face is so vulnerable for him... That he wears his heart on his sleeve for me. I said, "what's wrong with being vulnerable?" Him, "Nothing I guess" - of course holding back expressing fears of getting hurt.
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Posted by wineaux
@rosepetals - absolutely dear. it's like everytime he tries to breathe he can't get enough air. I don't think he knows how to love or accept love. he's got so much to sort out and doesn't know where to start. what's first? who's first? he can't prioritize because he can't see straight. it's almost like he needs a life coach or mentor to tell him what to do. he's in so much pain...which is why he continues to push/pull. if he even tried to give you more, he knows he'd fail because he can't give you what you need. he can't even give it to himself. breaks my heart.



I'm in tears right now. Everything here, is pretty much word by word identical to what he's expressed. I'm skeptical to begin with and have my own trust issues when it comes to men so I wasn't sure if he was being truthful or 'having his cake and eating it too'
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Tiki, I am not sure. The reason I would even consider it is because we both had a mutual part in our past failed relationship. A lot of trust was broken mutually. For my part, I had absolutely no knowledge how to be in a relationship or anything about men really. It was the wrong timing as we both thought, and we always felt we would come back together eventually as we both had tons of healing to do.
He would come into my life and then leave again after our split. And I'm not excusing his behavior because almost all men would have left considering the demanding, needy, pressure filled, agressive, lack of understanding how to be with men energy that I had most of the time.
I left Us alone and changed me. Became calmer, more at peace, learning so much about men/relationships etc (still have a lot to learn...), having my own life etc. Well the more he noticed my change, the softness and stability, he has since come around consistently for awhile now.
I had wondered if it would progress as it had been towards a relationship if enough time had passed where the trust/stability had been built. But again as I had mentioned, fear kicked in.
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Moon,
His birth chart:
Sun Cancer
Moon Capricorn
Mercury Cancer
Venus Gemini
Mars Cancer
Jupitar Capricorn
Saturn Gemini
Uranus Libra
Neptune Sagittarius
Pluto Virgo
Lilith Scorpio
Asc node Capricorn
Mine:
Sun Pisces
Moon Leo
Mercury Pisces
Venus Aries
Mars Aries
Jupitar Aquarius
Saturn Scorpio
Uranus Sagittarius
Neptune Capricorn
Pluto Scorpio
Lilth Aries
Acs node Taurus

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How long did it take for you to come to your senses? Days, weeks, months?
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All I know is this in and out "fear" thing can go on forever and if you're with an unavailable man that renders you unavailable too, so unavailable that you're so tied up over this one man that you're not available to pursue a relationship with someone who isn't scared and in fear to get close to you and commit themselves to you.
In situations like this it's best to put yourself first and wish the person in confusion love and blessings on his journey so you can be available and not tied down and trapped by the possibility and illusion of having a real relationship some day.
Whatever you choose, I wish you the best...
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Posted by moongirljj
Posted by Rosepetals
How long did it take for you to come to your senses? Days, weeks, months?



Usually hours to days, depending on how bad things had got or how much I had convinced myself I was no good for the person. I don't do it anymore, but I did when I was younger and had family issues.
I think if he contacts you you should try and have a heart to heart with him. One thing about Cancers...and I hate to admit this, but we often don't see the pain we are causing to others until our own is acknowledged. One thing I have learnt with my Cancer man is if I flip my attitude from angry or trying to be heard to just unselfishly understanding and come at it 100% from his point of view, he will stop fighting me and do the same back, we end up "arguing" for each others feelings and then we get to this really loving place and we are happy for ages after that. Also being emotional in a tense situation isn't bad. No matter how angry we may be, if one of us cries the other immediately softens and offers comfort.
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Similar interaction with my Crab and I. The only problem is, I have no idea what I did wrong?
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Moon, after reading the post from wineaux, I was flooded with sadness and understanding. I called him again and left a calm message expressing I would like to speak to him (have a heart to heart) and if he wasn't ready or in the right mood, I would appreciate hearing that via email as I would feel a sense of peace from it. This was a few hours ago, I haven't heard from him.
Such bazarr and unnecessary behavior and dissappointment as he was so wonderful with his communication the past going on 7 months - no matter what mood he was in or what he was going through, he would avoid everyone but always at least call or email me to express he would call me another time if he was moody.
Three strikes of phones calls made since Sunday. I'm stepping away now. The least he could do is communicate he's moving on.
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Posted by moongirljj
I don't think you did anything wrong Rosepetals, at the absolute most you possibly made his affections be perceived as inadequate by pushing for more, but surely anyone would understand your frustration. I can't be happy with no label either. I crave security and the feeling of belonging to someone. I believe this whole inadequecy issue is mostly a male one.
Sometimes I believe we have to walk away in order to know if theres anything worth staying for. You have spent months allowing him to depend on you emotionally, if he can get by without that now, is the true test of his feelings.


I understand, it is just so unnecessary. I like to express/deal with, resolve, and move forward from it. Life is so short and either one of us could die in the midst of all this silence nonsense.
I think he may be able to get by, but will always know who he got the closest to, who understood him (overall) the most, who loved him the most, who would go to war for him and stand right by him, take his side and blieve in him.
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rosepetals,
you remind me of a pisces girl (who also had a venus in aries and leo moon) who broke up with a pisces guy and then went 10 years without dating anyone significant. she ended up marrying an idiot. move on quickly. good luck!

ps - i'll be private messaging you my number




pps - i'm kidding, but seriously, move on quickly.

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