Another Angry Dad Teaching a Lesson

This topic was created in the Miscellaneous forum by LetltB on Wednesday, April 2, 2014 and has 67 replies.
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Georgia Soldier Moves Daughter's Room into Driveway to Teach Her a Lesson

Frustrated by his daughter's messy living habits, a Georgia soldier decided to teach her a lesson by moving all her belongings into the driveway of their house in Mustang Lane, near Savannah, while she was at school.
When the teenager came back home on Monday, she found all her things outside the house, including her bed, table, bookshelf and computer. Next to her possessions, the angry father left a sign that read, ???Haley, room moved to driveway. Clean it next time.??
The Fort Stewart soldier, who didn't want to be identified, appealed to this extreme measure after repeatedly asking his daughter to clean up her bedroom. He told WSAW he had warned Haley that he would start treating her like a soldier, but the girl wouldn??t listen.
The man also explained that he didn't mean to humiliate her. His purpose was to surprise his daughter and make a point.
Haley, who was described by her father as an honor roll student, was initially upset with his ???extreme?? tactic, but the unusual ???punishment?? proved beneficial for both of them in the end.
The father has hired a painter to give Haley's bedroom a fresh coat of paint, hoping that she will keep it cleaner from now on.
PHOTO OF BEDROOM IN DRIVEWAY HERE
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Question...I keep reading about these Dads, where the hell are the mothers??
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Posted by DonAmanMarat
Mothers ARE the driving force behind these punishments: father gone to work, kid gone to school and guess who left to clean up behind em all?



I'm sure it's not always the case though. One thing about parenting, you can whine and nag all you want, but it's ACTION that gets noticed. I'll never forget the 180 degree turn around the first time I took a cell phone and a computer away for two weeks. Whew..talk about a wake up call! I also did something similar to this father. Gave my son 24 hours to pick up everything on the floor. He didn't. I picked it all up, put everything from the floor, draped over the dresser, and bed into 2 black garbage bags and took it out to the garage. Initially he came downstairs and said thanks Mom...sorry I didn't get it clean in time. THEN...when he was looking for something he was told to look in the garage. lol...it worked. It's now his Friday afternoon ritual to clean his room.
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Posted by Rabbit
Or the mother could be catfishing on DXP...



Or screwing someone elses husband...or...________________, or__________________......
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Posted by Rabbit
Garbage bags always work...



It sure did!
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Posted by LetltB
Frustrated by his daughter's messy living habits, a Georgia soldier decided to teach her a lesson by moving all her belongings into the driveway of their house in Mustang Lane, near Savannah, while she was at school.
When the teenager came back home on Monday, she found all her things outside the house, including her bed, table, bookshelf and computer. Next to her possessions, the angry father left a sign that read, ???Haley, room moved to driveway. Clean it next time.??


LMAO. My dad totally did this to me.
Told me that if I didn't clean my room, he would put everything that was on the floor (and not supposed to be) on the roof.
He then did exactly that.
Luckily, for me, my older sister got home from school before I did so she climbed out there and brought it all back in.
It definitely did teach me a lesson though. Sadly, it didn't stick; I live on my own now and my room is once again a mess.
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He's a good dad! I wish more parents were more proactive like this.
I do know one set of parents who took everything out of their kid's room and locked it in the storage building. They had to gradually earn everything back. Want your deodorant? Put your dishes in the dishwasher. Want some clean underwear? Take out the trash. Want your makeup? Vacuum the floor.
Of course, one Saturday of doing chores, they got all the necessities back. It took yard work and harder stuff to get back computers and luxury items.
Kid's room stayed clean after that.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
I don't agree with it. Humiliating a child isn't going to make them behave, and if it does it will simply be out of fear. She's been taught nothing.
My mother took the door off of the hinges to my bedroom once.....1) because my room was messy and 2) I was always in there (I loved my privacy and seclusion as a kid and also had a pesky little Taurus brother who always got in my stuff). My room was off the kitchen so with the door off, every body could see in. I was mortified. Not because it was messy....but because it was my personal space and it was now violated.
That just taught me to hide things better from my mother and everyone else.
When that didn't work, she would send me to their room for punishment (by myself) because I liked being in my room so much. That just pissed me off and I would destroy their things.....secretly.....and then hid them to find later.
I never harped on either of my boys about a dirty room. I felt I needed to pick my battles. With two sons...there are many. My virgo with the sag moon was a walking tornado who left messes wherever he went. As long as I could shut his door so I didn't have to look at it....we didn't fight about it. However, he was made to clean up every mess he made in every other part of the house....that was the agreement. Couldn't leave the house until his "trail" was removed. My Pisces was a mother's dream....libra moon, his room was always spotless. The only thing we ever argued about was him leaving the iron on, he was neurotic about ironing his clothes. Burnt the carpet once....left a real good imprint.
Trying to control your kids to do what you want....creates little adult control freaks later on. They are not your own personal robots.
There are much larger fish to fry.....sex, stds, drugs, guns, gangs, education, peer pressure, bullying, teaching independence.....a clean bedroom to your 'standards' hardly seems a priority in the big picture.



Elle..this thread is about discipline, and teaching RESPONSIBILITY for poor choices, not child abuse. Go add to my child abuse thread if you want to talk about that. Big difference.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
I don't agree with it. Humiliating a child isn't going to make them behave, and if it does it will simply be out of fear. She's been taught nothing.
My mother took the door off of the hinges to my bedroom once.....1) because my room was messy and 2) I was always in there (I loved my privacy and seclusion as a kid and also had a pesky little Taurus brother who always got in my stuff). My room was off the kitchen so with the door off, every body could see in. I was mortified. Not because it was messy....but because it was my personal space and it was now violated.
That just taught me to hide things better from my mother and everyone else.
When that didn't work, she would send me to their room for punishment (by myself) because I liked being in my room so much. That just pissed me off and I would destroy their things.....secretly.....and then hid them to find later.
I never harped on either of my boys about a dirty room. I felt I needed to pick my battles. With two sons...there are many. My virgo with the sag moon was a walking tornado who left messes wherever he went. As long as I could shut his door so I didn't have to look at it....we didn't fight about it. However, he was made to clean up every mess he made in every other part of the house....that was the agreement. Couldn't leave the house until his "trail" was removed. My Pisces was a mother's dream....libra moon, his room was always spotless. The only thing we ever argued about was him leaving the iron on, he was neurotic about ironing his clothes. Burnt the carpet once....left a real good imprint.
Trying to control your kids to do what you want....creates little adult control freaks later on. They are not your own personal robots.
There are much larger fish to fry.....sex, stds, drugs, guns, gangs, education, peer pressure, bullying, teaching independence.....a clean bedroom to your 'standards' hardly seems a priority in the big picture.



I agree with this. Humiliation only causes "resentment" in alot of children. the child in the article is an HONOR student, and her few flaw is that she's messy? Ridiculous. Too much army time in him and not enough nurturing. Definitely -- where IS the mother.
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Posted by DonAmanMarat.Well, its all good until they move YOUR stuff to the senior citizen home and then all you got left is small bit of memories and cold oatmeal in the morning.



That's not something I'm worried about at all. My future is already taken care of for the elder years which includes at home care, so he hasn't a thing to worry about except what color tie to wear to my funeral and a celebration of life party for after.
It's called a living will. All covered and funded. I did that when I was officially divorced. Didn't want to take a chance of some sick dick doing a dry hump on me in a nursing home...no siree Winking
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
I didn't say it was child abuse, LIB....you are putting words in my mouth.
I said it was probably humiliating for the daughter.
Can you imagine if the daughter was a water sign? That could be really traumatic.
Fire sign? Not so much and they would probably camp out right there on the driveway.
It's not cool, it's not funny, it's not creative at all. It's a controlling parent.


i don't even believe fire sign children would appreciate this. they may rant and rave louder, but they won't appreciate it.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
I didn't say it was child abuse, LIB....you are putting words in my mouth.
I said it was probably humiliating for the daughter.
Can you imagine if the daughter was a water sign? That could be really traumatic.
Fire sign? Not so much and they would probably camp out right there on the driveway.
It's not cool, it's not funny, it's not creative at all. It's a controlling parent.



ffs...smh
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
"Humiliation only causes "resentment" in alot of children. the child in the article is an HONOR student, and her few flaw is that she's messy?"
this ^^^^^^^^
...and the fact he posted it online.....priceless. smh.


oh god...
the pure humiliation and she'll NEVER forgive him deeply. Every interaction they will have, it'll effect her and his relationship for the rest of his life. And he won't even see and wonder WHY, because he feels he's doing RIGHT. He doens't care about her feelings at all, just making sure she is tip top shape like a robotic being.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
"Humiliation only causes "resentment" in alot of children. the child in the article is an HONOR student, and her few flaw is that she's messy?"
this ^^^^^^^^
...and the fact he posted it online.....priceless. smh.



Yet you come here and brag about how you slap your kids around in the face and throw them out into the freezing cold. Really elle...stfu!
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
level the playing field? parenting is not a game.
they have too much shit in their room to the point of it becoming annoying because they don't clean it up....stop giving them more shit.


How many bugs did you sleep with at night? ..cleanliness is a responsibility, it's first taught at home which carries over to SCHOOL, JOBS, ETC...and in the case of my son..I want his future wife to know she won't be responsibile for taking care of a pig.
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Upbringing...you can tell who has had one.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
Posted by LetltB
Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
"Humiliation only causes "resentment" in alot of children. the child in the article is an HONOR student, and her few flaw is that she's messy?"
this ^^^^^^^^
...and the fact he posted it online.....priceless. smh.


Yet you come here and brag about how you slap your kids around in the face and throw them out into the freezing cold. Really elle...stfu!


Brag?Slap my kids? That is news to me. You're reaching. I think I might have slapped one of my son's face, once when they were 17, after telling me "fuck you.". It's gonna happen. They were almost a foot taller than I am, I'm a single mother and I'll be damned if I'll be intimidated in my own home.
Yes, I threw a 20 and 22 year old (Grown ass MEN) out of my house for smoking weed in my house after clearly stating ahead of time that that wasn't acceptable.
Yes, I also threw an 18 year old out, who was not my child, because she was also doing the same thing.
Yes, they had a baby too, of which I had no legal right to keep, according to the officers that were called.Yes, I am confident that they won't pull that shit on me again or anyone else, for that matter.
That is discipline.
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we're not telling you how to raise your children...but why did they do what they did in the first place? Why did they rebel against you??? if they knew deep down it wasn't acceptable...why?
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
Brag?
Slap my kids? That is news to me. You're reaching. I think I might have slapped one of my son's face, once when they were 17, after telling me "fuck you.". It's gonna happen. They were almost a foot taller than I am, I'm a single mother and I'll be damned if I'll be intimidated in my own home.
Yes, I threw a 20 and 22 year old (Grown ass MEN) out of my house for smoking weed in my house after clearly stating ahead of time that that wasn't acceptable.
Yes, I also threw an 18 year old out, who was not my child, because she was also doing the same thing.

Yes, they had a baby too, of which I had no legal right to keep, according to the officers that were called.
Yes, I am confident that they won't pull that shit on me again or anyone else, for that matter.
That is discipline.


If you would've done basic parenting from the beginning the fuck you and the pot most likely would not have been an issue. You failed miserably along the way. It's usually called selective parenting. Can't do that. It started long before they were 17...and you know that.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
Posted by LetltB
Upbringing...you can tell who has had one.


mighty high horse you have there, missy.
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I'm a very proud parent. I'm very proud of my son. If that's called a high horse in your book, I'll own it...and thank you.
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Posted by DonAmanMarat
I dont know what gives people the right to criticize a parent on how they raise their OWN children ..looks disgusting, really.



so....if we see parents treating their children with extreme abuse, it's okay to just leave it alone?
don't call the authorities? Hey that's what social services are for right? You calling them criticizing and stuff and should be disgusting human beings over at the social service offices huh?
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Posted by DonAmanMarat
I dont know what gives people the right to criticize a parent on how they raise their OWN children ..looks disgusting, really.


You are correct, it's the parents who DON'T parent that should be criticized due to the result of having to endure a fucked up society these kids were thrown into.
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Any child that says fuck you to a parent was not disciplined early on, and was never taught respect. In fact he learned he can be cocky with you which led to the fuck you. That's your responsibility..and then to slap him in the face for it was another failure at parenting. In fact what you taught him was if anyone in the world said fuck you to him...MOMMY TAUGHT ME TO PHYSICALLY HURT THAT PERSON. Let's see you spin & blame astrology onto that.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
@ LIB
when a 17 year old child decides to talk to you like they are grown they should be treated as if they are grown.
if a a 6foot, 175lb man gets in my face and is disrespectful, you bet your ass my hand will go right across his face without batting an eyelid. it's not acceptable to disrespect a woman in that manner, let alone your mother.
Kids are going to push boundaries, our job is to keep those boundaries in tact.


You taught him NO boundries elle, and then you taught him violence. That's the reality here.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
Posted by lisabethur8 we're not telling you how to raise your children...but why did they do what they did in the first place? Why did they rebel against you??? if they knew deep down it wasn't acceptable...why?


They weren't rebelling. It was not an act of rebellion. I don't believe that was the case. They got cocky.
Plus, I was enabling just a little bit too much at the time. I had been taking care of their child for the past three months while they were to get themselves together. They got a little too comfortable.
I've discussed this with all three of them in great lengths since it happened, which was well over a year ago. None of them can tell me exactly what the hell they were thinking, but all three have been openly remorseful for it.
I won't take the blame for their behavior and choices. I raised both of them to be independent and responsible for their own choices. That one was one of their worst, thus far, into their short lives.
All three of them have learned many valuable lessons from the choice they made that night and these lessons are much larger than me.
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thanks for that. I see how it could have happened.... they got spoiled a bit more from you. It still makes no excuse on their part. They took advantage of your generousity. They (i know it's not always the case) should always remember who they should respect and never take advantage of parent's generosity. They're lucky in a way to have you as a parent -- sorry to hear that they took it too far and took advantage of that. If only it wasn't so harsh sounding -- to have a baby out in the cold you know. I bet it broke your heart.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
I pity your son when he makes a mistake, LIB.



Give examples of mistakes. I'll be happy to share what I would do elle.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
basic parenting has nothing to do with the situation regarding the pot. there are a lot of outside influences you have no control over. it's about leading by example.


All parents know that, but it starts the moment they roll over and learn how to talk & walk. Not when it's convenient for the parent.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
All I know is when you start throwing around "I would never......." while sitting atop a fifty foot wooden horse....that's when you will be confronted with those scenarios. It's karma. Good luck with that.



Oh c'mon now, don't let the lizard scorp slip elle and wish something bad happens to me or my son. It doesn't work. Bad only karma comes to those who earn it.
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IDK.. I see both sides, guys.
Some posters are mentioning how detrimental this type of discipline may/may not be for the child.
Some posters are mentioning how beneficial this type of discipline may/may not be for the child.
I think the *main* thing when it comes to things like this is knowing your child.
I mentioned earlier that my dad did something similar to the OP when I was younger. Because he knew me well enough to know:
1. That I could "handle" it (for lack of a better word),
2. That's what it would take to get through to me, and
3. I would learn a lesson from it.
However, I am the third of 10 children. The "punishment" (again, for lack of a better word) would have been different had it been one of my brothers or sisters on the receiving end. It would have been tailored to their individual personalities.
He would NEVER even think about doing something like the OP to my little sister - Cancer Sun & Moon, Pisces Rising - for instance. Because being exposed like that would absolutely humiliate and emotionally scar her.
He would also probably never do anything like the OP to my little brother - Aries through and through - because my little brother wouldn't give two shits or a single twirly fuck if his stuff was outside. He'd simply shrug and resign himself to building a tree fort and sleeping in the dirt.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry



How would I be able to state examples?

Regarding ^^^^that. Everything you are sharing here is why you couldn't state an example.
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Posted by Andalusia
IDK.. I see both sides, guys.
I think the *main* thing when it comes to things like this is knowing your child.



EXACTLY. I take this in a literal sense. If you are tuned into your child from day one and consistent with upbringing they will learn right from wrong.
If you are a parent who is "selective" because you don't want to deal with it, expect the testing to escalate. It's a choice.
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
I'm not wishing you anything bad, that's not my thing, LIB.
You obviously don't know how karma works.


Oh...I misunderstood. Well so far, karma is all good. He has a bright future. The two step children I raised from a previous marriage are doing quite well too. I still get b-day, mothers day and christmas cards. Is that good karma? Or should I expect something else?
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
bad html ^^^
Posted by lisabethur8

thanks for that. I see how it could have happened.... they got spoiled a bit more from you. It still makes no excuse on their part. They took advantage of your generousity. They (i know it's not always the case) should always remember who they should respect and never take advantage of parent's generosity. They're lucky in a way to have you as a parent -- sorry to hear that they took it too far and took advantage of that. If only it wasn't so harsh sounding -- to have a baby out in the cold you know. I bet it broke your heart.


It did break my heart but it's all been reconciled. The baby is going on two years old and he's doing wonderful....as are the parents and my virgo smile I'm terribly proud of all them. This past year has brought them all numerous opportunities and they have really strived....and also have grown up substantially.They weren't 'out in the cold'....they had a place to go. My virgo son who came on dxp was riddled with guilt and really went over the top because he was very angry with me and with himself. I was pretty hard on him that night...as him being the oldest, I felt he should have spoken up well before the joint was even lit. He blamed himself for a few months afterwards.
That night, he left well before the police showed up and they escorted the other two out with the baby. They were taken to one of her friends house and her parents came to pick them up the next day...from my house. I allowed them to gather their things and wait for her parents to arrive.
Her father was also very supportive in my decision.
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I'm glad it all worked out! smile
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
whatever floats your boat.
you still didn't quite get it, but that's fine.



Oh c'mon. You know I get it. I will tell you this...I've never had to get physically violent with any of the kids, nor did I teach them that's how to handle insults as you did. So what kind of karma do you suppose will come their way elle?
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
do you want a trophy?
all I'm saying is I pity your child/ren when they make a mistake because it's quite clear that you won't be all that understanding and able to practice empathy.
sometimes you sound like you are raising soldiers, not human beings.
I've learned as soon as I start judging others and getting all holier than though.....I'm thrown into similar circumstances that teach my ass a lesson.
as far as I'm concerned, THAT is karma.


You still want to attempt to debate this? You pity MY children? ..soldiers??? lol? Stop with the pissy grasping elle.
I take mistakes like anything. Shit happens. Depending on the severity and troubleshooting how to fix it, it has worked and the outcome has been always very positive. I feel very fortunate for that. I've never had to lay a hand on my kids either... when the school teachers or parents or any outside folks tell me I have/had very sweet, loving and polite kids, I am humbled. Shit...I have a house full of teenagers here every weekend. They love it here. When I grocery shop, I know what they like as snacks and Saturday morning brunch. Probably because their parents are absent..but really, if I was as you'd like to make me out to be, not one teenager would step foot in my house. There is a lot of love here, praise and support and will be until the day I die. That's all a kid needs. No hitting, slapping, slamming or screaming. Consistency and complete devotion.
As hard as you try to knock me elle, it makes you look pretty pathetic. I have no respect for you at all. You can't even earn respect with your own kids. I bet I understand your kids better than you do. Use that energy on yourself, it's never too late to repair things with your kids. Never too late that is..if you have the time to spare. Very telling why your son showed up here looking for help after you freaked out on all of them that night. Then you leave here for a two week break and come back TELLING US ALL how you had a complete meltdown. You brought that all here to us.
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P.S.
I'm not judging, I admit I have this need to protect and speak on kids behalf to any adult who thinks physical violence is a way to command respect. If that makes me "holier than thou" or on a high wooden horse or however you need to insult to make yourself feel better...I'll own it and the karma that comes with, cause I have to be honest elle..things are all good, and I'll knock on that wood horse out of thankfulness too. Winking
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I find it perplexing how much effort people put into defending themselves.
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Bottom line, what this father and the father with the lap top did was discipline WITHOUT physical violence. The end result...TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR CHOICES AND ACTIONS. Upbringing is everything. smile
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Posted by Astrobyn
I find it perplexing how much effort people put into defending themselves.



Hey Robyn...I have not missed you at all and you too have zilch respect from me. But since you jumped your ass in here...why not tell us who that was directed at? So it can be answered.
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Posted LetltB
Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
I pity your son when he makes a mistake, LIB.



Give examples of mistakes. I'll be happy to share what I would do elle.
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For curiosity's sake, what would you do if you had a 5 year old who learned curse words at school, and keeps saying them to you even though you're constantly explaining that they're not OK to say?
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FWIW, I support what that dad did. Except I would have put her belongings in the backyard so that passersby wouldn't be able to steal the stuff, plus it's not made public.
Anyone notice how it seems to invariably be Southern dads proactively disciplining their kids? Tongue
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
funny thing is, LIB....I wasn't knocking you at all....not until you started with the "parent of the year" crap. No parent is perfect, including yourself.
This thread was about the parent in the article. Not you. Not me....*you* made it personal, as you always do with me.
You do nothing but project yourself and your piss poor behavior on to me.
You twist my words and make up stories constantly and I'm not the only one you do it to and I'm also not the only one who notices.
You are allowed to think whatever you like about me and I'm not paying for your respect by bending to your delusional self-importance will. That's never going to be me.
I'm glad things are good for you.
I am also the only person that has to own every decision I've ever made and will sit hear proudly, with absolutely no shame, and do so.



Oh...boy, here we go.. Show me where I said I'm perfect. Where?
..and elle, let me make myself perfectly clear. You are in the DROP DEAD, GO FUCK YOURSELF ZONE, in my book, bending over would get you a kick in the ass, so don't bother.
I don't twist ANYTHING you or anyone says or does in these forums. All I have to do is remind you of your lies when you fuck up, and boy have you been slipping up. I've said this for the last four or so years YOU ARE SICK AND YOU NEED HELP. I know you feel no shame, unempaths don't..you've proven that over and over again. So instead of preaching Karma my way...I suggest you take a hard long look in the fucking mirror first. If you want to debate raising children I'm good with that. If you want to blow smoke, I'm not playing. Pull your alter screen names out and have at it.
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*non-empaths
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
Posted by LetltB
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR CHOICES AND ACTIONS OR I WILL HUMILIATE YOU IN FRONT OF EVERYONE UNTIL YOU BEND TO MY WILL. Upbringing is everything. smile


*fixed it Winking
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Whose humiliated? You? Is this that little poor me victim thing you try to do?
I thought you were "proud and shameless"? See what I mean? You lie..and you suck at it...
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Grabs Popcorn , this should be interesting
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Posted by munchkin
For curiosity's sake, what would you do if you had a 5 year old who learned curse words at school, and keeps saying them to you even though you're constantly explaining that they're not OK to say?



Dealt with this with my step-daughter. Her mother (nut job) thought it would be cute to teach her that when she lost custody. Her father and I both tried to reward her for NOT cursing, and when that did not work, she went right into counseling. Fixed in two sessions.
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Posted by munchkin
Anyone notice how it seems to invariably be Southern dads proactively disciplining their kids? Tongue


To be honest...I didn't notice BOTH were from the south, and quite frankly, it doesn't matter.
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Posted by LetltB
Posted by munchkin
For curiosity's sake, what would you do if you had a 5 year old who learned curse words at school, and keeps saying them to you even though you're constantly explaining that they're not OK to say?



Dealt with this with my step-daughter. Her mother (nut job) thought it would be cute to teach her that when she lost custody. Her father and I both tried to reward her for NOT cursing, and when that did not work, she went right into counseling. Fixed in two sessions.
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wow. I wonder how they did it.
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I think that even tho public shaming works on some kids it is pushed a little too far , with a little attention and the proper method everything can be resolved in due time. Showing your kid u are willing to take extreme action might fuck him up more . Just my two cents
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Posted by TwirlingStrawberry


Nice try again...if it were the father you were talking about YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TAKEN MY QUOTE AND TWISTED IT. Fucking hypocrite!
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Posted by LetltB
Posted by Astrobyn
I find it perplexing how much effort people put into defending themselves.



Hey Robyn...I have not missed you at all and you too have zilch respect from me. But since you jumped your ass in here...why not tell us who that was directed at? So it can be answered.
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That is actually not even true, Although I may have disagreed with you on some of your points, I don't believe I've ever been disrespectful to you. And more often than not, I actually personally agree with your opinion, but not always. Same differences and agreements on topics happen between me and Elle.
In general I think your an intelligent, caring person. But yes there are other things about your personality and actions that I find perplexing. Which would be expected since astrologically we are very different.
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