Suicide by cop...
This topic was created in the Miscellaneous forum by lildol on Sunday, November 6, 2011 and has 20 replies.
My Leo friend is talking suicide... suicide by cop to be exact. I'm the one he turns to for everything, so, I am the one to best handle this (I think anyway). I have no problem verbally smacking him up and have no problem knocking him upside his head physically if need be. But, I'm not sure if this is enough this time... he's got a date and a list before he goes out, as he puts it (no I'm not on the list - I asked).
How do I best handle this?
Thoughts, PLEASE....
How do I best handle this?
Thoughts, PLEASE....
Damen, that was distasteful!
So what's his problem exactly, why does he want to die? And what do you mean by date & list?
Posted by lildol
My Leo friend is talking suicide... suicide by cop to be exact. I'm the one he turns to for everything, so, I am the one to best handle this (I think anyway). I have no problem verbally smacking him up and have no problem knocking him upside his head physically if need be. But, I'm not sure if this is enough this time... he's got a date and a list before he goes out, as he puts it (no I'm not on the list - I asked).
How do I best handle this?
Thoughts, PLEASE....
wait im not sure i understand this...he wants to go out guns a blazing by shooting cops? or hes got a list of people and hes going on a spree? gonna be honest....those things he wants to do are beyond extreme so i doubt you can just 'talk him out of it'. is he going to kill good police, or pigs?
reminds me of "MADE IT MA! TOP OF THE WORLD!"
@ TasteOfChaos: Hm, I don't think Leos are usually THAT dramatic for the sake of attention. It's more of a Cancer thing. They are always frustrated and drastic.
I learned about this simultaneously through criminology and psychology.
Suicide by cop literally means he wants to commit suicide by forcing cops to use lethal force on him; which means he's going to have to commit something truly heinous to get them to do that. It's likely that if he went through with this, he's going to instigate the cops so that they shoot him; also in this case, it sounds like he's going to take people down with him, whether on purpose or just to get the cops to actually kill him.
I'm not clinically trained to do suicidal assessments on people, but I am currently learning how to do this with inmates, so I can try to help in some way.
Does he have a set plan? You should actually sit him down and ask him about the feelings and thoughts he's had about harming himself and/or others. Ask him if he has a plan, if he has the necessary materials, how long he's been planning this, how he plans to go through with this. Ask him who's on his list, when he plans to do this. Ask him as many necessary plans as possible. If his attempt at suicide by cop is imminent (meaning going to happen for sure), it's mostly likely he's got a plan down to a tee and that he's going to commit it soon. If you can determine that it's happening immediately, you NEED to call for help. This isn't just a suicide attempt, it also sounds like he has plans to harm others.
If you want to save your friend, you need to go behind his back and get help as soon as you can. Call police, call people who know him, ect. You need to figure out where he's storing weapons, what kind of weapons, ect. If you can, you should try to ask his permission to getting help. If he refuses, you should try getting help anyway.
Suicide by cop literally means he wants to commit suicide by forcing cops to use lethal force on him; which means he's going to have to commit something truly heinous to get them to do that. It's likely that if he went through with this, he's going to instigate the cops so that they shoot him; also in this case, it sounds like he's going to take people down with him, whether on purpose or just to get the cops to actually kill him.
I'm not clinically trained to do suicidal assessments on people, but I am currently learning how to do this with inmates, so I can try to help in some way.
Does he have a set plan? You should actually sit him down and ask him about the feelings and thoughts he's had about harming himself and/or others. Ask him if he has a plan, if he has the necessary materials, how long he's been planning this, how he plans to go through with this. Ask him who's on his list, when he plans to do this. Ask him as many necessary plans as possible. If his attempt at suicide by cop is imminent (meaning going to happen for sure), it's mostly likely he's got a plan down to a tee and that he's going to commit it soon. If you can determine that it's happening immediately, you NEED to call for help. This isn't just a suicide attempt, it also sounds like he has plans to harm others.
If you want to save your friend, you need to go behind his back and get help as soon as you can. Call police, call people who know him, ect. You need to figure out where he's storing weapons, what kind of weapons, ect. If you can, you should try to ask his permission to getting help. If he refuses, you should try getting help anyway.
...when someone says they will commit suicide whichever way...even if they have been talking about it for years...believe them...I grew up with a father that constantly told us he would kill himself...how...what...why every detail to the point of kneeling in front of us and holding a shotgun to his mouth to show us how...when we were just kids...true to his words he did exactly that ...exactly how he said he would...even phoned us he was just about to do it...it's just a matter of their breaking point and it's done...they plan it well in advanced...
He needs help immediately...professional !!
He needs help immediately...professional !!
Wow Piranha sorry about your father 
Lildol maybe you should call a suicide hotline and explain the situation so they can help you figure this out. Hopefully they will know how this should be handled. Also, when you say list do mean a list of people he wants to kill?
Lildol maybe you should call a suicide hotline and explain the situation so they can help you figure this out. Hopefully they will know how this should be handled. Also, when you say list do mean a list of people he wants to kill?
Posted by lildol
I'm the one he turns to for everything ....
First of all ... what do you mean by that?
If you are saying the when the going gets tough and he needs a kick in the ass to get his head straight ... then it would be easy to conclude that he doesn't want to do what he's proposed, rather, he wants someone to show him, help him, get his screwed up thoughts together.
If you are saying that he tells you all the things he actually does, as you being his sounding board ... then is would be prudent to conclude that when he does it, he just made you his accessory in his crime and us the witnesses to the fact that you knew this was going to happen.
So, before any action can be taken on your end .... you first have to get a grip on the reason why he told you.
It would be logical to assume that a person who plans on doing something of this magnitude would keep it secret. For the fact that he told you is a clear indication that he would rather have help, than carry through with it.
Something I find interesting with things like this, and Candeh is likely learning about the psychology of it also ... is that when people do things like this, or when they commit suicide ... thier people always say things to suggest that they didn't know it was going to happen, that if they had an inkling that little Johnny needed help then they would have done something .. alas, they didn't know, he always seemed like happy boy.
In reality .. a person suffering distraught isn't diabolical until AFTER nobody did anything about his pleas for help.
Generally, a person would rather be heard, they would rather their words be taken seriously, they would prefer that somebody notice that they have a problem in which they cannot resolve, or notice that their heart/feelings have been gutted so harshly that they don't know how to proceed living under those circumstances.
Those people are usually faced with bullshit like ... you're ok, you'll be fine, don't worry about it, that's just the way people are dear, you just have to ignore it, just move on, we love you isn't that what matters?
None of that ^^^^^^^^^^^^ does anything for the person seeking help ... it does make the person saying it feel like they said something, without having to get involved, until AFTER the fact, when they comment in saying something like ...
.... he could have talked to me, I would have helped if I had known.
It really grieves me to no end that people are superificial, yet, think they are helping by offering support rather than actually answers.
In reality .. a person suffering distraught isn't diabolical until AFTER nobody did anything about his pleas for help.
Generally, a person would rather be heard, they would rather their words be taken seriously, they would prefer that somebody notice that they have a problem in which they cannot resolve, or notice that their heart/feelings have been gutted so harshly that they don't know how to proceed living under those circumstances.
Those people are usually faced with bullshit like ... you're ok, you'll be fine, don't worry about it, that's just the way people are dear, you just have to ignore it, just move on, we love you isn't that what matters?
None of that ^^^^^^^^^^^^ does anything for the person seeking help ... it does make the person saying it feel like they said something, without having to get involved, until AFTER the fact, when they comment in saying something like ...
.... he could have talked to me, I would have helped if I had known.
It really grieves me to no end that people are superificial, yet, think they are helping by offering support rather than actually answers.
Posted by P-AngelPosted by lildol
I'm the one he turns to for everything ....
First of all ... what do you mean by that?click to expand
Wow, once again you've outwitted us all by seeing somthing that the rest of us just don't see: a totally random and pointless piece of information that you desperately need to pick to death just so that you can feel original.
She means she's the one he turns for everything. No more, no less.
Posted by P-Angel
Something I find interesting with things like this, and Candeh is likely learning about the psychology of it also ... is that when people do things like this, or when they commit suicide ... thier people always say things to suggest that they didn't know it was going to happen, that if they had an inkling that little Johnny needed help then they would have done something .. alas, they didn't know, he always seemed like happy boy.
In reality .. a person suffering distraught isn't diabolical until AFTER nobody did anything about his pleas for help.
Generally, a person would rather be heard, they would rather their words be taken seriously, they would prefer that somebody notice that they have a problem in which they cannot resolve, or notice that their heart/feelings have been gutted so harshly that they don't know how to proceed living under those circumstances.
Those people are usually faced with bullshit like ... you're ok, you'll be fine, don't worry about it, that's just the way people are dear, you just have to ignore it, just move on, we love you isn't that what matters?
None of that ^^^^^^^^^^^^ does anything for the person seeking help ... it does make the person saying it feel like they said something, without having to get involved, until AFTER the fact, when they comment in saying something like ...
.... he could have talked to me, I would have helped if I had known.
It really grieves me to no end that people are superificial, yet, think they are helping by offering support rather than actually answers.
I'm also learning that when you actually sit someone down and extensively discuss suicide/their plans for it they tend to decompress a little and are less likely to go through with it. I mean, it's not certain that they'll stop altogether, but it gives you more time to figure out how close to commiting suicide the person is when you actually speak to them about it. Also, I learned that talking to them about it is never a reason to believe that you are pushing the person further to commit suicide. So in other words, don't hesitate or brush it off as if it's nothing.
Posted by Candeh15
Posted by P-Angel
Something I find interesting with things like this, and Candeh is likely learning about the psychology of it also ... is that when people do things like this, or when they commit suicide ... thier people always say things to suggest that they didn't know it was going to happen, that if they had an inkling that little Johnny needed help then they would have done something .. alas, they didn't know, he always seemed like happy boy.
In reality .. a person suffering distraught isn't diabolical until AFTER nobody did anything about his pleas for help.
Generally, a person would rather be heard, they would rather their words be taken seriously, they would prefer that somebody notice that they have a problem in which they cannot resolve, or notice that their heart/feelings have been gutted so harshly that they don't know how to proceed living under those circumstances.
Those people are usually faced with bullshit like ... you're ok, you'll be fine, don't worry about it, that's just the way people are dear, you just have to ignore it, just move on, we love you isn't that what matters?
None of that ^^^^^^^^^^^^ does anything for the person seeking help ... it does make the person saying it feel like they said something, without having to get involved, until AFTER the fact, when they comment in saying something like ...
.... he could have talked to me, I would have helped if I had known.
It really grieves me to no end that people are superificial, yet, think they are helping by offering support rather than actually answers.
I'm also learning that when you actually sit someone down and extensively discuss suicide/their plans for it they tend to decompress a little and are less likely to go through with it. I mean, it's not certain that they'll stop altogether, but it gives you more time to figure out how close to commiting suicide the person is when you actually speak to them about it. Also, I learned that talking to them about it is never a reason to believe that you are pushing the person further to commit suicide. So in other words, don't hesitate or brush it off as if it's nothing.click to expand
Not talking to a person, or not caring about a person who is standing on this emotional precipice will aid in them carrying through with thei
Posted by P-AngelPosted by lildol
I'm the one he turns to for everything ....
First of all ... what do you mean by that?
If you are saying the when the going gets tough and he needs a kick in the ass to get his head straight ... then it would be easy to conclude that he doesn't want to do what he's proposed, rather, he wants someone to show him, help him, get his screwed up thoughts together.
If you are saying that he tells you all the things he actually does, as you being his sounding board ... then is would be prudent to conclude that when he does it, he just made you his accessory in his crime and us the witnesses to the fact that you knew this was going to happen.
So, before any action can be taken on your end .... you first have to get a grip on the reason why he told you.
It would be logical to assume that a person who plans on doing something of this magnitude would keep it secret. For the fact that he told you is a clear indication that he would rather have help, than carry through with it.click to expand
He could just be turning to you for the purpose of aweing you into believing he's great. Most people who look to take others out believe that they do a good deed, and since he is telling you, while making sure you aren't one of them .. he might be looking for approval from you in believing that he is brave and courageous.
Again, it all depends on what you meant by he turns to you for everything.
The most important thing to realize with suicide is that you are the person afraid .. they are not.
When you walk on eggshells and get a little freaked about the reality of this prospect with a person you know .... the first thing you have to put in your mind is that you are the one afraid of that reality, not them.
So, Candeh would be correct when she says, "talking to them about it is never a reason to believe that you are pushing the person further to commit suicide" .. and that is exactly what people believe and in so doing, think that if they talk to the person wanting to die that they will scare them into doing it more.
Don't forget .. you can't scare them by talking about it because they aren't afraid of it.
When you walk on eggshells and get a little freaked about the reality of this prospect with a person you know .... the first thing you have to put in your mind is that you are the one afraid of that reality, not them.
So, Candeh would be correct when she says, "talking to them about it is never a reason to believe that you are pushing the person further to commit suicide" .. and that is exactly what people believe and in so doing, think that if they talk to the person wanting to die that they will scare them into doing it more.
Don't forget .. you can't scare them by talking about it because they aren't afraid of it.
Candeh gave a great interpretation of what I was saying. Yes, suicide by cop is to set yourself up to be killed by them. And, yes, he has a specific date in mind, the date his mom passed 2 years ago. And, yes, there is a list of people in his mind he wants to take out before the planned standoff.
I did speak with the police yesterday morning, prior to ever posting here. When I spoke to my Leo friend last night he expressed is discontent with "someone" reporting it. I had told the police that I was concerned he would be mad with me. The same officers who were at my house were the one's who went to visit him so they knew my position and maintained my anonymity - which they do have to do. According to him, he wanted them to charge "whomever" contacted them for making a false police report. Although, he did call the suicide hotline on their request, while they were there but denied having such thoughts. So, that still leaves me as his confidant and the one to talk him through things I think. He must have shared with someone else though as he didn't point the finger at me. Actually, he pointed the finger at the police and considers himself a marked man for getting into a scuffle with a female officer when arrested for a DUI last week. Yes, that is the catalyst at this point (and an ex girlfriend). So, pushing him closer, I'm not sure, it almost seems that way as he feels attention has been unduly drawn to him by law enforcement, which he doesn't trust and feels that they are out to get him.
He seems calmer tonight though... not talking crazy shit. I just need to be supportive with what he's going through and keep him on the straight and narrow!
I did speak with the police yesterday morning, prior to ever posting here. When I spoke to my Leo friend last night he expressed is discontent with "someone" reporting it. I had told the police that I was concerned he would be mad with me. The same officers who were at my house were the one's who went to visit him so they knew my position and maintained my anonymity - which they do have to do. According to him, he wanted them to charge "whomever" contacted them for making a false police report. Although, he did call the suicide hotline on their request, while they were there but denied having such thoughts. So, that still leaves me as his confidant and the one to talk him through things I think. He must have shared with someone else though as he didn't point the finger at me. Actually, he pointed the finger at the police and considers himself a marked man for getting into a scuffle with a female officer when arrested for a DUI last week. Yes, that is the catalyst at this point (and an ex girlfriend). So, pushing him closer, I'm not sure, it almost seems that way as he feels attention has been unduly drawn to him by law enforcement, which he doesn't trust and feels that they are out to get him.
He seems calmer tonight though... not talking crazy shit. I just need to be supportive with what he's going through and keep him on the straight and narrow!
Posted by lildol
He seems calmer tonight though...
yeh don't mistake this as anything positive...until he gets help for this...calm can be a sign he is going through with it...
until he gets professional help...you can't keep him on the straight and narrow...
If he is a danger to others or is wanting to *take out* others he needs to be put in for help by someone...
He sounds off the wire and is trying to take the attention off himself no doubt to accomplish his plan...
"...calm can be a sign he is going through with it..."
Yes.
Honestly, he sounds like a fucking coward. Could never consider him a friend, but in the meantime, you need to get him admitted. Record his converstions, do whatever it takes. Because if he does follow through, you will forever feel responsible in some way.
Yes.
Honestly, he sounds like a fucking coward. Could never consider him a friend, but in the meantime, you need to get him admitted. Record his converstions, do whatever it takes. Because if he does follow through, you will forever feel responsible in some way.
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