'Prove Jesus Existed' Judge orders Priest

This topic was created in the Aquarius forum by MellowDee on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 and has 7 replies.

Take from url: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1967413,00.html
Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest
From Richard Owen in Rome

AN ITALIAN judge has ordered a priest to appear in court this month to prove that Jesus Christ existed.
The case against Father Enrico Righi has been brought in the town of Viterbo, north of Rome, by Luigi Cascioli, a retired agronomist who once studied for the priesthood but later became a militant atheist.
Signor Cascioli, author of a book called The Fable of Christ, began legal proceedings against Father Righi three years ago after the priest denounced Signor Cascioli in the parish newsletter for questioning Christ?s historical existence.
Yesterday Gaetano Mautone, a judge in Viterbo, set a preliminary hearing for the end of this month and ordered Father Righi to appear. The judge had earlier refused to take up the case, but was overruled last month by the Court of Appeal, which agreed that Signor Cascioli had a reasonable case for his accusation that Father Righi was ?abusing popular credulity?.
Signor Cascioli?s contention ? echoed in numerous atheist books and internet sites ? is that there was no reliable evidence that Jesus lived and died in 1st-century Palestine apart from the Gospel accounts, which Christians took on faith. There is therefore no basis for Christianity, he claims.
Signor Cascioli?s one-man campaign came to a head at a court hearing last April when he lodged his accusations of ?abuse of popular credulity? and ?impersonation?, both offences under the Italian penal code. He argued that all claims for the existence of Jesus from sources other than the Bible stem from authors who lived ?after the time of the hypothetical Jesus? and were therefore not reliable witnesses.
Signor Cascioli maintains that early Christian writers confused Jesus with John of Gamala, an anti-Roman Jewish insurgent in 1st-century Palestine. Church authorities were therefore guilty of ?substitution of persons?.
The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius mention a ?Christus? or ?Chrestus?, but were writing ?well after the life of the purported Jesus? and were relying on hearsay.
Father Righi said there was overwhelming testimony to Christ?s existence in religious and secular texts. Millions had in any case believed in Christ as both man and Son of God for 2,000 years.
?If Cascioli does not see the sun in the sky at midday, he cannot sue me because I see it and he does not,? Father Righi said.
Signor Cascioli said that the Gospels themselves were full of inconsistencies and did not agree on the names of the 12 apostles. He said that he would withdraw his legal action if Father Righi came up with irrefutable proof of Christ?s existence by the end of the month.
The Vatican has so far declined to comment.
THE EVIDENCE
The Gospels say that Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary in Bethlehem, grew up in Nazareth, preached and performed miracles in Galilee and died on the Cross in Jerusalem
In his Antiquities of the Jews at the end of the 1st century, Josephus, the Jewish historian, refers to Jesus as ?a wise man, a doer of wonderful works? who ?drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles?
Muslims believe Jesus was a great prophet. Many Jewish theologians regard Jesus as an itinerant rabbi who popularised many of the beliefs of liberal Jews. Neither Muslims nor Jews believe he was the Messiah and Son of God
Tacitus, the Roman historian who lived from 55 to 120, mentions ?Christus? in his Annals. In about 120 Suetonius, author of The Lives of the Caesars, says: ?Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, Emperor Claudius expelled them from Rome.?

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Yes that is your opinion. A very interesting and enlightening one too Winking
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Yes but it's interesting the way by a kind of legal and religious loophole this case got to court. I wonder if the atheist Luigi Cascioli had to take an oath on the Bible when he was giving evidence in court!
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Well actually that can be quite easily proven; all you need to do is call up to the stand an astrophysicist who could prove it in a few "easy" steps. Ironically , a few centuries ago the Church almost put Galileo to death for proving the earth wasn't flat and went around the sun! The above case got to court because the priest Father Righi had denounced Cascioli for questioning the existence of Christ and Cascioli basically challenged him in a kind of libel action.
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Yes but it's very tricky to prove that Jesus Christ as the Messiah existed. This is where faith is a factor.
The case is pretty farsical and should not have been played out in court in my opinion but as an aside, I do think the Church, especially in the past, has been incredibly arrogant and domineering. I mean, if Senior Casicoli wanted to blab in a catholic newsletter his atheist tirades, then Father Righi should have just have said gently that this really wasn't the forum to utter these kind of things and that he's pray for his soul etc etc ...to diffuse the situation. Like, it would do a lot for the PR of the Church if they toned down their stern conservative stance on things and became people friendly. Isn't this kinda how Jesus was anyway? Modern business ethics and practices have had to move with the times so why shouldn't the Church?
Actually the Catholic Church is pretty good in this regard if you compare them to the Islamic faith which is literally still in back in the Dark Ages as regards their views on a lot of things like, freedom of speech, women's rights, democracy. IMO it would hugely improve and restore the tarnished and dwindling power of the Church and make it a place that people actively sought as a sanctuary of love, peace and wisdom. I think in connection with this, priests should be allowed to marry to allow them to be normal human men as well as servants of God.
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PRimegen that'snot really what I'm getting at. I mean that in general there is a basic code of behavour below which a company cannot fall in terms of how they treat their works. Like for example, a company cannot pay a worker below minimum wage, of they are liable for a big fine; a company in most cases has to pay a woker holiday and sick pay. This was unheard of 50 years ago. This is what I mean by keeping up with the times. I;m talking about evolving for the better. And so priests should be allowed to marry in IMO because this is only the humane thing to do. Also, back to Jesus, it is not even certain that he wasn't married himself and had children. This was a rule imposed by the church for reasons best known to the vatican, not because of any sermon or commandment that Jesus preached on a hilltop.
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Ok then perhaps that is the correct term for what I am talking about, so so rephrase I think that the Church should try to streamline their methods and practices to go along with society much more than it has done or is doing today, even though the Catholic Church has done more than the Islamic religion to at least try to be at least tolerant and accepting of all peoples.
The state of the Catholic Church today is such that the number of new priests being ordained is pathetically low and IMO the Church should carry out a total over haul of their image, much the same as a company would re package their product to generate new interest. And the first thing they should focus on is making it appealing for a man to want to become a priest. The fact that there are scandals and atrocities coming out left right and centre of paedophile priests who abused children, is not warming people to the catholic faith. And celibacy is not really a big issue for lay people. I think, if a study were done, it would show that the majority of Catholics are not bothered about whether their priests are allowed to marry or not.
It is NATURAL for a man to have sexual urges towards a woman (if he is not homosexual) and therefore for the Church to supress this is wrong and as any psychological research will indidcate, will lead to even more disturbing bahviours manifesting in the man later on (such as paedophilia for example). The Church in the past enforced its beliefs about natural birth control methods as being the only acceptable means of family planning, so why should they force a young priest to go against nature and take a vow of celibacy?
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