Let's Talk About Sex :)
This topic was created in the Scorpio forum by SouthernT on Saturday, November 10, 2007 and has 129 replies.
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So for everybody out there, in your past situations, did sex make or break the deal for your partner? Did they bail and jump ship afterwards or did it bring the two of you closer together?
Women need emotional security for sex and guys need sex to feel closer to a woman. So, who wins and how? Men dont understand the emotional and women dont understand the physical. Where's the median?
Women need emotional security for sex and guys need sex to feel closer to a woman. So, who wins and how? Men dont understand the emotional and women dont understand the physical. Where's the median?
Handcuff him to the bed on his stomach .. bind him really tight, until it hurts .. have a strap-on ..
Tell him .... "You're gonna love me dammit, or I'll fuck you to death up the ass".
He'll be squealing .. yes .. but, the whimpers will be of obediance to ONLY you .. he will spill his heart out to you .. everything you want to hear.
Tell him .... "You're gonna love me dammit, or I'll fuck you to death up the ass".
He'll be squealing .. yes .. but, the whimpers will be of obediance to ONLY you .. he will spill his heart out to you .. everything you want to hear.
On a serious note ... from the female perspective .. I believe having what you need to feel complete is the breaker/keeper.
This question comes from the males needs .. does sex make or break?
That's male .. for to them is where this need comes from in a relationship.
Emotional support is female .. has this question been asked of women?
To Women: Does an emotional attachment, or lack thereof, make/break the partnership?
This question comes from the males needs .. does sex make or break?
That's male .. for to them is where this need comes from in a relationship.
Emotional support is female .. has this question been asked of women?
To Women: Does an emotional attachment, or lack thereof, make/break the partnership?
"He'll be squealing .. yes .. but, the whimpers will be of obediance to ONLY you .. he will spill his heart out to you .. everything you want to hear."
LMAO....you are ruthless.
LMAO....you are ruthless.
I also agree with leokitten .. sometimes, it's just about sex and not every union is suppose to be tied to emotions .. or, the "love" emotion.
Let's look at this from reverse ... I'm in a marriage of 25 years, and certainly, after this time, have an emotional attachment.
However, I've cut him off (ages ago) .. he's still here.
However, I've cut him off (ages ago) .. he's still here.
"To Women: Does an emotional attachment, or lack thereof, make/break the partnership?"
For myself, all I need to know is that a man cares about me and has good intentions with my heart. And I need to know that he is a man of his word. He doesnt have to be "IN LOVE" with me per say. (that would be nice to know before hand but in real life it just doesnt happen). But for me, no emtional attachment is a deal breaker.
Typical story: I tried "care free" sex with one guy and got hurt. Slept with him, started catching feelings, he didnt feel the same way, he ended up in a relationship with another chick. I will NEVER do that again. Which is typically why a woman will hold back sex with the next guy.
For myself, all I need to know is that a man cares about me and has good intentions with my heart. And I need to know that he is a man of his word. He doesnt have to be "IN LOVE" with me per say. (that would be nice to know before hand but in real life it just doesnt happen). But for me, no emtional attachment is a deal breaker.
Typical story: I tried "care free" sex with one guy and got hurt. Slept with him, started catching feelings, he didnt feel the same way, he ended up in a relationship with another chick. I will NEVER do that again. Which is typically why a woman will hold back sex with the next guy.
"sex is exactly what you make of it. sometimes, it can just be sex. not every roll in the hay needs to be an emotional experience."
True. but wouldnt you rather know before sex whether or not a guy cares about you? Because if you find out before hand then it gives you the chance to stay or walk away right? Or are you saying just have sex with no intentions and see where you end up?
True. but wouldnt you rather know before sex whether or not a guy cares about you? Because if you find out before hand then it gives you the chance to stay or walk away right? Or are you saying just have sex with no intentions and see where you end up?
"i love my cancer. but i can say that every time we have sex, it is not an expression of our love. sometimes, sure, it is more emotional, but really what it is is athe quest for awesome orgasms...with a person who because of an emotional attachment outside the bedroom you implicity trust...and with that trust comes an ability to be open and uninhibited..which leads to awesome sex."
But my question for you is did he show you before guys even had sex, did he express to you how he felt and what he wanted? Or did you guys have sex first and then just ended up in a relationship?
But my question for you is did he show you before guys even had sex, did he express to you how he felt and what he wanted? Or did you guys have sex first and then just ended up in a relationship?
And for the record everybody, my question is NOT in regards to casual sex or "friends with benefits" type situations. I'm talking real relationships here.
Baggage .. that's inconcievable to Pisces.
That person over there .. is THAT person.
This person here .. is THIS person.
"He doesnt have to be "IN LOVE" with me per say."
My husband feels the same way .. he couldn't care a less whether I'm in love with him, or not ... just so long as I present his concept of what love is suppose to mean. Pisces can wear any suit ... role players.
Is this a Virgo condition, then?
That person over there .. is THAT person.
This person here .. is THIS person.
"He doesnt have to be "IN LOVE" with me per say."
My husband feels the same way .. he couldn't care a less whether I'm in love with him, or not ... just so long as I present his concept of what love is suppose to mean. Pisces can wear any suit ... role players.
Is this a Virgo condition, then?
if i am dating a guy, and we get along...and he agrees to exclusivity (and checks out)...then yeah i will have sex with him without him declaring his feelings or intentions."
Bingo...."if he agrees to exclusivity". Alot of guys out here are not agreeing to that BEFORE the sex. So you and I are on the same page here. I think all women feel this way.
Bingo...."if he agrees to exclusivity". Alot of guys out here are not agreeing to that BEFORE the sex. So you and I are on the same page here. I think all women feel this way.
"my question for you is did he show you before guys even had sex, did he express to you how he felt and what he wanted? Or did you guys have sex first and then just ended up in a relationship?"
Sex first .... in every relationship I've ever had.
Sex first .... in every relationship I've ever had.
Southern .. I lived with a guy for 3 years and we never "talked" about what we wanted in the future.
It was perfect and beautiful, as each moment passed ... when it was over, we walked away.
Did we love each other? Absolutely, no question .. but, it didn't HAVE to be more .. we weren't looking for more, we were only looking for it to be wonderful, fulfilling as each day passed.
Had we been focused on the future .. we would have missed what was taking place in the moment .. if we had been thinking about what was expected in the future, then the present would have failed miserably because today is NOT tomorrow .... however, if we embrace today for everything it is worth, then tomorrow will be even more beautiful because when we look at yesterday .. we have awesome memories of being together .. whereas, if we were worried about the future, then our memories would have been about fret and worry of what might be, instead of what is.
To date, with this outlook ... I haven't been burnt in a relationship because I have no expectations except what they are right now ... who they are tomorrow WILL indeed change, so how can I possibly expect them to be this same person 10 years from now? That's impossible, for every moment you spend today, changes the person you will become.
It was perfect and beautiful, as each moment passed ... when it was over, we walked away.
Did we love each other? Absolutely, no question .. but, it didn't HAVE to be more .. we weren't looking for more, we were only looking for it to be wonderful, fulfilling as each day passed.
Had we been focused on the future .. we would have missed what was taking place in the moment .. if we had been thinking about what was expected in the future, then the present would have failed miserably because today is NOT tomorrow .... however, if we embrace today for everything it is worth, then tomorrow will be even more beautiful because when we look at yesterday .. we have awesome memories of being together .. whereas, if we were worried about the future, then our memories would have been about fret and worry of what might be, instead of what is.
To date, with this outlook ... I haven't been burnt in a relationship because I have no expectations except what they are right now ... who they are tomorrow WILL indeed change, so how can I possibly expect them to be this same person 10 years from now? That's impossible, for every moment you spend today, changes the person you will become.
"Baggage .. that's inconcievable to Pisces."
mmmm.....wouldnt necessarily call it baggage. I would call it being a little smarter next time around and learning from past mistakes. Maybe it's the Virgo in me but, if you keep doing the same action over and over again and you keep getting the wrong response, wouldnt you change your action to get the response that you want?
"My husband feels the same way .. he couldn't care a less whether I'm in love with him, or not ... just so long as I present his concept of what love is suppose to mean. Is this a Virgo condition, then?"
No not at all. Virgo's care very deeply about whether a person is in love with us or not. With a Virgo, there are no shades of gray. We are in love with you or we are not. And the same goes for the other party. You are in love with me or you are not. It all depends on your definition of love vs. his definition of love. The way that he expresses love vs. the way that you express love. Once a Virgo is in love or is experiencing love, we dont/can't let go. We dont know HOW to let go. Feelings are not something that Virgo's just turn on and off with a switch. (until we are totally fed up)
mmmm.....wouldnt necessarily call it baggage. I would call it being a little smarter next time around and learning from past mistakes. Maybe it's the Virgo in me but, if you keep doing the same action over and over again and you keep getting the wrong response, wouldnt you change your action to get the response that you want?
"My husband feels the same way .. he couldn't care a less whether I'm in love with him, or not ... just so long as I present his concept of what love is suppose to mean. Is this a Virgo condition, then?"
No not at all. Virgo's care very deeply about whether a person is in love with us or not. With a Virgo, there are no shades of gray. We are in love with you or we are not. And the same goes for the other party. You are in love with me or you are not. It all depends on your definition of love vs. his definition of love. The way that he expresses love vs. the way that you express love. Once a Virgo is in love or is experiencing love, we dont/can't let go. We dont know HOW to let go. Feelings are not something that Virgo's just turn on and off with a switch. (until we are totally fed up)
"Not for this virgo. I can tell whether it's just the concept or the facade of a relationship vs really loving me."
Oh, well .. then it's just person specific and not sign related.
"If I was married to someone and they we weren't having sex, I'd feel very insecure. Do you think he's just comfortable of your situation so he doesn't feel the need to change it?"
He's pretty insecure about the celebacy and is NOT happy about it, to say the least .. however, I made the decision .. I'm not happy emotionally, he doesn't comprehend that I'm not happy, which directly effects his happiness .... it has cascaded down to our sex-life.
He wants sex .. I want emotional support. Guess what?
I don't get the emotional support .. he doesn't get sex .. that's the way it works.
However, he's still here .. so, now I'm faced with re-analyzing my position .. have I been blind? Am I actually being ignorant to the truth?
Oh, well .. then it's just person specific and not sign related.
"If I was married to someone and they we weren't having sex, I'd feel very insecure. Do you think he's just comfortable of your situation so he doesn't feel the need to change it?"
He's pretty insecure about the celebacy and is NOT happy about it, to say the least .. however, I made the decision .. I'm not happy emotionally, he doesn't comprehend that I'm not happy, which directly effects his happiness .... it has cascaded down to our sex-life.
He wants sex .. I want emotional support. Guess what?
I don't get the emotional support .. he doesn't get sex .. that's the way it works.
However, he's still here .. so, now I'm faced with re-analyzing my position .. have I been blind? Am I actually being ignorant to the truth?
"we got along well, our dates were great. we did not want to date other people. i do not believe you have to be to "relationship" stage to have sex. i mean how long would you have to wait? i am way hornier than that."
and
"Sex first .... in every relationship I've ever had."
mmmmmm.....then this ties into my "stages of dating" thread. I think that I've been trying to skip the "dating" phase and jump straight into the "relationship" phase. OK, but tell me this: If the two of you are "dating" and agreeing not to have sex with anybody else, then how is that different from an "exclusive" relationship. I don't get it?
and
"Sex first .... in every relationship I've ever had."
mmmmmm.....then this ties into my "stages of dating" thread. I think that I've been trying to skip the "dating" phase and jump straight into the "relationship" phase. OK, but tell me this: If the two of you are "dating" and agreeing not to have sex with anybody else, then how is that different from an "exclusive" relationship. I don't get it?
"and when you say most men will not agree to that..i would argue...most women fail top ask because they are afraid. i do not ask. i inform and get agreement or move on."
You and I are esentially saying the same thing. If I decide that I'm ready to be intimate with a man, then it's with the understanding that he's not having sex with anybody else either. I dont think any woman is afraid to say that to a man. (or at least she shouldnt be afraid.) But here's were I'm making the mistake: I assume that if man agrees to not have sex with anybody else, then that means that he and I are in a relationship. But obviously, I have it wrong.
You and I are esentially saying the same thing. If I decide that I'm ready to be intimate with a man, then it's with the understanding that he's not having sex with anybody else either. I dont think any woman is afraid to say that to a man. (or at least she shouldnt be afraid.) But here's were I'm making the mistake: I assume that if man agrees to not have sex with anybody else, then that means that he and I are in a relationship. But obviously, I have it wrong.
Had we been focused on the future .. we would have missed what was taking place in the moment .. if we had been thinking about what was expected in the future, then the present "would have failed miserably because today is NOT tomorrow .... however, if we embrace today for everything it is worth, then tomorrow will be even more beautiful because when we look at yesterday .. we have awesome memories of being together .. whereas, if we were worried about the future, then our memories would have been about fret and worry of what might be, instead of what is.
To date, with this outlook ... I haven't been burnt in a relationship because I have no expectations except what they are right now ... who they are tomorrow WILL indeed change, so how can I possibly expect them to be this same person 10 years from now? That's impossible, for every moment you spend today, changes the person you will become."
I wish like crazy I could get myself to this point. I hate worrying about the future. I'm trying so very hard to get to this point and just enjoy whatever comes each day and stop trying to be logical and analytical. I need to make a more conscious effort to do this. I'm probably sabbotaging situations with men and not even realizing it.
To date, with this outlook ... I haven't been burnt in a relationship because I have no expectations except what they are right now ... who they are tomorrow WILL indeed change, so how can I possibly expect them to be this same person 10 years from now? That's impossible, for every moment you spend today, changes the person you will become."
I wish like crazy I could get myself to this point. I hate worrying about the future. I'm trying so very hard to get to this point and just enjoy whatever comes each day and stop trying to be logical and analytical. I need to make a more conscious effort to do this. I'm probably sabbotaging situations with men and not even realizing it.
"He wants sex .. I want emotional support. Guess what?
I don't get the emotional support .. he doesn't get sex .. that's the way it works.
However, he's still here .. so, now I'm faced with re-analyzing my position .. have I been blind? Am I actually being ignorant to the truth?"
Oh wow.....I didnt know anything about your situation P-Angel. Withholding sex from him is not going to bridge that gap. Can you answer this question: What do you need emotionally? Can you answer this question for yourself and then verbalize it for him? and WHO'S responsibility is it to provide each one of those things? And this may sound very corny, but I did this exercise and it made me realize alot about myself.
Write down a list of the things you want or need. Then next to each one of those things, write down the person that is responsible for giving you each one of those things.
Again, it may sound corny, but when I actually took the time to do it, it made me realize alot.
I don't get the emotional support .. he doesn't get sex .. that's the way it works.
However, he's still here .. so, now I'm faced with re-analyzing my position .. have I been blind? Am I actually being ignorant to the truth?"
Oh wow.....I didnt know anything about your situation P-Angel. Withholding sex from him is not going to bridge that gap. Can you answer this question: What do you need emotionally? Can you answer this question for yourself and then verbalize it for him? and WHO'S responsibility is it to provide each one of those things? And this may sound very corny, but I did this exercise and it made me realize alot about myself.
Write down a list of the things you want or need. Then next to each one of those things, write down the person that is responsible for giving you each one of those things.
Again, it may sound corny, but when I actually took the time to do it, it made me realize alot.
The things that are on you list that you feel HE needs to provide, then write down HOW he can do it. And then present these things to him. Virgo's are logical thinkers. It's simple, you tell him HOW he can give you what you need, then that's what he will do.
"because a relationship inherently takes time. that is the part you are skipping. you can date exclusively...but that is not a committed relationship. what you are seeking is "it" the thing were you are a "couple"....and there is a difference. my cancer and i dated exclusively forawhile...but were not a "couple"...but time goes by...you share more, you share experiences...you develop trust, families get involved....and then you are a couple...then you have a "partner"...you are part of a team.
those concepts...or partner, couple, team...that is not dating...exclusive or otherwise."
You pissed me off earlier but now your cool in my book.
Everything that you just said is what's causing problems for me out here. Now I understand what I'm doing wrong. Boy am I doing this wrong. I didnt understand any of this until just now. Here's my "AH HA" moment. (light bulb finally goes off)...lol...Thanks Leo
those concepts...or partner, couple, team...that is not dating...exclusive or otherwise."
You pissed me off earlier but now your cool in my book.
Everything that you just said is what's causing problems for me out here. Now I understand what I'm doing wrong. Boy am I doing this wrong. I didnt understand any of this until just now. Here's my "AH HA" moment. (light bulb finally goes off)...lol...Thanks Leo"Falling in love for this virgo is rare. I love people and enjoy my friends, but love is a rare rare thing for me. I wait for the lightning bolt...lol I just want to make sure people understand that because when you say don't/can't let go and don't know how to let go, I don't want people to get nervous about us."
Oh dont get me wrong. It's very rare for me too. It's been 4 years since I've felt this way about a guy. And I think that's what everybody on here doesnt realize. So I know that "lightning bolt" that your talking about. So let me rephrase that: Once a Virgo falls in love, its hard for us to let go.....lol....
but it's not like we are stalkers or anything close to it. We would keep it all inside.
Oh dont get me wrong. It's very rare for me too. It's been 4 years since I've felt this way about a guy. And I think that's what everybody on here doesnt realize. So I know that "lightning bolt" that your talking about. So let me rephrase that: Once a Virgo falls in love, its hard for us to let go.....lol....
but it's not like we are stalkers or anything close to it. We would keep it all inside.
"which is why...when your gut tells you something is wrong...it usually is. you do not need a talk to know a man is not interested...the hairs on the back of your neck, the knot in your tummy fearing the rejection already told you the answer."
Ok, I can understand this. (And I know what I am about to say doesnt change the fact of whether this guy cares about me or not...) but...part of the reasons that I am fearing rejection is because of the lack of definition. In my head I tell myself "if he felt this way then he would do this/that and "we" should be labled as this/that" It's the Virgo in me. Things have to have a definition or they dont make sense to me. Am I making sense?
Ok, I can understand this. (And I know what I am about to say doesnt change the fact of whether this guy cares about me or not...) but...part of the reasons that I am fearing rejection is because of the lack of definition. In my head I tell myself "if he felt this way then he would do this/that and "we" should be labled as this/that" It's the Virgo in me. Things have to have a definition or they dont make sense to me. Am I making sense?
"ok must take off. we are doing karaoke. hehehe. actually the cancer and our virgo friend plan on it. me and our aries friend totally plan on watching. role reversal!! LOL."
Have fun! and thanks for giving me such an eduational lesson.
Have fun! and thanks for giving me such an eduational lesson.
"I say never yes to sex today if I know I will regret tomarrow.
Whatever the reason or reasoning."
How do you know that, likeBrad?
And second ... there are no regrets unless you look at them for their negative input, instead of positive growth.
Whatever the reason or reasoning."
How do you know that, likeBrad?
And second ... there are no regrets unless you look at them for their negative input, instead of positive growth.
likeBrad---
So what is your opinion? Are you saying that sex should come after the emotional attachment or not?
So what is your opinion? Are you saying that sex should come after the emotional attachment or not?
"And second ... there are no regrets unless you look at them for their negative input, instead of positive growth."
Are you saying focus on the positive and you'll always be satisfied? Or choose to focus on the negative and you'll never be happy?
Are you saying focus on the positive and you'll always be satisfied? Or choose to focus on the negative and you'll never be happy?
I mean .. why regret something simply because it didn't work out?
Many things don't pan out that we try in life ... it's what we do with the information .. we can close ourselves off because we regret that we even tried, or we can be open to what could be seen as a gain.
Personally .. I don't see how an ex-relationship could possibly been seen as a regret. Every person has something valuable to bring to us. Do we see it? Do we embrace that every person is different, therefore even the same situation is unique because it was shared by a different person? Or, do we say it was a waste because we expected each person to live within a preconcieved idea of what we wanted it to be, based off of our own standards or ones from a prior relationship?
The same scene could be painted a thousand times ... but, if each artist is different .. then each of those same paintings have a different meaning because it came from a personal expression.
Many things don't pan out that we try in life ... it's what we do with the information .. we can close ourselves off because we regret that we even tried, or we can be open to what could be seen as a gain.
Personally .. I don't see how an ex-relationship could possibly been seen as a regret. Every person has something valuable to bring to us. Do we see it? Do we embrace that every person is different, therefore even the same situation is unique because it was shared by a different person? Or, do we say it was a waste because we expected each person to live within a preconcieved idea of what we wanted it to be, based off of our own standards or ones from a prior relationship?
The same scene could be painted a thousand times ... but, if each artist is different .. then each of those same paintings have a different meaning because it came from a personal expression.
"Have you discovered something new? did you break through a plateau? I'm curious about this because I've heard stories and know some older married couples who just stop having sex altogether. I just wonder the cause."
Unsure, virgolibra .. I know that there is a place in me that is not happy with my marriage, and though I've thought for a long time that it was because of not having emotional support .. yet, since he's still here eventhough he doesn't get laid .. I can now see that I've been in error .. therefore, I have to re-evaluate my assessment of the meaning, "emotional support".
Unsure, virgolibra .. I know that there is a place in me that is not happy with my marriage, and though I've thought for a long time that it was because of not having emotional support .. yet, since he's still here eventhough he doesn't get laid .. I can now see that I've been in error .. therefore, I have to re-evaluate my assessment of the meaning, "emotional support".
"I can now see that I've been in error .. therefore, I have to re-evaluate my assessment of the meaning, "emotional support".
Either that or your assessment of the meaning of "unconditional love"
just a thought.....
Either that or your assessment of the meaning of "unconditional love"
just a thought.....
Maybe that's exactly what it is, Southern .. since I don't believe in unconditional love. Maybe there is such a thing, and I can't understand how a person could live with this concept.
"Maybe that's exactly what it is, Southern .. since I don't believe in unconditional love. Maybe there is such a thing, and I can't understand how a person could live with this concept."
P-Angel.....unconditional love is very real. You have to first be willing to explore this concept before you can even begin to wrap your mind around it. Unconditional love is total acceptance of a person's good AND bad. You must have some idea of this concept if you were willing to marry this man. And I can tell you right now, if this Virgo man married you, then he loves you unconditionally. That's the only way that we Virgo's know how to love. So you not having sex with him, he may not like it, but guess what? He still loves you.
The reason I suggested doing the list is because we as women have emotional expectations and needs. And we place a heavy burden on men to fullfil these things for us. When in actuality, "some" of these needs can be and ARE fulfilled by other means and by other people. You have to first know whether or not you are happy as a person. And if you are not personally happy as a person....and as a woman....then your husband has nothing to do with that. You gotta get back in touch with what made you happy before you even met him and before you even had him in your life.
This is personal for me but I'll share part my list with you:
I need---------------Who can realistically--------------HOW can this need be fulfilled?
fulfill this need?
Peace-----------------me------------------------------acknowledge what I can &can not
control. Continue MY hobbies
food/shelter----------me------------------------------take my butt to work
affection-------------my man--------------------------allow this to come naturally when
he & I are both ready for it.
Intimacy-------------my man---------------------------same as above
feel wanted----------me/him----------------------------consistent communication
feel attractive------me-------------------------------think attractive/feel attractive
eat right/ exercise
emotional security-----me------------------------------maintain friendships with family &
friends. A man can not do this for
me BY HIMSELF
P-Angel.....unconditional love is very real. You have to first be willing to explore this concept before you can even begin to wrap your mind around it. Unconditional love is total acceptance of a person's good AND bad. You must have some idea of this concept if you were willing to marry this man. And I can tell you right now, if this Virgo man married you, then he loves you unconditionally. That's the only way that we Virgo's know how to love. So you not having sex with him, he may not like it, but guess what? He still loves you. The reason I suggested doing the list is because we as women have emotional expectations and needs. And we place a heavy burden on men to fullfil these things for us. When in actuality, "some" of these needs can be and ARE fulfilled by other means and by other people. You have to first know whether or not you are happy as a person. And if you are not personally happy as a person....and as a woman....then your husband has nothing to do with that. You gotta get back in touch with what made you happy before you even met him and before you even had him in your life.
This is personal for me but I'll share part my list with you:
I need---------------Who can realistically--------------HOW can this need be fulfilled?
fulfill this need?
Peace-----------------me------------------------------acknowledge what I can &can not
control. Continue MY hobbies
food/shelter----------me------------------------------take my butt to work
affection-------------my man--------------------------allow this to come naturally when
he & I are both ready for it.
Intimacy-------------my man---------------------------same as above
feel wanted----------me/him----------------------------consistent communication
feel attractive------me-------------------------------think attractive/feel attractive
eat right/ exercise
emotional security-----me------------------------------maintain friendships with family &
friends. A man can not do this for
me BY HIMSELF
your wants and needs will be different from mine of course. But essentially, you get the idea..... Hope this helps.
Thanks for giving me some insight into how you process your life-decisions, Southern .. however, unconditional love seems too illogical for my path that drives me. I find this very curious for a Virgo who is King (Queen) of logic.
However, I'll attempt to wrap myself around this concept and analyze to see if this is where the issue lies.
Seems odd .. the Virgo would believe in unconditional anything .. while a Pisces would not be able to find the logic in the condition, lol
Life is so funny sometimes No wonder we can't figure things out !!
However, I'll attempt to wrap myself around this concept and analyze to see if this is where the issue lies.
Seems odd .. the Virgo would believe in unconditional anything .. while a Pisces would not be able to find the logic in the condition, lol
Life is so funny sometimes
No wonder we can't figure things out !!Now of course unconditional love is not about accepting abuse of any kind or addictions. That's entirely different.
But, that discounts being unconditional, doesn't it?
My mind doesn't even think that ... I could probably accept that. What sends flags in my head is being a martyr. To accept another persons flaws, or short-comings would be elementary to me .. what I couldn't handle would be a person sacrificing their own personal standards and values.
What's a value for then? Why even have morals, or codes of ethics if you don't stand for them?
This is where I fail with "unconditional" love.
My mind doesn't even think that ... I could probably accept that. What sends flags in my head is being a martyr. To accept another persons flaws, or short-comings would be elementary to me .. what I couldn't handle would be a person sacrificing their own personal standards and values.
What's a value for then? Why even have morals, or codes of ethics if you don't stand for them?
This is where I fail with "unconditional" love.
"But, that discounts being unconditional, doesn't it?"
That depends on YOUR definition. Accepting abuse and supporting addictions, that's different. To me, accepting a person in those conditions is being a crutch for that person and that is way too emotionally draining. Unconditional love to me is getting that person into a program or support group and supporting and loving them throughout that process and being there for them in the end. (just an example)
"What sends flags in my head is being a martyr. To accept another persons flaws, or short-comings would be elementary to me .. what I couldn't handle would be a person sacrificing their own personal standards and values."
What you are saying is that you dont have respect for a martyr. My question is this: Is it the "victims" problem to recognize and get out? Yes. But in a marriage, its not fair to "purposely" put somebody in the posistion of being a martyr when a marriage vow is forever and till death do you part. A person shouldnt "purposely" put their spouse in a situation like that and then try to turn around and say "look at you. You would rather be a victim than leave me. You are so weak". That is a form of mental/psychological abuse. If one person wants out of the marriage, then that person needs to leave. (be it the husband or the wife) NOT sit up and create circumstances in an attempt to a make a person leave and then try to say that they are loosing respect for that person for not leaving. When in actuality, that person is not leaving because that person made a vow and is willing to work through the differences. Major difference.
That depends on YOUR definition. Accepting abuse and supporting addictions, that's different. To me, accepting a person in those conditions is being a crutch for that person and that is way too emotionally draining. Unconditional love to me is getting that person into a program or support group and supporting and loving them throughout that process and being there for them in the end. (just an example)
"What sends flags in my head is being a martyr. To accept another persons flaws, or short-comings would be elementary to me .. what I couldn't handle would be a person sacrificing their own personal standards and values."
What you are saying is that you dont have respect for a martyr. My question is this: Is it the "victims" problem to recognize and get out? Yes. But in a marriage, its not fair to "purposely" put somebody in the posistion of being a martyr when a marriage vow is forever and till death do you part. A person shouldnt "purposely" put their spouse in a situation like that and then try to turn around and say "look at you. You would rather be a victim than leave me. You are so weak". That is a form of mental/psychological abuse. If one person wants out of the marriage, then that person needs to leave. (be it the husband or the wife) NOT sit up and create circumstances in an attempt to a make a person leave and then try to say that they are loosing respect for that person for not leaving. When in actuality, that person is not leaving because that person made a vow and is willing to work through the differences. Major difference.
You dont believe in unconditional love and you dont want to give it. Therefore, you dont believe that you should receive it either. Wow.....
There are three different types of sex.
Sex, with someone who you are attracted to and is curious about. (might only happen once)
Sex, with a person who you both ejoy having sex with, but either aren't ready for a relationship or don't know yet if you want one together(FWB)
Making love and receiving the same from a person you are committed to and love.
Sex, with someone who you are attracted to and is curious about. (might only happen once)
Sex, with a person who you both ejoy having sex with, but either aren't ready for a relationship or don't know yet if you want one together(FWB)
Making love and receiving the same from a person you are committed to and love.
"But in a marriage, its not fair to "purposely" put somebody in the posistion of being a martyr when a marriage vow is forever and till death do you part. A person shouldnt "purposely" put their spouse in a situation like that and then try to turn around and say "look at you."
First of all .. I don't believe in anything being forever until death parts me, not even in life .. rather, it's a passage to another existence. So, I definitely don't believe in marriage being "forever".
However, the rest of what you said .. I agree with.
First of all .. I don't believe in anything being forever until death parts me, not even in life .. rather, it's a passage to another existence. So, I definitely don't believe in marriage being "forever".
However, the rest of what you said .. I agree with.
"You dont believe in unconditional love and you dont want to give it. Therefore, you dont believe that you should receive it either."
That would be an accurate statement ... however, it's not that I believe that I shouldn't recieve it .. I believe the other person shouldn't give it, so, I therefore wouldn't want it.
This is a set-up from my perspective ... a person sets themselves up for failure because they have expectations. Though, this word, "unconditional" may appear as though it's not an expectation, it actually is ... for, a person with this mind-set believes that because they give unconditionally, then when it's not recieved back, then they feel betrayed, forsaken, abandoned. Nothing is given unconditionally, even this love.
For you would expect the condition of it given back to you.
That would be an accurate statement ... however, it's not that I believe that I shouldn't recieve it .. I believe the other person shouldn't give it, so, I therefore wouldn't want it.
This is a set-up from my perspective ... a person sets themselves up for failure because they have expectations. Though, this word, "unconditional" may appear as though it's not an expectation, it actually is ... for, a person with this mind-set believes that because they give unconditionally, then when it's not recieved back, then they feel betrayed, forsaken, abandoned. Nothing is given unconditionally, even this love.
For you would expect the condition of it given back to you.
Completely illogical .. this condition .. it doesn't exist, from my perspective.
"First of all .. I don't believe in anything being forever until death parts me, not even in life .. rather, it's a passage to another existence. So, I definitely don't believe in marriage being "forever"."
Then that means that the two of you had a different idea about what love is and about what marriage is supposed to mean. There has been a disconnect from the very begining. I dont have the right to say that you're idea is wrong, but I will say that it does not mesh well with a Virgo at all.
"This is a set-up from my perspective ... a person sets themselves up for failure because they have expectations."
Ok, lets get to the core of this. Did you set yourself up for failure or do you think your husband did? Lets get to the real issue at hand.
Then that means that the two of you had a different idea about what love is and about what marriage is supposed to mean. There has been a disconnect from the very begining. I dont have the right to say that you're idea is wrong, but I will say that it does not mesh well with a Virgo at all.
"This is a set-up from my perspective ... a person sets themselves up for failure because they have expectations."
Ok, lets get to the core of this. Did you set yourself up for failure or do you think your husband did? Lets get to the real issue at hand.
"There are three different types of sex.
Sex, with someone who you are attracted to and is curious about. (might only happen once)
Sex, with a person who you both ejoy having sex with, but either aren't ready for a relationship or don't know yet if you want one together(FWB)
Making love and receiving the same from a person you are committed to and love."
And the only one that I can wrap my head around is #3. That's the best kind of sex.
Sex, with someone who you are attracted to and is curious about. (might only happen once)
Sex, with a person who you both ejoy having sex with, but either aren't ready for a relationship or don't know yet if you want one together(FWB)
Making love and receiving the same from a person you are committed to and love."
And the only one that I can wrap my head around is #3. That's the best kind of sex.
"Completely illogical .. this condition .. it doesn't exist, from my perspective."
If it doesnt exist from your perspective, then why bother to get married in the first place? Why not stay in the relationship until....until whenever.....? By saying that, in essence you are saying that you never had intentions on being married to the same person forever. Whatever we "think" in our minds is what we will put into action one day.
If it doesnt exist from your perspective, then why bother to get married in the first place? Why not stay in the relationship until....until whenever.....? By saying that, in essence you are saying that you never had intentions on being married to the same person forever. Whatever we "think" in our minds is what we will put into action one day.
ST, number 3 is definitely the best, but two people have to be at that stage for it to exist...
"Ok, lets get to the core of this. Did you set yourself up for failure or do you think your husband did? Lets get to the real issue at hand."
lol, Southern ... I don't believe that past relationships are failures, so this concept escapes me. There's no regrets. So, if it ended tomorrow .. I wouldn't have a failure in my life, rather, an experience that came to an end.
"Then that means that the two of you had a different idea about what love is and about what marriage is supposed to mean. There has been a disconnect from the very begining."
No, that wouldn't be correct. We both had prior marriages and serious relationships .. so we both know that marriage is a commitment, however, it only lasts as long as it lasts .. and this is how we entered into it. In fact, we married for convenience within a situation in the first place and not from being "in love" .. love was gained later through respect. To say it has been disconnected from the beginning would be a huge stretch, since we've been married for 25 years, harmoniously.
When I say I'm unhappy, which directly effects him .. doesn't mean we have a bad relationship, Southern .. we get on quite nicely and are compatible most of the time. Certainly, everybody has ups and downs, so nobody gets along perfectly .. however, unhappiness doesn't have to be dramatic and effect every minute of a relationship.
"By saying that, in essence you are saying that you never had intentions on being married to the same person forever."
That would be correct ... that's an expectation. I don't live that way. Two people give what is capable of giving, without an expectation of more ... if it's one day, or a hundred years.
This isn't the same as a young love, or an attraction ... this is a marriage of 25 years, so, we've progressed past all the insecurities, and adjustment period of getting to know each other.
lol, Southern ... I don't believe that past relationships are failures, so this concept escapes me. There's no regrets. So, if it ended tomorrow .. I wouldn't have a failure in my life, rather, an experience that came to an end.
"Then that means that the two of you had a different idea about what love is and about what marriage is supposed to mean. There has been a disconnect from the very begining."
No, that wouldn't be correct. We both had prior marriages and serious relationships .. so we both know that marriage is a commitment, however, it only lasts as long as it lasts .. and this is how we entered into it. In fact, we married for convenience within a situation in the first place and not from being "in love" .. love was gained later through respect. To say it has been disconnected from the beginning would be a huge stretch, since we've been married for 25 years, harmoniously.
When I say I'm unhappy, which directly effects him .. doesn't mean we have a bad relationship, Southern .. we get on quite nicely and are compatible most of the time. Certainly, everybody has ups and downs, so nobody gets along perfectly .. however, unhappiness doesn't have to be dramatic and effect every minute of a relationship.
"By saying that, in essence you are saying that you never had intentions on being married to the same person forever."
That would be correct ... that's an expectation. I don't live that way. Two people give what is capable of giving, without an expectation of more ... if it's one day, or a hundred years.
This isn't the same as a young love, or an attraction ... this is a marriage of 25 years, so, we've progressed past all the insecurities, and adjustment period of getting to know each other.
"ST, number 3 is definitely the best, but two people have to be at that stage for it to exist..."
yeah and poor girl over here is simply trying to figure out how to get there.
yeah and poor girl over here is simply trying to figure out how to get there.
Things just end ..
He's holding on, for whatever reason .. he needs more time, and I will wait. He's taken good care of me and doesn't deserve to be abandoned, however, I continue to get him to comprehend that it's done.
So, this is the reason for the celebacy .. it's not a punishment, though perhaps, I made it sound that way .. it's more about getting him to realize that it's finished.
He's holding on, for whatever reason .. he needs more time, and I will wait. He's taken good care of me and doesn't deserve to be abandoned, however, I continue to get him to comprehend that it's done.
So, this is the reason for the celebacy .. it's not a punishment, though perhaps, I made it sound that way .. it's more about getting him to realize that it's finished.
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