Walking on Egg Shells around my Scorpio Friend..!
I have a good friend who is engaged to my other good friend, who is a scorpio male. He and I have always gotten along gr...
This topic was created in the Scorpio forum by a muse a libra on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 and has 75 replies.
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How is wanting fairness and an equal opportunity to play a sport a "female sensibility" or "gay?"
Because men don't have that issue. And, what I said was that a muse a libra should go play with like-minded individuals and leave this team alone. Why? Because this team doesn't want her there. As a cheerleader, perhaps.
She has just as much right to play volleyball, so, she should. She should go elsewhere, then, so she can play.
But to tell someone they're wrong or to berate them just because they want an equal opportunity to play at something
You don't know what you're talking about, because you don't know what I'm talking about. I didn't say a muse a libra is "gay" for any reason. It is an expression I used that, in my opinion, if these men bend to this "girls just want to have fun" attitude instead of playing to win - it's GAY...!
Because men don't have that issue. And, what I said was that a muse a libra should go play with like-minded individuals and leave this team alone. Why? Because this team doesn't want her there. As a cheerleader, perhaps.
She has just as much right to play volleyball, so, she should. She should go elsewhere, then, so she can play.
But to tell someone they're wrong or to berate them just because they want an equal opportunity to play at something
You don't know what you're talking about, because you don't know what I'm talking about. I didn't say a muse a libra is "gay" for any reason. It is an expression I used that, in my opinion, if these men bend to this "girls just want to have fun" attitude instead of playing to win - it's GAY...!
Since when do "girls only just want to have fun??" and who says a woman or the women on that team aren't playing to win anymore than the guys are just because they're women??
a muse a libra spoke that for herself on this thread. It's not as important to her as it is to them.
Do YOU only play something to have fun because YOU'RE a female??
Yes.
Or do you ever play to win too??
Just for fun, and win, sure. Otherwise, I understand how the rules apply - the strongest and the fittest. So, if I can't hang, I sit my ass down or stay in my league.
a muse a libra spoke that for herself on this thread. It's not as important to her as it is to them.
Do YOU only play something to have fun because YOU'RE a female??
Yes.
Or do you ever play to win too??
Just for fun, and win, sure. Otherwise, I understand how the rules apply - the strongest and the fittest. So, if I can't hang, I sit my ass down or stay in my league.
Since when do "girls only just want to have fun??" and who says a woman or the women on that team aren't playing to win anymore than the guys are just because they're women??
You're ASSUMING that and taking a very chauvenistic attitude that you don't even realize you're taking.
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a muse a libra 4/30/2008 4:57:22 PM | ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
I personally feel that the volleyball is and should be for fun, and winning is fun, but not necessary.
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a muse a libra 4/30/2008 5:17:23 PM | ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
It's complicated to try to leave, and it's less about the volleyball and more about having a good time with my friends.
You're ASSUMING that and taking a very chauvenistic attitude that you don't even realize you're taking.
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a muse a libra 4/30/2008 4:57:22 PM | ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
I personally feel that the volleyball is and should be for fun, and winning is fun, but not necessary.
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a muse a libra 4/30/2008 5:17:23 PM | ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
It's complicated to try to leave, and it's less about the volleyball and more about having a good time with my friends.
Thanks, P-Angel.
A competitive sport is just that .. people who are on the team and are in it to WIN want people on their team who have a desire for victory.
If her attitude doesn't care about winning, then her game-play won't care about winning. If she screws up, she'll just laugh and say, oh well we're just having fun. And though this is acceptable from her perspective .. it is not so from the others pov, if the other players want somebody who has the determination to win the game.
It's all attitude ... with this, and her resentment and whining ... her problem is apparantly attitude, for she doesn't even have it to win the match, while getting pissed off because there are people out there who love the challenge and victory in a competitive sport.
This whole problem sounds more and more like it's exclusively just her and expectations of how other people in her life are suppose to regard situations in the same light as her. If the boys want to be boys and get out there and compete in a competitive sport for victory, while there's a woman stomping her feet and whining because she doesn't have the right attitude to be a challenge .... then I see this as her being a pain in the ass to the people who actually want to play to win.
If her attitude doesn't care about winning, then her game-play won't care about winning. If she screws up, she'll just laugh and say, oh well we're just having fun. And though this is acceptable from her perspective .. it is not so from the others pov, if the other players want somebody who has the determination to win the game.
It's all attitude ... with this, and her resentment and whining ... her problem is apparantly attitude, for she doesn't even have it to win the match, while getting pissed off because there are people out there who love the challenge and victory in a competitive sport.
This whole problem sounds more and more like it's exclusively just her and expectations of how other people in her life are suppose to regard situations in the same light as her. If the boys want to be boys and get out there and compete in a competitive sport for victory, while there's a woman stomping her feet and whining because she doesn't have the right attitude to be a challenge .... then I see this as her being a pain in the ass to the people who actually want to play to win.
"It is a fun time, but lately has been getting so competetive that weaker players are being skipped over for games. I am one of them, and have been upset about it."
"I don't care that I'm not always picked, but when my name is next on the board, I feel it is only fair that I'm allowed to play."
This all seems to be built around why this isn't fair to the weaker player in not being able to play when it's recognized in the first quote that the game is becoming very competitive.
Let's talk about fair .. isn't that something that should be extended both directions, and not just used for one-sided justification because feelings of inferiority have been experienced?
If I were this woman, and I was a weak player in a competitive sport, then it would be very unfair of ME to force the guys into allowing me to play, when they want to win ... because my presence in the match would put them at a disadvantage.
Unfair can be viewed as her being unfair to the people who are taking it seriously by attempting to force them.
"I don't care that I'm not always picked, but when my name is next on the board, I feel it is only fair that I'm allowed to play."
This all seems to be built around why this isn't fair to the weaker player in not being able to play when it's recognized in the first quote that the game is becoming very competitive.
Let's talk about fair .. isn't that something that should be extended both directions, and not just used for one-sided justification because feelings of inferiority have been experienced?
If I were this woman, and I was a weak player in a competitive sport, then it would be very unfair of ME to force the guys into allowing me to play, when they want to win ... because my presence in the match would put them at a disadvantage.
Unfair can be viewed as her being unfair to the people who are taking it seriously by attempting to force them.
FA:
Welcome to the confusing reality of being a libra. I do flit between many choices and paths to take. It is difficult for me to decide what to do, and when there are opposing viewpoints, I like to consider them all. I haven't decided the best method yet, but the discourse we all are having is incredible, and in the end, it will likely be a mixture of what everybody has suggested, heavy on your advice, but a bit of something from everyone. In the end, I am usually quite diplomatic about things such as this, but it is extremely important to me to understand other perspectives, to believe that there are several means to an end, and that there is a BEST means.
Some mixture of the "what's your problem" and providing him with the information I have and believe will be my path, and until the dreaded moment of confrontation comes, I will be nervous, I will flit. But after much contemplation, IN THE MOMENT, I will do the best I can...it's strange, but it's the way I work for now.
Welcome to the confusing reality of being a libra. I do flit between many choices and paths to take. It is difficult for me to decide what to do, and when there are opposing viewpoints, I like to consider them all. I haven't decided the best method yet, but the discourse we all are having is incredible, and in the end, it will likely be a mixture of what everybody has suggested, heavy on your advice, but a bit of something from everyone. In the end, I am usually quite diplomatic about things such as this, but it is extremely important to me to understand other perspectives, to believe that there are several means to an end, and that there is a BEST means.
Some mixture of the "what's your problem" and providing him with the information I have and believe will be my path, and until the dreaded moment of confrontation comes, I will be nervous, I will flit. But after much contemplation, IN THE MOMENT, I will do the best I can...it's strange, but it's the way I work for now.
when a person comments contrary to a narrow reality in which only revolves around you being the center .. this won't make sense to you because you believe people should just take what you say at face value, completely disregarding that we know the voice of the other party isn't here, yet, we should just lay a guilty verdict on him anyway, unfairly.
PAngel, despite my contradictions, I don't believe either party is guilty, a victim, or wrong/right. This is a complicated mixture of emotion and has been a long time coming. I don't believe I am the "center" of this issue, I can see how it sounds that way, because you ARE only hearing my side. I don't wish to invite him into this forum...it's not necessary for me...and I don't believe it is necessary for anyone else to formulate some understanding of what is happening.
I never doubted you are intelligent, it is apparent to me. But you misunderstand the situation, likely because I haven't been as clear as possible. He hasn't turned coat, and neither have I. No one is walking away from this friendship, nobody genuinely wants to. I don't feel like a victim, I feel angry that I am being misrepresented by him, that I am being told what to do and when in a situation where rules aren't really a HUGE factor. I don't know how to explain it to you...you don't attend our weekends, you don't understand the atmosphere. It is for FUN, and due to his attitude toward me, I haven't been having fun. I have tried to speak to him on the matter, as I've already said. I've already compromised, to no avail. I am still frustrating him. He is now frustrating me...
As for resentment...I am angry. I am indignant that I am accused unfairly of being a "whiner." I don't see how that is detrimental to our friendship...really. He is resentful of me, for some reason of which I am mystified. That is not my fault, I haven't been told the reason is feels the way he does, I've only seen the reaction. I haven't acted out in any way, and it certainly is not my intention to frustrate him. I believe the resentment will eventually ruin the friendship, but I am here, on this board, for perspective (and i do appreciate yours...even if I take exception to a lot of it). I am perfectly capable of letting resentment go, but yes, I do feel I deserve some sort of compromise from him. And to be perfectly clear, I am perfectly happy and willing to provide compromise on my end...I am not as self-centered or idignant as you interpret.
PAngel, despite my contradictions, I don't believe either party is guilty, a victim, or wrong/right. This is a complicated mixture of emotion and has been a long time coming. I don't believe I am the "center" of this issue, I can see how it sounds that way, because you ARE only hearing my side. I don't wish to invite him into this forum...it's not necessary for me...and I don't believe it is necessary for anyone else to formulate some understanding of what is happening.
I never doubted you are intelligent, it is apparent to me. But you misunderstand the situation, likely because I haven't been as clear as possible. He hasn't turned coat, and neither have I. No one is walking away from this friendship, nobody genuinely wants to. I don't feel like a victim, I feel angry that I am being misrepresented by him, that I am being told what to do and when in a situation where rules aren't really a HUGE factor. I don't know how to explain it to you...you don't attend our weekends, you don't understand the atmosphere. It is for FUN, and due to his attitude toward me, I haven't been having fun. I have tried to speak to him on the matter, as I've already said. I've already compromised, to no avail. I am still frustrating him. He is now frustrating me...
As for resentment...I am angry. I am indignant that I am accused unfairly of being a "whiner." I don't see how that is detrimental to our friendship...really. He is resentful of me, for some reason of which I am mystified. That is not my fault, I haven't been told the reason is feels the way he does, I've only seen the reaction. I haven't acted out in any way, and it certainly is not my intention to frustrate him. I believe the resentment will eventually ruin the friendship, but I am here, on this board, for perspective (and i do appreciate yours...even if I take exception to a lot of it). I am perfectly capable of letting resentment go, but yes, I do feel I deserve some sort of compromise from him. And to be perfectly clear, I am perfectly happy and willing to provide compromise on my end...I am not as self-centered or idignant as you interpret.
the truth to you .... you want this all centered around you being a victim and that IS irresponsible as a friend.
the truth is fuzzy PAngel. I don't know all the answers and never admitted to. I am not a victim. I am angered, and am entitled to it...
the truth is fuzzy PAngel. I don't know all the answers and never admitted to. I am not a victim. I am angered, and am entitled to it...
Ocean:
These are my friends! I want some consideration, not for them to put my "femaie sensibilites" ahead of competition. The last thing I want to do is leave and find a new group to play with. Here is a childish thing to say, but:
I want to play with my friends! I want to have fun, and I want EVERYONE to have fun. I don't like the discomfort, and want to rectify it like adults. Leaving feels childish to me...AND I care about this person...it is important to me that he feel comfortable around me, but my comfort needs consideration, too. If that is female sensibility, is that really so much to ask?
Part of me feels I am expecting a lot, but deep down, I feel I am just expecting to be treated like everybody else.
These are my friends! I want some consideration, not for them to put my "femaie sensibilites" ahead of competition. The last thing I want to do is leave and find a new group to play with. Here is a childish thing to say, but:
I want to play with my friends! I want to have fun, and I want EVERYONE to have fun. I don't like the discomfort, and want to rectify it like adults. Leaving feels childish to me...AND I care about this person...it is important to me that he feel comfortable around me, but my comfort needs consideration, too. If that is female sensibility, is that really so much to ask?
Part of me feels I am expecting a lot, but deep down, I feel I am just expecting to be treated like everybody else.
^^^ he must be some pretty special friend to write all this about him. He obviously gets to you. I mean REALLY...I wouldnt give this much analysis to a simple friendship.
You either stand up for yourself and tell him how you feel or suffer. I mean WTF is with this fear of confronting a "SCORPIO"? For crying out loud...he'll respect you for whooping his ass if you need to.
I dont get it. Maybe it's because I'm not a libra.
You either stand up for yourself and tell him how you feel or suffer. I mean WTF is with this fear of confronting a "SCORPIO"? For crying out loud...he'll respect you for whooping his ass if you need to.
I dont get it. Maybe it's because I'm not a libra.
be unobtrusive and hide yourself in the mass of other friends."
LikeBrad:
Not going to happen. I am can't be unobtrusive if I feel I am being treated unfairly. If I hide, I will resent. If I resent, I will be obtrusive...no win situation.
LikeBrad:
Not going to happen. I am can't be unobtrusive if I feel I am being treated unfairly. If I hide, I will resent. If I resent, I will be obtrusive...no win situation.
I am a libra/libra rising
taurus moon
5 other planets in libra.
taurus moon
5 other planets in libra.
f you carry an attitude of resentment, then your disposition will display this. There will be an expectation within you, for him to respond to your "talk" with him because you are anticipating/expecting a certain response from him to be formulated according to him having an understanding of your resentment towards him for his deed.
I will not go with resentment to him. I wouldn't post here I was just going to walk up to him and demand things of him. I don't know what to expect...that is why I am here...I have a feeling our conversation will be much less confrontational the one we are having PAngel.
I am confused what you think my intentions are here? Please let me know...the only intent I feel I have is to mend this, fairly, between the two of us so we are both happy and comfortable.
I will not go with resentment to him. I wouldn't post here I was just going to walk up to him and demand things of him. I don't know what to expect...that is why I am here...I have a feeling our conversation will be much less confrontational the one we are having PAngel.
I am confused what you think my intentions are here? Please let me know...the only intent I feel I have is to mend this, fairly, between the two of us so we are both happy and comfortable.
"I don't know what to expect...that is why I am here...I have a feeling our conversation will be much less confrontational the one we are having PAngel."
There's only one way to get your point across to a scorpio. Give it to him straight up - preferably without a twist.
They may be vague when it comes to expressing their own feelings but you just need to tell it to 'em like it is.
God, where can I find this guy...I'd be happy to confront him for you...if only to help you stop with this insane "how should I tell him?" thing of yours
There's only one way to get your point across to a scorpio. Give it to him straight up - preferably without a twist.
They may be vague when it comes to expressing their own feelings but you just need to tell it to 'em like it is.
God, where can I find this guy...I'd be happy to confront him for you...if only to help you stop with this insane "how should I tell him?" thing of yours
If her attitude doesn't care about winning, then her game-play won't care about winning. If she screws up, she'll just laugh and say, oh well we're just having fun. And though this is acceptable from her perspective .. it is not so from the others pov, if the other players want somebody who has the determination to win the game.
When I have been allowed to play, fairly, my team is quite often the team that remains on the court all day, undefeated. I am neither a huge asset to any team, nor am I a guaranteed loss. It isn't about winning and losing to me, it is to them. Their attitude is unfair because I am not detrimental, and have often been on the winning team...
When I have been allowed to play, fairly, my team is quite often the team that remains on the court all day, undefeated. I am neither a huge asset to any team, nor am I a guaranteed loss. It isn't about winning and losing to me, it is to them. Their attitude is unfair because I am not detrimental, and have often been on the winning team...
This whole problem sounds more and more like it's exclusively just her and expectations of how other people in her life are suppose to regard situations in the same light as her.
I think this is a fair assumption, P Angel. I see this from a distance, and have experienced difficulty in my life due this before. I think we all have, right? It can't just be exclusive to me...and very likely, it is coming from his end as well. I am doing my best to stay balanced...
but hey! don't call me a pain in the ass or a whiner!!! not nice or fair.
I think this is a fair assumption, P Angel. I see this from a distance, and have experienced difficulty in my life due this before. I think we all have, right? It can't just be exclusive to me...and very likely, it is coming from his end as well. I am doing my best to stay balanced...
but hey! don't call me a pain in the ass or a whiner!!! not nice or fair.
unfair of ME to force the guys into allowing me to play,
LET ME BLE CLEAR: THIS IS NOT A LEAGUE. It is and always has been a group of friends who get together for a game of volleyball. I am not forcing anyone...the rules are and always have been: EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO GETS TO PLAY.
Straight on that issue? Okay, let it go.
LET ME BLE CLEAR: THIS IS NOT A LEAGUE. It is and always has been a group of friends who get together for a game of volleyball. I am not forcing anyone...the rules are and always have been: EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO GETS TO PLAY.
Straight on that issue? Okay, let it go.
Newbie,
LOLLOLLL...
seriously, I never expected this many responses when I posted this. I sound way more obsessive about than I am because now I'm having to answer to several people about this. It's okay...it's getting me in shape to talk to him, which will be MUCH easier than trying to talk it out on here.
And, to be honest, he is a very good friend. His fiance is a very very good friend. I love the 2 of them more than I can say. They are such a blessing in so many ways in my life, it is very important to me that I don't rock the boat...They are the family I have, the people I know will be there for me in thick and thin, and I want to protect that and keep it healthy because the thought of losing it, is honestly, pretty terrifying to me.
But...hehe, I won't be put in my place just because he thinks I should be there. My respect for him hasn't wavered, but I won't allow him to call all the shots and rule my world just because he thinks he should or can....resentment? anger? you bet...but I can go to him, using my head and not my emotions and reach some level of understanding with him
BTW: PAngel.
I don't think I ever mentioned changing him. I think if he sees my perspective clearly (and I his) the matter will be better...a consideration for each others feelings. Is that change? Only if he isn't capable of it..
LOLLOLLL...
seriously, I never expected this many responses when I posted this. I sound way more obsessive about than I am because now I'm having to answer to several people about this. It's okay...it's getting me in shape to talk to him, which will be MUCH easier than trying to talk it out on here.
And, to be honest, he is a very good friend. His fiance is a very very good friend. I love the 2 of them more than I can say. They are such a blessing in so many ways in my life, it is very important to me that I don't rock the boat...They are the family I have, the people I know will be there for me in thick and thin, and I want to protect that and keep it healthy because the thought of losing it, is honestly, pretty terrifying to me.
But...hehe, I won't be put in my place just because he thinks I should be there. My respect for him hasn't wavered, but I won't allow him to call all the shots and rule my world just because he thinks he should or can....resentment? anger? you bet...but I can go to him, using my head and not my emotions and reach some level of understanding with him
BTW: PAngel.
I don't think I ever mentioned changing him. I think if he sees my perspective clearly (and I his) the matter will be better...a consideration for each others feelings. Is that change? Only if he isn't capable of it..
" .. and due to his attitude toward me, I haven't been having fun. I have tried to speak to him on the matter "
It's not up to him to provide fun and entertainment for you ..
It's not up to him to give you anything to suit your emotions, it's not up anybody else besides yourself to suit your emotions for you ..
.. it's up to you ..
You have stopped having fun because the sport has turned too competitive for you to continue participating. For him to represent you in a light that shows you're a weak player (which you admitted to in your original post) .. then this is NOT a mis-representation ..
.. you ARE a weaker player compared to the boys ..
So, it all boils down to you are not having fun any longer, so now your mission is to confront him on it with a talk (another talk actually because you said you have spoken to him about it already)
.. as if it is his responsibility to provide your entertainment for you.
You want to know WHY he's frustrated with you?
It's because you are high-maintenance .... any and all people are high-maintenance when they expect other people to cater to thier emotions.
"It isn't about winning and losing to me, it is to them."
You type this out .. and what it means just flies over your head. You can only see "that" it has taken place, and not "what" it means.
If a sports player is awesome at his talent, but, has a bad attitude about winning, and victory .. then this player will sit the bench everytime. Winning is about attitude, drive, perseverance, a desire to be the best you can be.
To you, this is just about having fun, and you aren't having fun any longer because the boys have gotten "better" players on the field, so have now gotten hyped-up and motivated to be more competitive. In this mind-set they now have .. they don't want people who don't have the heart in it to WIN, WIN, WIN .. on the field.
And this makes you unhappy because it's not fun for you.
Perhaps, it's fun for them.
Does that matter to you? At all?
Or, is it more important for YOU to have fun?
In your position, I'd be delighted watching the boys out there being boys, and embrace the way they are bonding with each other.
You type this out .. and what it means just flies over your head. You can only see "that" it has taken place, and not "what" it means.
If a sports player is awesome at his talent, but, has a bad attitude about winning, and victory .. then this player will sit the bench everytime. Winning is about attitude, drive, perseverance, a desire to be the best you can be.
To you, this is just about having fun, and you aren't having fun any longer because the boys have gotten "better" players on the field, so have now gotten hyped-up and motivated to be more competitive. In this mind-set they now have .. they don't want people who don't have the heart in it to WIN, WIN, WIN .. on the field.
And this makes you unhappy because it's not fun for you.
Perhaps, it's fun for them.
Does that matter to you? At all?
Or, is it more important for YOU to have fun?
In your position, I'd be delighted watching the boys out there being boys, and embrace the way they are bonding with each other.
It's not up to him to provide fun and entertainment for you ..
It's not up to him to give you anything to suit your emotions, it's not up anybody else besides yourself to suit your emotions for you ..
Certainly it is not up to anybody to make it fun for me and me alone. I don't believe that anything I've stated has said that. Did you read the part where I said that the rules are that everybody gets to play? That is not a rule I invented for myself, it is a standing rule.
I would have fun if allowed to play.
You must have missed the latest entry where I said that I am neither a winning player, nor a detriment. I have never lost a game on behalf of my team...and I say that with sincerity. You are driving me nuts, and judging me and my character.
I am very much aware that I responsible for myself, but friends...my friends (and it's gone both directions) have always been able to discuss when boundaries have been crossed and feelings have been hurt. I need no more advice...
He called. He apologized for treating me rudely at his home and said there is nothing to worry about, we are good. He said he loved me and handed the phone over to his fiance.
Thanks to all....
a whole lotta hoopla for a beautiful outcome. We'll have to see how V-Ball goes this weekend!
It's not up to him to give you anything to suit your emotions, it's not up anybody else besides yourself to suit your emotions for you ..
Certainly it is not up to anybody to make it fun for me and me alone. I don't believe that anything I've stated has said that. Did you read the part where I said that the rules are that everybody gets to play? That is not a rule I invented for myself, it is a standing rule.
I would have fun if allowed to play.
You must have missed the latest entry where I said that I am neither a winning player, nor a detriment. I have never lost a game on behalf of my team...and I say that with sincerity. You are driving me nuts, and judging me and my character.
I am very much aware that I responsible for myself, but friends...my friends (and it's gone both directions) have always been able to discuss when boundaries have been crossed and feelings have been hurt. I need no more advice...
He called. He apologized for treating me rudely at his home and said there is nothing to worry about, we are good. He said he loved me and handed the phone over to his fiance.
Thanks to all....
a whole lotta hoopla for a beautiful outcome. We'll have to see how V-Ball goes this weekend!
a beautiful outcome.
That's nice to hear.
That's nice to hear.
Finally an orgasm .. took fucking long enough
""There is ALWAYS 2 sides to a story.""
I thought there were 3.
I thought there were 3.
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Joined: Nov 25, 2007 · Topics: 68 · Posts: 447
Every pisces man i've met has had the same characteristics. I didn't date all these men (only one), the rest are just fr
@h8pisces
Joined: Apr 30, 2008 · Topics: 1 · Posts: 88