Virgo Men and Fidelity
This topic was created in the Virgo forum by wheelhomies on Thursday, August 10, 2006 and has 211 replies.
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I apologize in advance because I'm sure this topic has been addressed before, but I skimmed back a few pages and didn't really see anything about it (at least not from the titles). I haven't been paying much attention to the Virgo board until recently.
Well, I have heard that earth signs are the most physical ones...that they are most concerned with physical security, health..and that they tend to crave affection and the physical aspects of a relationship.
I am thinking that maybe this is the reason that the Virgo guys I know seem to have a lot of trouble remaining faithful to the women they are with. I can only think of one exception, but I don't think he's ever been given the opportunity to cheat, because his girlfriend is with him 24/7.
My question is, what does it take to make a Virgo stay faithful? Please don't say "give us all the sex we want," because, in that case, staying faithful seems pretty easy; I am referring to testing situations where one partner will be gone. Is there anything a woman could do/be so that you wouldn't cheat in a sitation like that?
Well, I have heard that earth signs are the most physical ones...that they are most concerned with physical security, health..and that they tend to crave affection and the physical aspects of a relationship.
I am thinking that maybe this is the reason that the Virgo guys I know seem to have a lot of trouble remaining faithful to the women they are with. I can only think of one exception, but I don't think he's ever been given the opportunity to cheat, because his girlfriend is with him 24/7.
My question is, what does it take to make a Virgo stay faithful? Please don't say "give us all the sex we want," because, in that case, staying faithful seems pretty easy; I am referring to testing situations where one partner will be gone. Is there anything a woman could do/be so that you wouldn't cheat in a sitation like that?
"Please don't say "give us all the sex we want,""
lol, that was funny.
I hear things like this all time, too, about Virgo's. Maybe it's just a male thing, and the sun sign doesn't matter, because all over these boards, women are saying the same thing about men of those signs.
It would be naive of me to say that my never has never cheated, so I won't. But, I can say that he has never forsaken me in the way I (a woman) needs to be loved. Women don't require the same as men . .
. . . so, to say "cheating", that would be in the definition. If my man gives me everything I need to feel like a woman, and to be loved to my very core . . then, goes out and bangs some stupid, bitch, whore that means nothing to him . . then, I don't know that I would consider that cheating.
First, the endearment and tenderness is still mine; and, second, I don't want to be treated like a nasty slut anyway . . so, what am I losing? What am I being cheated out of? His rough, viscous side, that doesn't care about anything except a nut?
No thank-you.
Now, if he left me to my sorrow when upset and in need of him, to go hold another woman and tell her how much she means to him . . . that's cheating, because that is the love I require. A woman could go a lifetime without sex, it's our emotions that have to be loved to feel complete.
As always, my thoughts are always logic based. I'm wondering if I'm really a Pisces.
lol, that was funny.
I hear things like this all time, too, about Virgo's. Maybe it's just a male thing, and the sun sign doesn't matter, because all over these boards, women are saying the same thing about men of those signs.
It would be naive of me to say that my never has never cheated, so I won't. But, I can say that he has never forsaken me in the way I (a woman) needs to be loved. Women don't require the same as men . .
. . . so, to say "cheating", that would be in the definition. If my man gives me everything I need to feel like a woman, and to be loved to my very core . . then, goes out and bangs some stupid, bitch, whore that means nothing to him . . then, I don't know that I would consider that cheating.
First, the endearment and tenderness is still mine; and, second, I don't want to be treated like a nasty slut anyway . . so, what am I losing? What am I being cheated out of? His rough, viscous side, that doesn't care about anything except a nut?
No thank-you.
Now, if he left me to my sorrow when upset and in need of him, to go hold another woman and tell her how much she means to him . . . that's cheating, because that is the love I require. A woman could go a lifetime without sex, it's our emotions that have to be loved to feel complete.
As always, my thoughts are always logic based. I'm wondering if I'm really a Pisces.
I'd like to think I won't cheat, but again, that's naive to say. Until I'm in a situation where I have to make the choice, I won't know for sure.
I can say this though, I have turned down sex, and it would have been with a woman who I would have loved to have slept with another time, but things are just not the way they used to be between her and I so I won't stoop down to her level just for a single night of fun. I didn't want to deal with the consequences of that, and no matter what anyone says, sex is never free.
As for loving more than one woman, I don't think that's possible, if you give 100% of your love to someone, then how can you give any love to someone else? When it comes to relationships, I give my all, everything I have is on the line, maybe that's why I'm so cautious when it comes to making it official with this Aries gal.
I did tell her I like being around her, and that I do in fact like her, but I made it clear that I wasn't ready for it to get serious. Because when I get serious, I take everything SERIOUSLY. So I will take my time, and if I think this is worth taking to the next level, then I'm sure it will get there eventually, as for now, we're just really good friends that have a potential for being something more.
On another note, I haven't slept with another gal since this Aries gal came along, so even though we're not in a relationship yet, I haven't been "playing" her.
I can say this though, I have turned down sex, and it would have been with a woman who I would have loved to have slept with another time, but things are just not the way they used to be between her and I so I won't stoop down to her level just for a single night of fun. I didn't want to deal with the consequences of that, and no matter what anyone says, sex is never free.
As for loving more than one woman, I don't think that's possible, if you give 100% of your love to someone, then how can you give any love to someone else? When it comes to relationships, I give my all, everything I have is on the line, maybe that's why I'm so cautious when it comes to making it official with this Aries gal.
I did tell her I like being around her, and that I do in fact like her, but I made it clear that I wasn't ready for it to get serious. Because when I get serious, I take everything SERIOUSLY. So I will take my time, and if I think this is worth taking to the next level, then I'm sure it will get there eventually, as for now, we're just really good friends that have a potential for being something more.
On another note, I haven't slept with another gal since this Aries gal came along, so even though we're not in a relationship yet, I haven't been "playing" her.
"they tend to crave affection and the physical aspects of a relationship"
Isn't that the definition of being male? They crave the physical, we crave the emotional.
The question was: "what does it take to make a Virgo stay faithful?"
Most men, who are attached to a woman, are faithful. It's a matter of determining what kind of loyalty a woman wants.
In situations where a woman has found out that her man "cheated" on her, her first response, first reaction, very first thought that pops in her head, "he loves her". Sex and love aren't the same thing, as we know, but, women can't seem to seperate the two . . to them, it means the same. If he cheats, she's worried about "love".
When a woman dreams about man she desires and fantasizes about being with him, the majority of the females are NOT thinking sexual stuff . . it's how gentle he can hold her in his arms as he whispers sweet nothings in her ear about how much he loves and desires her.
If the meaning of the word, "loyalty", is not the same between the genders, then how can either party be put on the carpet for breaching this policy?
Still thinking about it and will likely come back with another thought.
Isn't that the definition of being male? They crave the physical, we crave the emotional.
The question was: "what does it take to make a Virgo stay faithful?"
Most men, who are attached to a woman, are faithful. It's a matter of determining what kind of loyalty a woman wants.
In situations where a woman has found out that her man "cheated" on her, her first response, first reaction, very first thought that pops in her head, "he loves her". Sex and love aren't the same thing, as we know, but, women can't seem to seperate the two . . to them, it means the same. If he cheats, she's worried about "love".
When a woman dreams about man she desires and fantasizes about being with him, the majority of the females are NOT thinking sexual stuff . . it's how gentle he can hold her in his arms as he whispers sweet nothings in her ear about how much he loves and desires her.
If the meaning of the word, "loyalty", is not the same between the genders, then how can either party be put on the carpet for breaching this policy?
Still thinking about it and will likely come back with another thought.
Virgopmoon: "So I will take my time, and if I think this is worth taking to the next level, then I'm sure it will get there eventually, as for now, we're just really good friends that have a potential for being something more."
I'm in the same situation as you are, except I'm the aries girl. Let me ask you something...When you say "worth taking to the next level". What makes it wortht he next level? Is it something that she does? Is it some kind of specific quality that you are looking for? Such as "wife material"/"girlfriend material". Can you explain? THANKS!
I'm in the same situation as you are, except I'm the aries girl. Let me ask you something...When you say "worth taking to the next level". What makes it wortht he next level? Is it something that she does? Is it some kind of specific quality that you are looking for? Such as "wife material"/"girlfriend material". Can you explain? THANKS!
Right now I'm assessing the "girlfriend material" part of it. Yes, she's fun to be around, and she can hold conversation with me and keep up with my rapid thought process. She has similar interests in how she likes to spend her freetime, etc, but I'm really assessing how much I can trust her, how much she trusts me, mutual respect, the important things, etc.
I haven't seen this girl in over 3 years before we met again, so I'm trying to get to know her, some things I find out, make me want to take a step back, others make me feel more secure, but it's all about finding a comfortable balance for me to move on to the next stage, the "official stage" as I call it.
I know us VirGuys may not move as quickly as some of you gals would like, but if we can have our time to get things figured out, it will make things that much better when we get to the "official stage"
I haven't seen this girl in over 3 years before we met again, so I'm trying to get to know her, some things I find out, make me want to take a step back, others make me feel more secure, but it's all about finding a comfortable balance for me to move on to the next stage, the "official stage" as I call it.
I know us VirGuys may not move as quickly as some of you gals would like, but if we can have our time to get things figured out, it will make things that much better when we get to the "official stage"
arieswoman,
That's a good question . . what does worthy mean?
If that word, "worthy" gets analyzed from a different angle, then doesn't it take on the look of being shallow? Of being, exactly what Wheel said in another thread about chauvinistic?
True love is a rare thing, even just a profound love is hard to find: Shouldn't just the magnetic connection be enough for both parties to overlook the other's inequities and flaws? Yet, one party has the upper hand in determining the value of the other person, reserving that right for themselves and the other having to do all the comprising.
If you're listening, Wheels, I can see the chauvinistic quality in this statement.
What does that mean? What makes one person in higher command to make the determination of worthiness?
That's a good question . . what does worthy mean?
If that word, "worthy" gets analyzed from a different angle, then doesn't it take on the look of being shallow? Of being, exactly what Wheel said in another thread about chauvinistic?
True love is a rare thing, even just a profound love is hard to find: Shouldn't just the magnetic connection be enough for both parties to overlook the other's inequities and flaws? Yet, one party has the upper hand in determining the value of the other person, reserving that right for themselves and the other having to do all the comprising.
If you're listening, Wheels, I can see the chauvinistic quality in this statement.
What does that mean? What makes one person in higher command to make the determination of worthiness?
Don't take offense, Virgopmoon.
My mind just questions, I didn't mean you personally.
My mind just questions, I didn't mean you personally.
P-Angel,
No offense taken, I can see it, but I know how you say "True love is a rare thing" of course it is, that's why I take so much time to assess what's going on, if this isn't the one, then I don't want to spend years finding that out, if I take time to analyze it up front, it's better than just rushing headfirst into a brick wall. (Which I can say that I've done at least twice now, my head has healed so I would like to keep it that way for awhile)
No offense taken, I can see it, but I know how you say "True love is a rare thing" of course it is, that's why I take so much time to assess what's going on, if this isn't the one, then I don't want to spend years finding that out, if I take time to analyze it up front, it's better than just rushing headfirst into a brick wall. (Which I can say that I've done at least twice now, my head has healed so I would like to keep it that way for awhile)
Vpmoon,
Here's another question if you don't mind. So I am falling for this Virguy and I wanna know. What's an example of the things that makes you feel you want to take a step back? ANd what do you consider trust? For example, calling you when she says she's going to call, or running in front of a bullet for you? Doesn't trust take a whole lot of time to build? What if while you're trying to find out if you can trust her (which could be a lifetime) she, in turn finds that she can't trust you because you're making her wait so long. Sorry for all the questions. AW
Here's another question if you don't mind. So I am falling for this Virguy and I wanna know. What's an example of the things that makes you feel you want to take a step back? ANd what do you consider trust? For example, calling you when she says she's going to call, or running in front of a bullet for you? Doesn't trust take a whole lot of time to build? What if while you're trying to find out if you can trust her (which could be a lifetime) she, in turn finds that she can't trust you because you're making her wait so long. Sorry for all the questions. AW
Vpmoon,
By the way...I sent you a message, please check. Thanks
AW
By the way...I sent you a message, please check. Thanks
AW
"What if while you're trying to find out if you can trust her (which could be a lifetime) she, in turn finds that she can't trust you because you're making her wait so long."
Good point. Also, maybe this is one reason why people believe that Virgo's don't have passion, a soul . . . love is suppose to surge through your viens, make you feel compelled to do whatever is necessary to complete the union on all levels. Yet, here's the Virgo, not feeling that . . or, if he is . . he's electing not to express until he is satisified that the other person is worth more effort.
So, not just the trust thing, arieswoman, but, more so, feeling like the other person doesn't love you as deeply as you do him/her. Stepping back to make assessments is the most logical thing to do. Certainly, a person deosn't want to throw caution to the wind and end up at the bottom . . but, love is blinding and if a person doesn't feel this blind faith in you . . then, the passion starts to wane and eventually, you're at the bottom anyway because of this hesitation.
It appears that a lot of Virgo's miss out on things that could bring them joy, if they would let themselves be free and uninhibited more often. During our ending time, it's our memories that is the only thing left of us . . missing out of beautiful moments because of an insecurity of failure, leaves you with memories of despair and a meaningless life.
Good point. Also, maybe this is one reason why people believe that Virgo's don't have passion, a soul . . . love is suppose to surge through your viens, make you feel compelled to do whatever is necessary to complete the union on all levels. Yet, here's the Virgo, not feeling that . . or, if he is . . he's electing not to express until he is satisified that the other person is worth more effort.
So, not just the trust thing, arieswoman, but, more so, feeling like the other person doesn't love you as deeply as you do him/her. Stepping back to make assessments is the most logical thing to do. Certainly, a person deosn't want to throw caution to the wind and end up at the bottom . . but, love is blinding and if a person doesn't feel this blind faith in you . . then, the passion starts to wane and eventually, you're at the bottom anyway because of this hesitation.
It appears that a lot of Virgo's miss out on things that could bring them joy, if they would let themselves be free and uninhibited more often. During our ending time, it's our memories that is the only thing left of us . . missing out of beautiful moments because of an insecurity of failure, leaves you with memories of despair and a meaningless life.
P-Angel: "it's our memories that is the only thing left of us"
Yup, that is sooooo true. Love is a scary thing and the heart is fragile. Virguys, you do have to be careful at times, but once in the while...and it doesn't come often, you will run into someone that cares about you sooo deeply and that you can completely trust with all your precious heart. But if you don't take the chance...you will rob yourself of true love that not only has the potential to last a life time, but forever in your memories and in your heart. And...it will be sad, very sad. I love this guy so much, not because of initial passion, but everything that he is and everything that he can become. I just hope that he will come around before his assessments slowly wash away all the admiration I have for him, which is soul deep at this moment. But will it last forever is up to him. Remember Vpmoon...it's up to him. Because afterall...we are women.
Yup, that is sooooo true. Love is a scary thing and the heart is fragile. Virguys, you do have to be careful at times, but once in the while...and it doesn't come often, you will run into someone that cares about you sooo deeply and that you can completely trust with all your precious heart. But if you don't take the chance...you will rob yourself of true love that not only has the potential to last a life time, but forever in your memories and in your heart. And...it will be sad, very sad. I love this guy so much, not because of initial passion, but everything that he is and everything that he can become. I just hope that he will come around before his assessments slowly wash away all the admiration I have for him, which is soul deep at this moment. But will it last forever is up to him. Remember Vpmoon...it's up to him. Because afterall...we are women.
I'd give detailed examples, but they're really on a personal level (but if you think about it, you might figure it out). The step back part is something to do with her recent past, it's not fair to judge, because I don't have a clean slate either, but I'd just like to see some signs from her that she's really changed.
Things to make me feel secure, well, the fact that she is being understanding when I say I'm not ready for this to become serious, instead of blowing up on me or trying to rush me, she is giving me the time I need to figure things out. Another note of security, being a friend of my family is always a plus, she gets along great with my sister, and watching her around my niece has been an enlightening experience (the mothering qualities are there).
Things to make me feel secure, well, the fact that she is being understanding when I say I'm not ready for this to become serious, instead of blowing up on me or trying to rush me, she is giving me the time I need to figure things out. Another note of security, being a friend of my family is always a plus, she gets along great with my sister, and watching her around my niece has been an enlightening experience (the mothering qualities are there).
The Virguy that I know has alot of opportunties to cheat or basically have sex with some young 20 something year olds and he's in his 30's. He loves the attention but, he is very picky. He will flirt back and even kiss or make-out with them but, when it comes down to actually having sex with them he stops it unless he wants to really be with that women for more than one night. He tells me this and I don't even ask and fro some strange reason I do believe him. He has a reputation of being a "player" from people around the area because he can be so flirty with the girls but, there is a totally different side to him when you are alone with him that most people don't see. He is very caring, sensative and loves to just cuddle. You will not see that when he is out because he likes to have the reputation that people have given him. For some reason he thinks the guys respect him and think he's cool because of it. Who knows, I could be wrong but, I don't think I am about him.
"if this isn't the one, then I don't want to spend years finding that out"
Maybe, there isn't just one . . maybe, we're suppose to have many. And, in those years of analyzing, there could have been fond memories made of several, or many, wonderful people who brought meaning to different aspects in life.
Also, wouldn't it be illogical for any person to think that there is a person to whom we should keep forever? What is forever?
When we look back at times in our life, the memories we hold dear, what is the only thing about them we still hold? The memory of it!! The old '65 Mustang is gone, that one friend who was the life of the party has moved on, the first place you ever lived on your own is gone . . everything is gone, except the memory.
So, wouldn't it seem more logical to make memories of beautiful loves, even if they were temporary, then spend a lifetime trying to determine if one is worth it?
Secondly on the statement, "if this isn't the one, then I don't want to spend years finding that out" . . . after years have gone by, everybody is different, we've grown from all the varied life experiences . . so, in years, the other person may have grown into being not the right person, even if she was in the beginning.
Questions, questions, questions. They say in the end, that everything is revealed to us. Well, everybody better take a number now . . because it's going to take a long-ass time for me to get all my answers.
Maybe, there isn't just one . . maybe, we're suppose to have many. And, in those years of analyzing, there could have been fond memories made of several, or many, wonderful people who brought meaning to different aspects in life.
Also, wouldn't it be illogical for any person to think that there is a person to whom we should keep forever? What is forever?
When we look back at times in our life, the memories we hold dear, what is the only thing about them we still hold? The memory of it!! The old '65 Mustang is gone, that one friend who was the life of the party has moved on, the first place you ever lived on your own is gone . . everything is gone, except the memory.
So, wouldn't it seem more logical to make memories of beautiful loves, even if they were temporary, then spend a lifetime trying to determine if one is worth it?
Secondly on the statement, "if this isn't the one, then I don't want to spend years finding that out" . . . after years have gone by, everybody is different, we've grown from all the varied life experiences . . so, in years, the other person may have grown into being not the right person, even if she was in the beginning.
Questions, questions, questions. They say in the end, that everything is revealed to us. Well, everybody better take a number now . . because it's going to take a long-ass time for me to get all my answers.
>"ANd what do you consider trust? For example, calling you when she says she's going to call, or running in front of a bullet for you?"
I'd never expect a woman to run in front of a bullet for me, though I must be able to say I would do that for her...
>"Doesn't trust take a whole lot of time to build?"
It takes time, but it doesn't take a lifetime. I can have trust, maybe not 100% trust yet to get into a relationship, but it darn well better be 100% to go even further than that (ie: marriage)
>"What if while you're trying to find out if you can trust her (which could be a lifetime) she, in turn finds that she can't trust you because you're making her wait so long. Sorry for all the questions. AW"
See, here's the way I view it, building trust doesn't take a lifetime (as I mentioned above), and during this process both her and I should be building trust with each other, so there should never be a point where she can't trust me because I'm making her wait too long, believe me, when the time is right, there will be no more waiting, but it's just the process of getting there that takes time.
Also, if the trust is broken at any point, that's when it will take a lifetime to rebuild. Break my trust once and you'll have a very hard time getting it back.
I'd never expect a woman to run in front of a bullet for me, though I must be able to say I would do that for her...
>"Doesn't trust take a whole lot of time to build?"
It takes time, but it doesn't take a lifetime. I can have trust, maybe not 100% trust yet to get into a relationship, but it darn well better be 100% to go even further than that (ie: marriage)
>"What if while you're trying to find out if you can trust her (which could be a lifetime) she, in turn finds that she can't trust you because you're making her wait so long. Sorry for all the questions. AW"
See, here's the way I view it, building trust doesn't take a lifetime (as I mentioned above), and during this process both her and I should be building trust with each other, so there should never be a point where she can't trust me because I'm making her wait too long, believe me, when the time is right, there will be no more waiting, but it's just the process of getting there that takes time.
Also, if the trust is broken at any point, that's when it will take a lifetime to rebuild. Break my trust once and you'll have a very hard time getting it back.
Mothering qualities, huh? I have a neice too. And so does the Virguy. We're both graduating in a few weeks. I'm getting my bachelors and he's getting his associates. I want to be a professor and he wants to be a teacher. I'm a few years older (30), he's 26. We talk on the phone alot alot alot. Sometimes till dawn. We both love children. We both love to learn. He's a Virgo, I'm an Aries. We work together. OK...these are just recaps of what I wrote before. But the question is...
I feel like we've been in a relationship without being in a relationship. We've talked so much and revealed so much of each other and have said some pretty endearing things to each other for a while now (6 months), but why hasn't he done anything?
Vpmoon, when you first got together with her, I'm talking about way in the begining before the breakup, what made you go for her? And how long did it take you to assess that time?
I feel like we've been in a relationship without being in a relationship. We've talked so much and revealed so much of each other and have said some pretty endearing things to each other for a while now (6 months), but why hasn't he done anything?
Vpmoon, when you first got together with her, I'm talking about way in the begining before the breakup, what made you go for her? And how long did it take you to assess that time?
Well, the first time around, she was a freshman in high school, I was a sophomore. I met her in Marching Band (yes I was a band nerd) through her sister, who was good friends with my sister, so from the beginning of band camp til about the end of the football season (just before playoffs) was the time period in which it took me to decide to make it "official".
What made me go for her in high school? She was hottttttttttttt (and still is) and hormones made alot of my decisions back then.
Nowadays I look for more than just "HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT", but that certainly keeps me interested.
What made me go for her in high school? She was hottttttttttttt (and still is) and hormones made alot of my decisions back then.
Nowadays I look for more than just "HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT", but that certainly keeps me interested.
Vpmoon: "and during this process both her and I should be building trust with each other, so there should never be a point where she can't trust me because I'm making her wait too long, believe me, when the time is right, there will be no more waiting, but it's just the process of getting there that takes time."
What I mean by the trust in her part is that ... you will be there in the end, after all the hard work she has put forth to prove herself worthwhile. All the patience she has to endure to get the reward she lonesomely craves for. All the moments of you popping in and out of her head for hours, days, months, possibly years. All that torture (for an aries girl patiences is literally torture). And in the end, it's still fifty/fifty? still waiting for your decision...which can still go either way...
What I mean by the trust in her part is that ... you will be there in the end, after all the hard work she has put forth to prove herself worthwhile. All the patience she has to endure to get the reward she lonesomely craves for. All the moments of you popping in and out of her head for hours, days, months, possibly years. All that torture (for an aries girl patiences is literally torture). And in the end, it's still fifty/fifty? still waiting for your decision...which can still go either way...
It sounds like you are looking for a "Product", rather than an endearing heart.
"I don't have a clean slate either, but I'd just like to see some signs from her that she's really changed."
"Things to make me feel secure"
"being a friend of my family is always a plus"
"the mothering qualities are there"
Reminds me of the Stepford Wives, the men are superiour and the women have to do all the changing and nurturing and live up to a certain expectation that the man demands.
Have you seen the recent movie: "The Island". YOu could have one made for you.
When people fall in love and embrace their inner selves that these two hearts beat as one, none of those things matter because that other person gives you a sense of belonging to this world.
So, in this deliberating over whether the other person is "worthy", is as much time spent looking at yourself, to see if you doing the right things, and making changes to fit her expectations of a "worthy" companion?
The answer would likely be . . . yes. Well, what if the what that person considers you to be worthy, is for you to be uninhibited? Which, by nature you can't do. In truth, the answer would be no, in this scenerio.
There's no logic in trying to make sense out of non-sense.
To think that the other person in a union that is suppose to be equal, is the one who has to change to live up to one persons expectations in that relationship, is non-sense and is in fact, to quote, "just rushing headfirst into a brick wall"
VPmoon, these are just thoughts . . not trying to put you on the spot. My mind spins in a million directions and every word, every sentence . . spawns more questions as to why? For what purpose?
"I don't have a clean slate either, but I'd just like to see some signs from her that she's really changed."
"Things to make me feel secure"
"being a friend of my family is always a plus"
"the mothering qualities are there"
Reminds me of the Stepford Wives, the men are superiour and the women have to do all the changing and nurturing and live up to a certain expectation that the man demands.
Have you seen the recent movie: "The Island". YOu could have one made for you.
When people fall in love and embrace their inner selves that these two hearts beat as one, none of those things matter because that other person gives you a sense of belonging to this world.
So, in this deliberating over whether the other person is "worthy", is as much time spent looking at yourself, to see if you doing the right things, and making changes to fit her expectations of a "worthy" companion?
The answer would likely be . . . yes. Well, what if the what that person considers you to be worthy, is for you to be uninhibited? Which, by nature you can't do. In truth, the answer would be no, in this scenerio.
There's no logic in trying to make sense out of non-sense.
To think that the other person in a union that is suppose to be equal, is the one who has to change to live up to one persons expectations in that relationship, is non-sense and is in fact, to quote, "just rushing headfirst into a brick wall"
VPmoon, these are just thoughts . . not trying to put you on the spot. My mind spins in a million directions and every word, every sentence . . spawns more questions as to why? For what purpose?
Well, another reason why I've slowed down alot is I don't feel she's being 100% honest with me, but rather than confronting her about it, I'm giving her time to come clean... Not to say I think everyone is a liar, because I don't, but by paying attention to every detail it's easy to start identifying those people who are honest and those who are hiding something.
What was the time frame between the begining of band camp till the end of football season, like 3 months?
Something like that, 3 to 4 months. Then again, hormones were a major player, I didn't think as much back then.
P-Angel,
I like your posts, they make me see errors in my ways of thinking. But the true problem is sometimes I have a hard time letting my emotions take over when I know they should, my damn brain just wants handle everything.
I like your posts, they make me see errors in my ways of thinking. But the true problem is sometimes I have a hard time letting my emotions take over when I know they should, my damn brain just wants handle everything.
Vpmoon: "by paying attention to every detail it's easy to start identifying those people who are honest and those who are hiding something."
I am probably the most blunt and honest person that I know, except for my mom. So, I'm usually the victim to those that lie to me. It's so hard to pay attention to every detail to figure out whether they're lieing or not. Why do you say it is easy? Is there some kind of trick or skill or strategy?
I am probably the most blunt and honest person that I know, except for my mom. So, I'm usually the victim to those that lie to me. It's so hard to pay attention to every detail to figure out whether they're lieing or not. Why do you say it is easy? Is there some kind of trick or skill or strategy?
"and during this process both her and I should be building trust with each other, so there should never be a point where she can't trust me"
Yet, you've not decided whether you can trust her . . but, she should automatically trust you.
"when the time is right, there will be no more waiting"
On your terms . . . this suggests that you feel you are superiour because you determine what is right and what is wrong . . she lives up to your expectations and waits for your decision . . or, she's done and no longer deserves your qualities in her life.
This sounds very double-standard.
Ok, I see it now, Wheels . . . plain and clear.
Yet, you've not decided whether you can trust her . . but, she should automatically trust you.
"when the time is right, there will be no more waiting"
On your terms . . . this suggests that you feel you are superiour because you determine what is right and what is wrong . . she lives up to your expectations and waits for your decision . . or, she's done and no longer deserves your qualities in her life.
This sounds very double-standard.
Ok, I see it now, Wheels . . . plain and clear.
And I think all Virgos can agree, rationalizing emotions is damn near impossibile.
Sometimes I wonder if all I really do is try to convince myself not to get involved in serious relationships.
Sometimes I wonder if all I really do is try to convince myself not to get involved in serious relationships.
It's an acquired skill, I take in so much and eventually people slip up.
Anyways, I'll be able to reply in about 8 hours, I've got work to do.
Anyways, I'll be able to reply in about 8 hours, I've got work to do.
And P-Angel, I'm not identifying what's right and wrong for everyone, I'm looking at what's right and wrong for me.
VPmoon,
I'm just thinking out loud and pondering all the differnt motives and intentions, relationship interactions . . why some does this, does that. Is that fair? Is that biased?
You don't have to feel like you have to answer . . . I'm asking the universe and myself, and anybody would wants to add, or comment . . out loud.
I'm just thinking out loud and pondering all the differnt motives and intentions, relationship interactions . . why some does this, does that. Is that fair? Is that biased?
You don't have to feel like you have to answer . . . I'm asking the universe and myself, and anybody would wants to add, or comment . . out loud.
P-Angel
>If my man gives me everything I need to feel like a woman, and to be loved to my very core . . then, goes out and bangs some stupid, bitch, whore that means nothing to him . . then, I don't know that I would consider that cheating.
I wish my old Cancer girlfriend could've seen that. When I realized I needed something more, after much soul searching, I popped the question to her about hooking up with another couple... swinging... but she blew her stack at me.
I heard on a radio show once, the subject of swinging. And all the incoming callers were females. All said they dug it, and most said they had suggested it to their husbands.
The single side relationship I had during my 10 years with CancerGal, was only a once a month thing, and tho I was friendly with the other gal, was mainly about sex. We'd spend 8 hours in bed, once a month. It went on for 8 months or more.
During this time I treated my C-Gal with as much love and respect as ever. I even believe I became MORE interested in passion with her as she was actually a better lover. The side relationship boosted my sexuality and my interest in sex.
I was completely honest with the other woman. She knew about my C-gal and knew that if the chips were down... I'd choose my C-gal over her. I had told her before we started the affair how it would be and though she wanted me then and there, made her wait a month to make sure she wanted to take on a relationship like this.
That was way back in 1997. My C-Gal found out within a year, I broke up with the other woman, and spent the next six years trying to avoid any further entanglements. Till finally me and my CancerGal broke up. Now it's been since 2004 that I've had a girlfriend... been tough.
Back in 1997, and at other times in my life, I prayed for a "switch" to turn off that part of myself... but there is no switch. It's a battle that some of us fight all of our lives, with some winning and some losing to their passion.
VPM
>As for loving more than one woman, I don't think that's possible, if you give 100% of your love to someone, then how can you give any love to someone else?
You CAN love more than one. Do you have only one friend?
The problem with more than one, is like the old song... it's a ball and chain. The more friends or lovers you add, the less time you have, the less time for yourself and the less time to devote to them.
>If my man gives me everything I need to feel like a woman, and to be loved to my very core . . then, goes out and bangs some stupid, bitch, whore that means nothing to him . . then, I don't know that I would consider that cheating.
I wish my old Cancer girlfriend could've seen that. When I realized I needed something more, after much soul searching, I popped the question to her about hooking up with another couple... swinging... but she blew her stack at me.
I heard on a radio show once, the subject of swinging. And all the incoming callers were females. All said they dug it, and most said they had suggested it to their husbands.
The single side relationship I had during my 10 years with CancerGal, was only a once a month thing, and tho I was friendly with the other gal, was mainly about sex. We'd spend 8 hours in bed, once a month. It went on for 8 months or more.
During this time I treated my C-Gal with as much love and respect as ever. I even believe I became MORE interested in passion with her as she was actually a better lover. The side relationship boosted my sexuality and my interest in sex.
I was completely honest with the other woman. She knew about my C-gal and knew that if the chips were down... I'd choose my C-gal over her. I had told her before we started the affair how it would be and though she wanted me then and there, made her wait a month to make sure she wanted to take on a relationship like this.
That was way back in 1997. My C-Gal found out within a year, I broke up with the other woman, and spent the next six years trying to avoid any further entanglements. Till finally me and my CancerGal broke up. Now it's been since 2004 that I've had a girlfriend... been tough.
Back in 1997, and at other times in my life, I prayed for a "switch" to turn off that part of myself... but there is no switch. It's a battle that some of us fight all of our lives, with some winning and some losing to their passion.
VPM
>As for loving more than one woman, I don't think that's possible, if you give 100% of your love to someone, then how can you give any love to someone else?
You CAN love more than one. Do you have only one friend?
The problem with more than one, is like the old song... it's a ball and chain. The more friends or lovers you add, the less time you have, the less time for yourself and the less time to devote to them.
It's said that our closest living relative in the animal world is the Chimpanze "Pan troglodytes". Yet the "Pan paniscus" Chimp must also be included. They are the only other Ape like us. Even WE are not so extream when it comes to sexuality. But it gives you some insight into human behavior.
>I tried to date two women in college once - way too much juggling! - like, Who's Who? and What's What??
LOL, no doubt. I'm afraid I take after my Pieces Father on this one. He also had this problem. Don't know about when he was married to my mother... he told me once that he never cheated on her, but I wouldn't have cared much if he did. (he's passed on now) He divorced my mom in 1971. I do know, that he had at least five lovers in the early 70's and at one time they all found about about eachother, and all told him off... it was a tough time for him. After he passed on, I found a diary dating from around 1980 to a year before his death at age 73, in which he listed every encounter with his 4 to 6 girlfriends... I assume so to avoid getting them mixed up and avoid what happened to him in the 70's.
>FC: If you could've arranged a menage a trois between these two women and yourself, would you have done that?
I would not have arranged it myself or suggested it. Two at once is too much. If asked I would have tried it, but don't think it would have worked.
I've never been in a threesome btw, and likely never will.
>So much for us being Twins separated at birth...
LOL... we're pretty close Dy, but can't expect everything to match up.
Alot of it is genetics I believe. IT's why my two older brothers, who have the same mother as I and my little bro, but have a different Father by my moms first marriage, battled alcolhol and drugs to the point of having to go to AA to get clean. Their Dad and his whole family were druggies and alkies. My dad drank, but lightly, and me and my little bro, have never had a problem, often going months without drinking even a beer... I think genetics plays a big part in who we are and what our appitites are.
LOL, no doubt. I'm afraid I take after my Pieces Father on this one. He also had this problem. Don't know about when he was married to my mother... he told me once that he never cheated on her, but I wouldn't have cared much if he did. (he's passed on now) He divorced my mom in 1971. I do know, that he had at least five lovers in the early 70's and at one time they all found about about eachother, and all told him off... it was a tough time for him. After he passed on, I found a diary dating from around 1980 to a year before his death at age 73, in which he listed every encounter with his 4 to 6 girlfriends... I assume so to avoid getting them mixed up and avoid what happened to him in the 70's.
>FC: If you could've arranged a menage a trois between these two women and yourself, would you have done that?
I would not have arranged it myself or suggested it. Two at once is too much. If asked I would have tried it, but don't think it would have worked.
I've never been in a threesome btw, and likely never will.
>So much for us being Twins separated at birth...
LOL... we're pretty close Dy, but can't expect everything to match up.
Alot of it is genetics I believe. IT's why my two older brothers, who have the same mother as I and my little bro, but have a different Father by my moms first marriage, battled alcolhol and drugs to the point of having to go to AA to get clean. Their Dad and his whole family were druggies and alkies. My dad drank, but lightly, and me and my little bro, have never had a problem, often going months without drinking even a beer... I think genetics plays a big part in who we are and what our appitites are.
P-Angel... your profile pic is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sexy. = ))))))))))))
>Uh, I was in a 4-way one night (3 femmes, 1 homme), and I really got confused. Got laid & laid & laid...
ROTFLMAO! Still laughing!!!!!!!!!!! OMG you've been around DY, LOL.
ROTFLMAO! Still laughing!!!!!!!!!!! OMG you've been around DY, LOL.
P-Angel,
I guess my real issue is that when I have an emotion, I always think it must be justified, for instance if I hate someone, I have to know why, especially before I'll publicly display the emotion, likewise, if I have a fondness for someone, I need to know why... I wish I could just accept and acknowledge my emotions without having to go through this thought process, oh how much easier life would be. And I suppose since I'm taking time to assess my situation with this girl, then she must not be the one, because if she is the one, then I should just accept it, without trying to argue myself out of getting involved more deeply with her.
I guess my biggest problem right now is trying to figure out whether I like her just because we have sex, or whether there really is something more there. And I'd like to figure this out more for her sake than mine, I'd hate to get into a relationship with her just because I like having sex with her, I'd rather get into a relationship because I know I love her... and I'm just not there yet.
Yes, this is a me issue, maybe a problem with how my brain works, whatever, I know I need to just find a bypass or something to just get through this crap without fighting myself all the time, but I don't think it will ever be that simple for me to accept my emotions.
I guess my real issue is that when I have an emotion, I always think it must be justified, for instance if I hate someone, I have to know why, especially before I'll publicly display the emotion, likewise, if I have a fondness for someone, I need to know why... I wish I could just accept and acknowledge my emotions without having to go through this thought process, oh how much easier life would be. And I suppose since I'm taking time to assess my situation with this girl, then she must not be the one, because if she is the one, then I should just accept it, without trying to argue myself out of getting involved more deeply with her.
I guess my biggest problem right now is trying to figure out whether I like her just because we have sex, or whether there really is something more there. And I'd like to figure this out more for her sake than mine, I'd hate to get into a relationship with her just because I like having sex with her, I'd rather get into a relationship because I know I love her... and I'm just not there yet.
Yes, this is a me issue, maybe a problem with how my brain works, whatever, I know I need to just find a bypass or something to just get through this crap without fighting myself all the time, but I don't think it will ever be that simple for me to accept my emotions.
Oh, and I spent all day at work thinking about this... bah, quit making me think about how I feel. It's no fun...
I kid, I kid, I really do appreciate it though, very few people have ever forced me to try to figure things like this out.
I kid, I kid, I really do appreciate it though, very few people have ever forced me to try to figure things like this out.
VPmoon,
Honey, I'm sorry . . now I feel bad. I wasn't trying to get you to question your relationship. My mind just inquires about all the possibilities of what things mean and I did it out loud in here. I'm sure you're doing everything right in your relationship, that was just me letting my head spin.
Forgive me?
Honey, I'm sorry . . now I feel bad. I wasn't trying to get you to question your relationship. My mind just inquires about all the possibilities of what things mean and I did it out loud in here. I'm sure you're doing everything right in your relationship, that was just me letting my head spin.
Forgive me?
Oh crap, don't feel bad...
Trust me, I needed this, these are questions that must be asked and it's the only way I'm going to figure anything out.
Trust me, I needed this, these are questions that must be asked and it's the only way I'm going to figure anything out.
What I mean by that is, I do need to continue growing throughout my life. As soon as I can just acknowledge emotions without having a long drawn out thought process associated with it the better.
Ugh. After reading some of those posts, I'm feeling a bit disgusted....ooook, shake it off 
dyrstr8z, you said you were always faithful to your wife, and my question to you is, is there any possibility that it could have been different? Was there something about her or some circumstance that encouraged you to be faithful in her absence (kind of getting back to the original question). Or is that just the kind of person you are, and you would never cheat?
Another thing is that you say that only one Virgo is an adulterer. I'm not trying to "prove" that Virgoes are cheaters, but I am going to point out the possibility that these men, while they don't cheat now, may have cheated in earlier relationships. Yeah, it's a man thing, whatever. However, from what I have personally seen and experienced, Virgoes cheat more than men of other signs that I know.
dyrstr8z, you said you were always faithful to your wife, and my question to you is, is there any possibility that it could have been different? Was there something about her or some circumstance that encouraged you to be faithful in her absence (kind of getting back to the original question). Or is that just the kind of person you are, and you would never cheat?
Another thing is that you say that only one Virgo is an adulterer. I'm not trying to "prove" that Virgoes are cheaters, but I am going to point out the possibility that these men, while they don't cheat now, may have cheated in earlier relationships. Yeah, it's a man thing, whatever. However, from what I have personally seen and experienced, Virgoes cheat more than men of other signs that I know.
"Yeah, it's a man thing, whatever."
Meaning, you dont' think it's a MAN thing, rather, just a Virgo thing?
"However, from what I have personally seen and experienced, Virgoes cheat more than men of other signs that I know."
The whole 18 years, or just partial?
Meaning, you dont' think it's a MAN thing, rather, just a Virgo thing?
"However, from what I have personally seen and experienced, Virgoes cheat more than men of other signs that I know."
The whole 18 years, or just partial?
"If my man gives me everything I need to feel like a woman, and to be loved to my very core . . then, goes out and bangs some stupid, bitch, whore that means nothing to him . . then, I don't know that I would consider that cheating."
Are you playing the devil's advocate here or is this really how you feel?
I know that everyone here is older than me, and more realistic (or is it jaded? just given up?
), but in a relationship, if someone cheats on me (physically), it's over. And I'm not saying that theoretically or in a "what if" kind of way, because yeah, it's happened to me before. To be honest, to cheat on someone while in a committed relationship for purely physical reasons really makes a human no better than an animal (which I realize some people are ok with, possibly for justification, who knows; I think it's just sad). Because I believe that loyalty is important (and really don't understand why people wouldn't, but hey, there's a lot of things I'll never understand), as a sign of respect, devotion, and compassion. To me, it doesn't matter how "womanly" and "loved" a man makes me feel, because cheating on me is a huge display of disrespect and, ultimately, weakness on his part.
Are you playing the devil's advocate here or is this really how you feel?
I know that everyone here is older than me, and more realistic (or is it jaded? just given up?
), but in a relationship, if someone cheats on me (physically), it's over. And I'm not saying that theoretically or in a "what if" kind of way, because yeah, it's happened to me before. To be honest, to cheat on someone while in a committed relationship for purely physical reasons really makes a human no better than an animal (which I realize some people are ok with, possibly for justification, who knows; I think it's just sad). Because I believe that loyalty is important (and really don't understand why people wouldn't, but hey, there's a lot of things I'll never understand), as a sign of respect, devotion, and compassion. To me, it doesn't matter how "womanly" and "loved" a man makes me feel, because cheating on me is a huge display of disrespect and, ultimately, weakness on his part. "The whole 18 years, or just partial?"
Another person who doesn't appreciate the insight of a young'n. That can be a mistake sometimes.
Another person who doesn't appreciate the insight of a young'n. That can be a mistake sometimes.
Oh, and to answer your question, just partial. Things started turning shitty about...we'll say, 5 years ago, and I can CLEARLY see from the responses I'm getting that it's only going to get worse. 
Yes, that is really how I feel. That doesn't mean that I condone this behaviour, it simply means that the word, "cheating", means something different to women and men. To hold someone to a policy, when the interpretation is different, sets both people up to fail. To you, it means a lot, to others, it may not have that kind of impact. So, I guess the trick is to find someone who matches your own philosophy, rather then making someone adhere to your own. And I dont' mean, you specifically . . I'm talking about people in general.
I see that a lot in here and in real life. ONe person makes a decision that this is how they feel, and tries to force the other to abide by the rule. That's one-sided. If the other person doesn't process faithfulness the same . . walk away and find someone who does, rather than trying to force someone to change.
I feel that way about cheating, you don't . . that doesn't make me right or wrong . . or you right or wrong . . just different.
There is one thing though, that does bother me about this thread you started. It appears as though you've already made the assessment that all Virgo's are cheaters, presummably basing it off of one relationship with a Virgo. That's pretty unfair, for all people have different morals.
I almost get the feeling, looking at the words you use and the tone, that now that you've made this assessment . . it's up to the Virgo's to prove you different. I'm not saying that is the intention . . only that it appears that way from the verbage.
I see that a lot in here and in real life. ONe person makes a decision that this is how they feel, and tries to force the other to abide by the rule. That's one-sided. If the other person doesn't process faithfulness the same . . walk away and find someone who does, rather than trying to force someone to change.
I feel that way about cheating, you don't . . that doesn't make me right or wrong . . or you right or wrong . . just different.
There is one thing though, that does bother me about this thread you started. It appears as though you've already made the assessment that all Virgo's are cheaters, presummably basing it off of one relationship with a Virgo. That's pretty unfair, for all people have different morals.
I almost get the feeling, looking at the words you use and the tone, that now that you've made this assessment . . it's up to the Virgo's to prove you different. I'm not saying that is the intention . . only that it appears that way from the verbage.
"presummably basing it off of one relationship with a Virgo."
You're right, that would be unfair, if it was what I was doing.
"I almost get the feeling, looking at the words you use and the tone, that now that you've made this assessment . . it's up to the Virgo's to prove you different"
Hmm, maybe. Actually I just want to know some facts. If a Virgo proves to me that there is hope for them to be loyal, that would be a nice plus.
You're right, that would be unfair, if it was what I was doing.
"I almost get the feeling, looking at the words you use and the tone, that now that you've made this assessment . . it's up to the Virgo's to prove you different"
Hmm, maybe. Actually I just want to know some facts. If a Virgo proves to me that there is hope for them to be loyal, that would be a nice plus.
As a VirGuy I guess this is all I can really say, you can pass your judgement if you wish:
I can turn down sex, but I can't turn down love... I can only run and hide from love, but it eventually gets me.
And if I give 100% of my love to a woman and receive 100% of her love in return, then I have no need to look elsewhere for love, hence, I can turn down sex from other women and remain faithful to my gal (who I'm ironically running and hiding from right now, if you have read my other posts you should know this).
I can turn down sex, but I can't turn down love... I can only run and hide from love, but it eventually gets me.
And if I give 100% of my love to a woman and receive 100% of her love in return, then I have no need to look elsewhere for love, hence, I can turn down sex from other women and remain faithful to my gal (who I'm ironically running and hiding from right now, if you have read my other posts you should know this).
I'm not passing judgment! lol
I'm not even qualified to do that it's not like I walk around with a sticker on my shirt that says, "Hello My Name is Superior" I swear, I didn't start this thread because I hate Virgoes or something hehehe.
Thanks for your honesty.
I'm not even qualified to do that
it's not like I walk around with a sticker on my shirt that says, "Hello My Name is Superior" I swear, I didn't start this thread because I hate Virgoes or something hehehe.Thanks for your honesty.
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