Lifes hard choices...
This topic was created in the Libra forum by nicodemus on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 and has 11 replies.
I have a friend who happens to be my best friend since second grade (we're 25 now) who recently broke up with his fiance.
I am a bit stuck on how to handle the situation with him.
Over a week ago he and his fiance got into a huge fight after she found him alone at the bar that night. She and his family have been dealing with him having a drinking problem for a while now. He called to tell me about the fight which in his version was raw emotion and physical aggression beyond the scope of reason or rational towards him. He decided to cool off by staying at a friends house that night after he says it was obvious progress couldn't be made in the issue.
The next day I am coaching him over the phone (we live in different states) on how to conduct himself so that he was most likely to get mindful and meaningful response from her in how to fix the situation. In the end they agreed to couples counselling, to move forward with the wedding on the 16th of this month and to get medical tests done to "try and figure out why he acts so weird sometimes." (he has been blaming the symptoms of drinking on having aspergers syndrome or an "over active adrenal gland" to hide it.)
Then, within 24 hours of that he up and dissapeared.. He was sending her and his family texts that he was staying with one of his guy friends that they all knew and he needed some time to himself to think about things. He promised everyone he would come home that night. After that night no one heard from him for two days. I explained to them that he might have realized that based on what he agreed to his identity, his sense of self and all of the lies he has told (closet drinking always comes with it's friend compulsive lying) and he was about to be judged and hoping that the people who say that love him really do.
I was his fiance's main source of guidance and comfort through this because of my history with him and our brotherhood like friendship. She was sure he was doing something bad and afraid for him I was telling her she might be absolutely right but that he might be going through a reality check and could come back ready to deliver on the promises he just made.
On the second day, she got a phone call from a male at a blocked number who told her "I don't know you, you don't know me, I know where he is and I am calling you because I don't agree with it and I think you should know what is happening." He gave her a phone # of where he thought her fiance could be reached an
I am a bit stuck on how to handle the situation with him.
Over a week ago he and his fiance got into a huge fight after she found him alone at the bar that night. She and his family have been dealing with him having a drinking problem for a while now. He called to tell me about the fight which in his version was raw emotion and physical aggression beyond the scope of reason or rational towards him. He decided to cool off by staying at a friends house that night after he says it was obvious progress couldn't be made in the issue.
The next day I am coaching him over the phone (we live in different states) on how to conduct himself so that he was most likely to get mindful and meaningful response from her in how to fix the situation. In the end they agreed to couples counselling, to move forward with the wedding on the 16th of this month and to get medical tests done to "try and figure out why he acts so weird sometimes." (he has been blaming the symptoms of drinking on having aspergers syndrome or an "over active adrenal gland" to hide it.)
Then, within 24 hours of that he up and dissapeared.. He was sending her and his family texts that he was staying with one of his guy friends that they all knew and he needed some time to himself to think about things. He promised everyone he would come home that night. After that night no one heard from him for two days. I explained to them that he might have realized that based on what he agreed to his identity, his sense of self and all of the lies he has told (closet drinking always comes with it's friend compulsive lying) and he was about to be judged and hoping that the people who say that love him really do.
I was his fiance's main source of guidance and comfort through this because of my history with him and our brotherhood like friendship. She was sure he was doing something bad and afraid for him I was telling her she might be absolutely right but that he might be going through a reality check and could come back ready to deliver on the promises he just made.
On the second day, she got a phone call from a male at a blocked number who told her "I don't know you, you don't know me, I know where he is and I am calling you because I don't agree with it and I think you should know what is happening." He gave her a phone # of where he thought her fiance could be reached an
and told her the people at that number would most likely explain everything to her.
She called me right away.
I have the skills and contacts to find just about anyone and anywhere from my bail enforcement experience. I would not mis-use my tools to snoop on people I know, but given the context of the phone call I decided that since his safety might be at stake it was time to get shit done.
Within two hours I knew who was on the other end of each phone from the situation, where they lived, where their family lived and a pretty good idea of what type of people they where and what they might all be doing.
I was waiting for a little more info on one individual before I flushed my friend out when he called his fiance and told her that he would meet her to explain everything.
He did, turns out he was with another girl the whole time and he thought it would be best if they called off the wedding and separated their relationship with the hopes that they could work things out in the future.
Shes about to go into her 3rd trimester with their unborn baby.
Since then he has lied to both of these girls providing his fiance with all of the proof she needed to justify her suspicions and feelings about his character.
He has played phone tag with me since then, after my last attempt to call him he hasn't tried calling me back. I am pretty sure he is pissed at me for my involvement which I see as entirely his problem.
I am also sure that I will talk to him again. I am pretty torn right now between completely dressing him down and ending our friendship or getting the point across but maintaining friendship so that I at least still have the ability to influence his decisions and hopefully turn him around.
What do you guys think?
The only reason I am indecisive on this is more than just a friendship, we grew up together.
My gut is leaning towards telling him exactly what I think and then telling him to go fuck himself as I know the lies and deception are not going to change over night.
She called me right away.
I have the skills and contacts to find just about anyone and anywhere from my bail enforcement experience. I would not mis-use my tools to snoop on people I know, but given the context of the phone call I decided that since his safety might be at stake it was time to get shit done.
Within two hours I knew who was on the other end of each phone from the situation, where they lived, where their family lived and a pretty good idea of what type of people they where and what they might all be doing.
I was waiting for a little more info on one individual before I flushed my friend out when he called his fiance and told her that he would meet her to explain everything.
He did, turns out he was with another girl the whole time and he thought it would be best if they called off the wedding and separated their relationship with the hopes that they could work things out in the future.
Shes about to go into her 3rd trimester with their unborn baby.
Since then he has lied to both of these girls providing his fiance with all of the proof she needed to justify her suspicions and feelings about his character.
He has played phone tag with me since then, after my last attempt to call him he hasn't tried calling me back. I am pretty sure he is pissed at me for my involvement which I see as entirely his problem.
I am also sure that I will talk to him again. I am pretty torn right now between completely dressing him down and ending our friendship or getting the point across but maintaining friendship so that I at least still have the ability to influence his decisions and hopefully turn him around.
What do you guys think?
The only reason I am indecisive on this is more than just a friendship, we grew up together.
My gut is leaning towards telling him exactly what I think and then telling him to go fuck himself as I know the lies and deception are not going to change over night.
Sometimes, friendships can't last no matter how long you've known somebody. Your friend has made some terrible decisions, that he will likely regret in the long run. Hopefully, it won't be too long considering a child is involved.
I would tell him exactly how I feel about what he did, why I became involved and why I did what I thought was right in the situation. This friend of yours seems to have some serious problems, if he truly is an alcoholic. But he is also young...I am assuming he is close in age to you. That is a lot of responsibility to face and a lot of life changes to accept.
I wouldn't shut the door completely on this friendship, but I would make it clear I wouldn't participate in the bad decisions that have been made and that I wouldn't condone them or tolerate them. If he could possibly heal the situation in any way, your support and trust could slowly come back.
I would tell him exactly how I feel about what he did, why I became involved and why I did what I thought was right in the situation. This friend of yours seems to have some serious problems, if he truly is an alcoholic. But he is also young...I am assuming he is close in age to you. That is a lot of responsibility to face and a lot of life changes to accept.
I wouldn't shut the door completely on this friendship, but I would make it clear I wouldn't participate in the bad decisions that have been made and that I wouldn't condone them or tolerate them. If he could possibly heal the situation in any way, your support and trust could slowly come back.
I don't trust that growing up together can mean anything anymore. Librans are nostalgic, sentimental and place value on the years of friendship etc.
Trust cannot be based on number of years. I know that because the friend I grew up with betrayed me and everything that we hold went down the drain. I learnt a lesson from this, and it is that years known dont really mean anything. You cannot base your trust on that.
People change as they grow up. Their mindsets change - only in some that value the friendship does trust remain. for the rest, it's been discarded long long ago.
Trust cannot be based on number of years. I know that because the friend I grew up with betrayed me and everything that we hold went down the drain. I learnt a lesson from this, and it is that years known dont really mean anything. You cannot base your trust on that.
People change as they grow up. Their mindsets change - only in some that value the friendship does trust remain. for the rest, it's been discarded long long ago.
Muse,
Yeah we are the same age. He was telling everyone how excited he was to have a family, I thought it was the best thing for him and that if he was going to change his ways being a father was about the only thing that would make him want to.
I am thinking along the same lines as you, I'll let him know what I think and where I stand with his actions and from there the level of friendship is up to him.
Spica,
Yeah we are the same age. He was telling everyone how excited he was to have a family, I thought it was the best thing for him and that if he was going to change his ways being a father was about the only thing that would make him want to.
I am thinking along the same lines as you, I'll let him know what I think and where I stand with his actions and from there the level of friendship is up to him.
Spica,
I think you need to let him hit bottom. If I were you I would back away. Try to help his fiance if you are close to her. She really needs to stop all the wedding plans and prepare for the baby. That would be my focus at this point. Your friend may or may not come around soon. If he has another woman in this mix, I am sure she will fight to keep him with her. Tough Stuff. Good Luck Nic (the former Kennyg)
Well I finally got a hold of him last night. He wasn't sounding so good, like his life got turned up side down. He was telling me lies and superficial circumstantial events from the last week or so.
I told him that I am not out to judge him but if he wants to talk to me he needs to cut the bullshit and actually talk to me. I told him that I think there is something that is making it hard for him to realize happiness, something inside him that is holding him down.
He said he thought so too but I think that he really didn't want to get into it with his best friend of so long last night.
I told him whatever he needed to talk about whenever he needed to talk about it I would be here.
I got pretty strong with him in a couple points of the conversation and afterwards I kind of wish I didn't because as MS. Pisces pointed out....I am dealing with someone who might not be capable of being genuine at any given moment.
I was talking for a couple hours with his parents last night. they like to swap info and opinion so that they can come up with the best way to get them help.
I told them that I think the root cause is some form of personality disorder, weather bi-polar slow or rapid cycle, mild schizophrenia (which he has in his family line) or something else. I think that the drinking is a consequence of a deeper personality issue. He can get his shit together for several days and he seems completely happy and normal with no signs of withdrawals and then flip into a completely different character it seems like.
Aparently he showed up at his parents house within the last week and admitted he had a drinking problem he wants help taking care of and that he wants to get blood work done. I told them to try and get him to see someone for possible psychological issues too.
I told him that I am not out to judge him but if he wants to talk to me he needs to cut the bullshit and actually talk to me. I told him that I think there is something that is making it hard for him to realize happiness, something inside him that is holding him down.
He said he thought so too but I think that he really didn't want to get into it with his best friend of so long last night.
I told him whatever he needed to talk about whenever he needed to talk about it I would be here.
I got pretty strong with him in a couple points of the conversation and afterwards I kind of wish I didn't because as MS. Pisces pointed out....I am dealing with someone who might not be capable of being genuine at any given moment.
I was talking for a couple hours with his parents last night. they like to swap info and opinion so that they can come up with the best way to get them help.
I told them that I think the root cause is some form of personality disorder, weather bi-polar slow or rapid cycle, mild schizophrenia (which he has in his family line) or something else. I think that the drinking is a consequence of a deeper personality issue. He can get his shit together for several days and he seems completely happy and normal with no signs of withdrawals and then flip into a completely different character it seems like.
Aparently he showed up at his parents house within the last week and admitted he had a drinking problem he wants help taking care of and that he wants to get blood work done. I told them to try and get him to see someone for possible psychological issues too.
his drinking seems like an avoidance of issues..
It's hard to interfere in a relationship because you may end up taking the rap for his and his wife's relationship problems.
I would always stay away from another couple's problems. And since he's your friend, and u help his wife, he may think you're coming between them. This is always a delicate and complicated issue.
its great he wants to get help
but I think the issue is more ethical/moralistic than drinking/ mental problems..
It's hard to interfere in a relationship because you may end up taking the rap for his and his wife's relationship problems.
I would always stay away from another couple's problems. And since he's your friend, and u help his wife, he may think you're coming between them. This is always a delicate and complicated issue.
its great he wants to get help
but I think the issue is more ethical/moralistic than drinking/ mental problems..
Wow, sounds like he is bi-polar, I think in the long run he will appreciate that you helped his fiance out at a time when he could not.
I think you did the right thing by saying you would be their whenever he needed to talk, once he is ready hopefully he will get the help he needs.
I think you did the right thing by saying you would be their whenever he needed to talk, once he is ready hopefully he will get the help he needs.
Posted by spica
his drinking seems like an avoidance of issues..
It's hard to interfere in a relationship because you may end up taking the rap for his and his wife's relationship problems.
I would always stay away from another couple's problems. And since he's your friend, and u help his wife, he may think you're coming between them. This is always a delicate and complicated issue.
its great he wants to get help
but I think the issue is more ethical/moralistic than drinking/ mental problems..
Yeah I think at the root he has inadequacy issues. His parents said confidence but confidence is usually also a symptom of a deeper issue. Whoever he is with he mirrors. If he is with me he relates directly to me and with his parents the same, he has a different character/personality. This suggests a suppressed sense of self and that he believes that if he were to project himself other people would think low of him.
He is the one that originally asked me to talk to her. He told me that I know him better than anyone and he trusts my advice when they were initially fighting before everything went down and asked if I would talk to her because they weren't able to get a calm conversation going about anything.
I told him I would but that if I were to get involved my only goal is to get to the bottom of what she thinks and feels about the situation so that he can better understand what she wants and needs....that I wouldn't be doing it to "get his back" in the sense of defending him. I told him my goal is the truth from both ends and then giving each of them my opinion based on what each of them say.
He told me he would appreciate that so thats why I was originally involved. As for tracking down the people he was with and trying to figure out what was going on when he disappeared, I held off on doing so until she got a phone call that suggested he was in trouble or involved in something bad. At that point weather he likes it or not my responsibility as a friend is to look out for his well being.
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