opinions welcome!
This topic was created in the Sagittarius forum by kafka on Saturday, April 14, 2007 and has 39 replies.
I'm a Scorp girl.
I got asked out by a Sag guy a month and a half ago...He wasnt my type, I'd just gotten out of something (ie. I was bitter) and wasn't even looking. And I said yes to giving my phone #, just cuz I could use the attention. Then he called, asked me out, all that stuff.
He's actually 6 yrs younger than me, also a reason why I didnt take him seriously. But then he surprised me with his maturity overall...I actually forgot the age difference. I started liking him, and our first kiss was amazing. He said he felt tingly inside and that he hadn't before.
Then after showering me with attention and acting like he's totally into me over the phone too, he had a talk with me saying "I actually don't want a relationship right now. My life is busy as it is. I want you to date others, and be able to pick up every now and then when I want to too"...I had first said I want us to be exclusive, even if it's casual. Then it made sense: if you're exclusive, no matter how casual, its a relationship--which we both don't want. So I accepted his terms. He also admitted that he acted more lovey-dovey than he was actually feeling. I didn't force him to. Why did he do that?
But how crazy is this? I feel like my ego's injured or something. Here's where I am:
1-I really appreciate his honesty and won't use that against him, because he's been so honest from day 1. It's refreshing.
2-I don't understand how he can be attracted to me and want to have sex with others, even though I'm ok with being casual. (Ok, ok...scorps can never be casual. Maybe he's doing me a favour) How can one be like that?
3-I want to have control!!!!!!! Yes I admit, I want to have control...and because we see each other once a week or so, if I have time, I don't say no. But then its all on his terms, which makes me insecure. I want to feel like he doesn't take me for granted!
4-Last of all, when we ARE together, we have a really great time, and sex is like 15-20% of it. He's taught me a great deal about "live and let live", freedom, giving someone space etc...But my ego's here, I want him to be crazy about me. Why does it feel like he's less into me because he doesn't want exclusivity?
Why is it? Do you guys get how I feel? Has anyone felt this way...happy and free, yet insecure (or something)? How can one share physical stuff, and appear not to care?
PS: I don't want a relationship either...but his attitude is a bit too relaxed for me. How can someone be like that?
I got asked out by a Sag guy a month and a half ago...He wasnt my type, I'd just gotten out of something (ie. I was bitter) and wasn't even looking. And I said yes to giving my phone #, just cuz I could use the attention. Then he called, asked me out, all that stuff.
He's actually 6 yrs younger than me, also a reason why I didnt take him seriously. But then he surprised me with his maturity overall...I actually forgot the age difference. I started liking him, and our first kiss was amazing. He said he felt tingly inside and that he hadn't before.
Then after showering me with attention and acting like he's totally into me over the phone too, he had a talk with me saying "I actually don't want a relationship right now. My life is busy as it is. I want you to date others, and be able to pick up every now and then when I want to too"...I had first said I want us to be exclusive, even if it's casual. Then it made sense: if you're exclusive, no matter how casual, its a relationship--which we both don't want. So I accepted his terms. He also admitted that he acted more lovey-dovey than he was actually feeling. I didn't force him to. Why did he do that?
But how crazy is this? I feel like my ego's injured or something. Here's where I am:
1-I really appreciate his honesty and won't use that against him, because he's been so honest from day 1. It's refreshing.
2-I don't understand how he can be attracted to me and want to have sex with others, even though I'm ok with being casual. (Ok, ok...scorps can never be casual. Maybe he's doing me a favour) How can one be like that?
3-I want to have control!!!!!!! Yes I admit, I want to have control...and because we see each other once a week or so, if I have time, I don't say no. But then its all on his terms, which makes me insecure. I want to feel like he doesn't take me for granted!
4-Last of all, when we ARE together, we have a really great time, and sex is like 15-20% of it. He's taught me a great deal about "live and let live", freedom, giving someone space etc...But my ego's here, I want him to be crazy about me. Why does it feel like he's less into me because he doesn't want exclusivity?
Why is it? Do you guys get how I feel? Has anyone felt this way...happy and free, yet insecure (or something)? How can one share physical stuff, and appear not to care?
PS: I don't want a relationship either...but his attitude is a bit too relaxed for me. How can someone be like that?
PPS: the sex is ok, but not mindblowing yet. I thought he'd be more of an animal in bed. He's very vanilla. Is he emasculated by my intense Scorpio sexuality? Anyone been in such a situation?
I dont want him to control stuff...but he somehow did by setting the terms. How can I be more in control?
He always makes the plans, decides when we get together...etc. And because its casual I can't say much. I'm an amateur in these things.
Yes Archer...I am glad he was honest about it. I really admire that about him.
I guess I want to feel more in control of things, I feel like he calls when he wants to, is super friendly while at it...and then walks away to his life. I want to feel like he doesn't take me for granted.
I guess I was just sharing, and wondering how someone can be that way. What satisfaction does he get out of a half-ass thing like this? Like I said, I am aware it's my ego too. I did agree to his terms.
Forget it, I was just pouring out some feelings there. I'm ok. I just don't understand in general how people can be so detached.
I guess I want to feel more in control of things, I feel like he calls when he wants to, is super friendly while at it...and then walks away to his life. I want to feel like he doesn't take me for granted.
I guess I was just sharing, and wondering how someone can be that way. What satisfaction does he get out of a half-ass thing like this? Like I said, I am aware it's my ego too. I did agree to his terms.
Forget it, I was just pouring out some feelings there. I'm ok. I just don't understand in general how people can be so detached.
Sagittauries,
I'm just trying this out. I don't think I want a relationship. But I've also never been in such an open/casual relationship. I just want to feel special. I want to feel like I call the shots too, as much as him. And yet I feel needy, and I hate it
I want to be cool and detached like him.
I think a Scorpio might understand what that's like.
I'm just trying this out. I don't think I want a relationship. But I've also never been in such an open/casual relationship. I just want to feel special. I want to feel like I call the shots too, as much as him. And yet I feel needy, and I hate it
I want to be cool and detached like him.I think a Scorpio might understand what that's like.
Archer...he does give me space and all the freedom in the world, yes.
Sag...what is a nookie?
Depthcharge--I think you're right. But I DONT want to grow emotional attachment to him. Its just my personality. I care for everyone who comes into my life, which makes me vulnerable. Just dont know how to deal with it better.
Leokitten, you're quite harsh. I see/sleep with him cuz I want to. I won't defend that. Just being honest and open here!
Sag...what is a nookie?
Depthcharge--I think you're right. But I DONT want to grow emotional attachment to him. Its just my personality. I care for everyone who comes into my life, which makes me vulnerable. Just dont know how to deal with it better.
Leokitten, you're quite harsh. I see/sleep with him cuz I want to. I won't defend that. Just being honest and open here!
Ok Archer now that made sense. He did say that his dad was a jerk and he didnt want to be that way. (his dad cheated, lied etc) I DO feel respected. He has always been honest and I appreciate that. SO many other men had lied, even with the best of intentions. And thats the worst feeling: to feel lied to. So he also always picks up the phone when I call. Which is nice. Thanks for that comment. It finally made some sense. The way someone like him works (so diferent than me).
Leokitten: I dont do everything he wants. But we get together so seldom that there's hardly any time. This is where it gets complex. Emotions I dont understand myself. Feeling vulnerable despite the clarity. Feeling vulnerable even though I dont want a relationship myself.
So to make it clear: if it had been me saying "lets date others" I would have been ok with it. Because he said it, my pride is getting in the way. Does that make sense? This is stuff not everyone would admit. They're my deepest, most honest emotions.
Leokitten: I dont do everything he wants. But we get together so seldom that there's hardly any time. This is where it gets complex. Emotions I dont understand myself. Feeling vulnerable despite the clarity. Feeling vulnerable even though I dont want a relationship myself.
So to make it clear: if it had been me saying "lets date others" I would have been ok with it. Because he said it, my pride is getting in the way. Does that make sense? This is stuff not everyone would admit. They're my deepest, most honest emotions.
Depthcharge...Thank you so much for caring. It means alot.
What is it that would be ideal? Good question. I guess I dont feel like I can call him when i want (I totally can, but I feel clingy--not because of him but more because of me), or that I feel empowered from this whole thing. I dont feel the "freedom" as much as he does. But I WANT TO! I want to enjoy and be casual, and see him as he comes. this is exactly what I want.
Here's the funny thing: This whole thing obviously is for someone strong. And the confidence it requires is getting clearer and clearer. Not easy. I dont like being confronted with the fact that I feel insecure.
And its not just me. In determining the times we see each other, he appears to be firm and decisive (taking more initiative), but in bed...he's not confident at all actually. Almost to the point of not being open to learn from me, and even shame about his performance. There's a weird power dynamic there.
So to make matters more complex, he doesn't have all the control.
What is it that would be ideal? Good question. I guess I dont feel like I can call him when i want (I totally can, but I feel clingy--not because of him but more because of me), or that I feel empowered from this whole thing. I dont feel the "freedom" as much as he does. But I WANT TO! I want to enjoy and be casual, and see him as he comes. this is exactly what I want.
Here's the funny thing: This whole thing obviously is for someone strong. And the confidence it requires is getting clearer and clearer. Not easy. I dont like being confronted with the fact that I feel insecure.
And its not just me. In determining the times we see each other, he appears to be firm and decisive (taking more initiative), but in bed...he's not confident at all actually. Almost to the point of not being open to learn from me, and even shame about his performance. There's a weird power dynamic there.
So to make matters more complex, he doesn't have all the control.
Depthcharge: you think? All I know is that I need to learn to be more independent and I feel like he can teach me that (just by being the way he is).
But your comment is interesting. Aren't there tons and millions of people out there, having casual sex and not getting attached? Especially men NOT getting attached, and women getting attached by default? Isn't that the majority of people, in fact?
My thing here is that I'm still exploring. I am not sure if I can stay in for too long. So far, so good. But I do question things the way I am now.
I feel like I can keep things separate in bed, but still...its an interesting relationship. He says its his first casual one too. And I don't think he's out there getting laid every night he's not with me. He just wants to have the option.
One night, just for fun I called him and told him all the things I'd do to him in bed...and he wasn't turned on--he was at best uncomfortable. He seems uncomfortable with his sexuality. And sexuality is my forte, I guess.
So there is some kind of balance then. Hmmm........
But your comment is interesting. Aren't there tons and millions of people out there, having casual sex and not getting attached? Especially men NOT getting attached, and women getting attached by default? Isn't that the majority of people, in fact?
My thing here is that I'm still exploring. I am not sure if I can stay in for too long. So far, so good. But I do question things the way I am now.
I feel like I can keep things separate in bed, but still...its an interesting relationship. He says its his first casual one too. And I don't think he's out there getting laid every night he's not with me. He just wants to have the option.
One night, just for fun I called him and told him all the things I'd do to him in bed...and he wasn't turned on--he was at best uncomfortable. He seems uncomfortable with his sexuality. And sexuality is my forte, I guess.
So there is some kind of balance then. Hmmm........
Hmmmmm interesting posts!
"If you have needs, then you have to work out how important they are to you .. and act, or think to yourself that in the overall scale of things .. you can live with 'a little insecurity' and carry on.
I get the feeling though, that if you were there .. you wouldn't be posting huh."
You're not entirely wrong there. See, there are days I feel completely ok and then days I feel insecure--all almost not dependent on him. I'm close to being "there" though.
Its complex stuff, to agree to an arrangement like this and then go on with life. I don't want to be the attached one. Who knows, maybe he will get attached? I have the advantage of age here...Not that it is a competition.
"If you have needs, then you have to work out how important they are to you .. and act, or think to yourself that in the overall scale of things .. you can live with 'a little insecurity' and carry on.
I get the feeling though, that if you were there .. you wouldn't be posting huh."
You're not entirely wrong there. See, there are days I feel completely ok and then days I feel insecure--all almost not dependent on him. I'm close to being "there" though.
Its complex stuff, to agree to an arrangement like this and then go on with life. I don't want to be the attached one. Who knows, maybe he will get attached? I have the advantage of age here...Not that it is a competition.
"you have to realize that you are asking a lot from this person.
you want to control them, but you don't want to be exclusive.
you want the sex, but you don't want the relationship...
personally, i'd tell you to get lost."
Wait!! I wanted to be exclusive and HE didnt.
I want the sex but so does he. He actually said he wanted "friendship with sex"
these are all things he wants too...what's the issue here? I'm telling you my ego-desires and inner conflicts, don't take it all as face value!
you want to control them, but you don't want to be exclusive.
you want the sex, but you don't want the relationship...
personally, i'd tell you to get lost."
Wait!! I wanted to be exclusive and HE didnt.
I want the sex but so does he. He actually said he wanted "friendship with sex"
these are all things he wants too...what's the issue here? I'm telling you my ego-desires and inner conflicts, don't take it all as face value!
SAG: He said he wanted a casual/open relationship with sex...And that he'd like to have the freedom to pick up if he wanted to (not that he does) Of course its not pity sex. Its quite passionate.
I agree with the attachment thing. I dont get it. I'm putting it out there: are there pp who dont get attached? Men seem better at not attaching, am I wrong?
I agree with the attachment thing. I dont get it. I'm putting it out there: are there pp who dont get attached? Men seem better at not attaching, am I wrong?
Tell me where its not matching and I'll explain.
I understand how it can seem confusing. You're right, I don't want a relationship. This is all in my head, because I dont even need to assert my independence from him. We're already independent. He probably doesnt even view me that way. Its all in my head. Which is what's so f-ed up.
Maybe I let my thoughts wander off too much. Maybe my ego's bruised because at the beginning, he pursued me big time...and then all of a sudden said he doesnt want a relationship and then when I call him and try to make plans, its always at late hours and he comes later than I'd like him to. He has so much going on in his life, it feels like I come last. And I have a busy life too, but its pride/ego. This is a confession: I want to be the one making him feel rejected sometimes.
He should come last in my schedule too I guess. Women suck, because girlfriends make it hard by constantly asking "sooooo........how is it with XX??".
Maybe I let my thoughts wander off too much. Maybe my ego's bruised because at the beginning, he pursued me big time...and then all of a sudden said he doesnt want a relationship and then when I call him and try to make plans, its always at late hours and he comes later than I'd like him to. He has so much going on in his life, it feels like I come last. And I have a busy life too, but its pride/ego. This is a confession: I want to be the one making him feel rejected sometimes.
He should come last in my schedule too I guess. Women suck, because girlfriends make it hard by constantly asking "sooooo........how is it with XX??".
"it also sounds like you have issues with his care-free demeanor... and that's not gonna be good for anyone. what do you plan on doing with him once you have control?"
I'm not mad at him for that SAG, its something I admire. It's just something I don't understand. Its fascinating in a way. I almost resent for not being able to be so carefree myself.
Once I had control? I wouldnt lie to him, or hurt him...I guess I'd just feel more in power and safe, so to speak. Not as vulnerable. I am quite capable of being emotional too.
I'm not mad at him for that SAG, its something I admire. It's just something I don't understand. Its fascinating in a way. I almost resent for not being able to be so carefree myself.
Once I had control? I wouldnt lie to him, or hurt him...I guess I'd just feel more in power and safe, so to speak. Not as vulnerable. I am quite capable of being emotional too.
Ok Sag, I dont think you get me. I'm not making up anything. I'm not lying.
Yes, I know all these things don't make sense. Thats why I am here babbling trying to bounce off ideas from others. I'm saying logic is one thing, pride and ego makes one feel other things that one shouldn't, based on an agreement.
If you dont understand, then its ok.
Yes, I know all these things don't make sense. Thats why I am here babbling trying to bounce off ideas from others. I'm saying logic is one thing, pride and ego makes one feel other things that one shouldn't, based on an agreement.
If you dont understand, then its ok.
Ok--it wont do anyone any good. True. He's not even trying to make me feel rejected. I know! I know it doesnt make sense.
DepthCharge understood me.
Thanks, guys, for your compassion(!)
But your responses still taught me something. It really did. I just hope none of you feel the way I do.
But your responses still taught me something. It really did. I just hope none of you feel the way I do.
Sag, you're right. I can shift my perspective.
Leokitten, you don't need to post if all you're going to do is judge. That's not helpful at all.
Leokitten, you don't need to post if all you're going to do is judge. That's not helpful at all.
Yes I said opinions welcome, but still...I explain that I feel vulnerable and then I felt even more shot down with some really harsh comments.
Sure sarcasm isnt the best way to go. And I acknowledge some good points made. I was challenged and I had to re-think my ways. I still am. Plus its hard for anyone to understand exactly what someone else's state of mind is over the net.
But I dont appreciate being accused of lying or making this whole thing up.
Sure sarcasm isnt the best way to go. And I acknowledge some good points made. I was challenged and I had to re-think my ways. I still am. Plus its hard for anyone to understand exactly what someone else's state of mind is over the net.
But I dont appreciate being accused of lying or making this whole thing up.
Leokitten, normally I wouldnt respond to someone like you...but I must ask, why are YOU so pissed and getting so worked up over my issue? You're by no means objective about this. It seems to me that you're uncomfortable with emotions and vulnerability in general, so seeing mine triggers something in you. Maybe you decided a long time ago that you'd never be vulnerable/emotional again. Good for you: just not everyone's same. (PS: If you can't see your rudeness, then we don't need to point it out.)
For the record. He is not using me. That's not why I'm here. I'm just talking about my emotions. To people who have something to offer other than hostility. I won't respond to you again.
Archer, thank you.
For the record. He is not using me. That's not why I'm here. I'm just talking about my emotions. To people who have something to offer other than hostility. I won't respond to you again.
Archer, thank you.
No, just disrespectful and rude comments aren't desired. Truthful and logical are ok. I didn't protest against anyone else.
And everyone gets caught up in drama sometimes, its just so weird to see how people react to the dark side. As if we all have to be perfect and collected at all times. We all have a less desirable, dark side. All of us.
I'm fine. You guys brought me tons of clarity.
And everyone gets caught up in drama sometimes, its just so weird to see how people react to the dark side. As if we all have to be perfect and collected at all times. We all have a less desirable, dark side. All of us.
I'm fine. You guys brought me tons of clarity.
Yes, Sagit. you're right, i dont have a dilemma, I am an adult...all i wanted to do was to share ideas and maybe see if anyone else was in a similar situation.
I'm not self-deluded. What it is is clear: we don't lie to each other. And someone can choose to be in a casual relationship if that's what they want. We may not always be able to be in a committed relationship. I'm not whining about that either.
I was saying that despite the fact that there's full honesty and clarity as to where we stand, and despite the fact that I want it to be casual too, why do I feel certain things? Things that I shouldn't feel. (Not feelings towards him) More like fears coming up, insecurities. His come up too, by the way.
Maybe it's too subjective, so its ok. I appreciate everyone's words, except unkind ones.
I'm not self-deluded. What it is is clear: we don't lie to each other. And someone can choose to be in a casual relationship if that's what they want. We may not always be able to be in a committed relationship. I'm not whining about that either.
I was saying that despite the fact that there's full honesty and clarity as to where we stand, and despite the fact that I want it to be casual too, why do I feel certain things? Things that I shouldn't feel. (Not feelings towards him) More like fears coming up, insecurities. His come up too, by the way.
Maybe it's too subjective, so its ok. I appreciate everyone's words, except unkind ones.
I actually did go on a date with another guy, yes. But I dont have tons of time to date tons of guys either. I know the option is there.
Ok saG, now its making some sense. So Sags, they're crazy? You either accept them or no? ok...I can get that.
What do you mean by they do things to prove an opposite point?
Scrapings of a relationship...it never was one. But he did act as if it could be one at the beginning, until he realized he didnt want one in his life right now.
I still think we speak a different language, somewhat. I'm aware that its all my life and my choices.
Ok saG, now its making some sense. So Sags, they're crazy? You either accept them or no? ok...I can get that.
What do you mean by they do things to prove an opposite point?
Scrapings of a relationship...it never was one. But he did act as if it could be one at the beginning, until he realized he didnt want one in his life right now.
I still think we speak a different language, somewhat. I'm aware that its all my life and my choices.
BTW, the days of our lives thing was quite funny
Well we're not in a relationship...and if I wanted to, I'd sleep with others too. As long as I don't know who he's sleeping with...I'm not "ok" with it but I accept it as part of the deal. Its only fair.
See, if he didn't, then the boundaries would be weird. Then we'd both think we're in a relationship while we aren't. (If we slept only with each other and knew it) At least I would get those boundaries confused.
See, if he didn't, then the boundaries would be weird. Then we'd both think we're in a relationship while we aren't. (If we slept only with each other and knew it) At least I would get those boundaries confused.
...and its my first time trying a casual relationship. I find its very honest in so many ways, more than other situations I've been in the last 2 years.
But its not a piece of cake, not 100% easy, I guess. Any of you been in one? Where it was honest?
But its not a piece of cake, not 100% easy, I guess. Any of you been in one? Where it was honest?
Well we're safe. But yeah I think thats where my pride is kicking in too.
He's not really someone who gets laid all the time, he just doesnt want to be tied down with a commitment.
And I know I dont want to sleep with multiple people. By default, women don't seem to need to.
He's not really someone who gets laid all the time, he just doesnt want to be tied down with a commitment.
And I know I dont want to sleep with multiple people. By default, women don't seem to need to.
I have, a few times leokitten...I have. But we get together once a week or even once in 1,5 weeks or so. So when his suggestion works with me, I don't "play games" and say no. It does feel like it ends up being the most convenient time for him...Although its a convenient time for me too.
He's cancelled once or twice, and been late to my place (giving me no time). Maybe thats what pisses me off.
He's cancelled once or twice, and been late to my place (giving me no time). Maybe thats what pisses me off.
Sagit, how would I give myself more emotional security?
Btw, I just realized you're a girl.
Btw, I just realized you're a girl.
You're right leokitten...what is my issue. There should be none. A lot of the time, I'm ok with it. There isn't really an issue.
I know my moon...and rising. My rising's leo and my moon's capricorn.
Yes, if you knew scorpio well...you'd know that they need control in relationships to feel safe. They look harsh and manipulative, but they're so emotional and vulnerable inside, which is why they need that control.
Wait...I thought you were a Sag/Scorp cusp? or was that Archer?
Yes, if you knew scorpio well...you'd know that they need control in relationships to feel safe. They look harsh and manipulative, but they're so emotional and vulnerable inside, which is why they need that control.
Wait...I thought you were a Sag/Scorp cusp? or was that Archer?
Ok I'm stopping now. Thanks everyone. I guess I provoked quite a bit here.
I'm not as messed up as it seems here. Thanks for all the comments.
I'm not as messed up as it seems here. Thanks for all the comments.
I wasnt looking for attention, I was looking for genuine conversation and exchange.
I did...so thanks.
What?? I don't get that.
hmmm still don't get it
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