Have I completely lost Taurus male?
Bullet points because the story is long... -known bull 6 months -he was reluctant at first to start anything (after...
This topic was created in the Taurus forum by scorpchick76 on Thursday, April 25, 2013 and has 138 replies.
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Thanks for all the advice guys... For now I'm going to keep the letter to myself... I'm just going to do me, be happy and present in each moment. In two weeks when we go away I will see how we are and I think separation from the 'real world' might help us connect better especially as we are heading to see his family. I think he does want me and to love me but he doesn't know how. I touched a part if his heart in such a way that he freaked out and slammed the door. I can only remain consistent with him and see how it plays out. If he does jump at those other girls then it would have happened anyway and he has to go through his own journey in life. I'll continue to enjoy the moments we do spend and perhaps his feeling if my going off and doing my own things will spark him to wonder what he's missing. Directly addressing the issue hasn't helped in the past so perhaps I can get through in the passive route. If its not enough well then we were already doomed anyway.
I can continue to live him and maybe one day he is whole enough in himself to realize he deserves to be lived and will realize I've been here all along. I'm not hoping or waiting at all just letting life play out without trying to control it. Whatever will be will be as long as I continue to be true to myself.
I can continue to live him and maybe one day he is whole enough in himself to realize he deserves to be lived and will realize I've been here all along. I'm not hoping or waiting at all just letting life play out without trying to control it. Whatever will be will be as long as I continue to be true to myself.
Thanks for all the advice guys... For now I'm going to keep the letter to myself... I'm just going to do me, be happy and present in each moment.
>>>I respect your decision but I also think it sucks. Even the scorps are telling you to share it. Taurus is ruled by Venus; that letter very *strongly* conveys your love for him and it *will* resonate strongly with him. Look, I have his same Venus and choked up reading it. Then I choked up a little while later *thinking* about how I choked up reading it. At least one of my Venusian Geminis fell in love with you a little bit while reading that...lol. Don't be stubborn. And don't let fear or pride (or whatever it is) keep you from expressing the deepest most vulnerable part of your self; it is when you are most powerful...You keep talking about being true to your self. Your true self is not happy and present in each moment (that's your ideal self). Your true self has given alot, needs acknowledgement and reciprocation, and is deeply wounded by his behavior. The letter conveys that perfectly. Again, I respect your decision though
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good luck on the vacay thing...
>>>I respect your decision but I also think it sucks. Even the scorps are telling you to share it. Taurus is ruled by Venus; that letter very *strongly* conveys your love for him and it *will* resonate strongly with him. Look, I have his same Venus and choked up reading it. Then I choked up a little while later *thinking* about how I choked up reading it. At least one of my Venusian Geminis fell in love with you a little bit while reading that...lol. Don't be stubborn. And don't let fear or pride (or whatever it is) keep you from expressing the deepest most vulnerable part of your self; it is when you are most powerful...You keep talking about being true to your self. Your true self is not happy and present in each moment (that's your ideal self). Your true self has given alot, needs acknowledgement and reciprocation, and is deeply wounded by his behavior. The letter conveys that perfectly. Again, I respect your decision though
. good luck on the vacay thing...
Posted by ErisPosted by TaurusLovesScorpio
I am mystified by that, too. The more I read the more I am intrigued by her... She really is dealing with it really well.. especially since he is living under the same roof. Although, she is writing lots of it down. I started doing that recently and realized that all the problems I have been talking to my Bull about are NOT problems I have with him, they are problems I have with me. I also found that if I write letters to him I can decipher which problems are important or insecurities about my own self. I always burn the letters, but it does feel better not keeping that crap in. But if I were her I would give him that letter. I wish I could write like that, then I wouldn`t burn them lol
The Bull I was with before: No pass. He would have had it in a friend way (and maybe someday possibly more), but he was way too pushy The Bull now? I have never let ANYONE in like him. Total pass (as much as a unevolved Scorpio is able to give, anyway)
>>>I read a couple different scorp boards; you are the first one I've seen refer to themself as "unevolved". I wondered if all scorps thought they were Eagles or Phoenixes or whatever....Sounds like you are well on your way to becoming self-reflective and non-judgmental. Some kind of journaling like this (which I guess these boards are good for also) would seem to really benefit most scorps as you guys seem to have a *ton* of complex thoughts revolving around the relationships you're in. In talking to a scorp friend I'm amazed at the angles she comes up, and how she even has the energy to think about her relationship this much. I think scorps err on the side of over-complicating explanations and analysis whereas bulls err on the side of over-simiplifying.click to expand
I think a part of my reticence of giving him the letter is that I'm not ready to let go... There is fear there. I have 3 weeks of cherishing the things we do without reservation but with pure joy - like having three weeks to live. I don't wantvto upset this balance we have found with the letter. Are things different between us right now? Definitely but they are not mean or hostile in any way, they are just as they are. Life. I'd rather have these times of mediocrity with moments of brilliance than to have it all crash down by giving him the letter.
I think I might share it with him in a quiet moment when we are alone on the other side if the country but with a positive focus as Robyn said, without any of the blame because we are all too busy just being humans to live in the past and to be buried under for our mistakes - we all make them so I say live and learn but mostly just live this moment.
I think I might share it with him in a quiet moment when we are alone on the other side if the country but with a positive focus as Robyn said, without any of the blame because we are all too busy just being humans to live in the past and to be buried under for our mistakes - we all make them so I say live and learn but mostly just live this moment.
Posted by Eris
Unbulleavable, you are really pretty!
Thank you, Eris. (
``>>>I read a couple different scorp boards; you are the first one I've seen refer to themself as "unevolved". I wondered if all scorps thought they were Eagles or Phoenixes or whatever....Sounds like you are well on your way to becoming self-reflective and non-judgmental. Some kind of journaling like this (which I guess these boards are good for also) would seem to really benefit most scorps as you guys seem to have a *ton* of complex thoughts revolving around the relationships you're in. In talking to a scorp friend I'm amazed at the angles she comes up, and how she even has the energy to think about her relationship this much. I think scorps err on the side of over-complicating explanations and analysis whereas bulls err on the side of over-simiplifying.``
Well, thank you this was really nice to hear. And you are right about Scorps over-complicating and Bulls over-simplifying.
Well, thank you this was really nice to hear. And you are right about Scorps over-complicating and Bulls over-simplifying.
Posted by unbulleaveablePosted by Eris
Unbulleavable, you are really pretty!
Thank you, Eris. (
I`m working at giving them out... lol
fishtail(question mark)click to expand
Oops... YW! lol
Ah life is a funny thing...
Been doing much of my own thing this week and have pulled back from fawning all over the Taurus like I realized (unknowingly at the time) I was doing. He was a bit distant since Sunday though I continued to do my own thing and keep him involved but not as smothering as I was and last night when I got home he basically followed me around like a lost puppy in the house.
I was sitting on the living room floor to write and he just sat on the couch and played some game on his phone then he asked if I wanted to go get some food somewhere and I told him to give me 20-30 minutes so he grabbed his guitar and while he started to play in the other room soon enough he was in the same space as me. I found this amusing really but I'm still also unsure of what comes next - perhaps this is him pulling back just to see how I react? That subconscious test?
We grabbed some food out and he copied my order and then we walked home and spent a bit of time doing our own things. I was writing which I've really needed to do lately and wrote something that I hope he can put music too - I gave him the words (I'll post separately). When we went to bed he was again quite cuddly, I mean way more than the past few nights, completely wrapped up in me and for most of the night as well. Seems like we're getting back to where we were but I'm not sure - no idea what's going on in his head but when I stop asking I find out so much more.
Been doing much of my own thing this week and have pulled back from fawning all over the Taurus like I realized (unknowingly at the time) I was doing. He was a bit distant since Sunday though I continued to do my own thing and keep him involved but not as smothering as I was and last night when I got home he basically followed me around like a lost puppy in the house.
I was sitting on the living room floor to write and he just sat on the couch and played some game on his phone then he asked if I wanted to go get some food somewhere and I told him to give me 20-30 minutes so he grabbed his guitar and while he started to play in the other room soon enough he was in the same space as me. I found this amusing really but I'm still also unsure of what comes next - perhaps this is him pulling back just to see how I react? That subconscious test?
We grabbed some food out and he copied my order and then we walked home and spent a bit of time doing our own things. I was writing which I've really needed to do lately and wrote something that I hope he can put music too - I gave him the words (I'll post separately). When we went to bed he was again quite cuddly, I mean way more than the past few nights, completely wrapped up in me and for most of the night as well. Seems like we're getting back to where we were but I'm not sure - no idea what's going on in his head but when I stop asking I find out so much more.
I will possibly give him the other letter in time but for now this is what I shared with him.... I like that it almost has a double meaning but ultimately in my mind it's about his grandfather who is fading away...
fading summer, long winter closing in
the end of our days draw near
be guided by your heart now
relinquish your darkest fears
walk away just walk away
find peace in all your memories
deep within your soul
wrap your arms tight around me
once more before you go
walk away just walk away
off to find your sunshine
chasing rainbows in the sky
a slow dance into darkness
and I'm left here asking why
slip away slowly slip away
as the weight of the sadness dissipates
we'll all find our way
our own way
fading summer, long winter closing in
the end of our days draw near
be guided by your heart now
relinquish your darkest fears
walk away just walk away
find peace in all your memories
deep within your soul
wrap your arms tight around me
once more before you go
walk away just walk away
off to find your sunshine
chasing rainbows in the sky
a slow dance into darkness
and I'm left here asking why
slip away slowly slip away
as the weight of the sadness dissipates
we'll all find our way
our own way
I got some response on those words. He saw them as being a reflection of where he and I are. I asked him from whose perspective and he said maybe ours, shared.
Is there any salvaging the us we were if the taurus has doubts already? I know how stubborn he can be. Any approach for me to take or just let him go even though I want to fight for us...
Is there any salvaging the us we were if the taurus has doubts already? I know how stubborn he can be. Any approach for me to take or just let him go even though I want to fight for us...
scorp: We grabbed some food out and he copied my order and then we walked home and spent a bit of time doing our own things.
>>>Hahaha...he copied your order? I copy my scorp crush at work alot; she copies me alot also. When she's doing he mirroring, if I am talking to someone joking around, she will do the same with someone. If I go talk to my manager, she goes and talks to her's; its amazing how IMMEDIATE and detailed the copying is. I like how she walks real proud with her head high, so I kinda hold my head higher when I walk now. She seems fearless and I admire that and try to emulate it. Also, she is like the rare girl that I would describe as "cool". She just has a coolness about her that's hard to put into words. I like her style /taste alot. I also tend to wear colors she wears. I find it strange how she only wears a few outfits in a few colors, all of which she looks great in - black, burgundy, pink, and this sea foam color.
scorp: I was writing which I've really needed to do lately and wrote something that I hope he can put music too - I gave him the words (I'll post separately). When we went to bed he was again quite cuddly, I mean way more than the past few nights, completely wrapped up in me and for most of the night as well. Seems like we're getting back to where we were but I'm not sure - no idea what's going on in his head but when I stop asking I find out so much more.
>>>I think, almost always, if you pull back on a bull, he will cling tighter. We hate emotional pain. Alot of male bulls I know resort to alcohol and opiates to deal with emotional pain. I've had the problem myself in the past (opiates). And feeling this overwhelmingly intense/unique desire I have felt for this scorp woman opened me up in ways I have never experienced; I did relapse for a minute to deal witht he pain of knowing I can't be with her. Feels worse than how I felt after divorce in a marriage of 7 yrs, which is actually very insane.
Your writing, again, is beautiful. Every scorp I know writes amazing poetry. I write and regularly share with my male scorp friends. This was very sad though. And I couldn't read it without seeing it primarily as expressive of your situation with him.
Going to be very blunt here - I think you are (maybe unknowingly) playing games though. Because you shared that with him, somewhat seemingly aware of the hidden message, and if I were him and I read that? It would steal my hope...and I would pull back for sure (!), whereas your more vulnerable writing shares your true feelings and reveals your heart and would draw me in. I would pull back because it would terrify me to read that. The song conveys that *you* have doubts....Actually no - it conveys that you have almost a certainty that this is over and you two will not work and are almost destined to part ways. And then you are PUZZLED that he has doubts? You want to fight but the message you are conveying is your strength to survive without him, not your strength to fight for him. The strength to fight for him would be in you being vulnerable to share your real feelings. And this is what would change him. The strength you are flexing in this writing, whether or not you realize that's what you're doing, is just going to cause him to flex his own strength and withdraw like he did in his verbal response. And this is the scorp/taurus power struggle, though neither may consciously be aware of it. It is more about protection of self in my experience than anything. One of you needs the real strength to sacrifice ego/self, risk hurt, and let the real love break through. I think it should be you because you're more mature/self-aware.
Going to be very blunt here - I think you are (maybe unknowingly) playing games though. Because you shared that with him, somewhat seemingly aware of the hidden message, and if I were him and I read that? It would steal my hope...and I would pull back for sure (!), whereas your more vulnerable writing shares your true feelings and reveals your heart and would draw me in. I would pull back because it would terrify me to read that. The song conveys that *you* have doubts....Actually no - it conveys that you have almost a certainty that this is over and you two will not work and are almost destined to part ways. And then you are PUZZLED that he has doubts? You want to fight but the message you are conveying is your strength to survive without him, not your strength to fight for him. The strength to fight for him would be in you being vulnerable to share your real feelings. And this is what would change him. The strength you are flexing in this writing, whether or not you realize that's what you're doing, is just going to cause him to flex his own strength and withdraw like he did in his verbal response. And this is the scorp/taurus power struggle, though neither may consciously be aware of it. It is more about protection of self in my experience than anything. One of you needs the real strength to sacrifice ego/self, risk hurt, and let the real love break through. I think it should be you because you're more mature/self-aware.
Not sure if any of this will make sense but....
Vulnerability (seemingly one of the scorp's worst fears) is real power IMO. Just to give a very simple example - I was an extremely bad/stubborn child and had some crazy stuff happen as a kid. As a result I was constantly in power struggles with my mother. We would verbally abuse each other beyond anything I've ever seen between parent/child. Both destroying each other, telling one another regularly and in detail how much we hated each other, etc. What she said, I would return double, and vice versa. It was all in defense on the part of both of us. Once in a very long while something so hurtful I'd say would break through my mother's armor, and she'd cry or show hurt. She would lock herself in her room and hide immediately. In her immaturity at that time, she saw her vulnerability as letting me win. It was actually what changed me most though. It was during that time that I saw, not an opponent or someone escalating/reciprocating the hurt (to which I'd respond likewise), but the real truth of what my words were doing to her. It activated my love for her and turned me around completely when it happened. And my response was what she wanted. To her it *felt* weak to act like this, and to counter-attack *felt* powerful. But truly the most powerful thing to change me (what she wanted) was accomplished by her vulnerability.
In your situation, if you're vulnerable with your bull, I feel it will activate his passion for and protectiveness of you. You're practicing war and not love IMO still; you're channeling Mars but the bull will respond to Venus. You're following Sun Tzu and pretending to be strong when you are weak. Rather than protect your self, sacrifice your pride/ego for him and reveal your hurt, so he can see the *truth*. He'll remember how he feels for you. The truth is real power. Love is real power. Sorry if that sounds preachy....just one bull's opinion....
Vulnerability (seemingly one of the scorp's worst fears) is real power IMO. Just to give a very simple example - I was an extremely bad/stubborn child and had some crazy stuff happen as a kid. As a result I was constantly in power struggles with my mother. We would verbally abuse each other beyond anything I've ever seen between parent/child. Both destroying each other, telling one another regularly and in detail how much we hated each other, etc. What she said, I would return double, and vice versa. It was all in defense on the part of both of us. Once in a very long while something so hurtful I'd say would break through my mother's armor, and she'd cry or show hurt. She would lock herself in her room and hide immediately. In her immaturity at that time, she saw her vulnerability as letting me win. It was actually what changed me most though. It was during that time that I saw, not an opponent or someone escalating/reciprocating the hurt (to which I'd respond likewise), but the real truth of what my words were doing to her. It activated my love for her and turned me around completely when it happened. And my response was what she wanted. To her it *felt* weak to act like this, and to counter-attack *felt* powerful. But truly the most powerful thing to change me (what she wanted) was accomplished by her vulnerability.
In your situation, if you're vulnerable with your bull, I feel it will activate his passion for and protectiveness of you. You're practicing war and not love IMO still; you're channeling Mars but the bull will respond to Venus. You're following Sun Tzu and pretending to be strong when you are weak. Rather than protect your self, sacrifice your pride/ego for him and reveal your hurt, so he can see the *truth*. He'll remember how he feels for you. The truth is real power. Love is real power. Sorry if that sounds preachy....just one bull's opinion....
TLS... The taurus and I are going to talk tonight- we were on the phone at lunch. I'm going to tell him I love him and that I don't want to let him go but feel that fighting to hold on for the past few months hasn't worked. From your advice above I think I'll read him the letter noting how I haven't given it to him because I really don't want to let go, I want him and I to fight for us together. I'll then just listen to him and where he is at... While I'd like to be optimistic and hope for the reaction you said you'd give TLS in my heart I believe his decision was made long ago...
Is telling him I love him not already a sign of vulnerability?
Is telling him I love him not already a sign of vulnerability?
I've also told him I'm afraid of losing us but in the heat of the moment perhaps I wasn't heard?
Posted by scorpchick76
Is telling him I love him not already a sign of vulnerability?
I think it is for sure. And I wish you the best. Let us know how it goes.
So then I don't have too much more hope... I've shown him my love and my tears and we are still in this place so it might already be over in his eyes... I'm stuck!!
Posted by scorpchick76
So then I don't have too much more hope... I've shown him my love and my tears and we are still in this place so it might already be over in his eyes... I'm stuck!!
Saying I love you, and baring your soul like you do in the letter, are in different categories entirely though. I think you're just experiencing scorp paranoia. I don't think its anywhere near over with him. Taurus is a creature of comfort and in my experience it takes a LOT for a male taurus to want out of a relationship they've already decided was worth it. Sounds to me like he's still very attached, despite his shadiness with the harem. I agree that "I'm stuck!!!" is a good way to describe the Taurus/Scorp romance though...hahahahah....
Ok... I'm going to share the amended letter tonight before anything but read it to him calmly. At the core though it says the same as the lyrics, that I'm walking away only it's gentler. How will that change his mind on fixing us? Fighting for us? Together?
Posted by scorpchick76
Ok... I'm going to share the amended letter tonight before anything but read it to him calmly. At the core though it says the same as the lyrics, that I'm walking away only it's gentler. How will that change his mind on fixing us? Fighting for us? Together?
Its not just that it is more gentle. The song is like basically *telling* him to be on his way (over and over), you'll be sad but you'll get over it, its meant to end, etc. With a Mars and Saturn in Leo (both of which I have also), I think this could hurt his pride or almost sound like rejection. The letter really is just much more expressive - sharing so much more of your feeling, your intuition about his character, even praise for his good qualities (Leo's purring), and your passion for him - all in a very artistic manner (Gemini in Venus stimulated, touched, and greatly impressed all at once. This equals *attraction* to us). He'll appreciate it on a number of levels IMO. Its more of the whole truth. IMO, it will change his mind by moving his heart more, inspire him to fight for you as he will be protective of your vulnerability.
Really you have nothing to lose with what your intuition is telling you about the trajectory of things already. A couple weeks time with him if it doesnt' go over well? Eh. If this kind of baring of your soul doesn't go over well with him, at least you have the clarity to know nothing is going to move him and he's just not the one -- really because he's not worthy of you.
Posted by scorpchick76
I have stated to him that our relationship will look different when we return from our trip but haven't defined explicitly how though have realized that he's not as actively pursuing a new place to live anymore though I do believe his 'negative' friend still reminds him of the fact that I'm not right for him. What should I do? Anything? Anyway to turn his focus that's drifted back onto me? I cant tell him to stay away from these other girl-friends as that would push him right back to them (especially since he finds his self-worth there in them)
So how do i shift the dynamic back to him and I and maybe even us? don't get me wrong, I've given up on the expectation if an us that's not to say I don't want it (there is or at least was a lot if good) and so I'd like to try to get back to that. Any thoughts? Stop pursuing him and making his life easy? Let him keep coming to me? How would this resonate in day to day activities?
It all seems like game playing in some form but also seems to be the only way?
Clumsy thumbs...okay, I'll try again.
Game playing? No. Manipulative? Yes. The very fact that you felt the need to state that "our relationship will look different when we return from our trip" sounds quite manipulative and well thought out to me. It also sounds like you haven't let the messages between this guy and his girl-friend go at all, you're yjust waiting to sting him in that oh so special scorpion way. So what, you spend a wonderful time together, he feels safe, connected and possibly willing to give your relationship a chance and *sting*--sorry, "things are different" because???? If you want to truly get back to you, then do that. All of this....isn't it. You're trying to control the outcome: that he will stay with you.
^^^^Okay, I'm done trying to fix my typos. Y'all know what the hell I'm sayin'.
Posted by scorpchick76
...I'm not sure he has actually decided about not wanting me at all. Personally I think he struggles to understand what it is he does need (his words) and he's often conflicted it seems between who he is and what others expect him to be (I'm done with expectations).
Yet....
Posted by scorpchick76
...a part of me does hope a little. I'm also strong enough to just walk away (now) having released my ties to the overall outcome (my level of attachment to the relationship).click to expand
You're flipping and flopping all over the place here. Not sure if it's to convince yourself that you care less than you actually do.
Posted by robyn808
The intensity of your conversations and his convictions to what he is telling you, seems to lead you to believe that the truth your hearing is the only truth. And what he tells the other friends is the lie he's not facing. But its more likely that these are both truths to him, with the exact same weight.
He isn't the person you need, he is the person your trying to change to get what you want.
+1
I can't read anymore... Good luck ScorpChick!
Actually I'm not... Me saying that was trying to relieve his sad eyes and trying to make things stay between us... Our relationship *is* going to look different. It has to, if it doesn't we are both going to be miserable and hate each other. We actually just had an amazing and open talk which helped me realize that he does hear me he just needs his own time to process it. I'll post more on this later...
I have let go if expectations if him and I... What we might be but I still love him and want the best for him and I would still love to be Ina relationship with him... Does this mean I'm playing games? That I want to stay together but would let him go if that was what he needed most! If so then isn't every relationship in life full of game playing?
Ok, so update... we went for our usual coffee this morning and started to actually talk... he initiated really moreso asking how my head was doing - told him that I was good, that I have the ability to sort things all out and he asked if he could borrow that aspect of me... then after when we started talking about him I told him first off that I don't want to lose him or have either of us walk away but sometimes if feels like the only thing I can do.
He told me that he feels good about looking for a new job/ career path and that taking the first step helped rather than waiting for it all to be perfect though at the same time it is scary - something we talked about before.
I'm not sure I can capture the details of it all but he told me the entire story of his past relationship and made a comment about the pregnancy being a perfect thing and the wrong time and I had to ask then was it then actually perfect. He told me how he didn't actually see himself as the father figure in his life (to his family and friends) but now that I'd pointed it out he does - I mentioned how it probably stems from his childhood when his dad worked all the time (and still does). I asked him if he got scared when people truly saw him as he was and he told me that I am the only one that has (this really touched me - that I could and that he shared that with me). He also acknowledged how he tries to get everything within himself perfect or at least to a place that he's comfortable with then he expands that radius to include another say and to see if he finds that comfortable and if he doesn't he retreats back within himself and I told him that I've felt that from him and he said that he didn't want to be doing that though it's what he knows so well. I asked him to maybe just stay in one spot and figure it out rather than the retreat.
I think he sees a lot of his ex in me and that's where the struggle is because she left him but he also acknowledges us and conversations we have had and I've come to realize that I can say something but he needs time/ space to digest it himself and then process it. We work different. He told me that we'd be okay in time and though we didn't define him and I any more than before I actually don't care. He also went off to hang with his 'girl-friend' after so I have no idea how he'll come back later but I have let go of that - what will be will be.
He told me that he feels good about looking for a new job/ career path and that taking the first step helped rather than waiting for it all to be perfect though at the same time it is scary - something we talked about before.
I'm not sure I can capture the details of it all but he told me the entire story of his past relationship and made a comment about the pregnancy being a perfect thing and the wrong time and I had to ask then was it then actually perfect. He told me how he didn't actually see himself as the father figure in his life (to his family and friends) but now that I'd pointed it out he does - I mentioned how it probably stems from his childhood when his dad worked all the time (and still does). I asked him if he got scared when people truly saw him as he was and he told me that I am the only one that has (this really touched me - that I could and that he shared that with me). He also acknowledged how he tries to get everything within himself perfect or at least to a place that he's comfortable with then he expands that radius to include another say and to see if he finds that comfortable and if he doesn't he retreats back within himself and I told him that I've felt that from him and he said that he didn't want to be doing that though it's what he knows so well. I asked him to maybe just stay in one spot and figure it out rather than the retreat.
I think he sees a lot of his ex in me and that's where the struggle is because she left him but he also acknowledges us and conversations we have had and I've come to realize that I can say something but he needs time/ space to digest it himself and then process it. We work different. He told me that we'd be okay in time and though we didn't define him and I any more than before I actually don't care. He also went off to hang with his 'girl-friend' after so I have no idea how he'll come back later but I have let go of that - what will be will be.
We have plans tonight and our trip and lots of other stuff we want to do so I'll take it all as it comes just seeing how it goes and relating to him without expectation.
I told him afterward in a text that all any of us can do is to take it one day at a time and that I will always love him. I also noted that I have his back always, he just has to tell me what he needs. He responded with a sweet text that said he knows, that he is glad we talked and that we need to talk more.
Have I mentioned that I love this boy and learning (for both of us) makes this journey worth it?
And no, I don't know what we are or are not but I know that he is a big part of my life...
I told him afterward in a text that all any of us can do is to take it one day at a time and that I will always love him. I also noted that I have his back always, he just has to tell me what he needs. He responded with a sweet text that said he knows, that he is glad we talked and that we need to talk more.
Have I mentioned that I love this boy and learning (for both of us) makes this journey worth it?
And no, I don't know what we are or are not but I know that he is a big part of my life...
and that all blew up spectacularly... at least we talked about it...
he is truly broken and lost and needs to figure out who he is... I gave him some tough love and the words from the letter - good and bad and now we continue on, as friends or whatever the universe has mapped out for us. I know our story is long and will have many epic chapters but for now this one is closing and that makes me sad - there have been A LOT of tears on both sides and hanging on but only through some distance will it begin to sink it. I worry that he'll push all these things that he has *finally* brought to the foreground into the back of his mind and find that numbness again but he says he's going to try and find himself so I can only trust in him at this point.
Life is a funny journey, I was looking back at photos of us from only 3-4 months ago and it seems like lifetimes but yet I wouldn't trade any of it because right now we are both learning and getting stronger because of coming into each others lives.
he is truly broken and lost and needs to figure out who he is... I gave him some tough love and the words from the letter - good and bad and now we continue on, as friends or whatever the universe has mapped out for us. I know our story is long and will have many epic chapters but for now this one is closing and that makes me sad - there have been A LOT of tears on both sides and hanging on but only through some distance will it begin to sink it. I worry that he'll push all these things that he has *finally* brought to the foreground into the back of his mind and find that numbness again but he says he's going to try and find himself so I can only trust in him at this point.
Life is a funny journey, I was looking back at photos of us from only 3-4 months ago and it seems like lifetimes but yet I wouldn't trade any of it because right now we are both learning and getting stronger because of coming into each others lives.
Alot of bulls can't handle emotional pain; its hard enough to have to deal with the whole transition/change once you've been with a person for a while and now have to move on.
TLS: moving this back here so as to not hijack the other threads op...
He mentioned to me when we were chatting Monday night that Saturday night was painful for him.... He was completely open and vulnerable and broken (tears even and not being able to let go of me physically). For me, while it was hard it was good- I see us as stronger for it but not sure he feels the same. Only time will tell I guess tho could there be any reluctance in that its taking him a while to secure a new place to live? Or is that just a taurus fear of change?
I've noticed that things are pretty much still the same between us as before other than not being technically an 'us' but he seems now to be craving my attention and asking what I'm doing/ staying in the space I am in even if I'm say just reading or when he does go somewhere else fully explaining it to me. I find it both funny and frustrating equally. I think I just need to just do my own thing and let him figure out that he does still want me in his own time?
scorpchick: TLS: moving this back here so as to not hijack the other threads op...
>>>LOL. You scorps like to keep things nice n' tidy. Just fyi - I have family in town and won't be able to post frequently for a bit.
scropchick: He mentioned to me when we were chatting Monday night that Saturday night was painful for him.... He was completely open and vulnerable and broken (tears even and not being able to let go of me physically). For me, while it was hard it was good- I see us as stronger for it but not sure he feels the same. Only time will tell I guess tho could there be any reluctance in that its taking him a while to secure a new place to live? Or is that just a taurus fear of change?
>>>Seems like he doesn't want to let go, altogether. Very common. Here's a good short treatment on Taurus which might be helpful to watch, emphasizing how hard it is to let go for us:
I totally agree. The scorp one is def. worth watching too and makes many of the same points I have on scorps embracing the power of vulnerability:
scorp: I've noticed that things are pretty much still the same between us as before other than not being technically an 'us' but he seems now to be craving my attention and asking what I'm doing/ staying in the space I am in even if I'm say just reading or when he does go somewhere else fully explaining it to me. I find it both funny and frustrating equally. I think I just need to just do my own thing and let him figure out that he does still want me in his own time?
>>>This is how we act when we're insecure about where we stand with you. When we're secure, we're aloof...hahahaha. I agree with your last statement. Time to step back from all the emotional heaviness that's been going on lately. I take it he knows where you stand on your feelings fully now. Plus Venus in Gem can get overwhelmed (as he seems to have been) with too much emotion and they need some lightheartedness in the relationship as well. If I were you I would do your thing but dont' be intentionally distant in a gaming sort of way. Just be a friend to him - a good and fun friend - joke around, etc. Ultimately though, I actually do agree with 87Scorpio in this thread on trusting your intuition. I have found, in talking to other scorps with bulls, you folks are very good at figuring us out and you in particular seem to be handling the whole situation really well.
>>>LOL. You scorps like to keep things nice n' tidy. Just fyi - I have family in town and won't be able to post frequently for a bit.
scropchick: He mentioned to me when we were chatting Monday night that Saturday night was painful for him.... He was completely open and vulnerable and broken (tears even and not being able to let go of me physically). For me, while it was hard it was good- I see us as stronger for it but not sure he feels the same. Only time will tell I guess tho could there be any reluctance in that its taking him a while to secure a new place to live? Or is that just a taurus fear of change?
>>>Seems like he doesn't want to let go, altogether. Very common. Here's a good short treatment on Taurus which might be helpful to watch, emphasizing how hard it is to let go for us:
I totally agree. The scorp one is def. worth watching too and makes many of the same points I have on scorps embracing the power of vulnerability:
scorp: I've noticed that things are pretty much still the same between us as before other than not being technically an 'us' but he seems now to be craving my attention and asking what I'm doing/ staying in the space I am in even if I'm say just reading or when he does go somewhere else fully explaining it to me. I find it both funny and frustrating equally. I think I just need to just do my own thing and let him figure out that he does still want me in his own time?
>>>This is how we act when we're insecure about where we stand with you. When we're secure, we're aloof...hahahaha. I agree with your last statement. Time to step back from all the emotional heaviness that's been going on lately. I take it he knows where you stand on your feelings fully now. Plus Venus in Gem can get overwhelmed (as he seems to have been) with too much emotion and they need some lightheartedness in the relationship as well. If I were you I would do your thing but dont' be intentionally distant in a gaming sort of way. Just be a friend to him - a good and fun friend - joke around, etc. Ultimately though, I actually do agree with 87Scorpio in this thread on trusting your intuition. I have found, in talking to other scorps with bulls, you folks are very good at figuring us out and you in particular seem to be handling the whole situation really well.
Posted by scorpchick76
Thanks Jess... I am in fact no longer trying to hold on (that was my mistake for a while and probably why we got to this point now) and I'm not trying to fix him hence my note about it being his journey to take. I guess my only recourse is to be here for him as he finds himself if he wants/ needs me to be (though he truly struggles with letting anyone help him) - it's times like these that I hate being an evolved scorp as I can see his beauty and in many ways what he needs to do to get there (been there done that) but he has to experience it on his own in his own time which just makes me sad yet also maybe hopeful of the possibility that our paths might cross again given that we are ending in a good place...
Question though - any idea why he seems to have this mean streak about me when he talks to this other friend of his and yet he is still tender and close to me in my presence? Any why his attention seems to be so easily drawn to others even though we're barely even over yet (I guess we might be in his head)? Could he be that easily swayed by others opinions?
BTW - his chart:
Sun Taurus 27.50
Moon Libra 13.00
Mercury Taurus 3.47
Venus Gemini 26.30
Mars Leo 16.28
Jupiter Cancer 6.29
Saturn Leo 24.09
Uranus Scorpio 13.48 R
Neptune Sagittarius 17.28 R
Pluto Libra 14.16 R
and if anyone is good with compatibility here's mine...
Sun Scorpio 11.29
Ascendant Capricorn 13.44
Moon Aries 6.52
Mercury Scorpio 9.14
Venus Sagittarius 17.06
Mars Scorpio 17.51
Jupiter Taurus 28.03 R
Saturn Leo 16.20
Uranus Scorpio 7.44
Neptune Sagittarius 12.32
Pluto Libra 12.45
Lilith Taurus 11.01
Asc node Scorpio 3.30
I would guess that Libra moon has something to do with it ! I have seen Libra suns able to make cunning decisions in business, but when it comes to decisions about their personal life... well... they really suck at it.
My colleague does readings and yesterday she asked me for a photo of him then wrote down what came to her including:
-sick as a child, asthma/ breathing (he had pneumonia and still has bad asthma)
-little boy inside made to grow up too fast
-cheeky
-monkey around - wants everyone to only see things are good
-not worthy -a self belief
-job change - corporate - suit - travel
-Overpowered by me
- not sure if he's ready to commit but wants stability/ not sure he wants to give up being a child but...
- angry with himself that he doesn't have everything together - eg house, job, finances
-feels like a disappointment
- angry with father but in same sense wants his approval - feels like he never got the time
- high self expectations
-emotional baggage but most in head
I showed him this list this morning and besides two items that I didn't include above (injury to hamstring and headaches) he agreed that the rest were pretty spot on.
In regards to him needing that outside influence I just wish he'd had someone to open his eyes to what he had in me, not being egotistical but I'm a strong woman with my shit together... I'm far from perfect but I'm open to working on that. Sadly he wasn't ready for me/ couldn't realize that everything he's always wanted was standing in front of him feeling LUCKY that he picked me (at least briefly)
-sick as a child, asthma/ breathing (he had pneumonia and still has bad asthma)
-little boy inside made to grow up too fast
-cheeky
-monkey around - wants everyone to only see things are good
-not worthy -a self belief
-job change - corporate - suit - travel
-Overpowered by me
- not sure if he's ready to commit but wants stability/ not sure he wants to give up being a child but...
- angry with himself that he doesn't have everything together - eg house, job, finances
-feels like a disappointment
- angry with father but in same sense wants his approval - feels like he never got the time
- high self expectations
-emotional baggage but most in head
I showed him this list this morning and besides two items that I didn't include above (injury to hamstring and headaches) he agreed that the rest were pretty spot on.
In regards to him needing that outside influence I just wish he'd had someone to open his eyes to what he had in me, not being egotistical but I'm a strong woman with my shit together... I'm far from perfect but I'm open to working on that. Sadly he wasn't ready for me/ couldn't realize that everything he's always wanted was standing in front of him feeling LUCKY that he picked me (at least briefly)
87scorp: When personal problems arise, Libra wants to discuss them with a counselor or friend, is open to suggestions and others' opinions, and wants to negotiate a fair, equitable solution. Aries is less likely to seek outside help and may have little patience for talking and airing the problem, unless some clear, concrete change results.
This! In talking with the woman I mentioned in the note above... Because taurus feels inferior to me (in his head as he was for a time everything I could ever dream of before he got in his own way) he sought out advice from those that he doesn't feel are better than him... If he'd gone to Simone in his life who was where taurus wants to be (relationship/ family - say his brother in law) then he'd continue to feel inferior again so therefore would never seek out this avenue even though it might have been a better option (telling him to grow up already and see what's right in front of him)... Just a thought and I really need to stop thinking about it and just tell him like it is.... For me.
This! In talking with the woman I mentioned in the note above... Because taurus feels inferior to me (in his head as he was for a time everything I could ever dream of before he got in his own way) he sought out advice from those that he doesn't feel are better than him... If he'd gone to Simone in his life who was where taurus wants to be (relationship/ family - say his brother in law) then he'd continue to feel inferior again so therefore would never seek out this avenue even though it might have been a better option (telling him to grow up already and see what's right in front of him)... Just a thought and I really need to stop thinking about it and just tell him like it is.... For me.
Perhaps this is where I should have started with him...
???fall in love with your best friend??
Isn??t that how it??s supposed to be ??? falling in love with the person you trust most in this world ??? the one who knows us best ??? who knows all our secrets and has seen all our (imagined?) demons and stands strong by our side holding our hand. Isn??t that what deep inside we all want? To love and be loved unconditionally, selflessly, honestly. My heart aches right now, truly. We finally stepped forward, opened up and you??re gone. I want to fight for us but I can??t do it alone and I know you well enough to not try and change your mind ??? a pointless effort in trying to combat stubbornness but yet I??ve spent the last few weeks still trying to figure it all out ??? the whys and hows to which I know have no answer. I only know a few things for certain ??? these are the facts:
-I love you, all of you, good, bad, everything
-You have chosen not to be with me (I want to fight for us)
-You were everything I could ever want in a partner
-I have never been clear to you on what I wanted
This might be the last letter I write to you for a while ??? I can??t keep giving while being overlooked in return.
Somewhere in time you stopped seeing me ??? stopped asking how I was or what I was up to but this isn??t about your actions. This is about mine. About how I let you treat me this way. I lost myself and more importantly my self worth. The self worth that exists within me, not outside me.
I am an amazing person who (mostly) has my shit together. I??m not going to apologize for any of that. It took me a really long time to get to this place. I spent years being lost and insecure and feeling unwanted. The only thing that got me past all that was finding the peace within myself that you so often talk about ??? I fall back sometimes but I can fix myself these days too.
And though I can stand strongly on my own and can survive independently, I don??t want to. I don??t need a partner but I want one. Someone to share in the burdens of life, to walk hand in hand with me, to share strengths and balance weaknesses, to learn from and grow with. To share secrets with in the safety of us and to be powerful standing strong together. To fight for us, our team not against one another.
I remember making a list years ago about things I wanted in a partner ??? a haphazard checklist of sorts and you ??? you were that man.
???fall in love with your best friend??
Isn??t that how it??s supposed to be ??? falling in love with the person you trust most in this world ??? the one who knows us best ??? who knows all our secrets and has seen all our (imagined?) demons and stands strong by our side holding our hand. Isn??t that what deep inside we all want? To love and be loved unconditionally, selflessly, honestly. My heart aches right now, truly. We finally stepped forward, opened up and you??re gone. I want to fight for us but I can??t do it alone and I know you well enough to not try and change your mind ??? a pointless effort in trying to combat stubbornness but yet I??ve spent the last few weeks still trying to figure it all out ??? the whys and hows to which I know have no answer. I only know a few things for certain ??? these are the facts:
-I love you, all of you, good, bad, everything
-You have chosen not to be with me (I want to fight for us)
-You were everything I could ever want in a partner
-I have never been clear to you on what I wanted
This might be the last letter I write to you for a while ??? I can??t keep giving while being overlooked in return.
Somewhere in time you stopped seeing me ??? stopped asking how I was or what I was up to but this isn??t about your actions. This is about mine. About how I let you treat me this way. I lost myself and more importantly my self worth. The self worth that exists within me, not outside me.
I am an amazing person who (mostly) has my shit together. I??m not going to apologize for any of that. It took me a really long time to get to this place. I spent years being lost and insecure and feeling unwanted. The only thing that got me past all that was finding the peace within myself that you so often talk about ??? I fall back sometimes but I can fix myself these days too.
And though I can stand strongly on my own and can survive independently, I don??t want to. I don??t need a partner but I want one. Someone to share in the burdens of life, to walk hand in hand with me, to share strengths and balance weaknesses, to learn from and grow with. To share secrets with in the safety of us and to be powerful standing strong together. To fight for us, our team not against one another.
I remember making a list years ago about things I wanted in a partner ??? a haphazard checklist of sorts and you ??? you were that man.
I remember making a list years ago about things I wanted in a partner ??? a haphazard checklist of sorts and you ??? you were that man. Until you decided you couldn??t be ??? most nights I fell asleep wrapped happily in your arms and felt so lucky ??? completely lucky that you picked me (and afraid you??d take that all away) ??? the girl who needs to be taken care of but who doesn??t know how to let go. The one who wants a relationship but doesn??t even know what that looks like, who fears never truly being loved.
I??m the girl who needs a strong man ??? someone who knows when to ask questions and talk through solutions and who knows when silent hugs are the answer as I sob safely in his arms. The man who has his own independence and need for space but likes to plan things for us to achieve together. Someone who stands up for me against all outside forces though knows I can handle my own just the same ??? a team twice as strong together. I need the man who laughs at my own ridiculousness and rolls his eyes right back at me. The one who can be dorky alongside me. I want the man who challenges me to be a better version of myself and wants to better himself for a stronger us. A charming man and a confident girl united.
I also yearn for the man who can be real ??? truly who he is in every moment ??? hurting when he??s in pain, sobbing when he??s sad, bouncing when he??s happy and confident that together we can weather any storm. A man who can find safety in my arms in his most vulnerable moments.
I also need the man who sees how broken I am too behind my wall of strength. Who realizes I??ve barely got anything figured out at all but that I??ve had many years of adapting and can trust in my own instincts. Intuition. I know I??ll be okay because I always have been, in time. I want the man that can see more than anything that I fear being left and struggle at times to believe I??m worthy of being truly loved yet still I manage to open my hear anyway ??? having learned that just being open to it brings me a little bit closer to it every day even if that means losing a bit of myself in the fear but then finding me again in the process, stronger and while I can handle it alone I don??t want to, I need someone to catch me when I fall. I want a man who believes in love and that it can surprise you when you??re not looking for it and that you have a choice to see where it leads you even when you??re terrified of being left behind.
I??m the girl who needs a strong man ??? someone who knows when to ask questions and talk through solutions and who knows when silent hugs are the answer as I sob safely in his arms. The man who has his own independence and need for space but likes to plan things for us to achieve together. Someone who stands up for me against all outside forces though knows I can handle my own just the same ??? a team twice as strong together. I need the man who laughs at my own ridiculousness and rolls his eyes right back at me. The one who can be dorky alongside me. I want the man who challenges me to be a better version of myself and wants to better himself for a stronger us. A charming man and a confident girl united.
I also yearn for the man who can be real ??? truly who he is in every moment ??? hurting when he??s in pain, sobbing when he??s sad, bouncing when he??s happy and confident that together we can weather any storm. A man who can find safety in my arms in his most vulnerable moments.
I also need the man who sees how broken I am too behind my wall of strength. Who realizes I??ve barely got anything figured out at all but that I??ve had many years of adapting and can trust in my own instincts. Intuition. I know I??ll be okay because I always have been, in time. I want the man that can see more than anything that I fear being left and struggle at times to believe I??m worthy of being truly loved yet still I manage to open my hear anyway ??? having learned that just being open to it brings me a little bit closer to it every day even if that means losing a bit of myself in the fear but then finding me again in the process, stronger and while I can handle it alone I don??t want to, I need someone to catch me when I fall. I want a man who believes in love and that it can surprise you when you??re not looking for it and that you have a choice to see where it leads you even when you??re terrified of being left behind.
You probably can??t see it but you were all of those things to me. You are those things but you managed to get in your own way. Everything you??ve wanted for so long ??? someone to stand by you, to see you, to pave this future together with is standing right here writing these words to you. There hasn??t been a single moment where I thought you weren??t enough for me, that we couldn??t take on the world together. Never. (I??m sorry you ever felt that way). I still believe you are this man, but you need to believe it yourself. Stop getting in your own way of having everything you can dream of. It??s not always easy ??? sometimes it??s emotionally agonizing as we were this past weekend but we??re stronger for it ??? more open. Stop running when it gets hard (you told me you want to break that habit of retreat), stand with me and let??s fight through this together, as a team we are strong enough.
You seemed to have doubts Saturday night in your phrasing of our break up ??? ???what if I can??t be enough for you??? ??? YOU ARE. But I can??t make you stay, make you see how amazing we are any more. I can??t convince you of what you already know deep inside. Trust your gut. You have shown me you ??? you see all these emotions and fears and vulnerability as a negative, a broken foundation whereas I can see them for what they are ??? strong awareness in yourself, all of yourself, strengths and weaknesses. That??s the beauty of a team ??? balancing those out, making us stronger overall together. These things are what make us who we are in this moment, the person standing right here today with character and strength ??? the strength to get through because you (we) already have.
I??ve seen everything about you and I am still here, still loving you and ready to fight for us. That amazing us that you know exists, that has existed before we lost ourselves and stopped talking. Can you fight beside me ??? hand in hand? I can??t do halfway and that is where we are right now. I can??t be your rock while you search elsewhere for something to make you whole, something to numb your fears, a smiling face that glances over your surface without making ripples in what??s below. You can ??? have ??? opened your heart to me, be guided by my strength until you find it in yourself ??? you asked me for my ability to just figure things out ??? walk with me and we can do it all together ??? take over the world. You trust me, trust in us and t
You seemed to have doubts Saturday night in your phrasing of our break up ??? ???what if I can??t be enough for you??? ??? YOU ARE. But I can??t make you stay, make you see how amazing we are any more. I can??t convince you of what you already know deep inside. Trust your gut. You have shown me you ??? you see all these emotions and fears and vulnerability as a negative, a broken foundation whereas I can see them for what they are ??? strong awareness in yourself, all of yourself, strengths and weaknesses. That??s the beauty of a team ??? balancing those out, making us stronger overall together. These things are what make us who we are in this moment, the person standing right here today with character and strength ??? the strength to get through because you (we) already have.
I??ve seen everything about you and I am still here, still loving you and ready to fight for us. That amazing us that you know exists, that has existed before we lost ourselves and stopped talking. Can you fight beside me ??? hand in hand? I can??t do halfway and that is where we are right now. I can??t be your rock while you search elsewhere for something to make you whole, something to numb your fears, a smiling face that glances over your surface without making ripples in what??s below. You can ??? have ??? opened your heart to me, be guided by my strength until you find it in yourself ??? you asked me for my ability to just figure things out ??? walk with me and we can do it all together ??? take over the world. You trust me, trust in us and t
You trust me, trust in us and together we can work on you trusting yourself. It doesn??t have to be in perfect order, it never is ??? just like I fell in love with you long before there was ever an us.
You told me once you thought it was all or nothing with me ??? and it is though our definitions of all and nothing are quite different. You see all as a marriage and babies and don??t get me wrong, I do want that some day (will have it one day) but right now for me, with you ??? all means us, fully committed as a team, a united front in the world. Not half way in and out making decisions independently without any discussion. All in ??? you and me and us ??? three parts to the puzzle, making us whole. A team for better or worse, happy and sad, hand in hand together right now in this moment, not just when it??s convenient. That??s what I want and what I deserve, what I know I deserve. I should have been clearer long ago.
I want all of you here and now, remember that. Believe that. I choose you. Chose you long ago but I don??t think you ever fully chose me back. Your fear that I could be all that you ever wanted in life held you back. You weren??t ready for me.
???In this world there are only two tragedies. One is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.?? Oscar Wilde
You told me once you thought it was all or nothing with me ??? and it is though our definitions of all and nothing are quite different. You see all as a marriage and babies and don??t get me wrong, I do want that some day (will have it one day) but right now for me, with you ??? all means us, fully committed as a team, a united front in the world. Not half way in and out making decisions independently without any discussion. All in ??? you and me and us ??? three parts to the puzzle, making us whole. A team for better or worse, happy and sad, hand in hand together right now in this moment, not just when it??s convenient. That??s what I want and what I deserve, what I know I deserve. I should have been clearer long ago.
I want all of you here and now, remember that. Believe that. I choose you. Chose you long ago but I don??t think you ever fully chose me back. Your fear that I could be all that you ever wanted in life held you back. You weren??t ready for me.
???In this world there are only two tragedies. One is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.?? Oscar Wilde
A very touching letter... you are so very deep... passionate... and he is being an idiot !
Have you given him this letter then ? If not... I wouldn't.
If so... you must push him out the door... BECAUSE you love him. You can do nothing more... here you have spilled your heart out to him... I think he will still be an idiot about all of this... and if left up to him... he will remain in his limbo... with you in it. If you don't have a reassuring response from him within a week or two... and he continues standing on the fence... you need to push him off to the other side where he THINKS the grass might be greener... but the only thing he will find there are weeds... and from THAT side... he will be left looking at the exotic gardens and waterfalls he let slip away.
He is not ready for this kind of love that you promise... he knows that he has all of you without giving his all to you... which is not fair. I know that you feel powerless in making him see you standing right in front of him... but his eyes are closed. YOU have it within YOU to open them... but you cannot be there when he does... as he will only do so when there is no sound.
My Dear scorpchick76... you have done everything that you can do... accept this. He only THINKS he wants to go... MAKE HIM GO... because YOU LOVE HIM. It won't be easy for you... it won't be easy for HIM... but I think THIS to be much more difficult for you... to be with him and not have him. Let him kiss life's slap in the face... make the reality become what is REAL for him. Don't let him have time to think about what he thinks he wants or doesn't want... sudden. As a Taurus... I hate sudden change... even if it was what I thought I wanted... when it is forced on me... I quickly decide it wasn't REALLY what I wanted at all. HE WILL ONLY open his eyse in this way... like falling in a dream... the jolt that suddenly awakes. Don't be afraid to let him fall.
Have you given him this letter then ? If not... I wouldn't.
If so... you must push him out the door... BECAUSE you love him. You can do nothing more... here you have spilled your heart out to him... I think he will still be an idiot about all of this... and if left up to him... he will remain in his limbo... with you in it. If you don't have a reassuring response from him within a week or two... and he continues standing on the fence... you need to push him off to the other side where he THINKS the grass might be greener... but the only thing he will find there are weeds... and from THAT side... he will be left looking at the exotic gardens and waterfalls he let slip away.
He is not ready for this kind of love that you promise... he knows that he has all of you without giving his all to you... which is not fair. I know that you feel powerless in making him see you standing right in front of him... but his eyes are closed. YOU have it within YOU to open them... but you cannot be there when he does... as he will only do so when there is no sound.
My Dear scorpchick76... you have done everything that you can do... accept this. He only THINKS he wants to go... MAKE HIM GO... because YOU LOVE HIM. It won't be easy for you... it won't be easy for HIM... but I think THIS to be much more difficult for you... to be with him and not have him. Let him kiss life's slap in the face... make the reality become what is REAL for him. Don't let him have time to think about what he thinks he wants or doesn't want... sudden. As a Taurus... I hate sudden change... even if it was what I thought I wanted... when it is forced on me... I quickly decide it wasn't REALLY what I wanted at all. HE WILL ONLY open his eyse in this way... like falling in a dream... the jolt that suddenly awakes. Don't be afraid to let him fall.
Gave him a different version of the letter but basically told him to choose or let me go but yes, I am ready to let him go which was the basis for the letter. I'm exhausted and it's breaking me, that's what I told him. I can't have this push and pull... he's reading it right now in the other room as I type this. I don't expect it to change anything but honestly at least at the end of the day I can say I gave it my all and walk away with my head held high and he only has himself to blame for not fighting for us. Maybe I'll post the actual letter tomorrow but in essence it says we're a formidible team but he has to believe in that (again) and that anything worth having is worth fighting for so that's why I'm fighting - I spent too long letting him make the decisions. Anyway... I feel okay about all of this either way... I'm strong enough to get through it on my own, sadly though I don't want to but yes, tis done.
Robyn: The only other thing I wanted to point out is. Why are you beating this guy down with negativity? I had a wtf? moment when I saw you gave him your My colleague notes about him from her reading. Idk i guess its just my point of view that lifting someone up can have greater effects. Maybe it is just a difference in polarities, that could be what we need. I don't really know but having someone constantly point out all my shortcomings, will push me in the opposite direction.
I hadn't considered this when I showed him what my colleague got... And I'm not harping on the negativity if anything (and perhaps that's not clear here as it is where I can vent) I've been trying to show him that he is an amazing person but he doesn't believe in himself. The one intense conversation we had was him bringing these pints forward and recognizing them. The first letter here he hasn't seen fully it was just the parts of the amazing person that I see him as (positive). I rewrote the letter above which I'll post layer but basically pointed out all the things he wants to be and told him that was who he was with me, that I've seen all that. After he read the letter last night he came to talk to me and I told him I wish for just a second he could see himself through my venues because he is an amazing man.
He reiterated that he needs to find himself (aka not choose me) and his own happiness standing on his own. I told him that I accept that and though didn't think the letter would change anything I didn't want to have any regrets and put it all out there. I also said that while my feelings haven't changed I can't keep giving and getting nothing in return because its not fair to me. He acknowledged that and then I said that he should probably start sleeping in the other room til he moves out. He stated that was the right thing to do but I said it was just a choice- there is no right or wrong. Just like he made his choice for now this was mine. I said if what he wants is to stand on his own he needs to stop leaning on me. He was extra cuddly last night and I savored our last night in a shared bed.
I'm at peace and ready to let go but feel like all my cards are laid out there and I'm okay with that. He'll ho do what he needs to and what will be will be whether or not we reconnect who knows.
Scorp87- you are totally correct in not just walking away but also forgetting... I've seen this work so many times in my life before... Even with the current taurus...
I hadn't considered this when I showed him what my colleague got... And I'm not harping on the negativity if anything (and perhaps that's not clear here as it is where I can vent) I've been trying to show him that he is an amazing person but he doesn't believe in himself. The one intense conversation we had was him bringing these pints forward and recognizing them. The first letter here he hasn't seen fully it was just the parts of the amazing person that I see him as (positive). I rewrote the letter above which I'll post layer but basically pointed out all the things he wants to be and told him that was who he was with me, that I've seen all that. After he read the letter last night he came to talk to me and I told him I wish for just a second he could see himself through my venues because he is an amazing man.
He reiterated that he needs to find himself (aka not choose me) and his own happiness standing on his own. I told him that I accept that and though didn't think the letter would change anything I didn't want to have any regrets and put it all out there. I also said that while my feelings haven't changed I can't keep giving and getting nothing in return because its not fair to me. He acknowledged that and then I said that he should probably start sleeping in the other room til he moves out. He stated that was the right thing to do but I said it was just a choice- there is no right or wrong. Just like he made his choice for now this was mine. I said if what he wants is to stand on his own he needs to stop leaning on me. He was extra cuddly last night and I savored our last night in a shared bed.
I'm at peace and ready to let go but feel like all my cards are laid out there and I'm okay with that. He'll ho do what he needs to and what will be will be whether or not we reconnect who knows.
Scorp87- you are totally correct in not just walking away but also forgetting... I've seen this work so many times in my life before... Even with the current taurus...
The last one:
Where to start with this one ??? the original version of this letter started with
???fall in love with your best friend??
But perhaps after thinking about it this whole evening a better one would be
???anything worth having is worth fighting for??
I want to fight for you, for us. Perhaps I overlooked your doubting question the other night ??? the ???what if I can??t be that person for you??? A question. In my head you??d already checked out on us ??? had pulled back so long ago that I resigned myself to the decision you??d already made but fuck that ??? I don??t want out and I??ve been letting you call the shots on us for far too long ??? not standing up for myself when you overlook me (when was the last time you asked about me ??? my day, my story?) and not being clear on what I want or don??t want. I??m exhausted from playing this half in half out game for the past few months with you ??? I want that man that said ???fuck this fear I??m jumping?? back in my life. Lately you look to me for approval in all you do (unconsciously?) and give me nothing in return ??? relationships are a two way street, give and give selflessly to each other out of choice but I guard your secrets while someone else holds your smile and I want it all.
Two comments stand out for me that I didn??t do much to sway your opinion on at the time because I was walking a tight rope with you from the moment you chose to kiss me this time (I spent too long trying to keep things safe for you I forgot myself but you need to be accountable for your part too) ??? the first was that you felt you could never do anything right with me ??? you did ??? you were everything I could ever dream of having in my life and every night I remember falling asleep and acknowledging (outloud) how lucky I was to be wrapped in your arms, that you chose me. The girl who stands strong and seemingly has her shit together but who has also shown you more tears in the past 6 months that I??ve probably ever shown anyone before ??? you made it safe for me. You protected me and stood up for me and opened your heart and body and soul to me ??? I saw that all. And I want to fight for that. Open your eyes to the good we had before fear became your overriding direction. You were everything I ever needed ??? but somewhere in time you let your doubts take free reign supported by your friends who want you to be happy but can??t see the true you ??? the one who needs to be
Where to start with this one ??? the original version of this letter started with
???fall in love with your best friend??
But perhaps after thinking about it this whole evening a better one would be
???anything worth having is worth fighting for??
I want to fight for you, for us. Perhaps I overlooked your doubting question the other night ??? the ???what if I can??t be that person for you??? A question. In my head you??d already checked out on us ??? had pulled back so long ago that I resigned myself to the decision you??d already made but fuck that ??? I don??t want out and I??ve been letting you call the shots on us for far too long ??? not standing up for myself when you overlook me (when was the last time you asked about me ??? my day, my story?) and not being clear on what I want or don??t want. I??m exhausted from playing this half in half out game for the past few months with you ??? I want that man that said ???fuck this fear I??m jumping?? back in my life. Lately you look to me for approval in all you do (unconsciously?) and give me nothing in return ??? relationships are a two way street, give and give selflessly to each other out of choice but I guard your secrets while someone else holds your smile and I want it all.
Two comments stand out for me that I didn??t do much to sway your opinion on at the time because I was walking a tight rope with you from the moment you chose to kiss me this time (I spent too long trying to keep things safe for you I forgot myself but you need to be accountable for your part too) ??? the first was that you felt you could never do anything right with me ??? you did ??? you were everything I could ever dream of having in my life and every night I remember falling asleep and acknowledging (outloud) how lucky I was to be wrapped in your arms, that you chose me. The girl who stands strong and seemingly has her shit together but who has also shown you more tears in the past 6 months that I??ve probably ever shown anyone before ??? you made it safe for me. You protected me and stood up for me and opened your heart and body and soul to me ??? I saw that all. And I want to fight for that. Open your eyes to the good we had before fear became your overriding direction. You were everything I ever needed ??? but somewhere in time you let your doubts take free reign supported by your friends who want you to be happy but can??t see the true you ??? the one who needs to be
??? the one who needs to be reminded what happy looks like. Take a look at the photos on my phone and you??ll see the boy with sparkling eyes.
You fall back on advice from people who are where you once were not where you want to be ??? if you asked [your brother in law], a man I??m sure you do respect for advice at this juncture in your life he??d probably tell you that you??re an idiot for not seeing the truly amazing girl standing right here in front of you. The one who needs you ??? exactly as you are. I can hear his cheeky voice already saying ???get your head out of your arse and open your eyes?? and I??m not saying I??m better, this isn??t ego driven it??s just that we as a team are amazing ??? trust in that and remember what that feels like ??? you and me as a team ??? fully committed to each other ??? do you really believe anything can stop the two of us ??? even Batman doesn??t stand a chance.
I remember making a list years ago after dating an endless string of broken boys about the things I wanted in a partner ??? a haphazard checklist of sorts and you crossed off all of those items ??? you are that man ??? or were until you started to doubt yourself (doubt us).
I??m the girl who needs to be taken care of though I struggle to not do it all on my own (I??m learning). I??m the girl who needs a strong man ??? someone who knows when to ask questions, helping find solutions to my troubles and who knows when silent hugs are the answer as I secretly sob in his safe arms. The man who has his own independence and need for space but likes to still plan things for us to achieve together. Someone who stands up for me against all outside forces ??? a team twice as strong together. I need the man who laughs at my own ridiculousness and rolls his eyes right back at me. The one who can be dorky right alongside me. I need the man who challenges me to be a better version of myself and who strives to do the same for a stronger us. A charming man and a confident girl.
I also yearn for the man who can be real ??? the backbone to all those around him, sheltering others when he can but knowing he??s also completely safe with me to let down his guard and hurt when he??s in pain, let out the tears when he??s sad, acknowledge his fears in the open and to be excited when he??s happy and confident in knowing he??ll never be left behind or pushed aside but fought for always even when we might lose our way. Together.
You fall back on advice from people who are where you once were not where you want to be ??? if you asked [your brother in law], a man I??m sure you do respect for advice at this juncture in your life he??d probably tell you that you??re an idiot for not seeing the truly amazing girl standing right here in front of you. The one who needs you ??? exactly as you are. I can hear his cheeky voice already saying ???get your head out of your arse and open your eyes?? and I??m not saying I??m better, this isn??t ego driven it??s just that we as a team are amazing ??? trust in that and remember what that feels like ??? you and me as a team ??? fully committed to each other ??? do you really believe anything can stop the two of us ??? even Batman doesn??t stand a chance.
I remember making a list years ago after dating an endless string of broken boys about the things I wanted in a partner ??? a haphazard checklist of sorts and you crossed off all of those items ??? you are that man ??? or were until you started to doubt yourself (doubt us).
I??m the girl who needs to be taken care of though I struggle to not do it all on my own (I??m learning). I??m the girl who needs a strong man ??? someone who knows when to ask questions, helping find solutions to my troubles and who knows when silent hugs are the answer as I secretly sob in his safe arms. The man who has his own independence and need for space but likes to still plan things for us to achieve together. Someone who stands up for me against all outside forces ??? a team twice as strong together. I need the man who laughs at my own ridiculousness and rolls his eyes right back at me. The one who can be dorky right alongside me. I need the man who challenges me to be a better version of myself and who strives to do the same for a stronger us. A charming man and a confident girl.
I also yearn for the man who can be real ??? the backbone to all those around him, sheltering others when he can but knowing he??s also completely safe with me to let down his guard and hurt when he??s in pain, let out the tears when he??s sad, acknowledge his fears in the open and to be excited when he??s happy and confident in knowing he??ll never be left behind or pushed aside but fought for always even when we might lose our way. Together.
I need the man who understands I have a big heart but have trouble showing it. That though I??m independent I want nothing more than a partner by my side to help me navigate this big scary world ??? teaching me the beauty that true commitment holds. Holding on tight to each other even when our deepest fears are telling us to run away. I need the man who sees that more than anything I fear never being loved and sometimes my insecurities do get in the way but that each day I manage to open my heart just a little more ??? having learned that just being open to love brings me a little bit closer to it every day and it??s surprisingly beautiful and worth risking for even if it means losing a little bit of myself in the process.
Everything I??ve ever needed is in you ??? you??ve opened up and shown me that but now you??ve pulled away. Everything you??ve shown me you wanted is standing here in front of you writing these words ??? fighting for us ??? exposing my soul to you with no expectation of the outcome. I learned long ago that it??s impossible to change your mind ??? only you can do that ??? but you can choose me ??? we can walk this road together, I??m not turning away. I want to fight for us whatever that looks like ??? chasing all our hopes and dreams and living a beautiful life together.
The second comment you made that stands out in my mind is that you feel it??s all or nothing with me ??? I??m sorry for always joking how you??re gonna marry me one day ??? my intuition still tells me it??s so but I can see how that put too much pressure on you, on us. My point wasn??t that I needed the wedding and the 2.5 kids from you now but rather that I could see a beautiful future for us and that I wasn??t going to leave you ??? that I was in this for good. I??m still here.
But you were right in some way, I do want all or nothing, this in-between ??? this place we are right now is breaking me ??? we aren??t together but we??re more than friends. It??s too messy. I am in or out, no push and pull. A team full on, truly committed in partnership or a friend who you hang out with sometimes but not the person who holds your hand as you walk through life. I??ll always have your back if life falls apart but I can??t be your dumping ground for everything that you fear ??? of your complaints or issues when you barely look at me ??? it??s too draining.
Everything I??ve ever needed is in you ??? you??ve opened up and shown me that but now you??ve pulled away. Everything you??ve shown me you wanted is standing here in front of you writing these words ??? fighting for us ??? exposing my soul to you with no expectation of the outcome. I learned long ago that it??s impossible to change your mind ??? only you can do that ??? but you can choose me ??? we can walk this road together, I??m not turning away. I want to fight for us whatever that looks like ??? chasing all our hopes and dreams and living a beautiful life together.
The second comment you made that stands out in my mind is that you feel it??s all or nothing with me ??? I??m sorry for always joking how you??re gonna marry me one day ??? my intuition still tells me it??s so but I can see how that put too much pressure on you, on us. My point wasn??t that I needed the wedding and the 2.5 kids from you now but rather that I could see a beautiful future for us and that I wasn??t going to leave you ??? that I was in this for good. I??m still here.
But you were right in some way, I do want all or nothing, this in-between ??? this place we are right now is breaking me ??? we aren??t together but we??re more than friends. It??s too messy. I am in or out, no push and pull. A team full on, truly committed in partnership or a friend who you hang out with sometimes but not the person who holds your hand as you walk through life. I??ll always have your back if life falls apart but I can??t be your dumping ground for everything that you fear ??? of your complaints or issues when you barely look at me ??? it??s too draining.
I want all of you ??? here and now, remember that. Believe that. I choose you. Chose you long ago (nothing about you can scare me away) and you captured my heart (not an easy thing to do). You have a choice now ??? you can choose me back and we can work on building our amazing team well into the future or you can let me go. Either way believe that you do deserve everything you could ever dream of having ??? stop doubting yourself and selling yourself short. You are an amazing man who can have an outstanding life that can look like anything you want it too ??? not what others think it should look like (stop looking at others to validate your choices) but exactly what you want. My intuition tells me we??d be rock solid ??? you say it once too.
I understand your worry about trying to build an us on a shaking foundation when you don??t feel solid yourself. But that??s the beauty of a team ??? we get to rely on each other ??? balance out our strengths and weaknesses to be formidable and not do it all alone. The other day you asked for my ability to just figure it all out ??? to know that everything will always be okay. And you said you trust me completel ??? so trust me on this. Us ??? we??re a great thing ??? a thing to be fought for if you choose it too. Choose me.
???fall in love with your best friend??
I understand your worry about trying to build an us on a shaking foundation when you don??t feel solid yourself. But that??s the beauty of a team ??? we get to rely on each other ??? balance out our strengths and weaknesses to be formidable and not do it all alone. The other day you asked for my ability to just figure it all out ??? to know that everything will always be okay. And you said you trust me completel ??? so trust me on this. Us ??? we??re a great thing ??? a thing to be fought for if you choose it too. Choose me.
???fall in love with your best friend??
help me kick the habit of him.... argh, it's so hard and he's not helping at all... I know I am stronger than this but he's still in my space all the time and mirroring me like crazy... ugh. It's like he's a lost puppy but doesn't want any help but his own yet needs approval of things. It's exhausting but I can't figure out how to cut ties.
Posted by scorpchick76
help me kick the habit of him.... argh, it's so hard and he's not helping at all... I know I am stronger than this but he's still in my space all the time and mirroring me like crazy... ugh. It's like he's a lost puppy but doesn't want any help but his own yet needs approval of things. It's exhausting but I can't figure out how to cut ties.
Yes... THIS is a pickle ! You live together right ? I am assuming that he moved in with YOU ?
Him sleeping in another room is not exactly what I meant, when I said that you need to push him off the fence. YOU have been very clear with him about how you feel... and now he will sleep in another room UNTIL HE FINDS another place ?!! Put your deep sea of emotion aside for a moment... I know you can be logical... in what universe is this arrangement serving either of you ? Even divorcing couples allow themselves to separate before the divorce is final... children may complicate this... but in YOUR situation this is not a complication.
Basically, you have given him an open-ended ticket to camp at YOUR place until... UNTIL. UNTIL WHAT ? He will fix himself and be grateful for your generousity and compassion... and he will move a fixed man... all while you cry at night alone in your bed while he is just in the next room... while he continues to ride his 'I am so broken' card. What about YOU ?!! Who is going to fix YOU after all of this... because though you are strong... this arrangement is really too much to ask of anyone... and he should not be asking you. I will not dispute that it is likely that he belongs with you... but at this moment, I find his lack of respect for you to be disturbing... to be willing to continue to torture you... knowing exactly how you feel about him. There will be another chapter... YOU are a 'keeper' ! But... for YOUR sake... GET HIM OUT OF THERE ! Pull the sword from your own chest... he will not do it for you... as each passing day he twists it just a little more.
I know you hate to have to do this... but you've got to give him a deadline... 3 days tops... SUDDEN. This must be so very awkward for you... but nothing will be fixed if this sitaution does not change ! Your only words need be: "You know how I feel... this is why I need you to go." Why is he still there ? Your little lost puppy is still shitting in the house ! Reward him not... he MUST learn to do it outside !!!
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