Real World (An Idealist's Philosophy)
This topic was created in the Capricorn forum by cappysweetie on Saturday, June 3, 2006 and has 128 replies.
You are on page out of 3 | Reverse Order
Hmm, the ?Real? World ? how could such a philosophy exist among false pretense?
This arbitrary term for reality is quite the oxymoron. Why? My reasons are as follows:
1) Propaganda isn?t just a literary term but a ?way of life? for most humans. All societies are influenced by this in some way, even those who refuse to be associated with there government find themselves doing what they are told by those they choose to follow. Whether it?s liberal or conservative ? propaganda is what it is.
2) Religious fundamentalism seems to question spiritual humanity -- it?s self-explanatory
3) The Black Market is thriving more than most economies -- and it?s not just the common people keeping this way *** wink *** wink.
4) People who need to be rehabilitation are sent to prison but those who actual criminals (in a literal sense, not a irrigative sense) get rehabilitation or probation.
5) The portrait of the ?American Dream? (perfect family, ideal job etc.) went from being based on values and hard work ? to being as corrupted as the mentality of those that keep the Black Market thriving.
This arbitrary term for reality is quite the oxymoron. Why? My reasons are as follows:
1) Propaganda isn?t just a literary term but a ?way of life? for most humans. All societies are influenced by this in some way, even those who refuse to be associated with there government find themselves doing what they are told by those they choose to follow. Whether it?s liberal or conservative ? propaganda is what it is.
2) Religious fundamentalism seems to question spiritual humanity -- it?s self-explanatory
3) The Black Market is thriving more than most economies -- and it?s not just the common people keeping this way *** wink *** wink.
4) People who need to be rehabilitation are sent to prison but those who actual criminals (in a literal sense, not a irrigative sense) get rehabilitation or probation.
5) The portrait of the ?American Dream? (perfect family, ideal job etc.) went from being based on values and hard work ? to being as corrupted as the mentality of those that keep the Black Market thriving.
6) In society, most people put on a false image of who they really are.
For instance, that gangster, who mugged someone may appear aloof and unremorseful -- when in reality SHE could be mentally disturbed.
Another instance, the man who killed his two children and raped his girlfriend may appear to lost control mentality -- when in reality, he just wanted to get rid of three stress aspects in his life. He didn?t want to feel responsible anymore.
7) We live in a time where altering physical looks is just as common as going for a walk.
Breast implants, butt implants, calf implants .. You name, there just may be an implant for it.
8) Image is everything and some? If you don?t look the part, you are then labeled ?not? that part.
Men try to cover their bald spots, women spend money covering their gray hairs so they can look 20, when they are really 40. Men and women who wear suits try it evoke a persona that they are above those who choose to wear jeans and a tee shirt. People buy product after product to try and achieve the standard ?idea?.
For instance, that gangster, who mugged someone may appear aloof and unremorseful -- when in reality SHE could be mentally disturbed.
Another instance, the man who killed his two children and raped his girlfriend may appear to lost control mentality -- when in reality, he just wanted to get rid of three stress aspects in his life. He didn?t want to feel responsible anymore.
7) We live in a time where altering physical looks is just as common as going for a walk.
Breast implants, butt implants, calf implants .. You name, there just may be an implant for it.
8) Image is everything and some? If you don?t look the part, you are then labeled ?not? that part.
Men try to cover their bald spots, women spend money covering their gray hairs so they can look 20, when they are really 40. Men and women who wear suits try it evoke a persona that they are above those who choose to wear jeans and a tee shirt. People buy product after product to try and achieve the standard ?idea?.
And the list goes on ????????????................
On a lighter note, I could make statements like: The ?world is about as real? as the ?weapons of mass destruction?, those killers water guns* are still waiting to be found
And ?reality? is about has real as all the hype that surrounds ?Osama Bin Laden?, it amazing how this guy to just show out of no where at the right times (with a camera crew I mind you) , but then disappear into then air ?. Hmmm?
On a serious note, the expression ?real world? and the term ?reality? are interchangeable but the meaning behind them are of an idealistic nature. My opinion is much like the quote by Jacques from Shakespeare:
?All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances, And one man (or woman) in his (or her) time plays many parts ?.?
The people who believe in the ?Real World? could truly be the most idealistic ones of all.
On a lighter note, I could make statements like: The ?world is about as real? as the ?weapons of mass destruction?, those killers water guns* are still waiting to be found
And ?reality? is about has real as all the hype that surrounds ?Osama Bin Laden?, it amazing how this guy to just show out of no where at the right times (with a camera crew I mind you) , but then disappear into then air ?. Hmmm?
On a serious note, the expression ?real world? and the term ?reality? are interchangeable but the meaning behind them are of an idealistic nature. My opinion is much like the quote by Jacques from Shakespeare:
?All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances, And one man (or woman) in his (or her) time plays many parts ?.?
The people who believe in the ?Real World? could truly be the most idealistic ones of all.
Saddam posessed them purely on the fact that the US gave him the weapons in the past...This has never been mentioned much in the media
YES!!
so many people just "overlook" this fact- a little too convenient no?
This has never been mentioned much in the media. Saddam was our poitical puppet at one time, and we gave him WMD
you know it ! -_- ! some people just don't wanna believe it^^
YES!!
so many people just "overlook" this fact- a little too convenient no?
This has never been mentioned much in the media. Saddam was our poitical puppet at one time, and we gave him WMD
you know it ! -_- ! some people just don't wanna believe it^^
"My comment is irrelevant to your argument...but I feel like mentioning it...
In regards to the WMD in Iraq, I know Saddam possessed them purely on the fact that the US gave him the weapons in the past...This has never been mentioned much in the media. Saddam was our political puppet at one time, and we gave him WMD. Where they went is irrelevant to me...I suspect he used them on his people. Of course this really has nothing to do with 'real world'...I have my own reasons for the main reason for the war...which isn't related to WMDs."
OOOOOHHHH!!! So WE (!!!) gave him the WMD, holy cow so this changes ?some? things. The media created this image that Saddam?s men created these weapons and they were ready to ?destroy? the U.S. at any give moment. So all the propanganda was to cover up what was done in the past ... well I'll be ...
It?s interesting how Saddam was a political puppet but when the Americans started demanding the capture of Bin Laden ? it was Saddam who became the ?bad guy? I?m not saying he doesn?t deserve what he?s getting, but he was not the one who was shown on every news station after 9/11
Yes DB, I too have my own reasons for this (senseless) war . Did you know that more people were killed in Iraq than in Vietnam -- THAT?S CRAZY!
In regards to the WMD in Iraq, I know Saddam possessed them purely on the fact that the US gave him the weapons in the past...This has never been mentioned much in the media. Saddam was our political puppet at one time, and we gave him WMD. Where they went is irrelevant to me...I suspect he used them on his people. Of course this really has nothing to do with 'real world'...I have my own reasons for the main reason for the war...which isn't related to WMDs."
OOOOOHHHH!!! So WE (!!!) gave him the WMD, holy cow so this changes ?some? things. The media created this image that Saddam?s men created these weapons and they were ready to ?destroy? the U.S. at any give moment. So all the propanganda was to cover up what was done in the past ... well I'll be ...
It?s interesting how Saddam was a political puppet but when the Americans started demanding the capture of Bin Laden ? it was Saddam who became the ?bad guy? I?m not saying he doesn?t deserve what he?s getting, but he was not the one who was shown on every news station after 9/11
Yes DB, I too have my own reasons for this (senseless) war . Did you know that more people were killed in Iraq than in Vietnam -- THAT?S CRAZY!
Did you know that more people were killed in Iraq than in Vietnam -- THAT?S CRAZY!
^^ not so sure I buy this but- what are your resources might I ask?
^^ not so sure I buy this but- what are your resources might I ask?
DB:"We disgree based on definitions and perspectives sweetie. Most of the points you made depicts the 'real world'...
The real world is far from ideal...I was raised believing in ideals, but when I experienced life, my parents would explain portions of the real world...The real world is that life is not fair. The real world is that people can be consumed in superficial ways. The real would makes ideals faulter. Bad men can be successful. Good men can fall to things out of their control."
Yes, we do disagree on the perspection of the "Real World", but that's okay because you counterattacked my arguement with concrete points.
However, was speaking of the "real" world from an artifical sense. Not in referenece to human conditions. My arguement was that many things that we are faced with in daily like are both directly and indirectly false. Most people are living a lie at this very moment but they are to caught up with their own deception to even notice it.
The real world is far from ideal...I was raised believing in ideals, but when I experienced life, my parents would explain portions of the real world...The real world is that life is not fair. The real world is that people can be consumed in superficial ways. The real would makes ideals faulter. Bad men can be successful. Good men can fall to things out of their control."
Yes, we do disagree on the perspection of the "Real World", but that's okay because you counterattacked my arguement with concrete points.
However, was speaking of the "real" world from an artifical sense. Not in referenece to human conditions. My arguement was that many things that we are faced with in daily like are both directly and indirectly false. Most people are living a lie at this very moment but they are to caught up with their own deception to even notice it.
^^ not so sure I buy this but- what are your resources might I ask?
Yeah, I thought it was a load too until I saw and heard proof. I don't rely on the media but go to CNN.com and you should find the information.
Yeah, I thought it was a load too until I saw and heard proof. I don't rely on the media but go to CNN.com and you should find the information.
"Why is it crazy? Why are you comparing the two? Should I respond and say more Americans died during WWII than the soldiers that died in Iraq? Should I question the Pearl harbor issue...I believe that the President knew the attack on Pearl Harbor...he did it b/c he needed a CAUSE to go to war. Because we are REACTIVE..."
Ditto, we are a very reactive nation ... we just don't sem to have the ability to focus on things we do something about.
"And the majority of the resistance in the war today is from the terrorist...it's a battle ground there...I am just relieved it isn't here in our country. It makes no sense for a powerful nation to not be involved in the world...The philosophy of only taking care of yourself is folly...What happens across the Atlantic will effect us, no matter how hard we look away...If China keeps growing the way it is as an industrial power, it will hurt us...it has already...The price of steel and other raw materials has jumped in price...China pays their people next to nothing for work...it enables them to lower prices...this can cripple our economy...we are not self-sufficient...we do not produce our own oil...blame it on the environmentalists. We depend on a lot of foreign goods...and America's involvement in countries that supply the goods makes sense.."
Yes, our involvement makes sense, but at the moment we are not in good graces with many nations who supported us in the past DB .... if we don't improve our interpersonal communications then our future doesn't look too good from an economic stand point.
Ditto, we are a very reactive nation ... we just don't sem to have the ability to focus on things we do something about.
"And the majority of the resistance in the war today is from the terrorist...it's a battle ground there...I am just relieved it isn't here in our country. It makes no sense for a powerful nation to not be involved in the world...The philosophy of only taking care of yourself is folly...What happens across the Atlantic will effect us, no matter how hard we look away...If China keeps growing the way it is as an industrial power, it will hurt us...it has already...The price of steel and other raw materials has jumped in price...China pays their people next to nothing for work...it enables them to lower prices...this can cripple our economy...we are not self-sufficient...we do not produce our own oil...blame it on the environmentalists. We depend on a lot of foreign goods...and America's involvement in countries that supply the goods makes sense.."
Yes, our involvement makes sense, but at the moment we are not in good graces with many nations who supported us in the past DB .... if we don't improve our interpersonal communications then our future doesn't look too good from an economic stand point.
"All nations fall...the change in our country over the last 100 years is that we are not familiar with this...we are comfortable...we do not realize the REAL WORLD...we do not realize that our way of life can end. When I talk to people from WWII, I can see that in them...I can see how our culture gap really is different... Have a real war on American soil and you will see the swift change in the people...And we will unite as one...b/c we have a common purpose...to defend our way of life.."
I have realized that our way of life can change every since 9/11, our natural diasters (ie. Hurricane Katrina). As a teen, I wasn't as globally aware so as a result I too thought that our way of life will always be the same. As i grow older, my eyes began to see things for what thy really were ... we are not a super nation ... not by a long shot! The only reason we have lasted this long is because of our "underground investments". However, it survival of the fittiest right now so who knows if those "underground investments" are even going to hold up their end of the bargain ....
I have realized that our way of life can change every since 9/11, our natural diasters (ie. Hurricane Katrina). As a teen, I wasn't as globally aware so as a result I too thought that our way of life will always be the same. As i grow older, my eyes began to see things for what thy really were ... we are not a super nation ... not by a long shot! The only reason we have lasted this long is because of our "underground investments". However, it survival of the fittiest right now so who knows if those "underground investments" are even going to hold up their end of the bargain ....
DB, I don't think the American people understand how lucky they are not to have to deal with war directly ... they get to watch it on T.V. and make their generalizes and discriminatory statements about those they know nothing about ... I just hope we all decide to open our eyes and get proactive before it's too late.
if we were more united...then we would last longer...but we divide on many issues...where is the national identity? We seem to be losing it...
do you really think that with all the different kinds of minds- free thinkers and followers that we could really UNITE?
in America's case, a nation united is a nation brainwashed...we just live here and should treat the place and peoples as kindly as we would/should on any other ground...to UNITE implies a certain amount of exclusion which really bothers me...
do you really think that with all the different kinds of minds- free thinkers and followers that we could really UNITE?
in America's case, a nation united is a nation brainwashed...we just live here and should treat the place and peoples as kindly as we would/should on any other ground...to UNITE implies a certain amount of exclusion which really bothers me...
if you are a hard-core christian who believes that abortion is WRONG WRONG WRONG you won't "unite" with those pro-choice people...too many feel that you must believe wht they believe in order for a strong unity to occur- to me this is just stupid
*I mean- their beliefs of course, are not stupid
Hey, I was speaking for myself ... I have changed. I can see why you feel the way you do/ For a while after 9/11, I felt that everyone was presenting a "fake patriotism" ... OMG I really don't mean to sound negative but that's what I felt from other people 
YES!!!! This nation feels more divided than ever -- well, at least it feels more segregated (darn I use the word) then when I was growing up. I grow up in the "Clinton/ Gore" years, so it felt very much like a modern "peace*love". However, the "newest" Administration shined a whole now light on things.
DB:?Our nation has survived is because of our system...It is far from IDEAL, but it is the best system thus war...with account to human nature...our economy has thrived b/c of our capitalism...more successful form of economy that I have seen...competition makes better products, etc...and compared to the rest of the world, we are a super nation in my opinion??
Wait, DB ? capitalism is more of an idea, to my understanding it hasn?t really been implemented into our economy and if so ? have we benefited ???
YES!!!! This nation feels more divided than ever -- well, at least it feels more segregated (darn I use the word) then when I was growing up. I grow up in the "Clinton/ Gore" years, so it felt very much like a modern "peace*love". However, the "newest" Administration shined a whole now light on things.
DB:?Our nation has survived is because of our system...It is far from IDEAL, but it is the best system thus war...with account to human nature...our economy has thrived b/c of our capitalism...more successful form of economy that I have seen...competition makes better products, etc...and compared to the rest of the world, we are a super nation in my opinion??
Wait, DB ? capitalism is more of an idea, to my understanding it hasn?t really been implemented into our economy and if so ? have we benefited ???
After the war, we will just go back to fighting each other...lol
^yes, you see my point exactly
^yes, you see my point exactly
shc,
I'm more of a spiritual person myself. I will not voice my political view too much because I don't want flames but I can understand where you are coming from. Don't worry, DB is very fair
I'm more of a spiritual person myself. I will not voice my political view too much because I don't want flames but I can understand where you are coming from. Don't worry, DB is very fair
I will not voice my political view too much because I don't want flames
Because you are brainwashed to be politically correct. Grow some balls.
Because you are brainwashed to be politically correct. Grow some balls.
"Because you are brainwashed to be politically correct. Grow some balls."
Hey Virgo, you mean galls ... I am a female
Hey Virgo, you mean galls ... I am a female
Actually, I don't like being PC nor do I like PC comments ... I just refuse to state my opinions when I feel there's no need or if there's no point ... that's just what I do.
Yet do you see mine? Yes there is a big conflict with abortion...but which is more important? Protecting our way of life or falling to a common enemy?
It's the VALUE of what is MORE important...need to protect your way of life in order to have a right to choose abortion...
yes, I do see what you mean db- all I was saying was- well- I was being a pessimistic bitch about the whole thing and really, I think your idea is great and fighting for the right to live and thus choose is as good a reason as any to unite- is just that I am not optimistic that enough people will realize that in order to make it a reality
It's the VALUE of what is MORE important...need to protect your way of life in order to have a right to choose abortion...
yes, I do see what you mean db- all I was saying was- well- I was being a pessimistic bitch about the whole thing and really, I think your idea is great and fighting for the right to live and thus choose is as good a reason as any to unite- is just that I am not optimistic that enough people will realize that in order to make it a reality
Why don't you do it Virgo101.
What sb, grow balls. Go look in one of your nice shiny textbooks and you will see that it is not possible.
What sb, grow balls. Go look in one of your nice shiny textbooks and you will see that it is not possible.
It is unwise to gage a President (administration) by EVERYTHING that happened during their administration...b/c their efforts effect the conditions that the next president in office...
A president isn't that powerful...
This is true, although most people don't realize this ... the president and his croonies are just the "stand up" people ... or should a say public relations. The Senate and Congress have more power -- I been paying more attention to who gets seats now verses who is the Pres or Vice Pres ... lol, it's funny how they try to make it seem like the Congress and senate our the least important during the elections.
LOL, that's funny
A president isn't that powerful...
This is true, although most people don't realize this ... the president and his croonies are just the "stand up" people ... or should a say public relations. The Senate and Congress have more power -- I been paying more attention to who gets seats now verses who is the Pres or Vice Pres ... lol, it's funny how they try to make it seem like the Congress and senate our the least important during the elections.
LOL, that's funny
sweetie is more like a Democrat and I am more like a Republican...
Go figure.
Go figure.
Or we could classify political parties based upon ethnicity, gender and age with a few exceptions.
okay db- but we ALL have to percieve that our lives are in danger and if some people don't percieve the same threat than the so-called unity goes down the tubes...
and I do not agree that numerous is inconsequential- I do believe that it takes numbers and a large group is what gains attention - it may start small but like a snowball down the hill it will only get recognition once it is large enough to crush someone and really heve the potential to make a difference
and I do not agree that numerous is inconsequential- I do believe that it takes numbers and a large group is what gains attention - it may start small but like a snowball down the hill it will only get recognition once it is large enough to crush someone and really heve the potential to make a difference
from all the comments on this board, sweetie is more like a Democrat and I am more like a Republican...
YAY!!!! DB! We have proven everyone wrong ... the tooo political parties can find middle ground You are awesome DB, but how did you figure out my politics ???
YAY!!!! DB! We have proven everyone wrong ... the tooo political parties can find middle ground
You are awesome DB, but how did you figure out my politics ???I consider myself part of the no party minority
College = Liberalville
Except for a few exceptions.
Except for a few exceptions.
If you are not a democrat when you are 20, your parents did not pay for you to have a liberal arts education that would provide you with no skills and your father was probably a capricorn
If you are not a republican when you are 40, you have no money, a lousy job and are paying child support (if the following is all true BUT also you love NASCAR and drink budlight daily than you are actually a republican-)
If you are not a republican when you are 40, you have no money, a lousy job and are paying child support (if the following is all true BUT also you love NASCAR and drink budlight daily than you are actually a republican-)
Ok, but when a Mexican tank rolls down your neiborhood and starts blasting homes and apartments...tell me if you feel IN DANGER...most people would...
Just yell "Viva la raza" and you will be just fine.
Just yell "Viva la raza" and you will be just fine.
You're in college sweetie...it wasn't very hard
LOL, a dead give away ... maybe I should've said I was a stripper or something ... most of them are Republicains
LOL, a dead give away ... maybe I should've said I was a stripper or something ... most of them are Republicains
Mr. Bread did you ever see Saving Private Ryan. You could get a few lessons of destroying tanks from there.
J/K
"screw that...I would figure a way to derail that damn tank...most tanks would have soldeiers near by protecting it...maybe I can get a grenade..."
Whoa, macho man! I'm bold and all ... but you beat me to the punch
Whoa, macho man! I'm bold and all ... but you beat me to the punch
Ok, but when a Mexican tank rolls down your neiborhood and starts blasting homes and apartments...tell me if you feel IN DANGER...most people would...
by then it is way to late and it's everyman for himself...
but yes, you are right- when divided we scatter like roaches and ultimately fail at survival- which is why groups and numbers are important
ants cooperate to protect the queen and sacrifice everything for the livelihood of the commune...when threatened the bees go to arms and swarmattack their enemy as a pack, a united group...in numbers
by then it is way to late and it's everyman for himself...
but yes, you are right- when divided we scatter like roaches and ultimately fail at survival- which is why groups and numbers are important
ants cooperate to protect the queen and sacrifice everything for the livelihood of the commune...when threatened the bees go to arms and swarmattack their enemy as a pack, a united group...in numbers
I say that after we capture the soldiers we ground them up into ground meat, pack them into sausages and sell them back to their homeland. This goes for any war.
"Those that can fight will find each other...harder to survive alone..."
What about those who are wounded ??? They will need aid in order to survive ...
What about those who are wounded ??? They will need aid in order to survive ...
what exactly is your politics my dear jungrau *looking confused*
What about those who are wounded ??? They will need aid in order to survive ...
Umm...did you see Saving Private Ryan?
Umm...did you see Saving Private Ryan?
what exactly is your politics my dear jungrau *looking confused*
Are you referring to me ????
Are you referring to me ????
oops!
sorry sweety- 101 is jungfrau
sorry sweety- 101 is jungfrau
Ms. Schoenetanz my politics are reasonable, from a twisted angle.
o_O *unsatisfied customer*
o_O *wondering why order is taking so long*
o_O *eating a napkin*
((o_O))
((o_O))
okay
*raising fork to eyeball*
o_X
*raising fork to eyeball*
o_X
"cappiesweetie is very intellectual, but I just can't help but disgree with most of what she says...I wonder why...I'm about to argue her 'real world' thread....figure I should answer it on the cappy board...instead of the scorpio board."
You think I am intellectual! ... THATNK YOU for the compliment DB >
< LOL, it okay DB, we can agree to disagree ... it would be interesting dialogue if you didn't find at least some of my comments wayward ... but the fact that you disagree with most of my comments makes everything MORE INTERESTING LOL!!!!
You think I am intellectual! ... THATNK YOU for the compliment DB >
< LOL, it okay DB, we can agree to disagree ... it would be interesting dialogue if you didn't find at least some of my comments wayward ... but the fact that you disagree with most of my comments makes everything MORE INTERESTING LOL!!!!lol
you always know just what to do
o_U
you always know just what to do
o_U
Related Topics
Ive just met an American soldier (based in Germany) while on holiday in Spain. We have been contacting each other regularly by text and email and he has asked me to visit him in a couple of weeks. I have no experience with military men but really felt a c
@Sola
Joined: May 11, 2006 · Topics: 185 · Posts: 2807
I am a scorpo-snake. What about you ?
@topazwoman
Joined: Nov 04, 2005 · Topics: 28 · Posts: 457
How many of you are ??? What are the characters ?
@topazwoman
Joined: Nov 04, 2005 · Topics: 28 · Posts: 457
Do you guys/gals keep things and never throw them away? Little charms, notes, photos, memories, etc?
@arieswoman
Joined: May 25, 2006 · Topics: 33 · Posts: 220
sorry to copy babygur3434, but i've read sag fems are supposed to have crazy hair, thick legs and horse butts.
@sagibot
Joined: Mar 06, 2006 · Topics: 9 · Posts: 39
world's most notorious enemy...for y is it so convenient for the less controversial of us to blame inconsistencies on anything BUT fear..its so pitiful to deny the obvious.. i guess in most cases its something that will never be seen..or for the optimists
@hopelessdreamr
Joined: Dec 27, 2005 · Topics: 62 · Posts: 429
world's most notorious enemy...for y is it so convenient for the less controversial of us to blame inconsistencies on anything BUT fear..its so pitiful to deny the obvious.. i guess in most cases its something that will never be seen..or for the optimists
@hopelessdreamr
Joined: Dec 27, 2005 · Topics: 62 · Posts: 429
I do see alot of Caps lacking some major abilities to perceive things in humorous way. They tell you not be rude or uncivilised. I think Caps have a thing for this. I also think they are too serious for this.
@haffo
Joined: Feb 15, 2005 · Topics: 354 · Posts: 9826
do u like your Opposite sign?
@GEM*TWO
Joined: Sep 20, 2005 · Topics: 41 · Posts: 3855
Today that Cappy woman were coming to our office and my mom met her in the corridor. My mom was talking something and she said "Silence! Silence!" as in funny way (it's normal no need to get shocked).
I took it will humour so all fine here.
<
I took it will humour so all fine here.
<
@haffo
Joined: Feb 15, 2005 · Topics: 354 · Posts: 9826