Should I just move on? Gemini w/2 kids by Virgo

This topic was created in the Virgo forum by MelindaKane on Monday, November 12, 2012 and has 44 replies.
I really need some insight here.
I have a baby girl by a Virgo guy. He raised my toddler boy from just born.
We had a huge explosive fight which resulted in him being disrespectful towards me and I kicked him out. I flew of my hinges, which is NOT my pattern. A lot led up to that and I feel 100% justified in that decision, however, I really didn't want him to go. But I had to be taken seriously.
So the issue? Infidelity, lying, drastic mood and pattern changes and more.
Meanwhile: Note, he proposed to me about a month ago.
So many mixed signals, cold then hot then cold, or he's all over me and then doesn't call me or contact for a week....
I'm lost. I'm very adaptable and usually very calm but his style is so unpredictable and offensive that I can't seem to adjust.
So to top things off, we have been trying to "work it out." He's visited several times since the incident. He says he will come home soon, but let's not rush it. Then he stood me up one night, I called, and he didn't talk to me for 2-3 days.... GRRR.
Like, when he messes up, he treats me like "I" messed up. I don't get that.
Moreover, the other night we had a few drinks and got affectionate. Again, DISAPPEARED... haven't talked to him at all.

Come/Go?
Any input would be appreciated.
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Wow...there are alot of Virgo/Gemini relationships I see. The more I see the threads people post here, the more I feel we are alike in alot of ways. IDK about this one...but sometimes most Virgos run hot & cold alot for various reasons. Stressed, hurt, dealing with alot, space, financial issues, not really into the relationship etc., alot.
Maybe he's unsure of the relationship that you 2 have. You said he cheated in the past & lied. What made you even go back with him after that? Was the fight because of infidelity? Is that the reason you kicked him out? Or was this something ongoing & you just decided enough was enough?
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My mistake, not "in the past" because you didn't state that. Just cheating & lying in general I guess.
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@RealTalk
Yes, he's cheated/lied.
I've only caught him in lies over cheating.
He's done it multiple times.
He's got several kids from prior relationships.
He often cheats with his exes that have his kids, but also new girls.
But it's not often.
I sense with some (like exes) he senses an obligation of some kind.
Or he ventures out for variety, because our relationship can get boring sometimes.
Or he's still in love with all of them.
Or he's really a jerk and my life is all an illusion.
What makes me go back?
Chemistry/attraction, his (empty) promises, having kids together, being good friends most of the time.
The fight was started over me finding open erotic novelties. He blew it off. I went to the kitchen and was upset alone. He came out defensive. I said I have a right to be upset. He went to bed. Later, I went to bed and barely brushed the covers, he got huffy. I blew my top. Then he said mean things and tried to judge me as crazy.
So I gave him a taste of crazy.
Ultimately I told him he had to leave because of his language/attitude. But the catalyst is the infidelity.
He can be a real jerk 1% of the time. 99% of the time, it's a PERFECT life (in a bubble though, apparently).
I'm a gemini BUT I am Cancer rising, Venus & Mars in Aires, Leo Moon... and I can become very emotional if someone says something really rude. Otherwise though, I'm cool as a cucumber (on the outside at least).

@DeeGee
It's been 3.5 weeks. He has visited a couple times per week but still not brought his clothes back. I asked him what's this is about-- but he's holding off, I don't know.

I really feel like he is trying to pimp my emotions to beg him back. But I don't want to appear desperate. He already does that when I have to call him, he won't pick up until I call 2-3 times (that pisses me off) saying, his ringer is soft.



This is weird. Ya know, I dated a Virgo before long time ago and he was nothing like this Virgo.

Thing is, we have kids and I'd like to work on it if we can. But it's just weird. When he's here he seems sincere. When he's gone, he acts like it's highschool games.
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Excuse my phrasing. What I meant to say is that he doesn't cheat often but when he has, it's usually with an ex that has his child. But I've caught him courting new girls.
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Yes there may be something seriously off in the relationship but he doesn't express it and he appears super happy. So it's like a split personality. I thought I was the Gemini in the relationship. Sheesh.
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Well he cheats on you because you make it easy for him. You're telling him it's ok because you're accepting him right back. If he can cheat, lie & be back with you, that's exactly what he's going to do because you're teaching him how to treat you.
I understand you have children with him & you'd like it to work but he's not respecting you. Stop rewarding his bad behavior. You have to make a decision & stick to it. Don't allow him to mistreat you like that.
Split personality, lol. If his venus is in Libra then shit...he can be very indecisive which can appear to be a split personality. Constantly changing views, etc.
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Disappearing for a few days/weeks is a virgo trait it's his way of thinking things
out [virgos live in their mind] so don't take it personal. It's hard to concentrate on
"How to fix me" wen all yu can think about is your mate.
The mix signals are because he really doesn't know how to come off correctly
wen it comes to emotions [meaning he doesn't react the way yu think he would]
He wants to marry yu he jus isn't emotionally detached so it seems lik a lie.
Once a virgo loves they love forever so that's why he can't let the ex's go
[if I had a boyfriend I woundnt consider sleeping with my ex of 6yrs cheating;
I know it sounds ridiculous, but some of us justify this in our heads - don't
judge me.] but don't confuse "love" with being "inlove" I love my ex cause we
have history, but I'm inlove with whomever I'm in a relationship with; yu get it?
I was addicted to porn so I understand the whole sexual erotic novelties because
we'd rather imagine sex than actually doing it sometimes [weird, but yu can never
be disappointed by your imagination.] it mite be hard for yu, but it'll be best if yu let
him continue to read them.
He blames yu because its his way of not coming to turns with the fact that he's done
something wrong. Guilt is a hard pill for us to swallow so try not to take it personally.
Instead, have a serious non emotional conversation where you thoroughly explain how yu
feel including your likes & dislikes w/o tears & w/o yelling.
If your worried about gettin him back, your good yu didn't do anything worth ending a relationship
over he jus needs breathing room; don't give him too much room becaus an idle VIRGO
mind is a devils workshop lol.
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Real Talk- I agree with you 100% .
However, when I reward good behavior, he shuts down --or acts entitled.
Moreover, I don't want to reward bad behavior, but I don't want to really lose him either.

My girlfriend said I shouldn't have kicked him out. She says I should have slept on the couch for two weeks and ignored him in the house, went out, etc. But kicking him out gave him an escape route. Oh well, too late for that suggestion.

I don't know his Natal chart. He doesn't know what time he was born. He really acts like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde.

I suppose if he really loves me and wants me, he'll be back.
Maybe my ego can't deal with rejection. I feel rejected A LOT.
But, he says "ILU" first, proposed, we have kids... if he didn't want me, would he bother?

Also, some introspective thinking the past few days has me suspcious that he might be overwhelmed by me.

He also keeps asking if I slept with anyone. I got peeved once and said, "I'm not you dude!" ...ouch.
Hey, but I'm like damn... do you want me to? Should I say yes? LOL... I never cheated, he has
NO RATIONAL reason to even question THAT.
I wonder if he's looking for a 'valid enough' reason to justify his behavior or leaving for good...but can't find one.


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Next week it will be a month of him not living here.
I'm concerned he's getting comfortable in his new environment.
And his staying with his family, who are enabling him.
He's in his late 30's. He's not put in 1 job application since he's been gone.
Not that he has to. He's being treated there like he's 15.
His family just bought him new clothes and got his hair cut.
On top of this, I'm sure his girl"friends" are enabling him too.
All this can cloud his judgement. I already know he's dazed by a new iphone he got.
I can't compete on that level nor do I want to, nor should I have to.
Actually, on that topic- I often wonder what I have to offer him in this relationship since I am compared to the combined effort and resources of a dozen people- minus the strings.
However, to digress... how LONG from coming home is "too long" to wait before I should just "get the hint" that he's not coming back?
He wants to move out of state. I think this may help him control his behavior, at least initially since access to the exes is impossible. But what would keep him from simply making NEW relationships in this new place. Last thing I want is to leave my home area to a new state and be played there, to be stuck in nowhereville... Still, it's worth getting closer to risk it. But, we can't financially make it happen fast enough apparently.
He's very "instant gratification"...
Do you think marriage might change his mindset some? Or will I just be married to the drama?
I understad love vs. in love. I don't know where he and I are. Sometimes it's like love. Sometimes he's all super duh and lusty. Then it's goes back and forth. Blech. Wish I knew... if I ask, he acts insulted. Hmph.
The novelties, I think he used them with someone else and that's why they were opened. I'm not in the least bit threatened by anything sexual. In fact, I often have to approach it carefully because I know he's a freak but I don't want him to judge me as lacking dignity. But I'll be frank with you, I'm a freak. He knows this. So no reason to hide the stuff unless it was "evidence."
You may have something when you say, "He blames yu because its his way of not coming to turns with the fact that he's done
something wrong. Guilt is a hard pill for us to swallow so try not to take it personally."
Still, he did many things wrong. If I did that to him, he'd probably kill himself.

How much room is TOO Much ROOM?
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"Yes, he's cheated/lied.
I've only caught him in lies over cheating.
He's done it multiple times.
He's got several kids from prior relationships.
He often cheats with his exes that have his kids, but also new girls.
But it's not often.
I sense with some (like exes) he senses an obligation of some kind.
Or he ventures out for variety, because our relationship can get boring sometimes.
Or he's still in love with all of them.
Or he's really a jerk and my life is all an illusion."
He sounds like a nightmare!! I don't know what's wrong with him but what is wrong with you?
"What makes me go back?
Chemistry/attraction, his (empty) promises, having kids together, being good friends most of the time"
So let me get this straight, just because you share chemistry/attraction you stay with him only to get cheated on, lied to and mistreated. Ugh! No wonder he cheats, you are the epitome of being a doormat, HE'S LOST RESPECT FOR YOU and when that happens he'll drag your ass down to the ground and keep you there if you let him.
Let me SAY THIS though, I don't believe you are a loser nor a doormat but you've LOST YOURSELF in the relationship and your BEHAVIOR says a story about you as person as in what you accept and what you accept says you're a doormat, no man is going to be loyal to a woman that disrespects herself and allow a man to disrespect her.
The reason he hasn't brought his clothes back because he know you want him back, he's going to make yo ass beg and you probably will beg him to come back, have some pride, stop calling him and stop worrying about him, he'll be back when it's convenient for him to come back, right now he's using the free time to do his own thing.
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So wait a minute...he doesn't even have a job? WTF??? He's a loser. Damn, a liar, a cheater, & broke? Were you supporting him? He gets it easy from all ends. His family, other chicks. He's a grown ass man & he should take care of himself. He has children for heaven sake. He needs to get his shit together because he's too old to be depending on others being 30+. It's pretty sad really.
Please...he wouldn't have been staying with me with no damn job. If you were supporting him, he wants to be with you because of that. You're his meal ticket, I mean if that's the case. You sound like a decent woman, why are you putting up with this asshole?
You enable him too by taking him back. You're telling him it's ok to cheat on you, lie to you & disrespect you. You don't want to lose him? You're aleady losing by accepting his bullshit. Ask yourself this...what is he doing that is so great, that you feel like you'll be losing. NOTHING you've described here tells me that he's Mr. Wonderful. He totally sounds like Mr. broke, asshole, loser, lying cheater. Again, what is so great about this guy?
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At all, sorry for the typos and grammatical errors.
@Tiki33
He is not a nightmare. As I mentioned previously, he has many fine qualities over 90% of the time.
Part of my issue is weighing the pro's and con's, how much weight to apply to each.
My dignity weighs heavy. However, many of my friends say I am often single because
I expect too much and my dignity is too high. My married friends tell me that a lot.
That sort of haunts me. My married friends have all had shares of issues, in marriage and before.
And the common idea is, you take the bad with the good and keep pressing.
That's a different message than what I hear from my single friends, boyfriends or not.
The chemistry isn't #1, although I did list it first.
#1 would be the kids. Breaking a family is not easy.
My pattern is not a doormat. Yes, I've lost myself in this relationship somewhat. He also found out that I put up with some of my first child's father's crap before I left him. And I tend to allow some pushing over when I have kids with a guy maybe-- although the word we use is "compromise."
He knows I don't play that otherwise. When I dated him in high school, I walked away (claimed I broke his heart too). And he's seen me walk away from a few relationships. I'm sure he's aware that I have limits. I did kick his butt out after all.
As far as "allowing a man to disrespect me"; that's really a tough call. Do understand, I'm a GEMINI. I have ZERO issue letting go of pretty much ANYTHING so, to be enduring means I'm deeply invested. And it's QUITE clear I want a traditional home and relationship. However, these issues (combined perhaps with some of my darker elements - such as my sexual imprudence) have led me into interpretable waters.
I tend to let my guard down faster than him. And it doesn't fly up as quickly as his. This leaves so much open to interpretation, I'm almost self-conscious at this point (also unlike me!)
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@RealTalk
He generally keeps a steady job. He had two when he moved in. He lost it a couple months ago. But what am I supposed to do, say "Hey man, I love you but since you lost your job you GOT TO GO!" ... no really?
I'm not trying to be a meal ticket. I was raised though that when someone is down, you don't kick them when they're down.
What am I losing:
1. My children lose their father at home. They are NOT aware of anything but their perfect daddy here from day 1.
2. I lose help. He helps so much that doing it all alone is almost crippling now. 2 in diapers alone, one is disabled.
3. I lose my friend. We used to be friends at least.
4. I lose my future. Goals, marriage, family, etc. Have to come up with a brand new future.
5. I lose my lover. Not just sex, but the person he is when he is loving in a very unique way, because he knows me.
6. I lose my time, money, effort... ego, all I sacrificed to make it come this far, even some of my integrity sacrifices - wasted.
7. I lose one of the only people who know me really well.
8. I lose my partner, we have several mutual business ventures and social ventures.
9. I lose my extended family/friends that we've intertwined...due to people "taking sides"- including much social support
10. I lose one of the only people I was able to let my guard down for
I could go on...
My self-respect and dignity is really high on the totem. I just sometimes wonder how high is too high.
Every married couple I've observed has had some roller coaster rides.
But if I let it happen, the pattern is, it will happen.
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Let me add where this becomes confusing to me.
As one poster mentioned, he may be thinking things through on 'how to fix himself' but distancing me.
However, in my book (Gemini), we have kids. You don't fall off the map to think. That's irresponsible.
See- conflict.
Or, he says "no love for me today?" if I don't call.
So I call, and then he doesn't pick up.
Then I'm like WTF in my mind. This = games.
Then when he calls, his phone was dead.
But, for 2 days?
See- conflict.
Two philosophies:
If you love something, let it go. If it's yours, it will come back.
vs.
If you love something, never let it go.
Which is correct?
If I'm too close, it's smothering.
If I'm too far, it's ignorance.
Where is the balance?
If I don't take him back, I keep my self-respect, lose my family, goals, and investment.
If I do take him back, it could go on. Or it could get worse. (or it could get better- unknown variable)


A married friend of mine was talking to me about her particular issue once with her husband. Something I took from that conversation is how she deals with disrespect tests. It's very different than what I'm used to or advice heard elsewhere.
She would not kick her man out. But she will sleep on the couch and ignore him. Or close the room door and he'll be on the couch or in the car.
She would no longer do things for him or provide in any way above common courtesy.
If he man says something mean, she will very politely but assertively reprimand.
List goes on. She never threatens security as far as the relationship or housing situation.
But I guess that's off the radar anyway since they're legally married.
Still, she says that if I ever want to be married, you have to act married before you are married.
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Fine qualities?! What is fine about having several kids from several relationships including you, cheating with exes and new girls, lying, not working, being a jerk, allowing his family and ex girlfriends to take care of his adult in his late 30's grown man ass?
Is he your husband?
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He's not thinking anything through. Why in the world would he think about fixing himself when everyone around him including you are ENABLING him to do exactly what he wants do. There will be no fixing himself, you will either adjust yourself around him or he'll leave and only come back when it's convenient for him.
What's up with all the la la land thinking that he's both kids father and that he's going to marry you some day? You are grown enough to know that this man doesn't want to be with you for the exception of when it's convenient for him and okay that's him so exactly how long do you intend on revolving your world around that kind of behavior?
Move on and don't let him back in until he put a ring on it, date set and it's official. You shouldn't be going through this BS for a boyfriend that comes and goes.
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MelindaKane ... you're an idiot, which is something you don't even know .. you obviously think being a doormat is normal.
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Well, actually ... all Geminis really have no clue, and all of them will lay down to be trodden on, and if it is pointed out to them, they have no clue what is being said.

hhhhhmmmmmmm .....
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Posted by P-Angel
MelindaKane ... you're an idiot, which is something you don't even know .. you obviously think being a doormat is normal.


Why not be quiet when you have nothing to say, you always spew your sap on every topic and you always repeat the same stuff, whatever the issue is.
Obviously you didn't even read through everything she said as she had many good points.
He does sound immature and the cheating is unacceptable but being mutable, this can but not might not change with age. I'm very surprised that he doesn't make any effort to get back with you, that's the most disrespectful thing since you obviously share a lot of history together.
PS. To the OP: thank you for writing in a comprehensible manner which was easy to follow.
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@P-Angel, WOW- aren't you an insecure little thing. smile Which is something YOU DO KNOW. I'm sure you're capable of communicating your points without being condesending or putting others down for the sake of your ego. You obviously think insulting people contributes to the conversation. Your illogical fallacies are not welcome in my brain. If you have something constructive to add, please do. Otherwise, have fun upping you post count, I'm unaffected by your babble. Lol. In fact, keep babbling. I'm mildly entertained.
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Tiki33, what you're saying contradicts what JazSexyAzz said (look at page 1)
Is he my husband? No. He was my best friend and fiance, live in boyfriend/child's father.
He called me his "wife" though. But legally, no.
As far as la la thinking:
He "claimed" my middle son. I did not set that up. He did it on his own. My son calls him daddy. At first, I tried to limit that. He calls him his son though. He's been involved since he was born. Biologically, he's not my middle son's father. Biologically, he only fathered my daughter. My middle son was a planned assisted pregnancy (that I had done on my own before we dated) so my middle son only has a donor.
Marriage was his idea. He proposed. The ring is a CZ. This is (or said) due to not having enough money right now.
Note: He has been very generous in the past. I'm inclined to believe his gesture was sincere.
Your suggestion will be SINCERELY considered.
I totally see your perspective. However, it is on the cynical side.
Again, the other side of the coin is putting trust in him and he will be inclined to not let me down.
I keep getting two very good points of view. YIN and YANG.
By the way, I appreciate your logic and how polite you are while still making your points. smile
An awesome point is, setting an exact date, if in face I/He wants to "work it out."
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@SV Thanks for the defense in re: P-Angel.
Immature, yes. Mutable, me too. I change at a faster pace. He's grown a lot actually. But anywhere else, he hasn't had to. Do I want this "project" is what's on my mind. I have "options" as far as guys go. But again, a lot is already invested here. That's why I'm analyzing all the angles.
As far as making an effort to get back with me. In a way, I'm not sure if he feels he has to. One of his friends said to me yesterday this though "You need to trust him more, he's trying. And understand, he's trying to save face too."
It's this push/pull thing.
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Update:
I call him this morning. He picks up promptly.
I say, "I'm just trying to figure out my week."
He says, "What do you mean?"
I say, "Did you want to visit the kids this week?"
He says, "Yes, I can be there Saturday at 2."
I say, "Are you okay? I haven't heard from you in a couple days."
He says, "I was in one of my moods. I turned off my phone. Everything is fine."
I say, "Well, I had to take our son to the hospital Sunday and I couldn't reach you."
He says, "What happenned?"
I say, "His breathing was acting up again. I thought you'd want to know."
He says, "Is he okay????"
I say, "Yes. Look, aside from you and I, if your not going to pick up your phone, you're not going to know what happenning."
He says, "I got you."
I say, "If we work it out, we do. If we don't we don't. I'm not calling to discuss it. So let's be civil."
He says, "I got you (in a humble tone)"
I say, "This Saturday works but next Saturday I won't be around, so you have to figure something out next week if you want to see them."
He says, "Ok cool. that's my only time this week though. The funeral is this week." (his stp-grandmother died Thursday)
I say, "Okay, I'll call you to verify later in the week."
He says, "Okay. I'll call you later, I'm helping my nephew set up his game." (I didn't even imply I cared about him calling me later)
I say, "Okay bye"
He says, "Bye...." (then doesn't hang up..)
I hung up.
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The conversation seemed luke warm and mildy nervous on his behalf and I tried to be warm but platonic yet came off slightly fridged toward the end.
In a sense, I want him to know he is sincerely cared for, loved and desired (even welcome). BUT that I'm not compromising on my end AT ALL.
@Lenore0908
It's not healthy.
I don't want a guy like that. I want the man he WAS when he had some self-respect and respected me.
I know I'm coming off desperate. How do I NOT come off as desperate YET still be able to co-parent?
He assumes when I call that I am calling to talk about US...lol.
AND, (between us) I really DO care about him and love him. But really, I Do have self-respect. I made compromises for the sake of the relationship, which in other relationships were appreciated. In this case, it just showed his ASS.
I have heard the saying that I teach people how to treat me. However, I've also heard that I shouldn't have to teach a grown adult anything. Although, that's not practical. Even GOOD guys/gals have a learning process. How then, even if the relationship is not salvaged, to I go from RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW and "Teach" him that he blew a good thing, and that he must have respect?

Lenore, thank you for your suggestions too!!! I'm all ears. I do suppose, I have very little to lose at this point.
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I'm not contradicting, I'm telling you he is not thinking anything through, had he thought this through he would have his ass at home, he's doing what he wants to do and he'll get back to you when it's convenient for him and right now it's not convenient and you haven't squirmed and begged enough for him to come back, he wants to be REWARDED for his bad behavior, you must tell him he's great, he did nothing wrong, he's the master and you're the servant before he steps back into your miserable life.
As for marriage? Did he give you a real ring? And ask yourself this. Is this what men do to women they want to marry? Do they cheat, not work/contribute to the home and lie? If I marry him what's the incentive for him to change? Realistically there is no incentive for him to change, you'll just end up splitting your assets and/or he'll take everything and you'll be shit out of luck plus 2 kids.
LOL@cynical side, he's let you down already, get your priorities together woman, too damn old to be thinking like you're a 16 year old teenager. Get your head out of your ass and try to see the forest from the trees.
You can't fix a man, YOU CANNOT FIX A MAN, what you have NOW is what you get, he hasn't evolved, you've just adjusted to crazy, you have adjusted to not being normal with him and now you sound like a emotional no self respect emotional crack head, this man got you twisted up and I can't see you setting a positive example for your children, they'll be human doormats too if you don't get yourself straightened out.
Dump your assclown friends or just stop listening to the low self esteem talk they are feeding you, they all sound like they have low self worth issues, the man is not trying, if he's cheating on you then HE'S NOT TRYING, like what part of that do you all not get, if he's shirking his responsibilities he's not trying and allow others to enable him then he's not trying.
Trying is the equivalent of saying "I'm sorry". Trying is coming home consistently and ensuring his kids have enough love and attention despite his failures. Trying is him asking for forgiveness and never doing it again, trying is him contributing to the household despite his mess up. He's avoiding you and the kids and that is not trying that's outright giving you shade.
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Posted by MelindaKane
Update:
I call him this morning. He picks up promptly.
I say, "I'm just trying to figure out my week."
He says, "What do you mean?"
I say, "Did you want to visit the kids this week?"
He says, "Yes, I can be there Saturday at 2."
I say, "Are you okay? I haven't heard from you in a couple days."
He says, "I was in one of my moods. I turned off my phone. Everything is fine."
I say, "Well, I had to take our son to the hospital Sunday and I couldn't reach you."
He says, "What happenned?"
I say, "His breathing was acting up again. I thought you'd want to know."
He says, "Is he okay????"
I say, "Yes. Look, aside from you and I, if your not going to pick up your phone, you're not going to know what happenning."
He says, "I got you."
I say, "If we work it out, we do. If we don't we don't. I'm not calling to discuss it. So let's be civil."
He says, "I got you (in a humble tone)"
I say, "This Saturday works but next Saturday I won't be around, so you have to figure something out next week if you want to see them."
He says, "Ok cool. that's my only time this week though. The funeral is this week." (his stp-grandmother died Thursday)
I say, "Okay, I'll call you to verify later in the week."
He says, "Okay. I'll call you later, I'm helping my nephew set up his game." (I didn't even imply I cared about him calling me later)
I say, "Okay bye"
He says, "Bye...." (then doesn't hang up..)
I hung up.



He wouldn't have to ask what happened if he had his ass at home. He's helping his nephew set up a game but he's not there for his own son? What kind of madness is this. The nephew is getting more fatherly attention than your own son. This is some dysfunctional mess for sure. Where in the hell is your anger? Why call him at all, he should have some kind of vested interest in his sons life instead of playing games with nephew.
I hear Twilight Zone music in the background....Madness
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*typo - How then, even if the relationship is not salvaged, *do I go from RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW and "Teach" him that he blew a good thing, and that he must have respect?
In the least, I would like to avoid taking him to court and stuff. I really have a hard time believing this is 100% game. But I'm not refusing the possibility.
Meanwhile, having children from previous relationships doesn't stand as a bad trait. I have a teenager from my first relationship and my young son is an IVF (donor) [The child he "claims"]
If he were to get his act right, get a job and stop the nonsense, it would be "marriage material."
Still, some of me wonders if it has these weaknesses, even any changes would be permanent. Lost cause?
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Posted by MelindaKane

The conversation seemed luke warm and mildy nervous on his behalf and I tried to be warm but platonic yet came off slightly fridged toward the end.
In a sense, I want him to know he is sincerely cared for, loved and desired (even welcome). BUT that I'm not compromising on my end AT ALL.
@Lenore0908
It's not healthy.
I don't want a guy like that. I want the man he WAS when he had some self-respect and respected me.
I know I'm coming off desperate. How do I NOT come off as desperate YET still be able to co-parent?
He assumes when I call that I am calling to talk about US...lol.
AND, (between us) I really DO care about him and love him. But really, I Do have self-respect. I made compromises for the sake of the relationship, which in other relationships were appreciated. In this case, it just showed his ASS.
I have heard the saying that I teach people how to treat me. However, I've also heard that I shouldn't have to teach a grown adult anything. Although, that's not practical. Even GOOD guys/gals have a learning process. How then, even if the relationship is not salvaged, to I go from RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW and "Teach" him that he blew a good thing, and that he must have respect?

Lenore, thank you for your suggestions too!!! I'm all ears. I do suppose, I have very little to lose at this point.


You clearly have common sense. USE IT!! He lost self respect for you because you don't respect yourself when you are around him, he's learned you are not worth fighting for because who fights for a person that doesn't love herself & allow mistreatment, you want the old him to come back then woman up and stop sending out mixed messages to him, you're being nice when you know damn well you are angry and fed up, try displaying how you really feel instead of tap dancing around his feelings & the issues just to get him to come back home, you are part of the problem in all of this, take responsibility and fix things on your end.
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Yes it stands as a bad trait, he doesn't respect himself enough to protect himself, he's sleeping around with all these women and risking STD infection because he doesn't care about anyone and he lacks respect for women and himself. It's irresponsible to continue to have babies that he can't actually afford and to prevent being hit with child support he just shuffles between you all and at the same time attempt to get new women on board. Is he mentally ill?
No he's not marriage material, a man his age isn't interested in getting himself together, he's perfectly fine dragging all his babies mama's down with him. Think dammit! If he married you he'd be hit with child support by all his baby mama's and the only way to not have that happen is to continue shuffling between all his baby mama's even after marrying you to appease everyone. Does that sound attractive to you? Being last even after marrying him.
He's set, he's like a pot of clay, once the clay is put into fire it's set, there is no molding and rearranging it, it's set, he is who he is.
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Posted by MelindaKane

@SV Thanks for the defense in re: P-Angel.
Immature, yes. Mutable, me too. I change at a faster pace. He's grown a lot actually. But anywhere else, he hasn't had to. Do I want this "project" is what's on my mind. I have "options" as far as guys go. But again, a lot is already invested here. That's why I'm analyzing all the angles.
As far as making an effort to get back with me. In a way, I'm not sure if he feels he has to. One of his friends said to me yesterday this though "You need to trust him more, he's trying. And understand, he's trying to save face too."
It's this push/pull thing.


Do you love him?
It's scary how objective and calm you are in this matter.
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Posted by MelindaKane

@RealTalk
He generally keeps a steady job. He had two when he moved in. He lost it a couple months ago. But what am I supposed to do, say "Hey man, I love you but since you lost your job you GOT TO GO!" ... no really?



Uh...yeah. He's NOT your husband. "Hey man, I love you, I understand you lost your job, but you cannot stay here with me, with these children & not contribute anything. You need to get a job or you GOT TO GO!" yes really?
I'm not trying to be a meal ticket. I was raised though that when someone is down, you don't kick them when they're down.


No of course not. But have you ever heard of tough love? He's down, he's a grown ass man & he has to make his own way. He's the provider, the protector, the professor. There is no way in HELL he should be living off of you. You make it waaaay to easy that's why he wants to marry you. You are being a meal ticket.
What am I losing:
1. My children lose their father at home. They are NOT aware of anything but their perfect daddy here from day 1.
2. I lose help. He helps so much that doing it all alone is almost crippling now. 2 in diapers alone, one is disabled.
3. I lose my friend. We used to be friends at least.
4. I lose my future. Goals, marriage, family, etc. Have to come up with a brand new future.
5. I lose my lover. Not just sex, but the person he is when he is loving in a very unique way, because he knows me.
6. I lose my time, money, effort... ego, all I sacrificed to make it come this far, even some of my integrity sacrifices - wasted.
7. I lose one of the only people who know me really well.
8. I lose my partner, we have several mutual business ventures and social ventures.
9. I lose my extended family/friends that we've intertwined...due to people "taking sides"- including much social support
10. I lose one of the only people I was able to let my guard down for
I could go on...


So you're willing to allow him to wipe his feet on you because you need "help"? Is he helping now? You lose your friend...what true friend will disrespect someone in this manner? You lose your lover...one less notch on his belt. Do you really want someone "loving" you that way? You lose your partner, extended family & the only person you can let your guard down for. ALL of that is worth allowing him to treat you like shit huh?
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You need to trade in that sweet badge for a bitch badge & give his ass some TOUGH love. He treats you like this because he can & he will continue if you don't stop it. You make excuses for him. Everything that has been advised you refute it in some way & come to his defense. You have totally lost yourself & you say your self respect & dignity is high on the totem? You should check that one again because it's pretty low.
What about you? Don't you want a man that's going to be loyal, one you can trust, provide, profess his love for, respect, be kind to, attentive to, caring. Someone who's going to be good to you & your children. If he REALLY wants & loves you, he'll be all of those things & would be there for you. He would be trying to get back with you, mend fences, & put in EFFORT. He's not doing shit. You should make his ass WORK for your affections instead of taking him back so easily.
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@tiki33 - Is he mentally ill? I think so.
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@SV -
Do I love him? Yes.
Should I? Probably not.
My objectivity: I feel a need to think this out rationally vs. following my gut. My gut got me involved with him.
Calm: Superficially. I sure got angry the night I kicked him out. But you're right. I'm scaring me right now slightly as well.
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@Lenore0908
"Too much thinking and analyzing"
I do not want to regret my decisions ever, so yes, I think a lot and analyze things. I don't do long-term guilt well.
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@RealTalk
Your opinion is well received. However, no- I'm not making excuses for him. Here in this thread (topic), I'm probing and inquiring, submitting different angles, comparing angles from different sources, etc. My subjective self put his ARSE pon de SIDEWALK. However, is it possible/desirable to work it out/me-change/him-change/etc.? That's why I am here. I just did the deed "BOY BYE!"
In a way, I acted first, now I'm thinking where to go from here. I'm acknowledging my feelings and taking responsibility for both my actions and inaction. So I think you may be misunderstanding why this topic is in continuation.
"Everything that has been advised you refute it in some way & come to his defense." >>> Again, for the sake of argument only, devils advocate, trying to be objective, and willing to accept that POSSIBLY there are elements where I have to reflect further.
I'm actually a little confused as to why you say now that I've lost myself and my self-respect and dignity are LOW simply because I seek insight from a variety of people here. Some of what is said herein contradicts. Nothing has happened in 24 hours to change the scenario- so I don't see how my worth has changed except in your eyes due to my continuing this conversation. If you have nothing more to add, I politely ask YOU respect the fact that I am interested in more than just a few (yours) opinions....real talk.
By the way, I do thank you for your input and you have excellent POINTS (said that before). But the rhetoric, I'm not swayed by it. I need data and am willing to listen to the paths of reasoning here. But I'm a Gemini. I can decide for myself.
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So why did you come here in the first place? If you can decide for yourself you don't need the opinions of others. Why are you confused? The more you tell your story, the more I see that you have. What do you mean you don't see how your worth has changed except in my eyes? You don't see your worth AT ALL.
The more you DO tell your story, the more I see how you HAVE lost yourself. Everyone here is basically telling you the same thing. "I need data" what other opinions do you need? I see, you want someone to baby you & tell you everything is ok, he loves you & he wants to be with you forever & a day? Ok, on November 43rd. With how you're handling things good luck with that.
You don't have to be swayed by anything I'M saying. You did come to the Virgo boards & your title does say should I just move on? You just don't want to accept the truth. I'm not trying to be mean to you or put you down, I'm giving you insight like everyone else here but since you're a "Gemini" I guess you can decide for yourself, like being a damn Gemini means anything.
Welp, good luck in hun. No use beating a dead horse...
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*good luck with that.
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Posted by P-Angel
MelindaKane ... you're an idiot, which is something you don't even know .. you obviously think being a doormat is normal.



And again
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To clarify, I came to the Virgo board because I figured some Virgos here would be able to discern for me which traits he's exhibiting may be attributed to innate-personality qualities, which are just him being a man, which are based on him being a jerk. For instance, something I've gathered here is that Virgos can "withdraw" when they have to think things through. My sister (Virgo) also does this all the time. Then it was directly cosigned by JazSexyAzz. However, Tiki33 sides with more my subjective view that "withdrawl" is being an arrogant irresponsible ass. You seem to agree with this as well.
What I've decided from the feedback here in regard to this one issue (withdrawl) that regardless of if it's personal or not, we have kids and so therefore he can't do that IF he wants to be involved. Issue 1, resolved.
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Let's reframe this for argument sake. What if I'm totally WRONG. What if... his past relationships/kids are just that- PAST, like mine are. And he slept with his ex once, he was drunk and it was a mistake he deeply regrets as by what JazSexyAzz says, didn't register as cheating OR for whatever reason, screwed up HUGE... and was actually SORRY, tried (and failed) to lie and cover his ass. Let's consider, maybe the flirting with new girls was him just giving friendly gestures (my ex: Libra, did that all the time, dumped him too-- no time for that.) Let's consider, maybe he did have the novelties because of a fetish he was shy to expose, and didn't (as I assumed) use them with someone else. Perhaps I have been- since his "mistake with his ex" untrusting totally and super-suspicious to the point that everything that looks even slightly like cute, is a total SIGNAL and OMEN to his trifling ways.... perhaps I'm just JADED.

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I actually lean MORE towards your point of view than anything- believe it or not. The exception being, I would like to hear other points of view. If that makes me LOW esteem to ENTERTAIN that some of my own presumptions are imaginary, then so be it.
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P-Angel, nice to know you are also an OPPORTUNIST. smh
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@
JLwhittaker
Thank you for your input.
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@
25thDecan
Thank you for your opinion. I read your profile Q&A by the way. I LOL'd @ "Who's your friend: rabbits or corn?" I appreciate the feedback.
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Nah P Angel is telling you the truth and you are just out right rejecting her and everyone whose told you the same thing over and over again.
Something is wrong with you if you stay with this kind of man. I'm not sure why your standards are so damn low but you definitely need a swift kick in the ass to get you back on track. This man is horrible and no amount of PIMP SWEET TALK and good sex with a good dose of he's heaven when he's not being a jerk is enough.
He's fucked you up in the head and you can say a trillion times I don't have low self esteem, I have respect for myself but the reality is you don't, you don't have either and until you get real honest with yourself about yourself you'll continue on cut off your nose to spite your face.
You refuse to acknowledge consistently that it's not working and it's time for you to drop the zero and take care of yourself so you can raise emotionally healthy confident secure children that know how to love a partner, have a healthy relationship when they become adults, right now they are just learning how to receive and give neglect through you, no reason your children should be watching mama get dragged down and mistreated by a man.
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"Nah P Angel is telling you the truth and you are just out right rejecting her and everyone whose told you the same thing over and over again."
She said I am an idiot and I think being a doormat is normal.
I am far from an idiot nor do I think being a doormat is normal.
Yes, I reject that. Although I hadn't rejected what "everyone" says.
She may know what she is reading here but not enough about me OVERALL to judge me as an idiot. :/
Nor does she have enough background to say I'm a doormat or that I think it's normal.
Illogical fallacies present: affirmation of the antecedent, dicto simpliciter, ad hominem, etc.
I offer no apologies for not letting her bash me.
And yes, I'm defensive in this regard- because I came here seeking insight on him and the situation; and instead my character is presumed and attacked.
I'm totally willing to ACCEPT that my decisions left opportunity for his decisions. Fine.
HOWEVER, his decisions are HIS. I will not assume responsibility for his choices.
Tiki33, you made a conditional opinion of me including an IF->Then, which I accept as useful input. Thank you.
But, I will not sit here and accept someone saying... "OMG you're a cunt and think lying is a positive quality!"
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You sure come across like an doormat/idiot on DXP. You don't prioritize the neglect, you minimize every dysfunctional thing he does then want to know why he hasn't come home which only makes you appear to be lacking in self worth and I'm not sure why you can't see any of this.
Listen, you have to take responsibility for your own ACTIONS & BEHAVIOR and right now everything you've done says I'm a doormat and an emotional idiot over this man. You first have to admit your failures, your inability to look at reality in a truthful way b/c as long as you are avoiding the truth and reality of not only your own actions that contribute to the neglect then nothing is going to change.
Something has to change and coddling him and pretending to be nice and using the kids to stay next to him won't change a thing because you are CONTRIBUTING & ENABLING the problem.
You want change, you won't insight about him then YOU CHANGE--You get INSIGHTFUL about yourself first before you can understand him and change things.
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The YOU standing up for yourself is what's needed consistently and that's the YOU that you need to help you through the tough issues with your relationship. You've lost yourself in your relationship, your whole identity seems wrapped up into him and that makes you appear like a doormat and make idiotic choices just to keep him, if you have to keep him then you don't have him, he's not yours so you're kicking a dead horse.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result and that's what you're doing. You're pushing into your 40's and that's not a good look, being a 40 something year old woman in love with a man/boy, don't wast your life like that.
It's just more than him and his failures and shortcomings, you have quite a few yourself so work on that first before trying to get him back.
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